"Ok everyone, we need some bold new ideas for our next special character. Something, unique, memorable. Something that people haven't seen before. Any ideas?"
"How about...and bare with me on this, what if, they were jumping off a rock? Maybe an aquila, or a bit of eldar ruins?"
"Brilliant, whack it in CAD and let's ship it."
"Ghazghkull already has a super classic design, and his relatively ancient model is still pretty popular. What do we do to update him for modern 40k while respecting his iconic look?"
"...Double the amount of machine guns stuck to his arm?"
"You're getting a raise."
This fits in with orc canon though
+10
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Ghaz' new design is great, but at first glance it looks like he's about to fall over. I feel like he needs to be leaning into his elevated leg, not away from it.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited March 2020
@Lanlaorn I'm not trying to bring the fight back up, but I wanted to respond to your last post and clarify something a little bit, so please bear with me for a moment.
When I say someone is gatekeeping, I'm not saying they are a sexist pig, or a horrible person. Gatekeeping is like a form of systemic discrimination in that it's mostly not done out of a conscious intent of hostility, but just a reflexive behavior because that's how things were and people don't like change. That's what can be so hard about that kind of thing though, because you have to get people thinking about the issue even when it doesn't personally affect them, so that they reexamine how the little things they do contribute to a larger overall atmosphere. But society has made words like discrimination into such inflammatory things, that people flip out and act like they're being called the Devil when someone might just be trying to point out that they're being uncool without realizing it. And I guess we can add gatekeeping to that list.
I haven't had much direct interaction with you or most of the people who were on the other side of this latest round of the argument, but I've been around these forums for over 5 years now, and lord knows you all have been here longer than I. I know you guys aren't bad people, and I'm not trying to castigate anyone or get them shunned. I didn't swear off Penny Arcade when Gabe responded to the dickwolf controversy very badly (I still think the comic itself was fine), nor when he responded poorly to people calling him out for saying something anti-trans on twitter that one time. Because I know he's not a 'rape apologist' as some of the more extreme responses accused. For one thing, the joke of the comic was that because of game mechanics the werewolf hero, a literal monster, is also a figurative monster since he's abandoning a rape victim, which is the opposite of making light of the act. And I might well have said similar anti-trans things back when I was a teen despite not really being cisgendered myself. We all make mistakes and do bad things sooner or later.
But I also don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out when I think someone is doing something uncool, or pointing out that their arguments don't match their claimed position.
There is zero reason why the lore, which is contradictory at best, can't be changed so that you can now get female primaris space marines.
There is zero reason why any decades old piece of fundamental lore for any franchise can't be changed.
I think Batman should be asian and shoot criminals with a shotgun. Don't make that face, it's just lore.
Nobody is arguing that GW should retcon marines to always having always had females.
They are arguing that GW should say that Cawl's techno-sorcery has allowed for the creation of female space marines from now on with his new method. I can't see any lore reason why that shouldn't be possible.
Part of creating Astartes - the first step - is a precisely tailored, overwhelming hormone regime. It's explicitly why they recruit from children around eleven or younger, on the cusp of puberty, but not after; the body's natural processes throw it far enough off baseline that the treatments don't work.
This does mean that you could, in theory, have AFAB Marines. They'd just still end up looking like Rogal Dorn. Because that's what happens when you shove someone through biochemical processes designed to add grotesque height and muscle mass. It's entirely possible there are female Astartes right now. How would you know?
At any rate, gendering Astartes is... odd. By the time they get the black carapace, they're no longer even really male. They're no longer human. They're sterile, asexual, brainwashed, incapable of fear or love. (I'd have sworn that old lore had them being castrated, but I can't find it now.) Their previous identity is psychically and hypnotically stripped away and replaced with The Chapter. Baseline humanity finds them terrifying and/or repulsive. They are monsters, fashioned out of children who survived The Hunger Games, enslaved to an uncaring, dead god, whose sole purpose is to kill. "But representation" is... rather missing the point.
And from a practical perspective? It's extraordinarily difficult to make a model read as female from the tabletop without wasp-waisting or boob plate, both of which I feel confident people who desire more representation would also not be a big fan of. Severina Raine gets thrown around a lot, but honestly the model just looks androgynous. Feminine heads won't be distinguishable as such from a distance farther away than your nose, and if you really want to do that headswaps with AoS or Sisters models are about the lowest possible bar to conversion.
Don't worry, I never get upset over an argument, everyone wants what's right and fair and just disagrees in their perspectives. I do feel that while pointing out those uncool things you should be mindful that perhaps you're just misinterpreting those actions as uncool. I'd definitely file unconscious gatekeeping in that category, any narrative that goes "So your words and actions say one thing, but your preference for this style of art reveals you are secretly a villain" is immediately suspect in my mind. There's just no argument against that, the accused either apologizes for their Original Sin and converts to adopt your dogma or proves themself to be "problematic" when resisting your very thesis.
It's just so tiring when everything is a purity test. You mention forum history, Debate & Discourse is more like "Post News and Agree", we can't even have a democratic primary thread last longer than two days because it's too divisive...
But anyway whatever, this is all too far afield for the 40k thread and I'm happier just ignoring it.
"Ok everyone, we need some bold new ideas for our next special character. Something, unique, memorable. Something that people haven't seen before. Any ideas?"
"How about...and bare with me on this, what if, they were jumping off a rock? Maybe an aquila, or a bit of eldar ruins?"
"Brilliant, whack it in CAD and let's ship it."
"Ghazghkull already has a super classic design, and his relatively ancient model is still pretty popular. What do we do to update him for modern 40k while respecting his iconic look?"
"...Double the amount of machine guns stuck to his arm?"
Also looks like a new Fabius Bile. Skin coat and an assistant with Black Carapace ports.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
+9
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
4 pages of the lady space marines argument and not one mention of Death of Hope pt1 dropping on youtube. not gonna link it as its hella NSFW for grimdark. apart from a passive-aggressive opening crawl its a solid effort. plenty of fanservice and it looks awesome.
4 pages of the lady space marines argument and not one mention of Death of Hope pt1 dropping on youtube. not gonna link it as its hella NSFW for grimdark. apart from a passive-aggressive opening crawl its a solid effort. plenty of fanservice and it looks awesome.
Tried watching it. Eh.
It looked visually good and also NSFW as hell, but it had no flow to me and was pretty long for not having a flow / having characters, really.
I presume we'll be following the Ultramarine, but he was barely in it.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Ok that was a bit dismissive so i went back and watched the whole thing.
Visuals were stunning, aesthetic was excellent (loved the rogue trader style Eldar) but whoof, get that guy an editor. And a writer too, probably.
Just finished magnetizing a combi-melta/combi-plasma so I can swap them out for my Deathwatch Kill Team. Wasn't sure it was possible, so it's very cool to see it actually work.
+3
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Goonhammer has commentary on the new Primaris Ragnar and Ghaz models. Is hilarious.
TheChirurgeon: The moment I learned there was going to be a new Primaris Ragnar model, my literal first thought was “I wonder what he’s going to be jumping off of?”
Ok, is the low hanging (heh) fruit, but is too easy:
TheChirurgeon: Ah, there we go. We’ve reached the moment it becomes parody. There is literally no reason for Ghaz to be perched on anything but someone couldn’t help themselves.
Goonhammer has commentary on the new Primaris Ragnar and Ghaz models. Is hilarious.
TheChirurgeon: The moment I learned there was going to be a new Primaris Ragnar model, my literal first thought was “I wonder what he’s going to be jumping off of?”
Ok, is the low hanging (heh) fruit, but is too easy:
TheChirurgeon: Ah, there we go. We’ve reached the moment it becomes parody. There is literally no reason for Ghaz to be perched on anything but someone couldn’t help themselves.
Servalen, the enforcer Null looks fantastic. GW has become really good with faces lately. (See sororitas)
Face and hair reminds we quite a bit of Sylvia Hoeks as Love in BR 2049.
Like all Warhammer stuff, it'll be a smorgasbord of mixed influences. Tough female psy-cop Enforcer is clearly going to have some Judge Anderson in there as well, though they've inverted the psychic angle and made her a Null.
Ok that was a bit dismissive so i went back and watched the whole thing.
Visuals were stunning, aesthetic was excellent (loved the rogue trader style Eldar) but whoof, get that guy an editor. And a writer too, probably.
its a mixed bag. not sure why you'd pick a fight with modern GW. part of the joy of 40k is that it fits everything from heroic bolter porn to grimdark misery.
on the plus side
mk1 terminator!
mad max haircuts
well designed unarmoured marines
makes a good stab at showing how horrific life on a chaos vessel is. i enjoyed the demons phasing in and out especially.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
@Gabriel_Pitt did Ragnar better
(seriously though i want Primaris Ragnar so baaaad)
Wow, praise from Caesar! I'm humbled!
I mean, it's a dynamic model all right, but another screamy-leapy-pointy character, especially one waiting for an update for so long, isn't all that thrilling. Maybe diorama him and Ghaz up and the poses compliment each other, but stand alone, alas.
Maybe we need to invite the GW design team into the next secret santa exchange so that the Christmas Spirit can infuse them with 'I really got to put effort into making this look _good_!'
Looks like Adepticon is being canceled. So the reveal is as well.
Not surprising, but disappointing. I was all set to have a hell of a time at the Anime Central tabletop gaming events this year, but while they haven't canceled it yet, no way a 20,000+ international convention is going to be happening. I had figured that most international travelers and most certainly guests would be canceling trips, and that was even before we started getting arbitrary 'surprise! You get a travel ban' announcements.
Posts
You could say that.
(seriously though i want Primaris Ragnar so baaaad)
This fits in with orc canon though
When I say someone is gatekeeping, I'm not saying they are a sexist pig, or a horrible person. Gatekeeping is like a form of systemic discrimination in that it's mostly not done out of a conscious intent of hostility, but just a reflexive behavior because that's how things were and people don't like change. That's what can be so hard about that kind of thing though, because you have to get people thinking about the issue even when it doesn't personally affect them, so that they reexamine how the little things they do contribute to a larger overall atmosphere. But society has made words like discrimination into such inflammatory things, that people flip out and act like they're being called the Devil when someone might just be trying to point out that they're being uncool without realizing it. And I guess we can add gatekeeping to that list.
I haven't had much direct interaction with you or most of the people who were on the other side of this latest round of the argument, but I've been around these forums for over 5 years now, and lord knows you all have been here longer than I. I know you guys aren't bad people, and I'm not trying to castigate anyone or get them shunned. I didn't swear off Penny Arcade when Gabe responded to the dickwolf controversy very badly (I still think the comic itself was fine), nor when he responded poorly to people calling him out for saying something anti-trans on twitter that one time. Because I know he's not a 'rape apologist' as some of the more extreme responses accused. For one thing, the joke of the comic was that because of game mechanics the werewolf hero, a literal monster, is also a figurative monster since he's abandoning a rape victim, which is the opposite of making light of the act. And I might well have said similar anti-trans things back when I was a teen despite not really being cisgendered myself. We all make mistakes and do bad things sooner or later.
But I also don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out when I think someone is doing something uncool, or pointing out that their arguments don't match their claimed position.
So, no hard feelings?
Part of creating Astartes - the first step - is a precisely tailored, overwhelming hormone regime. It's explicitly why they recruit from children around eleven or younger, on the cusp of puberty, but not after; the body's natural processes throw it far enough off baseline that the treatments don't work.
This does mean that you could, in theory, have AFAB Marines. They'd just still end up looking like Rogal Dorn. Because that's what happens when you shove someone through biochemical processes designed to add grotesque height and muscle mass. It's entirely possible there are female Astartes right now. How would you know?
At any rate, gendering Astartes is... odd. By the time they get the black carapace, they're no longer even really male. They're no longer human. They're sterile, asexual, brainwashed, incapable of fear or love. (I'd have sworn that old lore had them being castrated, but I can't find it now.) Their previous identity is psychically and hypnotically stripped away and replaced with The Chapter. Baseline humanity finds them terrifying and/or repulsive. They are monsters, fashioned out of children who survived The Hunger Games, enslaved to an uncaring, dead god, whose sole purpose is to kill. "But representation" is... rather missing the point.
And from a practical perspective? It's extraordinarily difficult to make a model read as female from the tabletop without wasp-waisting or boob plate, both of which I feel confident people who desire more representation would also not be a big fan of. Severina Raine gets thrown around a lot, but honestly the model just looks androgynous. Feminine heads won't be distinguishable as such from a distance farther away than your nose, and if you really want to do that headswaps with AoS or Sisters models are about the lowest possible bar to conversion.
It's just so tiring when everything is a purity test. You mention forum history, Debate & Discourse is more like "Post News and Agree", we can't even have a democratic primary thread last longer than two days because it's too divisive...
But anyway whatever, this is all too far afield for the 40k thread and I'm happier just ignoring it.
And Ork cannon.
The dead live through alchemy!
Wyld runners hunt the underhive
and Kitties!
yeah, "The Spider" is either Bile, or a bile cosplayer
Well he did clone himself after he learned some tricks from the haemonculi
And that's great because his old model is looking pretty rough these days.
Figuratively and literally in the case of the zombie ones.
Tried watching it. Eh.
It looked visually good and also NSFW as hell, but it had no flow to me and was pretty long for not having a flow / having characters, really.
I presume we'll be following the Ultramarine, but he was barely in it.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
YES!
I AM EXCITED!
Also with more thought that is a vat born assistant not a gland hound. But maybe...
Visuals were stunning, aesthetic was excellent (loved the rogue trader style Eldar) but whoof, get that guy an editor. And a writer too, probably.
Goonhammer has commentary on the new Primaris Ragnar and Ghaz models. Is hilarious. Ok, is the low hanging (heh) fruit, but is too easy:
I mean, they're not wrong
Servalen, the enforcer Null looks fantastic. GW has become really good with faces lately. (See sororitas)
Face and hair reminds we quite a bit of Sylvia Hoeks as Love in BR 2049.
its a mixed bag. not sure why you'd pick a fight with modern GW. part of the joy of 40k is that it fits everything from heroic bolter porn to grimdark misery.
on the plus side
mk1 terminator!
mad max haircuts
well designed unarmoured marines
makes a good stab at showing how horrific life on a chaos vessel is. i enjoyed the demons phasing in and out especially.
Boo hiss
I mean, it's a dynamic model all right, but another screamy-leapy-pointy character, especially one waiting for an update for so long, isn't all that thrilling. Maybe diorama him and Ghaz up and the poses compliment each other, but stand alone, alas.
Maybe we need to invite the GW design team into the next secret santa exchange so that the Christmas Spirit can infuse them with 'I really got to put effort into making this look _good_!'
Or maybe I'm thinking of egg nog.
Not surprising, but disappointing. I was all set to have a hell of a time at the Anime Central tabletop gaming events this year, but while they haven't canceled it yet, no way a 20,000+ international convention is going to be happening. I had figured that most international travelers and most certainly guests would be canceling trips, and that was even before we started getting arbitrary 'surprise! You get a travel ban' announcements.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do an online reveal or something. Events are likely going to be off for a while.
Actually, where did you hear this from? The Adepticon webpage, per their update yesterday, says the exact opposite.