So I assume how much Biden can stretch the meaning there depends a lot on what the bill actually says. If it says "this money is for border safety, a la a wall" then Biden has a bunch of leeway. If it says "this money is for contracting a company to build a 20 foot tall wall on the US-Mexico border and nothing else" then there's a lot less flexibility (although it can probably be stalled in a dozen ways).
Interpret literally, then say nothing can be done by treaty.
So I assume how much Biden can stretch the meaning there depends a lot on what the bill actually says. If it says "this money is for border safety, a la a wall" then Biden has a bunch of leeway. If it says "this money is for contracting a company to build a 20 foot tall wall on the US-Mexico border and nothing else" then there's a lot less flexibility (although it can probably be stalled in a dozen ways).
Interpret literally, then say nothing can be done by treaty.
Heck, just start on the eastern third of the border first.
Let contracting companies bids have to include scuba gear.
So I assume how much Biden can stretch the meaning there depends a lot on what the bill actually says. If it says "this money is for border safety, a la a wall" then Biden has a bunch of leeway. If it says "this money is for contracting a company to build a 20 foot tall wall on the US-Mexico border and nothing else" then there's a lot less flexibility (although it can probably be stalled in a dozen ways).
Interpret literally, then say nothing can be done by treaty.
Heck, just start on the eastern third of the border first.
Let contracting companies bids have to include scuba gear.
Surely this is an opportunity to keep out those Suspicious Canadians?
So I assume how much Biden can stretch the meaning there depends a lot on what the bill actually says. If it says "this money is for border safety, a la a wall" then Biden has a bunch of leeway. If it says "this money is for contracting a company to build a 20 foot tall wall on the US-Mexico border and nothing else" then there's a lot less flexibility (although it can probably be stalled in a dozen ways).
Interpret literally, then say nothing can be done by treaty.
Heck, just start on the eastern third of the border first.
Let contracting companies bids have to include scuba gear.
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Did Biden make any comments that he's going to divert funding from the border fences or tear down sections of it?
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
Did Biden make any comments that he's going to divert funding from the border fences or tear down sections of it?
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
He hasn't said anything, because the president hasn't signed it, amd the whole point of this hideous bullshit is to not hurt the asshole's precious fee-fees.
Did Biden make any comments that he's going to divert funding from the border fences or tear down sections of it?
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
I don't know, but if he does expand it it's definitely something we should get angry over.
Did Biden make any comments that he's going to divert funding from the border fences or tear down sections of it?
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
He hasn't said anything, because the president hasn't signed it, amd the whole point of this hideous bullshit is to not hurt the asshole's precious fee-fees.
The border wall has been a front and center policy for 4 years now, as has immigration in general, so I would expect he has some comments on his view on the boreder fence.
I'm mostly asking because of the previous comment about how he could undo Trump's funding of the wall and wondering if he would want to.
I don't follow US politics super closely, so I can't always distinguish discussions about actual policy positions versus optimistic what-ifs, so I just wanted to clarify since this would be a big diverging point on previous admins.
Did Biden make any comments that he's going to divert funding from the border fences or tear down sections of it?
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
He hasn't said anything, because the president hasn't signed it, amd the whole point of this hideous bullshit is to not hurt the asshole's precious fee-fees.
The border wall has been a front and center policy for 4 years now, as has immigration in general, so I would expect he has some comments on his view on the boreder fence.
I'm mostly asking because of the previous comment about how he could undo Trump's funding of the wall and wondering if he would want to.
I don't follow US politics super closely, so I can't always distinguish discussions about actual policy positions versus optimistic what-ifs, so I just wanted to clarify since this would be a big diverging point on previous admins.
A quick google is showing mostly the recent battle, but it looks like about a week ago the military estimated that Biden would save $2.6 billion if he stopped building.
He did make a campaign promise to stop construction, I just can't find a direct source.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
I kind of think the right are nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves, though.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
I kind of think the right are nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves, though.
I don't. I think the right is mostly people who have been conned, led by a handful of assholes who want to own everything forever.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
I kind of think the right are nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves, though.
I don't. I think the right is mostly people who have been conned, led by a handful of assholes who want to own everything forever.
No-one's paying your racist uncle to leave vile comments on the local newspaper's online comments section.
The assholes at the top are the same as the assholes at the bottom, just richer.
The right will happily lead the country into ruin as long as they get to rule over the ashes. What this thread demonstrates is that any attempt to resist that by the Democrats will never be enough because they have to work within a system and can't snap their fingers and make everything 100% better overnight. Any concessions they make to minimize damage will be seen as fully siding with the enemy, which in turn weakens them as the people who are ostensibly their allies stop helping, which in turn leads to said enemies becoming more empowered, and we spiral ever downwards.
...the only part I don't get is "Liberals want to destroy America!" Like, no, we live here too? Why would I want to burn my own house down?
I mean, the Right does too, and yet...
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
I kind of think the right are nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves, though.
I don't. I think the right is mostly people who have been conned, led by a handful of assholes who want to own everything forever.
No-one's paying your racist uncle to leave vile comments on the local newspaper's online comments section.
The assholes at the top are the same as the assholes at the bottom, just richer.
I don't see how that contradicts anything I said, honestly
The right will happily lead the country into ruin as long as they get to rule over the ashes. What this thread demonstrates is that any attempt to resist that by the Democrats will never be enough because they have to work within a system and can't snap their fingers and make everything 100% better overnight. Any concessions they make to minimize damage will be seen as fully siding with the enemy, which in turn weakens them as the people who are ostensibly their allies stop helping, which in turn leads to said enemies becoming more empowered, and we spiral ever downwards.
Love to see those darn leftists blamed not only for the (in)actions of the milquetoast centrist Democratic leadership, but also for the general decline of America.
We're dealing with the fallout from leftist inaction that started over 20 years ago and has been compounded upon ever since. If, instead of only bothering to vote once every four years they had participated in every election they could across those two decades, the milquetoast centrist Democratic leadership have today--if they still somehow managed to get elected--would be relegated to the Manchin role and not leadership. So, when you're forced to play a game where your choices are to fuck over hundreds of thousands of people or millions of people and you pick the former, I'm not going to act like if the choice was fuck over no one or fuck over those hundreds of thousands of people you'd still pick the latter.
Just ignore the fact that those same milquetoast centrist Democrats have been doing everything they can to depress the left voters and minimize anyone on the left who manages to actually get into office.
Just ignore the fact that those same milquetoast centrist Democrats have been doing everything they can to depress the left voters and minimize anyone on the left who manages to actually get into office.
They have not been doing "everything they can" to depress left voters, no. The super-online crowd who have tried to claim "leftist" for themselves and only themselves pout every time Dem leadership opens their mouths (...or doesn't, or does anything really), but that's kind of their own little reality.
We're dealing with the fallout from leftist inaction that started over 20 years ago and has been compounded upon ever since. If, instead of only bothering to vote once every four years they had participated in every election they could across those two decades, the milquetoast centrist Democratic leadership have today--if they still somehow managed to get elected--would be relegated to the Manchin role and not leadership. So, when you're forced to play a game where your choices are to fuck over hundreds of thousands of people or millions of people and you pick the former, I'm not going to act like if the choice was fuck over no one or fuck over those hundreds of thousands of people you'd still pick the latter.
If, as you suggest, having the left vote in down-ticket elections is so important, then why is it the left's fault when the Democratic leadership backs centrist candidates over progressive candidates, thereby depressing voter turnout? Shouldn't the Democratic leadership be trying to appeal to those left voters?
So which is it? That the left are so numerous and important that their votes can swing elections, or so small and inconsequential that their concerns should be smugly dismissed and their demands ignored?
Processing capacity at the border is not like a light that you can just switch on and off.
Migrants and asylum seekers absolutely should not believe those in the region peddling
the idea that the border will suddenly be fully open to process everyone on Day 1. It will
not. We are inheriting a deeply damaged and broken infrastructure, and processing
capacity must be restored and greatly expanded, especially in light of the current
pandemic. Our priority is to reopen asylum processing at the border consistent with the
capacity to do so safely and to protect public health, especially in the context of
COVID-19. This effort will begin immediately but it will take months to develop the
capacity that we will need to reopen fully.
Not exactly much of a walkback. Shit's busted, they're going to start right away, takes a little while to actually fix it.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
NEW -- Biden will not immediately roll back Trump immigration and border restrictions, Susan Rice and Jake Sullivan tell Spanish news agency EFE, and Title 42, MPP etc will take time to undo, despite campaign promises for "Day One" reversals
Honestly I get that it will take time to get a working process. I'd rather they just go hard in the other direction though, and then adjust things as needed. (I mean personally I think borders are dumb anyways, but that's a minority view :P )
We have been saying all along that the damage Trump did will take sone time to fix.
And a lot of it makes sense, though. But like I linked above, there's at least one concrete example of Biden saying this was a Day-One thing, and now isn't.
We have been saying all along that the damage Trump did will take sone time to fix.
Speaking as someone closely tied to the issue of immigration, I see this as step one of punting it down the field long enough to hope the public forgets about the issue so it doesn't have to be addressed in a meaningful way. It's been the playbook go-to for at least as long as I've been alive.
Honestly I get that it will take time to get a working process. I'd rather they just go hard in the other direction though, and then adjust things as needed. (I mean personally I think borders are dumb anyways, but that's a minority view :P )
And that's exactly what the quote is saying they'll do? Read the interview, it's quite short. The answer to pretty much all the questions is 'Starting right away, but the staffing and resources isn't there to do it right, so it's going to take time to fix'
We have been saying all along that the damage Trump did will take sone time to fix.
And a lot of it makes sense, though. But like I linked above, there's at least one concrete example of Biden saying this was a Day-One thing, and now isn't.
He will reverse the policy on day 1... that has not changed. The policy implementation will not be done immediately on day 1 because that is impossible. That has not changed
In fact nothing has changed except that the incoming admin clarified some wild expectations from people who thought that on Jan 20 everything would be fixed
Honestly I get that it will take time to get a working process. I'd rather they just go hard in the other direction though, and then adjust things as needed. (I mean personally I think borders are dumb anyways, but that's a minority view :P )
And that's exactly what the quote is saying they'll do? Read the interview, it's quite short. The answer to pretty much all the questions is 'Starting right away, but the staffing and resources isn't there to do it right, so it's going to take time to fix'
President-elect Biden will follow through on his commitment to end the
MPP program early in his administration. MPP has been a disaster from the start and
has led to a humanitarian crisis in northern Mexico. But putting the new policy into
practice will take time. The current administration dismantled much of the necessary
capacity to ensure the safe and orderly processing of migrants. We need time to
increase processing capacity and to do so consistent with public health requirements.
As we build up the necessary infrastructure, staffing, and procedures -- including
increasing processing capacity at ports of entry and implementing COVID-19 protocols
to protect public health -- we will restore due process protections and begin processing
those asylum seekers who were enrolled into the program in a fair, safe, and orderly
manner.
These are not the same thing. Like, if they follow through (which I'm still expecting), it's still a vast improvement and a good thing. But it's still not what Biden promised, unless you weasel-word it in politician-speech, which I don't like doing.
Seems like you're trying to equate "on day one, I will end this program" with "on day one, I will start the process of ending this program." Which... I mean, I guess that's not a lie, but it certainly isn't the implication imo.
So what you're saying is that the headline is bad/misleading/clickbaity.
Welcome to "journalism".
(I almost typed "modern" there, but then I remembered Hearst et al.)
So what you're saying is that the headline is bad/misleading/clickbaity.
Welcome to "journalism".
(I almost typed "modern" there, but then I remembered Hearst et al.)
It sounds like it was designed to anger leftists and get them to share it on social media.
So what you're saying is that the headline is bad/misleading/clickbaity.
Welcome to "journalism".
(I almost typed "modern" there, but then I remembered Hearst et al.)
I mean, I'm saying that Biden's tweet was misleading. The full interview still doesn't imply that they will end MPP on Day One, which to me in the context of Biden's tweet there means it's gone Day One.
On day 1 he indeed will change the policy. It will take time to implement that policy because the outgoing admin is doing everything in its power to make it harder to implement. This is like Obama’s day one promise to shut Guantanamo. He did that (even though he failed)... but like even if he hadn’t failed it would have taken time to get the people out of the base...
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Biden's tweet above is absolutely a check he wrote that he isn't cashing. Come on guys, don't make excuses for him.
We have been saying all along that the damage Trump did will take sone time to fix.
And a lot of it makes sense, though. But like I linked above, there's at least one concrete example of Biden saying this was a Day-One thing, and now isn't.
He will reverse the policy on day 1... that has not changed. The policy implementation will not be done immediately on day 1 because that is impossible. That has not changed
In fact nothing has changed except that the incoming admin clarified some wild expectations from people who thought that on Jan 20 everything would be fixed
Yup.
Plus, you know, there's a pandemic going on, which you'll see him continually emphasizing there as being another problem with processing people. And Mexico is a fucking shitshow when it comes to Covid right now. Worse then the US last I saw.
So what you're saying is that the headline is bad/misleading/clickbaity.
Welcome to "journalism".
(I almost typed "modern" there, but then I remembered Hearst et al.)
I mean, I'm saying that Biden's tweet was misleading. The full interview still doesn't imply that they will end MPP on Day One, which to me in the context of Biden's tweet there means it's gone Day One.
Ending the program immediately and having enough staff and space to resume normal* processing aren't the same thing. Especially for the "fuck you wait in Mexico" program. There's probably a couple months worth of people that in regular conditions would have been passed through and given follow up asylum hearing dates. Now that all needs to be done at once.
If you just wave them through, it's no better than if they crossed undocumented; without the asylum paperwork they're much more vulnerable to ICE bullshit.
*"Normal" for immigration stuff is still hilariously fucked, but you get the idea
Phoenix-D on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Posts
Interpret literally, then say nothing can be done by treaty.
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Heck, just start on the eastern third of the border first.
Let contracting companies bids have to include scuba gear.
Surely this is an opportunity to keep out those Suspicious Canadians?
That's where the treaty comes in actually.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
It got expanded under both the Democrats and the Rebuplicans, so unless he specifically addressed this I just assume it'll be funded and expanded, but with less rallies.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
He hasn't said anything, because the president hasn't signed it, amd the whole point of this hideous bullshit is to not hurt the asshole's precious fee-fees.
I don't know, but if he does expand it it's definitely something we should get angry over.
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The border wall has been a front and center policy for 4 years now, as has immigration in general, so I would expect he has some comments on his view on the boreder fence.
I'm mostly asking because of the previous comment about how he could undo Trump's funding of the wall and wondering if he would want to.
I don't follow US politics super closely, so I can't always distinguish discussions about actual policy positions versus optimistic what-ifs, so I just wanted to clarify since this would be a big diverging point on previous admins.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
I hope the former wins out because I don’t think we can change the second until a Republican is elected and fails to. Fuck up all the foreign policy
A quick google is showing mostly the recent battle, but it looks like about a week ago the military estimated that Biden would save $2.6 billion if he stopped building.
He did make a campaign promise to stop construction, I just can't find a direct source.
They don't think they're playing with matches, and most(?) of us give them that much credit. They don't seem to extend the same benefit of the doubt to us, at least publicly. They prefer to believe liberals are some kind of nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves. That's what I don't understand.
I kind of think the right are nihilistic monsters who want to ruin it for everyone, including themselves, though.
I don't. I think the right is mostly people who have been conned, led by a handful of assholes who want to own everything forever.
No-one's paying your racist uncle to leave vile comments on the local newspaper's online comments section.
The assholes at the top are the same as the assholes at the bottom, just richer.
I don't see how that contradicts anything I said, honestly
Love to see those darn leftists blamed not only for the (in)actions of the milquetoast centrist Democratic leadership, but also for the general decline of America.
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They have not been doing "everything they can" to depress left voters, no. The super-online crowd who have tried to claim "leftist" for themselves and only themselves pout every time Dem leadership opens their mouths (...or doesn't, or does anything really), but that's kind of their own little reality.
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If, as you suggest, having the left vote in down-ticket elections is so important, then why is it the left's fault when the Democratic leadership backs centrist candidates over progressive candidates, thereby depressing voter turnout? Shouldn't the Democratic leadership be trying to appeal to those left voters?
So which is it? That the left are so numerous and important that their votes can swing elections, or so small and inconsequential that their concerns should be smugly dismissed and their demands ignored?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Biden backing off promised day 1 reforms
Not exactly much of a walkback. Shit's busted, they're going to start right away, takes a little while to actually fix it.
and now saying that will take time.
Honestly I get that it will take time to get a working process. I'd rather they just go hard in the other direction though, and then adjust things as needed. (I mean personally I think borders are dumb anyways, but that's a minority view :P )
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And a lot of it makes sense, though. But like I linked above, there's at least one concrete example of Biden saying this was a Day-One thing, and now isn't.
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And that's exactly what the quote is saying they'll do? Read the interview, it's quite short. The answer to pretty much all the questions is 'Starting right away, but the staffing and resources isn't there to do it right, so it's going to take time to fix'
He will reverse the policy on day 1... that has not changed. The policy implementation will not be done immediately on day 1 because that is impossible. That has not changed
In fact nothing has changed except that the incoming admin clarified some wild expectations from people who thought that on Jan 20 everything would be fixed
These are not the same thing. Like, if they follow through (which I'm still expecting), it's still a vast improvement and a good thing. But it's still not what Biden promised, unless you weasel-word it in politician-speech, which I don't like doing.
Seems like you're trying to equate "on day one, I will end this program" with "on day one, I will start the process of ending this program." Which... I mean, I guess that's not a lie, but it certainly isn't the implication imo.
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Welcome to "journalism".
(I almost typed "modern" there, but then I remembered Hearst et al.)
It sounds like it was designed to anger leftists and get them to share it on social media.
I mean, I'm saying that Biden's tweet was misleading. The full interview still doesn't imply that they will end MPP on Day One, which to me in the context of Biden's tweet there means it's gone Day One.
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Yup.
Plus, you know, there's a pandemic going on, which you'll see him continually emphasizing there as being another problem with processing people. And Mexico is a fucking shitshow when it comes to Covid right now. Worse then the US last I saw.
Ending the program immediately and having enough staff and space to resume normal* processing aren't the same thing. Especially for the "fuck you wait in Mexico" program. There's probably a couple months worth of people that in regular conditions would have been passed through and given follow up asylum hearing dates. Now that all needs to be done at once.
If you just wave them through, it's no better than if they crossed undocumented; without the asylum paperwork they're much more vulnerable to ICE bullshit.
*"Normal" for immigration stuff is still hilariously fucked, but you get the idea
Name a significant government program that literally starts on the day of signature.