I don't even have much of a problem with the space magic bullshit. I think most of the physics checks out and a civ based on the moon would have easier access to space (though fuck if I know what they use for propellant to get up there.)
My problem was entirely the human factor at the end of part one.
Cannibal lady is fine, she's fine. We can definitely trust she won't do anything like hurt any of the remaining 7 people at all. FUTURE: Wow, turns out leaving Canabal lady alive and a perpetual underclass while letting her indoctrinate all her children about how evil everybody else is didn't work out well. Who would have fucking thunk it?
The stupidest possible outcome from that set up.
And apparently
In the confines of a slowly expanding space ring, seven distinct races kept separate lines going for hundreds of years each with their own standard personalities like each woman had created a race for LotR.
Even accepting that they stuck with cloning for however many decades, eventually people are gonna fuck, and I would sooner believe in space dwarves and space elves than I would in each race staying mostly separate over the centuries.
I think that part was largely informed by his intent to turn the whole thing into an mmo eventually.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I don't even have much of a problem with the space magic bullshit. I think most of the physics checks out and a civ based on the moon would have easier access to space (though fuck if I know what they use for propellant to get up there.)
My problem was entirely the human factor at the end of part one.
Cannibal lady is fine, she's fine. We can definitely trust she won't do anything like hurt any of the remaining 7 people at all. FUTURE: Wow, turns out leaving Canabal lady alive and a perpetual underclass while letting her indoctrinate all her children about how evil everybody else is didn't work out well. Who would have fucking thunk it?
The stupidest possible outcome from that set up.
And apparently
In the confines of a slowly expanding space ring, seven distinct races kept separate lines going for hundreds of years each with their own standard personalities like each woman had created a race for LotR.
Even accepting that they stuck with cloning for however many decades, eventually people are gonna fuck, and I would sooner believe in space dwarves and space elves than I would in each race staying mostly separate over the centuries.
I think that part was largely informed by his intent to turn the whole thing into an mmo eventually.
I used to be the type of reader who would only read one book and not start another until it was finished. Now I read in the same way I handle my Steam library - juggling 20 unfinished titles - and it is quite frustrating! I have several book series that I've yet to tie up because I'm so all over the place. Though, a lot of them wore out on me at some point and caused me to stall, and wasn't simply me getting distracted.
- The Demon Cycle. I went from loving it to feeling like it was being drawn out two books too many. I've been reading the final book since it was released and I have STRUGGLED. I think I'm only 38% into it. Reading it off and on, mind. I'm not THAT slow of a reader =p.
- The Lightbringer Series. The first two books had me saying, "this is the most amazing new fantasy series of all time" and some of those twists he pulled...wow! But I found book 3 to be sort of a letdown and book 4 I've yet to finish (if I have to read (what feels like) the PSA for that unusual vagina disorder one more time, I'll lose my mind), though I know the final book is out now.
- Book of the Ancestor. For as much as I LOVED Lawrence's previous two trilogies, I have been struggling through the first book of this one for a while now. It's yet to really click with me. I am, perhaps oddly, more interested in the "present day" portion of the book that you see a brief bit about at the start and, thus far, around midway through the book. I have that same issue with The Kingkiller Chronicles. I LOATHE the actual story - but love the gorgeous prose - and really only want to know what happens in the "present day" parts at the inn with Bast. I don't loathe the main story in Red Sister, I just have not been enthralled.
- Malazan: Book of the Fallen. I'm trying to work my way through this one again. When I first heard about Gardens of the Moon, most of the commentary was how hard it was to get into and that it was a mess, but I freakin' loved it, and that love continued with each book I read. I am, still, continually impressed with how Erikson can make so many great characters and I never feel like he's talking out of his ass, despite some of the long and detailed diatribes that characters get into on such a large variety of topics. But I got to Reaper's Gale YEARS ago and it broke me. I couldn't tell you why. I never managed to get through it and at this point I barely remember the series, so I've been audiobooking (which is no quick task) each book to refresh my memory. I am back up to Midnight Tides and I hope to actually put the series to bed when I catch back up to where I was.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Interesting, I just recently heard about the Lightbringer series and also Lawrences books, and I was considering adding those to my ever growing list of books to read.
Also, I feel like the Malazan series doesn't really have mild reactions from people. Either you love it or you hate it. I've been enthralled by the series since highschool. I actually got detention for reading it in Math class at one point.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I enjoyed Malazan at first but it got too confusing for me when I was waiting for new books that invariably took place somewhere else with new characters.
Lightbringer is an interesting series. It has a lot of ideas and twists that I haven't seen elsewhere in fantasy but then it's also got some really tiresome, heavy-handed stuff. There are several storylines and sections of the series where I just really didn't give a shit. But it's also a doorstop fantasy series that's actually finished now and it had, I thought, a fairly satisfying ending (with a few caveats). I'd recommend it to anybody looking for a ream of paper worth of fantasy to read.
Lightbringer final novel spoilers (just kind of thematic ones, not specific events)
The turn toward what felt like thinly-veiled pro-Abrahamic-tradition religiosity wasn't totally unexpected but was still a bit tiresome. And at several points in the final 1/3rd or so of the last novel I had to remind myself this wasn't an entry in Sanderson's multiverse. I don't know if Weeks is planning to build up a similar mythos to Sanderson's Cosmere but it certainly seemed like that's what he was hinting at. That could be interesting but if they're all going to have the same "Christianity with the numbers filed off" feel across all the worlds I'm not sure how much of it I'd want.
Brody - Years ago, I got in trouble at work for reading Malazan when it was slow because I simply COULD NOT WAIT until I got home to find out what happened in the next scene.
I would still highly recommend Lawrence's earlier work. His Broken Empire series became one of my favorites. It's an unusual book for me to enjoy, too, because the protagonist is a pretty terrible person. I tend to struggle with POV characters like that, such as with Thomas Covenant, but I found myself admiring the character. A horrible individual, without doubt, but I think I just grew to appreciate how he never let anything stop him from trying to achieve his goals.
That said, none of my close friends I've recommended read them have enjoyed them. One of them claims he hates it because a plot point in book one was "a huge deus-ex machina," which I contest is completely not the case. Take that as you will!
Tofystedeth - Odd as this may sound, I am totally sold on that series based upon the subtitles. I'd never heard of them before but I'm absolutely going to grab The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet.
The copy of Record of a Spaceborn Few I got my mom for Christmas is now being passed around my parents church.
Mission Accomplished.
I love that one.
Every other author is writing about the universe ending if the main character doesn't get the macguffin and Chambers is just "Here's some humans living on a space station. It's neat. The end."
Quid - that never really changes with Malazan (as far as I've read), though you of course revisit characters.
There's also the one book where you meet a character, and then the next book he is in you are confused by seeing him in a specific setting... and then eventually realize the book takes place BEFORE the events of the book where you first met him!
My dad was not as much a fan as he generally prefers more plot driven stuff. But my mom loved it. The now-retired librarian who was one of the people at the church who kept me supplied with Sci-fi and fantasy as a kid was on the list after my parents but I haven't heard anything on that from her yet. The most recent reader was an electrical engineer who was my other main book source. He said the book made him get very attached to the characters and he really liked it.
I suspected the story would find resonance in a Mennonite community, as it is in large part about how to maintain the traditions that define your small, isolated community without shutting out people who want to join but don't have centuries of history.
I don't even have much of a problem with the space magic bullshit. I think most of the physics checks out and a civ based on the moon would have easier access to space (though fuck if I know what they use for propellant to get up there.)
My problem was entirely the human factor at the end of part one.
Cannibal lady is fine, she's fine. We can definitely trust she won't do anything like hurt any of the remaining 7 people at all. FUTURE: Wow, turns out leaving Canabal lady alive and a perpetual underclass while letting her indoctrinate all her children about how evil everybody else is didn't work out well. Who would have fucking thunk it?
The stupidest possible outcome from that set up.
And apparently
In the confines of a slowly expanding space ring, seven distinct races kept separate lines going for hundreds of years each with their own standard personalities like each woman had created a race for LotR.
Even accepting that they stuck with cloning for however many decades, eventually people are gonna fuck, and I would sooner believe in space dwarves and space elves than I would in each race staying mostly separate over the centuries.
I think that part was largely informed by his intent to turn the whole thing into an mmo eventually.
Yeah. They were up there for like 5,000 years. That’s what, 250 or so generations? Historically in even the most oppressively segregated societies they estimate at least 1-3% of children per generation were mixed race/caste simply due to things like rape, prostitution, undetected affairs, etc. Even if you make hugely optimistic assumptions you aren’t going to get distinct races over that amount of time.
Reaper's Gale seems a reasonable place to break from Malazan. I lasted till Toll the Hounds but that was very much a "maybe he can pull out of this circling toward the drain" and instead it was the worst one by far. It didn't help that I generally found Midnight Tides to be my favourite and Reaper's Gale was a terrible followup and indicative imo of the kind of meandering randomness that was becoming more obvious as the series went on. And then Toll the Hounds was everything bad about the series turned up to 11. Mostly in terms of a whole lot of stories of people rambling while not really going anywhere. And retcons up the ass.
I barely have time to read anything these days but maybe one day I'll finish it off just to see where it goes.
My dad was not as much a fan as he generally prefers more plot driven stuff. But my mom loved it. The now-retired librarian who was one of the people at the church who kept me supplied with Sci-fi and fantasy as a kid was on the list after my parents but I haven't heard anything on that from her yet. The most recent reader was an electrical engineer who was my other main book source. He said the book made him get very attached to the characters and he really liked it.
I suspected the story would find resonance in a Mennonite community, as it is in large part about how to maintain the traditions that define your small, isolated community without shutting out people who want to join but don't have centuries of history.
When I read it it felt insanely jewish to me, partially for the same reason + humans as a diaspora people in that universe.
I just finished The Man In The High Castle. It’s a very, very well-crafted novel. It’s simultaneously personal and plotful and fantastical (although not in the sense of unrealistic*—but it does explore its unreal setting). It takes place in an alternate 1962 where Germany and Japan lost the world and have split up the US. I thought it would be about nazis, because of the poster for the Netflix show, but actually it takes place entirely in Japan-controlled west coast territory. There would be a risk in this sort of book to make it a action movie or perhaps a tour of the setting, but instead it closely follows a cast of 5 intersecting perspective characters, not all of whom one particularly likes, but all very much people, in a plot that involves the corner of a spy thriller and a window on a human drama and explores all sort of power dynamics and personal motivations and it’s just...really compelling. I did not want to stop reading, although I only just set up a reading nook in my house so this took me longer than it should have. There’s a thread in it about art and authenticity that I like; and also there is a single action scene followed by at least ten pages or more of the man feeling remorse (some of this content gets the closest to the pkd acid trip I was expecting throughout, but which didn’t happen). And at the very end before the final scene, the female character spends half a page figuring out how to deal with the logistics of a dress requiring a strapless bra that she left in the hotel, and that felt surprising, too, and made me happy, and maybe gives a sense of how close the book takes you to its characters.
I absolutely recommend it.
*except for some blurring of lines at the very end, with the I Ching. We know about the I Ching from Dr. Mary Malone, of course.
Beyond Lands of Never was better than Jakubowski's first collection, and certainly had more good stories than bad. Also one excerpt from a novel (that I believe was never published) almost entirely about a giant's dong.
A Month in Siena was interesting but also meandering and felt more like a diary than something for other people to read.
I've also realised I'm now 2 William Gibson books behind. The last one I read was Zero History, which was not particularly good, at least by his standards. The Blue Ant trilogy didn't really grab me the way his other stuff did, Pattern Recognition aside.
I have yet to read a William Gibson and I really need to remedy that.
Also, I am trying to throw in some classics lately. Ever since I read The Monk and found it to be one of the most incredible books I'd ever read, I've been wanting to delve more into classics I missed growing up.
I grabbed Peter Pan and The Picture of Dorian Gray to start with. I am finding the former tough to get into thus far because of the writing. I imagine this is how people felt trying to read Lord of the Rings for the first time as an adult instead of growing up reading it.
I like Adam Roberts a lot, and greatly enjoyed his merciless disembowelling of The Wheel of Time books on his now sadly vanished blog. But he's started reviewing again on after a long hiatus and he's still very entertaining. He doesn't just give books a shoeing, but, as is often the case, his bad reviews are more enjoyable than his good ones.
They don't register bad, clichéd and flavourless prose as a problem. On the contrary, they prize it, since it offers no impediment to them getting at the stuff that really matters, the action, the characters and their sophomoric interactions, characterisation in which All The Feels and cod-intensities of tension and adventure-excitement combine with a none-too-healthy psychopathology of casualised violence.
I think @Evil Multifarious likes Roberts and would get no little joy from an expert dismantling of bad books (as well as appreciative reviews of good ones, of course).
I read it as being artificial/exaggerated intensities of feelings and atmosphere, the kind of hyper-sensitivity that teenagers exist in. Will I kiss Darren or Maud at the school dance? NOTHING HAS EVER MATTERED THIS MUCH.
I've also realised I'm now 2 William Gibson books behind. The last one I read was Zero History, which was not particularly good, at least by his standards. The Blue Ant trilogy didn't really grab me the way his other stuff did, Pattern Recognition aside.
The Peripheral is very cool and different. A weird, unique twist on time travel. I'm about to dive into Agency as soon as it arrives in the mail.
I've also realised I'm now 2 William Gibson books behind. The last one I read was Zero History, which was not particularly good, at least by his standards. The Blue Ant trilogy didn't really grab me the way his other stuff did, Pattern Recognition aside.
They were much much better on reread; not sure why. Maybe because I care more about fashion now? The Peripheral is entirely different and very intriguing; I think you’d especially enjoy the British guy in it.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Man, I wish my church growing up had been more like yours. My church was basically, "if you read fantasy books you're going to hell." =p
Mine would have nixed science fiction because Earth is special and unique and suggesting life exists (and evolved!) elsewhere is heresy.
My parents never discouraged my reading science fictions, but they definitely often emphasized that it was fiction and that the Bible clearly indicated that there was not intelligent life on other planets at all nope. Often.
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
My parents were fine with it.
Kind of hard to argue against scifi and fantasy when they taught me to read with CS Lewis. The Narnia series and his scifi trilogy were some of the first novels i ever read
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I've also realised I'm now 2 William Gibson books behind. The last one I read was Zero History, which was not particularly good, at least by his standards. The Blue Ant trilogy didn't really grab me the way his other stuff did, Pattern Recognition aside.
They were much much better on reread; not sure why. Maybe because I care more about fashion now? The Peripheral is entirely different and very intriguing; I think you’d especially enjoy the British guy in it.
Peripheral is really quite good. Interesting ideas and setting. Some nifty set pieces. Sort of a couple of parallel interesting stories going on, and some neat world building.
Agency I didn't find to be particularly engaging. The world building was more or less already done. It introduces one kinda novel idea over the course of the story, but there's not too much pay off. Not much in the way tension. It could lay some decent groundwork for a third book, but I honestly don't see it.
Kind of hard to argue against scifi and fantasy when they taught me to read with CS Lewis. The Narnia series and his scifi trilogy were some of the first novels i ever read
There’s certainly no “here’s how we got here” introduction. The location, time-frame and many things about the book are deduced rather than explained. Read carefully.
There’s certainly no “here’s how we got here” introduction. The location, time-frame and many things about the book are deduced rather than explained. Read carefully.
Mkay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a piece or something.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure The Books of the New Sun are for me. Most of my way through Shadow, and it just isn't all that interesting to me. I'll finish it, but it just doesn't seem interested in actually discussing the things that I want to read about. I do however find this an interesting parallel to what Master Ultan said about only reading the books he liked.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I'm not sure The Books of the New Sun are for me. Most of my way through Shadow, and it just isn't all that interesting to me. I'll finish it, but it just doesn't seem interested in actually discussing the things that I want to read about. I do however find this an interesting parallel to what Master Ultan said about only reading the books he liked.
All I'm going to really say without really coloring how you take in the rest of the books is that I felt the same way as the bolded, thought about a few things some more, and then thinking about that ended up making me even more interested in the text.
This is a very hard series to talk about, I look forward to when you finish it. Fuck, I should probably reread it again.
Currently reading Nick Robins' excellent The Company that Changed the World and I highly recommend it. Fascinating, very readable, hugely insightful and really does give you a perspective into how the East India Company is the genesis of the modern Corporate entity.
Definitely worth picking up.
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Grudgeblessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered Userregular
Halfway through Revenger, and I like it a lot. Never made it through his Poseidon's Children series - I think I abandoned the second one after a hundred pages or so, but I liked the Revelation Space and the freestanding books in that universe, so I thought I'd give this new series a shot. Happy I did - space pirates and mysterious, ancient aliens, seems like a recipe for success to me!
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The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
So dumb.
- The Demon Cycle. I went from loving it to feeling like it was being drawn out two books too many. I've been reading the final book since it was released and I have STRUGGLED. I think I'm only 38% into it. Reading it off and on, mind. I'm not THAT slow of a reader =p.
- The Lightbringer Series. The first two books had me saying, "this is the most amazing new fantasy series of all time" and some of those twists he pulled...wow! But I found book 3 to be sort of a letdown and book 4 I've yet to finish (if I have to read (what feels like) the PSA for that unusual vagina disorder one more time, I'll lose my mind), though I know the final book is out now.
- Book of the Ancestor. For as much as I LOVED Lawrence's previous two trilogies, I have been struggling through the first book of this one for a while now. It's yet to really click with me. I am, perhaps oddly, more interested in the "present day" portion of the book that you see a brief bit about at the start and, thus far, around midway through the book. I have that same issue with The Kingkiller Chronicles. I LOATHE the actual story - but love the gorgeous prose - and really only want to know what happens in the "present day" parts at the inn with Bast. I don't loathe the main story in Red Sister, I just have not been enthralled.
- Malazan: Book of the Fallen. I'm trying to work my way through this one again. When I first heard about Gardens of the Moon, most of the commentary was how hard it was to get into and that it was a mess, but I freakin' loved it, and that love continued with each book I read. I am, still, continually impressed with how Erikson can make so many great characters and I never feel like he's talking out of his ass, despite some of the long and detailed diatribes that characters get into on such a large variety of topics. But I got to Reaper's Gale YEARS ago and it broke me. I couldn't tell you why. I never managed to get through it and at this point I barely remember the series, so I've been audiobooking (which is no quick task) each book to refresh my memory. I am back up to Midnight Tides and I hope to actually put the series to bed when I catch back up to where I was.
Also, I feel like the Malazan series doesn't really have mild reactions from people. Either you love it or you hate it. I've been enthralled by the series since highschool. I actually got detention for reading it in Math class at one point.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Lightbringer final novel spoilers (just kind of thematic ones, not specific events)
Mission Accomplished.
I would still highly recommend Lawrence's earlier work. His Broken Empire series became one of my favorites. It's an unusual book for me to enjoy, too, because the protagonist is a pretty terrible person. I tend to struggle with POV characters like that, such as with Thomas Covenant, but I found myself admiring the character. A horrible individual, without doubt, but I think I just grew to appreciate how he never let anything stop him from trying to achieve his goals.
That said, none of my close friends I've recommended read them have enjoyed them. One of them claims he hates it because a plot point in book one was "a huge deus-ex machina," which I contest is completely not the case. Take that as you will!
Tofystedeth - Odd as this may sound, I am totally sold on that series based upon the subtitles. I'd never heard of them before but I'm absolutely going to grab The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet.
I love that one.
Every other author is writing about the universe ending if the main character doesn't get the macguffin and Chambers is just "Here's some humans living on a space station. It's neat. The end."
There's also the one book where you meet a character, and then the next book he is in you are confused by seeing him in a specific setting... and then eventually realize the book takes place BEFORE the events of the book where you first met him!
I suspected the story would find resonance in a Mennonite community, as it is in large part about how to maintain the traditions that define your small, isolated community without shutting out people who want to join but don't have centuries of history.
I barely have time to read anything these days but maybe one day I'll finish it off just to see where it goes.
When I read it it felt insanely jewish to me, partially for the same reason + humans as a diaspora people in that universe.
I absolutely recommend it.
*except for some blurring of lines at the very end, with the I Ching. We know about the I Ching from Dr. Mary Malone, of course.
A Month in Siena was interesting but also meandering and felt more like a diary than something for other people to read.
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Also, I am trying to throw in some classics lately. Ever since I read The Monk and found it to be one of the most incredible books I'd ever read, I've been wanting to delve more into classics I missed growing up.
I grabbed Peter Pan and The Picture of Dorian Gray to start with. I am finding the former tough to get into thus far because of the writing. I imagine this is how people felt trying to read Lord of the Rings for the first time as an adult instead of growing up reading it.
Here he is hoofing a tedious Stephen Donaldson book into row z.
Here he is nailing the failings of an entire genre.
I think @Evil Multifarious likes Roberts and would get no little joy from an expert dismantling of bad books (as well as appreciative reviews of good ones, of course).
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Based on the context, something to do with cod pieces and or what they might cover?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I could be wrong.
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The Peripheral is very cool and different. A weird, unique twist on time travel. I'm about to dive into Agency as soon as it arrives in the mail.
They were much much better on reread; not sure why. Maybe because I care more about fashion now? The Peripheral is entirely different and very intriguing; I think you’d especially enjoy the British guy in it.
Mine would have nixed science fiction because Earth is special and unique and suggesting life exists (and evolved!) elsewhere is heresy.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
My parents never discouraged my reading science fictions, but they definitely often emphasized that it was fiction and that the Bible clearly indicated that there was not intelligent life on other planets at all nope. Often.
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Kind of hard to argue against scifi and fantasy when they taught me to read with CS Lewis. The Narnia series and his scifi trilogy were some of the first novels i ever read
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
For some reason I have been repeatedly reading this as 'cod intensifies'. Which... *dolphin meme*
Peripheral is really quite good. Interesting ideas and setting. Some nifty set pieces. Sort of a couple of parallel interesting stories going on, and some neat world building.
Agency I didn't find to be particularly engaging. The world building was more or less already done. It introduces one kinda novel idea over the course of the story, but there's not too much pay off. Not much in the way tension. It could lay some decent groundwork for a third book, but I honestly don't see it.
Oh hey, me too!
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The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
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Yeah sorry. Posting late and sleep deprived is a recipe for disaster.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
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Mkay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a piece or something.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
All I'm going to really say without really coloring how you take in the rest of the books is that I felt the same way as the bolded, thought about a few things some more, and then thinking about that ended up making me even more interested in the text.
This is a very hard series to talk about, I look forward to when you finish it. Fuck, I should probably reread it again.
Definitely worth picking up.