Kids/Parenting: It’s fine, everything is fine.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    My oldest didn't start crawling until like 12 months. Didn't walk until maybe 18 months. It was nice to set her down somewhere and know she wasn't going anywhere lol.

    Came here to say this exact thing. There's something to be said for the age where, while completely helpless, they'll be right there when you get back.

    ElvenshaeCauldMichaelLCAimNobeardkimeJansonDisruptedCapitalist
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    My oldest didn't start crawling until like 12 months. Didn't walk until maybe 18 months. It was nice to set her down somewhere and know she wasn't going anywhere lol.

    I would have taken this in a heart beat, my son walked at nine months. I was like really dude, we haven't baby proofed for shit and now you're transforming to biped?

    :so_raven:
    ElvenshaekimeurahonkyJansonhonovere
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    We were doing just fine until I left a box of crayons just out of her reach on vacation, and when my in-laws asked if I shouldn't put them farther away, I stupidly replied "If she can reach them, she can play with them." She promptly rolled onto her stomach, climbed up on hands and knees, and crawled over to them.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    We were doing just fine until I left a box of crayons just out of her reach on vacation, and when my in-laws asked if I shouldn't put them farther away, I stupidly replied "If she can reach them, she can play with them." She promptly rolled onto her stomach, climbed up on hands and knees, and crawled over to them.

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    How much hitting and throwing things is normal at 4-5? We've been having a lot of trouble with Jaina lately just... being an asshole. A few minutes ago she was rough with the kitten which, yeah, kids do that sometimes. But we asked her to stop and she started to throw things and, when I told her to go sit on the step, she launched both arms into me to try and push me.

    Weirdly she starts crying when she does this shit and says she doesn't mean to, that she's not trying to do it, that she can't stop herself...

    This is all normal, right? We're going through the exact same thing every other parent does? Maybe?

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    I don't think it's abnormal, exactly..

    Kids test boundaries. That's what they do. When you call them on it, they get shitty about it because they don't like being accountable.

    The important part in handling it is separating discipline from punishment. If she hits/throws/whatevers, you tell her that's not how we act, and everything stops until she's calm. But she doesn't get her way, and she doesn't get anything fun. She gets to calm down and regulate her feelings first.

    Then, give her time to explain in her words how she felt and why she acted that way, and then explain what you expect and why. Don't tell her she was wrong for feeling something, but that there were better choices she could have made for expressing it.

    lonelyahavaAimmrpakuDisruptedCapitalist
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I'm having a hard time with that, because it seems like our 2 year old doesn't quite get it when we try to explain "this is why you are going in time out". I assume there is some level of mental maturity they have to reach before it all clicks.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    lonelyahavamrpakuElvenshaeJanson
  • AimAim Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Some of it may be a need for attention, or doubts about being loved - you can try to hugh them and see if that calms them down, then try to have the rational discussion that what they are doing is not right.

    Aim on
    Cog
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time with that, because it seems like our 2 year old doesn't quite get it when we try to explain "this is why you are going in time out". I assume there is some level of mental maturity they have to reach before it all clicks.

    Two year olds are assholes who barely speak english and have the capacity for reasoning of a cabbage. Your main advantage over them is your ability to be persistent for longer than they've been alive. Just keep plugging away.

    lonelyahavaElvenshaeKayne Red RobeDisruptedCapitalist
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Cog wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time with that, because it seems like our 2 year old doesn't quite get it when we try to explain "this is why you are going in time out". I assume there is some level of mental maturity they have to reach before it all clicks.

    Two year olds are assholes who barely speak english and have the capacity for reasoning of a cabbage. Your main advantage over them is your ability to be persistent for longer than they've been alive. Just keep plugging away.

    I tried time out with my two year old a few times, but it didn't seem to work. What's worked much better is telling him that I don't want x and if he keeps doing x I'm going to go to the other room. For example, if he keeps hitting me I'm going to stop playing with him. Now he'll usually stop when I first ask and I don't even have to walk away.

    edit: removed old autosaved quote

    Cauld on
    CogAim
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time with that, because it seems like our 2 year old doesn't quite get it when we try to explain "this is why you are going in time out". I assume there is some level of mental maturity they have to reach before it all clicks.

    Two year olds are assholes who barely speak english and have the capacity for reasoning of a cabbage. Your main advantage over them is your ability to be persistent for longer than they've been alive. Just keep plugging away.

    I tried time out with my two year old a few times, but it didn't seem to work. What's worked much better is telling him that I don't want x and if he keeps doing x I'm going to go to the other room. For example, if he keeps hitting me I'm going to stop playing with him. Now he'll usually stop when I first ask and I don't even have to walk away.

    edit: removed old autosaved quote

    Yeah, our house isn't really big enough for that to work.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    It doesn't have to be "the other room" it can just be "I'm going to do something else" or even "we're going to put this toy/game away and sit on the couch and stare at each other". Whatever the activity is they want to do will be over. Fun is done until we're all calm. Then you tell me what you were thinking/feeling, we talk about what the right choice would have been, (hopefully there's an apology), and fun can come back in the room.

    JansonElvenshae
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time with that, because it seems like our 2 year old doesn't quite get it when we try to explain "this is why you are going in time out". I assume there is some level of mental maturity they have to reach before it all clicks.

    Two year olds are assholes who barely speak english and have the capacity for reasoning of a cabbage. Your main advantage over them is your ability to be persistent for longer than they've been alive. Just keep plugging away.

    I tried time out with my two year old a few times, but it didn't seem to work. What's worked much better is telling him that I don't want x and if he keeps doing x I'm going to go to the other room. For example, if he keeps hitting me I'm going to stop playing with him. Now he'll usually stop when I first ask and I don't even have to walk away.

    edit: removed old autosaved quote

    Yeah, our house isn't really big enough for that to work.

    I'm in a apartment. I just go pee in the bathroom for a minute.

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    At 2 years we did ‘time-ins’. That involves removing them from the situation and instead sitting them on your lap, giving hugs & talking to them. It essentially works the way Cog is describing!

    Coglonelyahavakime
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Janson wrote: »
    At 2 years we did ‘time-ins’. That involves removing them from the situation and instead sitting them on your lap, giving hugs & talking to them. It essentially works the way Cog is describing!

    I read a really good book called No Drama Discipline that works very heavily along these lines. You don't enact discipline while you're angry or they're upset because then you're linking discipline and punishment. Everyone needs to cool down. They will be less likely to associate accepting boundaries with being punished, and you're less likely to overreact and mete out something that's too harsh for the situation just because you're frustrated.

    You let them tell you what they were thinking and feeling for two reasons. First, they feel validated that you care about their opinion and viewpoint, and that it's ok to express their emotions rather than just act out on them. Second, helping them calm down and then talking about how they felt helps them self-regulate in the future.

    Then they're in a better mindset to accept the discipline as an appropriate boundary instead of a punitive reactionary punishment.

    Cog on
    JansonAim
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Part of the issue is recently, we've been having an issue where she is told she can't play with something, and she goes into full meltdown, and so we'd like to use timeout to let her know that losing her shit over not being able to pull the strings out of my sweater isn't an acceptable response, but if we wait for her to calm down, she won't even remember why she is being put in time out.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    There's not a ton you can do but wait for her to age out of it a little bit.

    The best suggestion I think that I could make is, make sure you're not just taking something away from her and saying "NO!" as your opening salvo. Start by having her stop and pay attention to you first. Like "Hey, hey, hey! Give me your hands for a minute! Here, hold my hands. This is important. Look me in the eyes. Do you know what you were just doing? Pulling on those strings? If you keep doing that, I won't be able to wear this sweater eeeeever again. Can we find something else to play with instead?"

    Get her redirected non-confrontationally first, and then talk about the behavior. I know that can be hard to do calmly when she's actively wrecking something, but get her attention away from the thing without that being part of the discipline.

    It's a hard line to walk, for sure.

    Cog on
    So It GoesJansonAim
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    There's not a ton you can do but wait for her to age out of it a little bit.

    The best suggestion I think that I could make is, make sure you're not just taking something away from her and saying "NO!" as your opening salvo. Start by having her stop and pay attention to you first. Like "Hey, hey, hey! Give me your hands for a minute! Here, hold my hands. This is important. Look me in the eyes. Do you know what you were just doing? Pulling on those strings? If you keep doing that, I won't be able to wear this sweater eeeeever again. Can we find something else to play with instead?"

    Get her redirected non-confrontationally first, and then talk about the behavior. I know that can be hard to do calmly when she's actively wrecking something, but get her attention away from the thing without that being part of the discipline.

    It's a hard line to walk, for sure.

    We do this with my son, and its effective, but, fair warning that actually getting them to hold your hands and look at you calmly can be an emotional ordeal far more frustrating than the initial problem was. You may do better telling them, "You're behaviour isn't OK, right now you will stop it..." (and take away whatever they are being annoying with) ".... and in 5 minutes we are going to sit and talk about why what you did was wrong"

    And then you take the 5 minutes to calm down yourself. Kids can be mind bogglingly annoying sometimes, and it will do you no good to go into your 'calm discussion of what you did wrong and what the rules say' if you are angry, because there is a 95% chance that the calm discussion will begin with 10 minutes of weeping and whining.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    BrodyCogElvenshae
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Also, if I can recommend one tiny thing: don't balk from the word "annoying". Some parents I've met seem to think that calling what a kid does "annoying" can be damaging, but I don't agree.

    My little one knows enough that when we say "sweetie, that's annoying", it doesn't mean we think she's annoying, just that the activity she's doing is annoying.

    Example:

    Mini-dead starts banging her toys on the table very loudly.

    Me: "Sweetie, that's very loud and annoying, please stop that"
    Her: "Sorry daddy" (stops for 2 seconds... then starts again)
    Me: "Sweetie, what did I just say?"
    Her: "Oh yeah" (stops, and usually moves on)

    Obviously, this doesn't happen 100% of the time, but I find it helpful to try and be specific about what it is that's upsetting me, instead of being overly vague and opening the possibility that the criticism you're leveling will be interpreted as being against the child, the person, rather than the activity itself.

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
    lonelyahava
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Cog wrote: »
    Janson wrote: »
    At 2 years we did ‘time-ins’. That involves removing them from the situation and instead sitting them on your lap, giving hugs & talking to them. It essentially works the way Cog is describing!

    I read a really good book called No Drama Discipline that works very heavily along these lines. You don't enact discipline while you're angry or they're upset because then you're linking discipline and punishment. Everyone needs to cool down. They will be less likely to associate accepting boundaries with being punished, and you're less likely to overreact and mete out something that's too harsh for the situation just because you're frustrated.

    You let them tell you what they were thinking and feeling for two reasons. First, they feel validated that you care about their opinion and viewpoint, and that it's ok to express their emotions rather than just act out on them. Second, helping them calm down and then talking about how they felt helps them self-regulate in the future.

    Then they're in a better mindset to accept the discipline as an appropriate boundary instead of a punitive reactionary punishment.

    These are the principles we try to follow too. I've had some struggles with reacting angrily to some of the stuff my kid does, but taking time to cool down is best. A two year old just isn't able to understand a time out. Even at 3.5 now, I don't think my son would get it, though his daycare does use time outs, we don't do it at home.

    Edit: The author of that book is Janet Lansbury, and her facebook and podcast are worth following.

    Sidebar: Angela Lansbury is her mother in-law

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
    Cog
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    There's not a ton you can do but wait for her to age out of it a little bit.

    The best suggestion I think that I could make is, make sure you're not just taking something away from her and saying "NO!" as your opening salvo. Start by having her stop and pay attention to you first. Like "Hey, hey, hey! Give me your hands for a minute! Here, hold my hands. This is important. Look me in the eyes. Do you know what you were just doing? Pulling on those strings? If you keep doing that, I won't be able to wear this sweater eeeeever again. Can we find something else to play with instead?"

    Get her redirected non-confrontationally first, and then talk about the behavior. I know that can be hard to do calmly when she's actively wrecking something, but get her attention away from the thing without that being part of the discipline.

    It's a hard line to walk, for sure.

    We do this with my son, and its effective, but, fair warning that actually getting them to hold your hands and look at you calmly can be an emotional ordeal far more frustrating than the initial problem was. You may do better telling them, "You're behaviour isn't OK, right now you will stop it..." (and take away whatever they are being annoying with) ".... and in 5 minutes we are going to sit and talk about why what you did was wrong"

    And then you take the 5 minutes to calm down yourself. Kids can be mind bogglingly annoying sometimes, and it will do you no good to go into your 'calm discussion of what you did wrong and what the rules say' if you are angry, because there is a 95% chance that the calm discussion will begin with 10 minutes of weeping and whining.

    We try to do something similar most times, although now when she wants to tell us something she will crawl up on our laps, grab our face with both hands, and say look at me three or four times until we look at her, and then babble semi-coherently.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    There's not a ton you can do but wait for her to age out of it a little bit.

    The best suggestion I think that I could make is, make sure you're not just taking something away from her and saying "NO!" as your opening salvo. Start by having her stop and pay attention to you first. Like "Hey, hey, hey! Give me your hands for a minute! Here, hold my hands. This is important. Look me in the eyes. Do you know what you were just doing? Pulling on those strings? If you keep doing that, I won't be able to wear this sweater eeeeever again. Can we find something else to play with instead?"

    Get her redirected non-confrontationally first, and then talk about the behavior. I know that can be hard to do calmly when she's actively wrecking something, but get her attention away from the thing without that being part of the discipline.

    It's a hard line to walk, for sure.

    We do this with my son, and its effective, but, fair warning that actually getting them to hold your hands and look at you calmly can be an emotional ordeal far more frustrating than the initial problem was. You may do better telling them, "You're behaviour isn't OK, right now you will stop it..." (and take away whatever they are being annoying with) ".... and in 5 minutes we are going to sit and talk about why what you did was wrong"

    And then you take the 5 minutes to calm down yourself. Kids can be mind bogglingly annoying sometimes, and it will do you no good to go into your 'calm discussion of what you did wrong and what the rules say' if you are angry, because there is a 95% chance that the calm discussion will begin with 10 minutes of weeping and whining.

    We try to do something similar most times, although now when she wants to tell us something she will crawl up on our laps, grab our face with both hands, and say look at me three or four times until we look at her, and then babble semi-coherently.

    Honestly, things could be a lot worse. :razz:

    As with every piece of parenting advice, the viability will always be situational. Sometimes ain't nobody got time for that shit, and you just have to grab the fork away from them before they stuff it in the wall socket. And we're all imperfect and sometimes we lose our cool and yell. Don't beat yourself up over it. Aim to do better next time.

    The less that you placate them to end the tantrum, the shorter the tantrums will last and the less often they will happen, as time goes by. You have more practice in being patient than they have practice in being alive. You can outlast them.

  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Also, if I can recommend one tiny thing: don't balk from the word "annoying". Some parents I've met seem to think that calling what a kid does "annoying" can be damaging, but I don't agree.

    My little one knows enough that when we say "sweetie, that's annoying", it doesn't mean we think she's annoying, just that the activity she's doing is annoying.

    There's a distinction between "That's annoying" and "You're annoying".

    Romantic UndeadJanson
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I guess more I'm just venting about having to balance between disciplining our child in a way she understands with her being young enough that she maybe doesn't quite get the nuance of it all.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    Janson
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Two year olds are assholes.

    If it makes you feel any better, three year olds are assholes too, but it feels more like they're mature enough to be doing it on purpose.



    .... Wait, what I meant was it won't make you feel any better.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    When Ellie was two was when I started using the steps for time out.

    Now that sounds a bit extreme but I think I've put her sitting on the step maybe four times before she's turned four.

    This has been for absolutely defiant willful assholishness, or when she did something completely dangerous.

    She got put on the bottom step for thirty seconds. If she tried to get down, she added another ten seconds. If she got down and started doing the action again, she got the second step for another thirty seconds.

    She's only made it to the third step for a minute once and that was after she turned three.

    Once her time was up, she got scooped up into a hug and we talked calmly and why we had to sit on the steps, that she wasn't in a lot of trouble any longer, and that I still loved her.

    Took maybe five minutes all up. But Ellie's been very verbal and comprehensive for a long time.

    As work everything, YMMV

    Romantic Undead
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    One of the other families in our building uses the common stair way for a time out place. I think they sit with him while he screams it out. Seems to work well, he's very well-behaved.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    We have her carry her elephant chain into the hallway, and she sits in it for ~2 minutes (as she is two years old), then we try and explain why she was in time out to her.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    The one thing I would personally lobby against is leaving your child alone in time-out. Make sure they can see you. Shunning them completely and leaving them alone can give them the idea that your love is conditional on their behavior. What they need to be losing out on is their desired activity only, not your presence and acknowledgement.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    The one thing I would personally lobby against is leaving your child alone in time-out. Make sure they can see you. Shunning them completely and leaving them alone can give them the idea that your love is conditional on their behavior. What they need to be losing out on is their desired activity only, not your presence and acknowledgement.

    Yeah, there's no door, just sort of a hole in the wall, and we set her just inside of it so she doesn't have a bunch of stuff to distract her from being in time out.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    I just wish I could get my 6.5 yr old daughter to calm down by herself. If she has a meltdown over something we have 2 options: let her cry it out for over an hour or I go in and calmly talk her out of her episode. I want her to be able to calm herself down.

  • MegafrostMegafrost Leader of the Decepticons Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I just wish I could get my 6.5 yr old daughter to calm down by herself. If she has a meltdown over something we have 2 options: let her cry it out for over an hour or I go in and calmly talk her out of her episode. I want her to be able to calm herself down.

    Same boat. My 6 almost 7-year old can't calm down on his own when he melts down. On the bright side his preferred activity for calming down is that I read to him.

    urahonky
  • ShadowBladeShadowBlade Registered User regular
    Thanks for the tips on lying y'all. Life got busy and I lost the thread. I'll try and post an update after we see how Xmas goes. Speaking of, I hope you all have an amazing holiday with your wee ones!

    This world needs a new philosophy. No more, "Could be worse..." I say SHOULD BE BETTER!
  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    My daughter has been having really bad ear infections since late November. We scheduled the ENT appointment as soon as possible which happened to be today. She'll be getting tubes next Friday but I feel so bad for the little girl. Apparently she has so much fluid in her ears that her eardrum isn't even moving anymore.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    a good opinion article from down here, talking about something that i'm currently struggling with.

    Talking to your kids about the Australian Bushfire

    Hope you all are doing well.

    urahonky
  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    My daughter has been having really bad ear infections since late November. We scheduled the ENT appointment as soon as possible which happened to be today. She'll be getting tubes next Friday but I feel so bad for the little girl. Apparently she has so much fluid in her ears that her eardrum isn't even moving anymore.

    Most of my friends whose kids had that procedure rave about the improvement in their child's mood afterward. Even the ones who didn't think their kids were unhappy comment on how the kids just seem more cheerful than usual. Let us know if things play out that way for you and your little one.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Baby now has a fever and she's already on antibiotics. Ugh this poor girl.

    ElvenshaeAimCarpyJaysonFour
  • Jebus314Jebus314 Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Baby now has a fever and she's already on antibiotics. Ugh this poor girl.

    That sounds terrible. We’ve had a few times where we felt like our girl has one. It doesn’t help that I feel like all of the baby thermometer options are not very accurate. But so far I think we have just been overly cautious. No hospital trips or anything. Knock on wood.

    "The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
    urahonky
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Roommate gave phone to her two year old daughter so she could play with the PBS app

    Tiny human got frustrated so the phone got taken away

    Cut to the apocalypse

    Capt HowdyJebus314ElvenshaeurahonkyMugsleyAimBrodyCarpySleepDisruptedCapitalistJaysonFour
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    My daughter threw a fit about aprons after waking up from her nap (not sure what exactly, we just go one for the kitchen because I keep ruining my clothes, she has a couple, she was whinging about me having one, so we brought hers out, I tried to put it on her and she cried even harder), pulled her up on my lap and tried to help calm her down, and instead she cried so hard she threw up.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
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