HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Trump lost, and his being POTUS was the only reason why the GOP suddenly made a physical border wall part of their plan. Keep the "king" happy. Now that he's not, there's no reason to back this stupid wall thing. The GOP might be dumb enough to want to for "legacy's" sake, for like the next year, but they'll eventually drop it. You can argue Democrats "had to" entertain the idea during the actual administration years, but it's fucking over. We may be changing government structure but Democrats have enough vote leverage in the House to say no to the wall. They don't have to give the GOP any gestures anymore, but they still are. To what end? What is the 5D Chess here where, even in the result of a strategic "win" things don't change for the better for Americans? "WE DID IT" - did WHAT?
Trump lost, and his being POTUS was the only reason why the GOP suddenly made a physical border wall part of their plan. Keep the "king" happy. Now that he's not, there's no reason to back this stupid wall thing. The GOP might be dumb enough to want to for "legacy's" sake, for like the next year, but they'll eventually drop it. You can argue Democrats "had to" entertain the idea during the actual administration years, but it's fucking over. We may be changing government structure but Democrats have enough vote leverage in the House to say no to the wall. They don't have to give the GOP any gestures anymore, but they still are. To what end? What is the 5D Chess here where, even in the result of a strategic "win" things don't change for the better for Americans? "WE DID IT" - did WHAT?
So, shut down for a year?
Honestly, I think that's the wrong decision. I think a relatively small amount of funding for the wall that isn't going to do anything and can be fixed is better than the damage a year-long shutdown in the middle of a pandemic would do. So, I don't agree with you and I guess I'm glad the Dems disagreed with you too, I think this woulda hurt more people.
Trump lost, and his being POTUS was the only reason why the GOP suddenly made a physical border wall part of their plan. Keep the "king" happy. Now that he's not, there's no reason to back this stupid wall thing. The GOP might be dumb enough to want to for "legacy's" sake, for like the next year, but they'll eventually drop it. You can argue Democrats "had to" entertain the idea during the actual administration years, but it's fucking over. We may be changing government structure but Democrats have enough vote leverage in the House to say no to the wall. They don't have to give the GOP any gestures anymore, but they still are. To what end? What is the 5D Chess here where, even in the result of a strategic "win" things don't change for the better for Americans? "WE DID IT" - did WHAT?
Trump has to sign it. The senate has to pass it. It doesn't matter how many votes they have in the house. The House already passed a bill. So "we have the votes in the House" is worth the piss in your toilet for actually getting anything accomplished before January 20.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Let me phrase it another way for you guys.
"We have to avoid a government shutdown!"
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
I wonder if I'll ever know what it's like to tell people who belong to marginalized groups, "you have to take the bigotry you get because that's just how our system works."
Look I get that you're the only righteous person in the thread, but let's try and move past how cool you are for a second.
Curious, do you think another shutdown would be the way forward? As in, shut down the government until there is no wall funding (which will be weeks if the Dems get the Senate, months? otherwise)? Do you think that would help more people?
I am skeptical, but dunno if you think otherwise.
How exactly would a government shutdown affect my situation? A situation that is already fucked?
Oh, do you mean things like the one-time $600 that wouldn't actually save me from this situation? Or anyone else for that matter with their own?
So because you are in a bad spot, you dont care if others are put in a bad spot?
You kinda dodged the part asking if a government shut down would help people (as in more than just you) by making it solely about yourself.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
Trump lost, and his being POTUS was the only reason why the GOP suddenly made a physical border wall part of their plan. Keep the "king" happy. Now that he's not, there's no reason to back this stupid wall thing. The GOP might be dumb enough to want to for "legacy's" sake, for like the next year, but they'll eventually drop it. You can argue Democrats "had to" entertain the idea during the actual administration years, but it's fucking over. We may be changing government structure but Democrats have enough vote leverage in the House to say no to the wall. They don't have to give the GOP any gestures anymore, but they still are. To what end? What is the 5D Chess here where, even in the result of a strategic "win" things don't change for the better for Americans? "WE DID IT" - did WHAT?
So, shut down for a year?
Honestly, I think that's the wrong decision. I think a relatively small amount of funding for the wall that isn't going to do anything and can be fixed is better than the damage a year-long shutdown in the middle of a pandemic would do. So, I don't agree with you and I guess I'm glad the Dems disagreed with you too, I think this woulda hurt more people.
The government has shown it is more than willing to pass stop-gap funding to avoid complete shutdown. We do that up until the next government gets sworn in.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
People don't get TANF money, Medicaid/care payments don't go out, government contracts aren't paid putting more people out of work. If the last four years have proven anything it's that the broken system can get even more broken and hurt people even more. So yes, you fund shit for another month and try to fix it in the next Congress. Which is what you're advocating for anyway if you want to shutdown the government for a month, but with more suffering.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+14
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
What are the LGBTQ+ situations that change if the government shuts down? Like what systemically at the federal level is currently helping you?
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
What are the LGBTQ+ situations that change if the government shuts down? Like what systemically at the federal level is currently helping you?
That's not what you asked. That comment was in response to "I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?"
don't move the goal posts just because you're rightfully angry at the government.
Everything going on right now has to do with the Senate election.
If the Democrats were seating 50+ Senators already this bullshit stimulus would be doa and we'd be tying the shutdown around Trump's neck one last time with plans to reopen the day after the inauguration.
But we're not, we're desperate for these two last seats and the next two years are a waking nightmare if we don't win these two seats in *checks notes* the heart of the confederacy.
Fuck.
RedTide on
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
+5
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You're goddamn fucking right I'm angry at the government.
But I'm also angry that every time I express that anger, I get told I'm not supposed to be because it will mean I'm fucking over other people.
"There are no solutions to anything ever! Everything you advocate for will harm someone else!"
If I don't yell about this, Mexicans continue to get kicked around. If I DO yell about this, I'm accused of not caring about the poor or LGBTQ+ people or anyone else.
Fuck my motherfucking life you guys. You fucking win. Are you fucking happy now? Yes daddy, please treat me like shit.
+15
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
No one is saying you can't express anger, they are saying your proposed solution isn't going to help the problem you are angry about in any way whatsoever.
No one is saying you can't express anger, they are saying your proposed solution isn't going to help the problem you are angry about in any way whatsoever.
Be angry! But by your own words when your anger hurts other people who are also in crappy positions, well, I'm not gonna consider that a good thing. If your anger is only channeled into ways that hurt people, you don't get much sympathy from me.
I'm not telling you what you are or aren't allowed to do, just my own thoughts.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
I mean, get the wall funding for a bill to pass, then biden can just go lol lets build an air wall and use the rest of the money for like roads or something.
Still totally fucked up though and should be brought up as a reason to dump the Georgia Republican senators. More interested in a useless vanity project then running the country and helping their constituents. Tie this to every single R senator I guess.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
Regarding the $1.375 billion in that budget for a wall, just have Biden redirect it back to "schools, childcare centers and other facilities for military children", after January 20th.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
Tox could answer that without using gays as a bashing shield and you damn well know it.
It’s a horrible compromise, and I’m honestly surprised the Democrats even got that much.
The GOP, as a party, seems intent on shooting the country and letting it die and so many true believers have ascended to their ranks that I don’t think the party even knows WHY they want to burn it all down. It’s for the glory of Trump right now, but once he’s gone it will be someone or something else.
You can’t negotiate with that, and the people to the left of the Democrats can’t really push the party further left because the only leverage is “or I won’t vote for you” which winds up helping the party that is actively harmful to the left’s stated goals (as opposed to the Democratic leadership which offers token support if any and resistance or condescension most of the time).
The GOP don’t care if the government functions, so shutdowns don’t have any power, they don’t seem to have any shame, and the minutiae of government is so boring to the average stressed out person that it takes too long to explain exactly how the Republicans are fucking everything and people just kind of glaze away because they have shit to do or else they won’t be able to eat.
I fully expect a debt ceiling default if a few more QAnonists get into the Senate or a few more Boomer GOP reps kick the bucket and create a leadership vacuum. I’m sure that Trump or his minions will be while-heartedly supporting every QAnon Racist they can find to primary the GOP leadership after McConnell & Co. officially acknowledge Biden as President next July.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
Well if Democrats get the Senate and pull the funding, then no he doesn't because there is no longer money that is allotted for such a thing. Also the money is just for building a wall, if he pulls the US out of all current cases involving seizing land for wall construction, then any funds that specify a specific stretch can't be legally spent.
These are things that can potentially happen because court cases take time and any new construction probably has to go through a bidding process that also takes time. Honestly, I'd love for Biden to through out some standards for a fence that ensure it's impossible for anyone to actually meet the criteria and somehow find a way to make it fucking obnoxious to get rid of those standards. That way the next racist asshole in the WH will have to spend time getting it reversed and slowing down the ability to get wall construction done.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
Tox could answer that without using gays as a bashing shield and you damn well know it.
Would you mind showing me where I bashed him with LGBTQ+ folks? Did I also bash him with arabic/islamic/etc folks? I mentioned them as well, as an example of a group that might be able to relate to his experience.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
I don't see why Biden has to spend a single cent of that money.
There are plenty of must-spend funding bills passed, with attached oversight, that Trump has proven are no more than figments of lawmakers' imaginations.
It’s a horrible compromise, and I’m honestly surprised the Democrats even got that much.
The GOP, as a party, seems intent on shooting the country and letting it die and so many true believers have ascended to their ranks that I don’t think the party even knows WHY they want to burn it all down. It’s for the glory of Trump right now, but once he’s gone it will be someone or something else.
You can’t negotiate with that, and the people to the left of the Democrats can’t really push the party further left because the only leverage is “or I won’t vote for you” which winds up helping the party that is actively harmful to the left’s stated goals (as opposed to the Democratic leadership which offers token support if any and resistance or condescension most of the time).
The GOP don’t care if the government functions, so shutdowns don’t have any power, they don’t seem to have any shame, and the minutiae of government is so boring to the average stressed out person that it takes too long to explain exactly how the Republicans are fucking everything and people just kind of glaze away because they have shit to do or else they won’t be able to eat.
I fully expect a debt ceiling default if a few more QAnonists get into the Senate or a few more Boomer GOP reps kick the bucket and create a leadership vacuum. I’m sure that Trump or his minions will be while-heartedly supporting every QAnon Racist they can find to primary the GOP leadership after McConnell & Co. officially acknowledge Biden as President next July.
If the evangelical community I grew up in is anything to go by, they honestly, truly believe they're protecting the country from something even worse. No, not God's wrath. They'd be fine with that.
These people hear "socialism" and picture a Randian hellscape. They think that if the government gives people money that they did not earn, the economy - the country's very beating heart - will sputter to a stop, and everything they have will be taken away from them and given to the "undeserving," who, of course, will squander it and be no better off than they were to begin with (or they wouldn't be poor in the first place).
That's why they're willing to shovel lives into the maw by the thousands. It's racism, xenophobia, and zero-sum thinking all bound up in fear.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
Tox could answer that without using gays as a bashing shield and you damn well know it.
Would you mind showing me where I bashed him with LGBTQ+ folks? Did I also bash him with arabic/islamic/etc folks? I mentioned them as well, as an example of a group that might be able to relate to his experience.
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
It wasn't even subtle. Using another demographic to tell one that is being shit on right now to sit down and shut up is a whole new level of gross.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
Tox could answer that without using gays as a bashing shield and you damn well know it.
Would you mind showing me where I bashed him with LGBTQ+ folks? Did I also bash him with arabic/islamic/etc folks? I mentioned them as well, as an example of a group that might be able to relate to his experience.
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
It wasn't even subtle. Using another demographic to tell one that is being shit on right now to sit down and shut up is a whole new level of gross.
Where did I tell Henroid to sit down and shut up though?
But sure let's just say you're right. I guess LGBTQ+ folks have no idea what it's like to have a government that openly calls for them to be treated as subhuman and exterminated.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
I don't see why Biden has to spend a single cent of that money.
There are plenty of must-spend funding bills passed, with attached oversight, that Trump has proven are no more than figments of lawmakers' imaginations.
The executive can't just say "I'm not going to spend that money". That would basically be line item veto, and that is not a power the president possesses. So the money must be spent. The president does have more leeway on exactly how the money is spent.
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
I don't see why Biden has to spend a single cent of that money.
There are plenty of must-spend funding bills passed, with attached oversight, that Trump has proven are no more than figments of lawmakers' imaginations.
The executive can't just say "I'm not going to spend that money". That would basically be line item veto, and that is not a power the president possesses. So the money must be spent. The president does have more leeway on exactly how the money is spent.
I think Trump has proven that the president does possess that power.
Weather Biden will choose to use that power is another question.
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
What are the LGBTQ+ situations that change if the government shuts down? Like what systemically at the federal level is currently helping you?
That's not what you asked. That comment was in response to "I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?"
don't move the goal posts just because you're rightfully angry at the government.
Four paragraphs you're ignoring right there.
Every single relief bill that does not address the economic problems will be used as ammunition against both further payments and actual solutions. To harm one's position like that and cede ground to the GOP to do it is fucked.
I just figure let them put the funding in the wall, and in a month Biden can spend it on habitat for spotted owls or replanting cactuses or something and by the time it comes to actual construction the money is gone if he's not able to reallocate it to things that are actually useful and helpful.
It sucks symbolically that the money went to the stupid fucking wall at all, but it's not like anything has to actually get built or done.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I just figure let them put the funding in the wall, and in a month Biden can spend it on habitat for spotted owls or replanting cactuses or something and by the time it comes to actual construction the money is gone if he's not able to reallocate it to things that are actually useful and helpful.
It sucks symbolically that the money went to the stupid fucking wall at all, but it's not like anything has to actually get built or done.
The Trump administration has been remarkably efficient at using wall funding to make a giant mess of things on the border. Not so great at actually building a wall, but pretty good at bulldozing nature preserves or blowing up Native burial sites. The flip side of that is that they've also been perfectly willing to re-purpose funds from elsewhere in the budget to fund the wall.
Best I'm hoping for on this is that it means Trump won't be using the EPA budget or whatever on wall crap.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Have the courts ruled on Trump diverting money to the wall, and if it was allowed, what is to stop Biden from taking money away from the wall the same way?
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Have the courts ruled on Trump diverting money to the wall, and if it was allowed, what is to stop Biden from taking money away from the wall the same way?
SCOTUS let him transfer military funds to the wall under the guise of it being an emergency. 'Emergency' seems to be equivalent to "It's coming right for us!" as far as letting the executive do whatever it wants. At least for a Republican administration that is. I'm sure that Checks and Balances will return from their four year vacation sometime in late January.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
I'd have to look into this because there have been a few cases where wall construction funds and "new wall" have actually turned out to be funds for existing wall; especially, with this shit show administration. One of the things that Biden can totally do to shit on the racists fuckers when he gets in, is pretty much pull any defense of ongoing cases in Texas, where the Trump admin is trying to seize land for his shitty wall and the landowners are having none of it.
We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
I don't see why Biden has to spend a single cent of that money.
There are plenty of must-spend funding bills passed, with attached oversight, that Trump has proven are no more than figments of lawmakers' imaginations.
The executive can't just say "I'm not going to spend that money". That would basically be line item veto, and that is not a power the president possesses. So the money must be spent. The president does have more leeway on exactly how the money is spent.
I propose he spend it on improvements to existing border structures. Improvements like demolishing unnecessary barriers in order to reduce maintenance costs
So I assume how much Biden can stretch the meaning there depends a lot on what the bill actually says. If it says "this money is for border safety, a la a wall" then Biden has a bunch of leeway. If it says "this money is for contracting a company to build a 20 foot tall wall on the US-Mexico border and nothing else" then there's a lot less flexibility (although it can probably be stalled in a dozen ways).
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So, shut down for a year?
Honestly, I think that's the wrong decision. I think a relatively small amount of funding for the wall that isn't going to do anything and can be fixed is better than the damage a year-long shutdown in the middle of a pandemic would do. So, I don't agree with you and I guess I'm glad the Dems disagreed with you too, I think this woulda hurt more people.
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Trump has to sign it. The senate has to pass it. It doesn't matter how many votes they have in the house. The House already passed a bill. So "we have the votes in the House" is worth the piss in your toilet for actually getting anything accomplished before January 20.
"We have to avoid a government shutdown!"
Why? What does it mean for Mexicans and the poor (since that came up) if the government shuts down? What does it mean if the government stays open?
The answer is, it's the same either way. The pandemic relief bill is a fucking joke in how it "helps" because it's not a systemic answer. Existing systems within the government keep us in our situation yet we have to avoid that government shutting down. The only difference is continued funding toward a bigoted-minded policy.
I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?
So because you are in a bad spot, you dont care if others are put in a bad spot?
You kinda dodged the part asking if a government shut down would help people (as in more than just you) by making it solely about yourself.
Some of us have comparable experiences vis a vis LGBTQ+ experiences, but no, unless someone's skin color and/or heritage falls within the designated range on the color chart and/or map, they don't know what that shit feels like.
But you're literally saying, "it's the same for us either way so fuck everyone else" which is
not cool.
People don't get TANF money, Medicaid/care payments don't go out, government contracts aren't paid putting more people out of work. If the last four years have proven anything it's that the broken system can get even more broken and hurt people even more. So yes, you fund shit for another month and try to fix it in the next Congress. Which is what you're advocating for anyway if you want to shutdown the government for a month, but with more suffering.
That's not what you asked. That comment was in response to "I'm icky because my family comes from THAT place, put a wall up! Do you guys even know what that shit feels like?"
don't move the goal posts just because you're rightfully angry at the government.
If the Democrats were seating 50+ Senators already this bullshit stimulus would be doa and we'd be tying the shutdown around Trump's neck one last time with plans to reopen the day after the inauguration.
But we're not, we're desperate for these two last seats and the next two years are a waking nightmare if we don't win these two seats in *checks notes* the heart of the confederacy.
Fuck.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
But I'm also angry that every time I express that anger, I get told I'm not supposed to be because it will mean I'm fucking over other people.
"There are no solutions to anything ever! Everything you advocate for will harm someone else!"
If I don't yell about this, Mexicans continue to get kicked around. If I DO yell about this, I'm accused of not caring about the poor or LGBTQ+ people or anyone else.
Fuck my motherfucking life you guys. You fucking win. Are you fucking happy now? Yes daddy, please treat me like shit.
Be angry! But by your own words when your anger hurts other people who are also in crappy positions, well, I'm not gonna consider that a good thing. If your anger is only channeled into ways that hurt people, you don't get much sympathy from me.
I'm not telling you what you are or aren't allowed to do, just my own thoughts.
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We'll just have to hope that Democrats take the Senate in the GA runoffs and proceed to yank all the funding they can. Will also ensure if they leave ongoing cases high and dry, that they can set things up so that shithead Congressional republicans can't find some BS way to continue those, while the shitty republican judges let them.
Sadly, they don't really have a choice here. It was, what can keep the government going and honestly, wall funding is probably one of the easier things to walk back since it takes time to build those shitty things and I want to say any new funding is going to require a bidding process for who gets it, so that'll add more time before anything gets done.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
As the article says the funds have to be spent, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some leeway in how they are spent, so Biden could hopefully designate them for existing wall if he wanted.
or possibly for "securing environs" and so we protect what saguaro groves we haven't pointlessly destroyed.
As a gay dude, you utterly disgust me with your attempt to drop LGTBQ people in front of Hendroid as some sort of demographic shield.
Still totally fucked up though and should be brought up as a reason to dump the Georgia Republican senators. More interested in a useless vanity project then running the country and helping their constituents. Tie this to every single R senator I guess.
Did you not want Tox to answer the question posed?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-education-idUSKCN1R12EH
$1.2B out, $1.375B back in.
Tox could answer that without using gays as a bashing shield and you damn well know it.
The GOP, as a party, seems intent on shooting the country and letting it die and so many true believers have ascended to their ranks that I don’t think the party even knows WHY they want to burn it all down. It’s for the glory of Trump right now, but once he’s gone it will be someone or something else.
You can’t negotiate with that, and the people to the left of the Democrats can’t really push the party further left because the only leverage is “or I won’t vote for you” which winds up helping the party that is actively harmful to the left’s stated goals (as opposed to the Democratic leadership which offers token support if any and resistance or condescension most of the time).
The GOP don’t care if the government functions, so shutdowns don’t have any power, they don’t seem to have any shame, and the minutiae of government is so boring to the average stressed out person that it takes too long to explain exactly how the Republicans are fucking everything and people just kind of glaze away because they have shit to do or else they won’t be able to eat.
I fully expect a debt ceiling default if a few more QAnonists get into the Senate or a few more Boomer GOP reps kick the bucket and create a leadership vacuum. I’m sure that Trump or his minions will be while-heartedly supporting every QAnon Racist they can find to primary the GOP leadership after McConnell & Co. officially acknowledge Biden as President next July.
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Well if Democrats get the Senate and pull the funding, then no he doesn't because there is no longer money that is allotted for such a thing. Also the money is just for building a wall, if he pulls the US out of all current cases involving seizing land for wall construction, then any funds that specify a specific stretch can't be legally spent.
These are things that can potentially happen because court cases take time and any new construction probably has to go through a bidding process that also takes time. Honestly, I'd love for Biden to through out some standards for a fence that ensure it's impossible for anyone to actually meet the criteria and somehow find a way to make it fucking obnoxious to get rid of those standards. That way the next racist asshole in the WH will have to spend time getting it reversed and slowing down the ability to get wall construction done.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Would you mind showing me where I bashed him with LGBTQ+ folks? Did I also bash him with arabic/islamic/etc folks? I mentioned them as well, as an example of a group that might be able to relate to his experience.
I don't see why Biden has to spend a single cent of that money.
There are plenty of must-spend funding bills passed, with attached oversight, that Trump has proven are no more than figments of lawmakers' imaginations.
If the evangelical community I grew up in is anything to go by, they honestly, truly believe they're protecting the country from something even worse. No, not God's wrath. They'd be fine with that.
These people hear "socialism" and picture a Randian hellscape. They think that if the government gives people money that they did not earn, the economy - the country's very beating heart - will sputter to a stop, and everything they have will be taken away from them and given to the "undeserving," who, of course, will squander it and be no better off than they were to begin with (or they wouldn't be poor in the first place).
That's why they're willing to shovel lives into the maw by the thousands. It's racism, xenophobia, and zero-sum thinking all bound up in fear.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
It wasn't even subtle. Using another demographic to tell one that is being shit on right now to sit down and shut up is a whole new level of gross.
Where did I tell Henroid to sit down and shut up though?
The executive can't just say "I'm not going to spend that money". That would basically be line item veto, and that is not a power the president possesses. So the money must be spent. The president does have more leeway on exactly how the money is spent.
I think Trump has proven that the president does possess that power.
Weather Biden will choose to use that power is another question.
Four paragraphs you're ignoring right there.
Every single relief bill that does not address the economic problems will be used as ammunition against both further payments and actual solutions. To harm one's position like that and cede ground to the GOP to do it is fucked.
It sucks symbolically that the money went to the stupid fucking wall at all, but it's not like anything has to actually get built or done.
The Trump administration has been remarkably efficient at using wall funding to make a giant mess of things on the border. Not so great at actually building a wall, but pretty good at bulldozing nature preserves or blowing up Native burial sites. The flip side of that is that they've also been perfectly willing to re-purpose funds from elsewhere in the budget to fund the wall.
Best I'm hoping for on this is that it means Trump won't be using the EPA budget or whatever on wall crap.
SCOTUS let him transfer military funds to the wall under the guise of it being an emergency. 'Emergency' seems to be equivalent to "It's coming right for us!" as far as letting the executive do whatever it wants. At least for a Republican administration that is. I'm sure that Checks and Balances will return from their four year vacation sometime in late January.
I propose he spend it on improvements to existing border structures. Improvements like demolishing unnecessary barriers in order to reduce maintenance costs
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