Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
A booklet with a couple colors mentioned is a far cry from an in-depth masterclass. That's the type of thing they put in books or White Dwarf which they charge for.
But that's beside the point. I was surprised because it was him indirectly saying he worked for GW on his independent channel. I knew who he was prior but I'd wager a lot of folks didn't. I'm sure that ruffled some feathers.
At about the same time they did in-depth painting guides [the holy grail of the Harlequin I have}
I found out they also did Warhammer Visions
Which was an expanded white dwarf deep dive of painting .
I know most of this stuff comes from when I did not paint or play GW stuff so it's kind of interesting to see how they were trying pre warhammer tv to get people interested in the hobby or at least paint thier minis
I was shocked when Darren did a White Scars video and prefaced it by saying he had talked to the 'Eavy Metal folks and he was using their exact recipe. That he was allowed to keep his job is actually showing tremendous grace on GW's part.
If GW didn't have a non-compete clause in its employment contract it sure as hell does now. These are super common in any industry that involves making or designing stuff. GW is not in the wrong on this.
See, the thing is, GW is in this odd in between space, where they want a better social media presence, which means they want some of these people to be personalities, like Duncan and Darren, but making them "hobby celebs" or "brand ambassadors" by accident or intentionally, would presumably entail them getting paid a bit more, a bit more support, etc. Which they aren't doing.
I was shocked when Darren did a White Scars video and prefaced it by saying he had talked to the 'Eavy Metal folks and he was using their exact recipe. That he was allowed to keep his job is actually showing tremendous grace on GW's part.
If GW didn't have a non-compete clause in its employment contract it sure as hell does now. These are super common in any industry that involves making or designing stuff. GW is not in the wrong on this.
Wait, is the 'Eavy Metal color scheme a trade secret or something? They literally put it in the pamphlets that come with Space Marines.
I agree GW is odd about creating a online presence outside of their normal channels.
I was begging GW to show me how to the Veiled path harlequins {it was someone that pm'd me telling me find the painting guide on facebook] GW would usually default to showing how to do the generic look of the harlequins Masque of the Midnight Sorrow
But it's people like Apathetic Fish that showed how to do it with mostly gw paints https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MUcb0K_3XQ
It's also interesting as he used to hype up belonging to a very toxic group online but has gone back removing those cards from his videos
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
No, they don't. The absolute last thing we need is for yet another company to get involved in dumbshit modern internet politics.
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
No, they don't. The absolute last thing we need is for yet another company to get involved in dumbshit modern internet politics.
They are doing something about them, but they're doing it in (imo) the right way.
It's a slow, subtle change. More female miniatures, more representation both in-game and in materials (notably a big chunk of the pictures of games in progress in the rulebook feature mixed genders.) You don't come blazing out of the gates with this kind of thing, you do it slow, subtle, like a frog in boiling water.
Whilst personally I would have loved them to start including female marines when they did Primaris, I'm fairly confident to say we'll get a female marine at some point in the near future.
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Nah, not gonna happen. What they will do is start playing up how inhuman (most) marines are and how they really shouldn’t count as male either since they reproduce asexually by parasitising another species (humans) if you want to get technical.
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
No, they don't. The absolute last thing we need is for yet another company to get involved in dumbshit modern internet politics.
I am not saying just GW needs to fix ArW and CG n freinds we as an overall group need to fix and move away from that toxic mindset as i can go on and on about the group I dealt with when I last played 40k as people as they were silly geese quite sexist and overall asses
I was the only person to call them out for their BS everyone else just either ignored it or played along
It sounds like you just found a group that you didn't fit in with. It happens.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I really hope the rumor isn't true about the next psychic awakening for Space Wolves is gonna have new models that are only available in a versus box. I don't want to drop a bunch of money on a versus box and psychic awakening book.
Trying to be better about my spending habits.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I really hope the rumor isn't true about the next psychic awakening for Space Wolves is gonna have new models that are only available in a versus box. I don't want to drop a bunch of money on a versus box and psychic awakening book.
Trying to be better about my spending habits.
Even if they do, they'll release the models individually.
Eventually.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I really hope the rumor isn't true about the next psychic awakening for Space Wolves is gonna have new models that are only available in a versus box. I don't want to drop a bunch of money on a versus box and psychic awakening book.
Trying to be better about my spending habits.
Even if they do, they'll release the models individually.
Eventually.
Yea, I don't want to wait for the eventually if there is some cool new stuff. If the rumors for Ragnar are true he should be cool to run but only if he ends up I phobos armor. If not then forget that nonsense.
The vanguard stuff from a while back did make me want to run Reivers, I really like the poses but the models suck so much.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
1K points per player. Rule of 2 instead of rule of 3. Teams share CP pools. ITC tourney missions.
So with the shared CP pools I was like, fuck it my teammate is playing dual battalion guard so I don't have to bring one.
I am thinking a ridiculous list for my side:
Spearhead Deatchment:
Legion-Night Lords
Specialist Detachment-Soulforged Pack
Field Commander
HQs:
2x Lord Discordants with Baleflamers
Heavy Support:
1xVenomcrawler
1xMaulerfiend
1xDefiler with havoc autocannon and defiler scourge
Flyers:
2xHeldrakes with baleflamers
My teammate is bringing a scion battalion with a valk drop and a guard battalion with two tank commanders and the new tank ace stuff. Plus lots of bodies.
I am now excited running pure monster mash.
Also going night lords because the trait doesn't matter but a lot of NL stuff works on the vehicles especially the vox scream. Though I might swap to AL for blowing up folks.
This is like the third time this thread I've muttered at my monitor going "oh god, can we please keep the IRL politics out of the nice thread about overpriced plastic spacemen?" But at some point, one realizes that being silent is not being the bigger person, it's yielding ground that doesn't need to be yielded, and that's how one gets treated like a "frog in boiling water."
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
No, they don't. The absolute last thing we need is for yet another company to get involved in dumbshit modern internet politics.
They are doing something about them, but they're doing it in (imo) the right way.
It's a slow, subtle change. More female miniatures, more representation both in-game and in materials (notably a big chunk of the pictures of games in progress in the rulebook feature mixed genders.) You don't come blazing out of the gates with this kind of thing, you do it slow, subtle, like a frog in boiling water.
Whilst personally I would have loved them to start including female marines when they did Primaris, I'm fairly confident to say we'll get a female marine at some point in the near future.
That sounds horrific. "You guys keep resisting our attempts to 'fix' your hobby for our woke politics, but if we do it nice and slow you're too stupid to realize you're being manipulated."
It's even more horrific that people see nothing wrong with this attitude, or stating it outright.
Usually people performing entryism don't admit to it until it's already done -- and trust me, the woke takeover of Warhammer 40k is far from a sure thing. There are plenty of people pushing back against the gentrification of 40k.
There will never be Female Space Marines. It goes against 30 years of established lore and canon. It's a stupid, pandering idea that would cost GW millions of dollars for no benefit other than making woke activists smug on reddit. GW has already smacked down the BL guys trying to make female Custodes -- thank the Emperor for small favors -- and they wouldn't have wasted all the effort rebuilding the Sisters of Battle if they were just going to slap some breasts on some Ultrasmurfs a few years later.
For every woke activist pushing to "fix" the hobby for an activist dopamine hit there are a thousand people like me who would recoil and rage about it if they capitulated to the woke activists. Which is why the woke activists are doing their best to make sure people like us hesitate in dissenting.
I'm sure I'm "toxic" for saying this. But at some point one realizes "toxic" is just a codeword that means "someone who disagrees with our politics." There's only so many times one can load up Arch Warhammer's channel and not be blasted with neo-nazi fascist capitalist [insert word salad here] propaganda before you realize that people are just calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with them bad names to try and minimize their reach and silence dissent. It's a form of cancel culture, and it only works if you care about being called "toxic" to begin with.
Listen, the politics are competely unrelated to the topic, just Ignore everyone with an agenda, this isn't some social justice issue. We'd all like more people to share our hobby and the solution simply has nothing to do with being "woke".
You're going to get more women wargamers at the same rate and for the same reasons you get more "normal" men to adopt the hobby. As science fiction and fantasy become less stigmatized more than just "the nerds" will engage in science fiction and fantasy hobbies. Like it or not the vast majority of nerds are white/asian/indian men.
Growing up I played D&D and WoD tabletop rpgs, and specifically Vampire the Masquerade had so many more women it was crazy. I don't remember any girls in my d&d parties and almost gender parity in VtM, looking back there were many reasons it was socially permissible for them in a way D&D wasn't: it was common for girls to be into vampires at the time, the game styled itself as more artsy and acting/drama related than a tactical combat simulator, the goth style was popular to others, etc.
So the board game renaissance and hollywood superhero movies are doing more for diversity in our hobbies than representation in the rulebooks that none of the target audience is actually reading.
Save the political preaching and responses to such for other topics.
Because it's a literal fantasy game and people want to see people like themselves capable of doing cool things?
There's no actual reason for Space Marines to be exclusively male: it's not like the game is doing a deep introspective look at masculinity or brotherhood or whatever. They wouldn't even look different til they took the helmet off.
1)More female guard. Guard need more than Cadian models and more models.
2)Basically you can mix gender everyone but necrons and probably won't do space marines because reasons. Whatever. Oh and Orks. Because they are actually genderless mushroom things anyway. There mom was a spore. There dad was a spore.
Edit: Chaos cultist need more models/new models. Mix genders there would rock. Also give me Bile's creations. They would be neat.
They did have female Orks in older fluff, or maybe that was Orcs in WFB?
Older fluff for jokes
I am fine with keeping Space Marines male. As all the stuff they do to them leaves them no longer human
Just the lack of female heads for imperial guard is insulting. Eldar have a female body for guardians a bumpy body but not really a bare head Dark eldar have both.
THe Traitor guard in blackstone have female models the genestealers have females! I don't know what is the time it takes from desgin to on the shelf. In the Jes Goodwin interview they did when they asked him about the Phobos marines he quiped it was years ago as he riffiled though his notebook
There should, at the very least, be female marines in the Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children, albeit for very different reasons.
This is why I was thinking stuff with Bile. There are lore folks that may not be pure marines but they can hold their own verse marines one vs. one in his books that work for him.
I would have really liked female Primaris Marines, but I see the consternation it brings. On the other hand I’ve seen how players want to identify with their armies very recently: the three women in my Kill-Team campaign I’m starting are drawn to armies with female figures: Craftworld Eldar, Sisters of Battle, and the last is deciding between T’au (the Shadowsun model specifically) and Dark Eldar. Personally, I don’t think women will ever play war games in equal numbers as men just due to general preferences, but a sizable number might play if there were more female models, especially among the poster-children of 40k.
There was a literally nothing about the lore that suggests Cawl or some other super scientist couldn’t invent female space marines and acting like it would be a crime against the sacred lore is incredibly silly.
They are the flagship faction and insisting it needs to be no girls allowed is like saying the Avengers can’t have women on the team but it’s okay cause there’s one Marvel movie with a female lead.
Either there should be women or the flagship faction should be one that has women in it. It sucks that none of the starter boxes have a single bit of female rep and if you think inclusiveness ruins the hobby then yeah, that IS a pretty toxic attitude to have.
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I definitely felt the primaris line would be perfect for female space marines. They basically make it sound like they figured out how to make super humans a lot more efficiently.
It isn't like the models have to look signficantly different too, add some bare female space marine heads. This is what they did with the stormcast eternals and it works out perfectly. I even bought one of the real cheap easy build stormcast sets with the female had that has like half her head shaved to make her a wolf lord for my space wolves cause space wolves having female space marines seems like such a space wolves thing.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
There will never be Female Space Marines. It goes against 30 years of established lore and canon.
So did Primaris Marines. If GW eventually work female Marines into the fluff, how does it harm you in any way?
I read through the social gentrification article, and I think that’s the perceived harm: that more inclusion into social circles could end with alienating the “real nerds” who were put there because they have poor social skills. That being said I don’t agree with that article on two points: the first is ideologically: the analogy of social gentrification doesn’t align with actual gentrification, or more importantly the negative effects of it: it’s a relatively difficult and complex problem for a poor urban family to increase their wealth to that of the middle class. Whereas changing behavior to be more socially acceptable is both easier and more simple. In the words of R.W. Wheaton “don’t be a dick.” The second more practical point is that these social spaces that are “gentrified” don’t push nerds away from them: the gaming groups are by and large in insular face-to-face affairs. Your friend-group’s character isn’t defined or changed by the games you play but rather the other way around. The comic book and card shops that we played in 20 years ago are still welcoming to the “real nerd” crowd today, and much improved by the addition of more inclusive marketing strategies like regular cleaning and gaming event schedules.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I don't know if this is relevant but I feel like I'm just really lucky with the places I choose to game. The local game stores I go to are pretty good about making the stores a fun place for everyone. I've definitely seen people who have that shitty boys club mentality. A friend at work has an ex who wouldn't let her play D&D with his group because she is a woman.
The store I play 40K at which is a pretty huge store with one room for product, one for gaming, and another area with more paint products and tables to actually paint at. They sell basically everything tabletop: board games, RPGs, war games, etc. This store in particular is extremely good about making sure everyone feels welcome. Every now and then a group has an event after the store closes at 6pm for ladies night gaming. They also provide free tampons and pads in the bathrooms at the store. The customer service could be slightly better cause sometimes they employees make me feel like I'm inconveniencing them when I ask them about stock but besides that it is a great store.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
How many of you guys that are clamoring for more representation and/or female space marines have been making your desire known to GW by purchasing female models lately?
You don't need to answer this question in the thread, it's just something I want you to think about.
How many of you guys that are clamoring for more representation and/or female space marines have been making your desire known to GW by purchasing female models lately?
You don't need to answer this question in the thread, it's just something I want you to think about.
I’ve spent about a thousand on the new SoB range already. When I finally get into AoS I plan to go with Sigmarites specifically because the fantasy space marines have women now.
How many of you guys that are clamoring for more representation and/or female space marines have been making your desire known to GW by purchasing female models lately?
You don't need to answer this question in the thread, it's just something I want you to think about.
I don't think people need to buy models to show they want more representation for female models. Especially if it is out of their faction. Like the whole point is so people can buy them in their own faction.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
How many of you guys that are clamoring for more representation and/or female space marines have been making your desire known to GW by purchasing female models lately?
You don't need to answer this question in the thread, it's just something I want you to think about.
Every year when they do the surveys. And when I have met them at NoVA.
I’ve spent about a thousand on the new SoB range already. When I finally get into AoS I plan to go with Sigmarites specifically because the fantasy space marines have women now.
I picked up the army box, and played a 400 point game with just it against 400 points of custodes and got my shit rocked. The Cannonness with a Blessed Blade and an extra attack was a blender though.
I picked up the Hospitalier and I'll be putting a Rhino together soon, but I'm not sure where to go from there yet.
I’m slow at building and painting so I have yet to actually play a game with my Sisters. Next weekend I should finally have enough ready for at least a 500 point game.
Look, diverse groups are common to my upbringing so seeing it in art feels natural to me, but representation doesn't do a damn thing. I repeat my D&D 3E vs. VtM example. For the third edition of D&D they put a great deal of effort into representation, the iconic characters were 50% women, all different races, here's an article one of the designers wrote: https://www.enworld.org/threads/diversity-in-d-d-third-edition.668462/
None of it mattered, in the very same peer group, the same high school RPG club, the girls actively playing VtM considered D&D some nerdy nonsense and had zero interest in playing it.
Iron Man has done more to get women interested in space marines than female space marines ever would, and insisting that the "flagship faction" must include women serves only to antagonize the gentlemen who are deeply invested in the fiction and make a spectacle of how great an "ally" you are.
I’m confused as to why you think your anecdotal evidence and reference to one group/area of players somehow proves representation doesn’t matter.
I could easily just counter that by pointing out my own anecdotal evidence: since 3e and especially since the modern era of gaming and the push towards inclusiveness, I have seen WAY more women at gaming conventions, playing in local groups, and showing up in my local stores. I also have personally seen a bunch of women over the last couple years wander into the local GW store and express disappointment at the lack of female models, and lose interest.
And the problem with those “deeply invested in the fiction” is that the have never actually given a reason as to why it’s a problem for the story to have someone figure out how to make female space marines. I have yet to hear a solid explanation as to why it can’t actually ever happen in the lore, and the insistence that it can’t always ends up implying that a war that lasts thousands of years wouldn’t lead to the people in charge trying to make their weapons better, when actual war always inspires technological and scientific breakthoughs when it comes to improving them.
Female space marines can easily be done without changing or retconning the lore. It’s simply another chapter in a story, another cog in the war machine. As if there wouldn’t be plenty of key figureheads that wouldn’t love to double the pool of potential marines.
There will never be Female Space Marines. It goes against 30 years of established lore and canon.
So did Primaris Marines. If GW eventually work female Marines into the fluff, how does it harm you in any way?
"Marines++" is a far cry from "Female Marines," and Marines++ was a HUGELY contentious change that even to this day a large segment of the community hates, but ignoring that:
If they don't make the change, how does the lack of representation harm others in any way?
If it doesn't matter either way, then why the push to make the change?
If it's just being changed because it bothers someone that it exists in the way that it currently exists, that's not a valid reason to make the change.
There's a push to make this change from external forces because certain activist types are offended by a male only faction, and offended at an overwhelmingly male fanbase of the game. There's no similar demand for "Male Sisters of Battle," for example, nor a demand that GW make Female Orks, or Female Necrons. Odd, that. It's only the symbolic victory of forcing the playerbase to accept Female Space Marines that keeps getting brought up. So darned odd.
There was a literally nothing about the lore that suggests Cawl or some other super scientist couldn’t invent female space marines and acting like it would be a crime against the sacred lore is incredibly silly.
They are the flagship faction and insisting it needs to be no girls allowed is like saying the Avengers can’t have women on the team but it’s okay cause there’s one Marvel movie with a female lead.
Either there should be women or the flagship faction should be one that has women in it. It sucks that none of the starter boxes have a single bit of female rep and if you think inclusiveness ruins the hobby then yeah, that IS a pretty toxic attitude to have.
Representation matters
I'm sorry, I must have missed where the GW website requires you submit verification of your sex before buying a Space Marine boxed set? Is this different for women? I mean did they just know I was male because of my cookies or social media presence and not demand verification?
Oh wait, it's not "no girls allowed" at all, is it?
Tossing in token female characters isn't "inclusiveness." When ADB makes sure that his cast is X amount of Y race and always has at least Z amount of LGBT characters, which he has bragged about doing on social media, that's not being inclusive. That's tokenism. I'm old enough to remember when that was a bad thing, way back before the woke decided to try and play word games and redefine things.
As for "representation matters" -- no, it literally doesn't. They've done the studies on this, and ignoring the "diversity is a virtue" thing that's taken on faith, there's this absurd myth coming from the more insane sects of academia that you are the media you consume, and thus you need to see representation of yourself in your toys, yadda yadda. "Girls who don't have female characters to identify with are harmed" is just as absurd as "video games make you violent." It's the same broken premise, the same bad studies.
The Space Marines could be bunny rabbits for all I care, and it wouldn't harm anyone.
I use that specific example because that was the name of the paper by Adrienne Shaw that covered this -- "He could be a bunny rabbit for all I care." The result she found was that people do not identify with their characters, so diversity in characters in gaming doesn't matter. Representation doesn't matter.
The Space Marines could be bunny rabbits for all I'd care. (Actually, something like "Samurai Yojimbo in Mk4 Power Armor" would be kinda cool.)
But they're not bunny rabbits. And they're not female.
Look, diverse groups are common to my upbringing so seeing it in art feels natural to me, but representation doesn't do a damn thing. I repeat my D&D 3E vs. VtM example. For the third edition of D&D they put a great deal of effort into representation, the iconic characters were 50% women, all different races, here's an article one of the designers wrote: https://www.enworld.org/threads/diversity-in-d-d-third-edition.668462/
None of it mattered, in the very same peer group, the same high school RPG club, the girls actively playing VtM considered D&D some nerdy nonsense and had zero interest in playing it.
Iron Man has done more to get women interested in space marines than female space marines ever would, and insisting that the "flagship faction" must include women serves only to antagonize the gentlemen who are deeply invested in the fiction and make a spectacle of how great an "ally" you are.
Yup. Representation is a myth, but it's held as a near religious belief to certain sects of academia and activism.
As for Iron Man, yup. There's a reason why the Gravis Armor in the 8e Boxed Set has clear Iron Man influences. (I suspect that's why he's not available outside of the box / they haven't done other characters in standalone Gravis armor, actually. A polite email from Marvel complaining, an apology, yadda yadda?)
You're apparently confused by causation and correlation as well, the expansion of traditionally nerdy subjects into the mainstream and the push towards inclusiveness are happening at the same time, but one has nothing to do with the other. There are more women expressing interest in these hobbies for the same reason there are more men expressing interest in these hobbies. If you really want more women in wargaming get HBO to do 8 seasons of a #1 smash hit scifi space opera and get 40k featured in the next season of Stranger Things, etc.
As to insulting lore traditionalists, it's pretty clear from your very reasoning in that post. First you decide to do something for misguided political reasons, then you search for an in-context justification. That sort of thing is always going to annoy fans of a work, and while I personally stick to just reading the codices, I can respect the emotional investment put in by the guys reading all 50+ of those terrible Horus Heresy novels, etc.
I'm really glad for plastic Sisters models because I already own an all-metal Sisters army and the new kits are fantastic, but I've seen zero women start the hobby because of them. The only women wargaming in the places I frequent are playing Age of Sigmar ...as the all-male zeppelin Dwarves and all-male (I guess?) undead ghosts.
Honestly you guys are like one step away from whining about the SJWs and the feminists and it’s getting obvious this conversation is a huge waste a time, especially when neither of you have actually provided an actual reason as to why female space marines can’t work within the lore.
I should have realized this wasn’t a conversation worth having the moment I saw someone put the word woke in scare quotes like representation was some boogeyman to be hated and feared. Byeeeeee
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But that's beside the point. I was surprised because it was him indirectly saying he worked for GW on his independent channel. I knew who he was prior but I'd wager a lot of folks didn't. I'm sure that ruffled some feathers.
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I found out they also did Warhammer Visions
Which was an expanded white dwarf deep dive of painting .
I know most of this stuff comes from when I did not paint or play GW stuff so it's kind of interesting to see how they were trying pre warhammer tv to get people interested in the hobby or at least paint thier minis
I agree GW is odd about creating a online presence outside of their normal channels.
I was begging GW to show me how to the Veiled path harlequins {it was someone that pm'd me telling me find the painting guide on facebook] GW would usually default to showing how to do the generic look of the harlequins Masque of the Midnight Sorrow
But it's people like Apathetic Fish that showed how to do it with mostly gw paints
It's also interesting as he used to hype up belonging to a very toxic group online but has gone back removing those cards from his videos
It's that toxic group and various silly geese that I feel GW needs to do something about as they not only effect their products but how people perceive the people that use them
No, they don't. The absolute last thing we need is for yet another company to get involved in dumbshit modern internet politics.
They are doing something about them, but they're doing it in (imo) the right way.
It's a slow, subtle change. More female miniatures, more representation both in-game and in materials (notably a big chunk of the pictures of games in progress in the rulebook feature mixed genders.) You don't come blazing out of the gates with this kind of thing, you do it slow, subtle, like a frog in boiling water.
Whilst personally I would have loved them to start including female marines when they did Primaris, I'm fairly confident to say we'll get a female marine at some point in the near future.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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I am not saying just GW needs to fix ArW and CG n freinds we as an overall group need to fix and move away from that toxic mindset as i can go on and on about the group I dealt with when I last played 40k as people as they were silly geese quite sexist and overall asses
I was the only person to call them out for their BS everyone else just either ignored it or played along
Trying to be better about my spending habits.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Even if they do, they'll release the models individually.
Eventually.
Yea, I don't want to wait for the eventually if there is some cool new stuff. If the rumors for Ragnar are true he should be cool to run but only if he ends up I phobos armor. If not then forget that nonsense.
The vanguard stuff from a while back did make me want to run Reivers, I really like the poses but the models suck so much.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
1K points per player. Rule of 2 instead of rule of 3. Teams share CP pools. ITC tourney missions.
So with the shared CP pools I was like, fuck it my teammate is playing dual battalion guard so I don't have to bring one.
I am thinking a ridiculous list for my side:
Spearhead Deatchment:
Legion-Night Lords
Specialist Detachment-Soulforged Pack
Field Commander
HQs:
2x Lord Discordants with Baleflamers
Heavy Support:
1xVenomcrawler
1xMaulerfiend
1xDefiler with havoc autocannon and defiler scourge
Flyers:
2xHeldrakes with baleflamers
My teammate is bringing a scion battalion with a valk drop and a guard battalion with two tank commanders and the new tank ace stuff. Plus lots of bodies.
I am now excited running pure monster mash.
Also going night lords because the trait doesn't matter but a lot of NL stuff works on the vehicles especially the vox scream. Though I might swap to AL for blowing up folks.
That sounds horrific. "You guys keep resisting our attempts to 'fix' your hobby for our woke politics, but if we do it nice and slow you're too stupid to realize you're being manipulated."
It's even more horrific that people see nothing wrong with this attitude, or stating it outright.
Usually people performing entryism don't admit to it until it's already done -- and trust me, the woke takeover of Warhammer 40k is far from a sure thing. There are plenty of people pushing back against the gentrification of 40k.
There will never be Female Space Marines. It goes against 30 years of established lore and canon. It's a stupid, pandering idea that would cost GW millions of dollars for no benefit other than making woke activists smug on reddit. GW has already smacked down the BL guys trying to make female Custodes -- thank the Emperor for small favors -- and they wouldn't have wasted all the effort rebuilding the Sisters of Battle if they were just going to slap some breasts on some Ultrasmurfs a few years later.
For every woke activist pushing to "fix" the hobby for an activist dopamine hit there are a thousand people like me who would recoil and rage about it if they capitulated to the woke activists. Which is why the woke activists are doing their best to make sure people like us hesitate in dissenting.
I'm sure I'm "toxic" for saying this. But at some point one realizes "toxic" is just a codeword that means "someone who disagrees with our politics." There's only so many times one can load up Arch Warhammer's channel and not be blasted with neo-nazi fascist capitalist [insert word salad here] propaganda before you realize that people are just calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with them bad names to try and minimize their reach and silence dissent. It's a form of cancel culture, and it only works if you care about being called "toxic" to begin with.
Yup. But if the lore is so darned pointless then why is it so darned important to "fix" it?
You're going to get more women wargamers at the same rate and for the same reasons you get more "normal" men to adopt the hobby. As science fiction and fantasy become less stigmatized more than just "the nerds" will engage in science fiction and fantasy hobbies. Like it or not the vast majority of nerds are white/asian/indian men.
Growing up I played D&D and WoD tabletop rpgs, and specifically Vampire the Masquerade had so many more women it was crazy. I don't remember any girls in my d&d parties and almost gender parity in VtM, looking back there were many reasons it was socially permissible for them in a way D&D wasn't: it was common for girls to be into vampires at the time, the game styled itself as more artsy and acting/drama related than a tactical combat simulator, the goth style was popular to others, etc.
So the board game renaissance and hollywood superhero movies are doing more for diversity in our hobbies than representation in the rulebooks that none of the target audience is actually reading.
Save the political preaching and responses to such for other topics.
There's no actual reason for Space Marines to be exclusively male: it's not like the game is doing a deep introspective look at masculinity or brotherhood or whatever. They wouldn't even look different til they took the helmet off.
1)More female guard. Guard need more than Cadian models and more models.
2)Basically you can mix gender everyone but necrons and probably won't do space marines because reasons. Whatever. Oh and Orks. Because they are actually genderless mushroom things anyway. There mom was a spore. There dad was a spore.
Edit: Chaos cultist need more models/new models. Mix genders there would rock. Also give me Bile's creations. They would be neat.
Older fluff for jokes
I am fine with keeping Space Marines male. As all the stuff they do to them leaves them no longer human
Just the lack of female heads for imperial guard is insulting. Eldar have a female body for guardians a bumpy body but not really a bare head Dark eldar have both.
THe Traitor guard in blackstone have female models the genestealers have females! I don't know what is the time it takes from desgin to on the shelf. In the Jes Goodwin interview they did when they asked him about the Phobos marines he quiped it was years ago as he riffiled though his notebook
This is why I was thinking stuff with Bile. There are lore folks that may not be pure marines but they can hold their own verse marines one vs. one in his books that work for him.
So did Primaris Marines. If GW eventually work female Marines into the fluff, how does it harm you in any way?
They are the flagship faction and insisting it needs to be no girls allowed is like saying the Avengers can’t have women on the team but it’s okay cause there’s one Marvel movie with a female lead.
Either there should be women or the flagship faction should be one that has women in it. It sucks that none of the starter boxes have a single bit of female rep and if you think inclusiveness ruins the hobby then yeah, that IS a pretty toxic attitude to have.
Representation matters
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
It isn't like the models have to look signficantly different too, add some bare female space marine heads. This is what they did with the stormcast eternals and it works out perfectly. I even bought one of the real cheap easy build stormcast sets with the female had that has like half her head shaved to make her a wolf lord for my space wolves cause space wolves having female space marines seems like such a space wolves thing.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I read through the social gentrification article, and I think that’s the perceived harm: that more inclusion into social circles could end with alienating the “real nerds” who were put there because they have poor social skills. That being said I don’t agree with that article on two points: the first is ideologically: the analogy of social gentrification doesn’t align with actual gentrification, or more importantly the negative effects of it: it’s a relatively difficult and complex problem for a poor urban family to increase their wealth to that of the middle class. Whereas changing behavior to be more socially acceptable is both easier and more simple. In the words of R.W. Wheaton “don’t be a dick.” The second more practical point is that these social spaces that are “gentrified” don’t push nerds away from them: the gaming groups are by and large in insular face-to-face affairs. Your friend-group’s character isn’t defined or changed by the games you play but rather the other way around. The comic book and card shops that we played in 20 years ago are still welcoming to the “real nerd” crowd today, and much improved by the addition of more inclusive marketing strategies like regular cleaning and gaming event schedules.
The store I play 40K at which is a pretty huge store with one room for product, one for gaming, and another area with more paint products and tables to actually paint at. They sell basically everything tabletop: board games, RPGs, war games, etc. This store in particular is extremely good about making sure everyone feels welcome. Every now and then a group has an event after the store closes at 6pm for ladies night gaming. They also provide free tampons and pads in the bathrooms at the store. The customer service could be slightly better cause sometimes they employees make me feel like I'm inconveniencing them when I ask them about stock but besides that it is a great store.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
You don't need to answer this question in the thread, it's just something I want you to think about.
I’ve spent about a thousand on the new SoB range already. When I finally get into AoS I plan to go with Sigmarites specifically because the fantasy space marines have women now.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I don't think people need to buy models to show they want more representation for female models. Especially if it is out of their faction. Like the whole point is so people can buy them in their own faction.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Every year when they do the surveys. And when I have met them at NoVA.
I picked up the army box, and played a 400 point game with just it against 400 points of custodes and got my shit rocked. The Cannonness with a Blessed Blade and an extra attack was a blender though.
I picked up the Hospitalier and I'll be putting a Rhino together soon, but I'm not sure where to go from there yet.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
None of it mattered, in the very same peer group, the same high school RPG club, the girls actively playing VtM considered D&D some nerdy nonsense and had zero interest in playing it.
Iron Man has done more to get women interested in space marines than female space marines ever would, and insisting that the "flagship faction" must include women serves only to antagonize the gentlemen who are deeply invested in the fiction and make a spectacle of how great an "ally" you are.
I could easily just counter that by pointing out my own anecdotal evidence: since 3e and especially since the modern era of gaming and the push towards inclusiveness, I have seen WAY more women at gaming conventions, playing in local groups, and showing up in my local stores. I also have personally seen a bunch of women over the last couple years wander into the local GW store and express disappointment at the lack of female models, and lose interest.
And the problem with those “deeply invested in the fiction” is that the have never actually given a reason as to why it’s a problem for the story to have someone figure out how to make female space marines. I have yet to hear a solid explanation as to why it can’t actually ever happen in the lore, and the insistence that it can’t always ends up implying that a war that lasts thousands of years wouldn’t lead to the people in charge trying to make their weapons better, when actual war always inspires technological and scientific breakthoughs when it comes to improving them.
Female space marines can easily be done without changing or retconning the lore. It’s simply another chapter in a story, another cog in the war machine. As if there wouldn’t be plenty of key figureheads that wouldn’t love to double the pool of potential marines.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
"Marines++" is a far cry from "Female Marines," and Marines++ was a HUGELY contentious change that even to this day a large segment of the community hates, but ignoring that:
If they don't make the change, how does the lack of representation harm others in any way?
If it doesn't matter either way, then why the push to make the change?
If it's just being changed because it bothers someone that it exists in the way that it currently exists, that's not a valid reason to make the change.
There's a push to make this change from external forces because certain activist types are offended by a male only faction, and offended at an overwhelmingly male fanbase of the game. There's no similar demand for "Male Sisters of Battle," for example, nor a demand that GW make Female Orks, or Female Necrons. Odd, that. It's only the symbolic victory of forcing the playerbase to accept Female Space Marines that keeps getting brought up. So darned odd.
I'm sorry, I must have missed where the GW website requires you submit verification of your sex before buying a Space Marine boxed set? Is this different for women? I mean did they just know I was male because of my cookies or social media presence and not demand verification?
Oh wait, it's not "no girls allowed" at all, is it?
Tossing in token female characters isn't "inclusiveness." When ADB makes sure that his cast is X amount of Y race and always has at least Z amount of LGBT characters, which he has bragged about doing on social media, that's not being inclusive. That's tokenism. I'm old enough to remember when that was a bad thing, way back before the woke decided to try and play word games and redefine things.
As for "representation matters" -- no, it literally doesn't. They've done the studies on this, and ignoring the "diversity is a virtue" thing that's taken on faith, there's this absurd myth coming from the more insane sects of academia that you are the media you consume, and thus you need to see representation of yourself in your toys, yadda yadda. "Girls who don't have female characters to identify with are harmed" is just as absurd as "video games make you violent." It's the same broken premise, the same bad studies.
The Space Marines could be bunny rabbits for all I care, and it wouldn't harm anyone.
I use that specific example because that was the name of the paper by Adrienne Shaw that covered this -- "He could be a bunny rabbit for all I care." The result she found was that people do not identify with their characters, so diversity in characters in gaming doesn't matter. Representation doesn't matter.
The Space Marines could be bunny rabbits for all I'd care. (Actually, something like "Samurai Yojimbo in Mk4 Power Armor" would be kinda cool.)
But they're not bunny rabbits. And they're not female.
Yup. Representation is a myth, but it's held as a near religious belief to certain sects of academia and activism.
As for Iron Man, yup. There's a reason why the Gravis Armor in the 8e Boxed Set has clear Iron Man influences. (I suspect that's why he's not available outside of the box / they haven't done other characters in standalone Gravis armor, actually. A polite email from Marvel complaining, an apology, yadda yadda?)
Yeah I’m not gonna touch that. Enjoy your gatekeeping.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
As to insulting lore traditionalists, it's pretty clear from your very reasoning in that post. First you decide to do something for misguided political reasons, then you search for an in-context justification. That sort of thing is always going to annoy fans of a work, and while I personally stick to just reading the codices, I can respect the emotional investment put in by the guys reading all 50+ of those terrible Horus Heresy novels, etc.
I'm really glad for plastic Sisters models because I already own an all-metal Sisters army and the new kits are fantastic, but I've seen zero women start the hobby because of them. The only women wargaming in the places I frequent are playing Age of Sigmar ...as the all-male zeppelin Dwarves and all-male (I guess?) undead ghosts.
I should have realized this wasn’t a conversation worth having the moment I saw someone put the word woke in scare quotes like representation was some boogeyman to be hated and feared. Byeeeeee
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog