Maybe give your Air monks an additional option for Gust that is "a blast of wind that kicks up ambient grit and debris, scouring one target within range for [normal cantrip scaling] damage". Probably DEX or CON save prevents, but could be attack roll.
Maybe give your Air monks an additional option for Gust that is "a blast of wind that kicks up ambient grit and debris, scouring one target within range for [normal cantrip scaling] damage". Probably DEX or CON save prevents, but could be attack roll.
Maybe give it 1d4 damage scaling, with a strength/dex check against getting knocked prone? Keeps the Air monks flavor of being more about movement than offense, while still giving an attack cantrip that could potentially combo into some nastiness.
Edit: Or maybe it gives the monk a burst of movement? 10 feet of flight, doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. Similar to the Storm Soul sorcerer lvl 1, but doesn't eat the bonus action (since casting the spell already takes a full action).
So we finished a level 3 one-shot earlier and holy fuck the echo knight is cool. Our DM lets us take a feat at first level, and I also chose variant human so for my two feats I chose tough and heavy armor master, and I put 16 into my str and con so I had 37 hp and could hit like a dump truck. Plus the echo let me move around the battlefield and choose where and who I would attack, and the DM didn't ever know what I was going to do. Using the unleash incarnation AND action surge let me hit two different people twice, killing both (lucky rolls on my part). I was just a straight up whirlwind of murder, and the echo was also helpful for some sneaky bits too.
Oh, and our party's wood elf rogue turned out to be a drow level 2 warlock, level 1 rogue. He had a blowgun with poisoned darts, and he kept using the message cantrip to try and distract people while stealing and/or murdering them. Very cool once we figured out he wasn't just a "half blind wood elf that preferred nighttime" and that he also had magic powers.
But Thunderclap is right there for an Air-themed damage cantrip.
I'm using thunderclap thunderwave and shatter for earth monk abilities (but Shatter has to be on the ground), I haven't based air around doing a lot of damage.
The basis is Avatar the last airbender, with one notable exception... lightning but... hrmmm. For those thunder spells, think of all the times a structure is destroyed by an Earthbender slamming their foot on the ground and creating a shockwave.
Changes to philosophy: No more teleports, no lightning spells (apart from storm sphere because, duh), and incredible defensive options in the form of Shield at the low end and Resilient Sphere at the high end, for picturing how these actually look, think of all the times Aang threw off an attack with a gust of air, and for Resilient Sphere, the bubble from the last episode:
Using two dunamancy spells to replicate two effects of airbenders: a massive pressure wave (Pulse Wave), and the ability to create a localized vacuum (Sapping Sting is con save or 1d4 damage and prone)
although I am waffling hard on leaving Lightning Bolt in there, I really like Lighting Bolt and like to give it to as many classes as possible
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
yeaaah lightning is an actual element in D&D and should be more represented. I wonder if Dragon's Breath, Lightning (Self) for 2nd and Lightning bolt are good options. Although now that I've added pulse wave I kinda wanna leave it. Maybe ditching Haste, which is really good, but perhaps not *that* fitting
Edit: I'm doing too much second guessing, it's Water, Earth, Fire, Air. Call Lightning actually makes more sense than lightning bolt. If the monk can still use Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows after using an action to channel a spell, it would be a really solid pick.
yeaaah lightning is an actual element in D&D and should be more represented. I wonder if Dragon's Breath, Lightning (Self) for 2nd and Lightning bolt are good options. Although now that I've added pulse wave I kinda wanna leave it. Maybe ditching Haste, which is really good, but perhaps not *that* fitting
Edit: I'm doing too much second guessing, it's Water, Earth, Fire, Air. Call Lightning actually makes more sense than lightning bolt. If the monk can still use Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows after using an action to channel a spell, it would be a really solid pick.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
Maybe manipulating the magnetic properties of the earth and the individual's body to propel them into the air?
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
What? No that's not right at all. Wan's story showed explicitly that trying to hold all four bending disciplines at once would tear a person's body apart, even with the help of the spirit of light. He had to pull in the energy of a once-every-10,000-years cosmic event to fully merge with the Avatar spirit and hold all four disciplines.
The bits of stuff we're 1. There is wisdom that each bending group can draw from the others to become stronger in their own discipline; and B: some folks can push the boundaries of their discipline, like bending molten earth, but that doesn't mean Bolin was a firebender. He could just bend earth in a form that other people couldn't.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
Earth benders can defy the gravity around rocks. Rocks are minerals. Your body, and anything really, could be described as being made of minerals. I could at least see them leaping massive distances, though they might struggle to full on levitate. I mean earth bending is gravity bending, basically. Again, this is all assuming you’re using the Avatar universe.
Could do major leaps by using the earth/rocks as bouncy plates, just bend them to launch you and then have a bit of earth/rocks catch you where you land.
If you're looking for a different look for a wind-based monk society thing, I really loved Zephyr Sanctum in Guild Wars 2. Bazaar of the Four Winds was blew me away.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
Earth benders can defy the gravity around rocks. Rocks are minerals. Your body, and anything really, could be described as being made of minerals. I could at least see them leaping massive distances, though they might struggle to full on levitate. I mean earth bending is gravity bending, basically. Again, this is all assuming you’re using the Avatar universe.
I don't have an answer for you on the gravity defying earthbending effects. I will say though, with no concrete reason, that flight is too high a hurdle for me to get over. Also, thematically, earth bending/monks would be tied to the ground, you know? Solid. Stable. None of this namby pamby floating around in the sky bullshit. Using a rock to catapult you over a long distance? OK. I got you. Flight? No sir. Not for me.
lightning in D&D is definitely the realm of the plane of air, so its avatar themed but still tied to the elemental planes so I kind of want to stick to that for ability list
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I'm very much paying attention here because I want Avatar monks in my homebrew campaign too.
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
Earth benders can defy the gravity around rocks. Rocks are minerals. Your body, and anything really, could be described as being made of minerals. I could at least see them leaping massive distances, though they might struggle to full on levitate. I mean earth bending is gravity bending, basically. Again, this is all assuming you’re using the Avatar universe.
I don't have an answer for you on the gravity defying earthbending effects. I will say though, with no concrete reason, that flight is too high a hurdle for me to get over. Also, thematically, earth bending/monks would be tied to the ground, you know? Solid. Stable. None of this namby pamby floating around in the sky bullshit. Using a rock to catapult you over a long distance? OK. I got you. Flight? No sir. Not for me.
Sorry I don’t think I got across what I meant, I just think a 20th level monk should see beyond the divides, and that both an air monk and fire monk could have a path that progresses to lightning, not that a regular earth dude should have flight.
for capstone I'm pretty sure I'm just going to do an avatar state thing where they get all the investitures and can access all 4 of their spell lists at once for a set amount of time
for capstone I'm pretty sure I'm just going to do an avatar state thing where they get all the investitures and can access all 4 of their spell lists at once for a set amount of time
My Ravenloft DM is having....issues.... with the 6th level Hexblade ability to bind the soul of some poor bastard I just killed into a Spectre that loyally serves me until after my next long rest. Alright, I get it. Binding souls of the dead to anyone other than Strahd is a non starter. I get it. Its Ravenloft and I don't get to play with Spectres. Fair ball.
I tried to refluff it into a suit of Animated Armor (I'm RPing as if my Hexblade abilities are gifted from a Celestial Patron Angel of Whatever. And the armor is representative of his boon as my PC does that good good work) with everything else the same. Still a no go. He's got a problem with anything being summoned into Ravenloft. His reasoning is that Strahd and the Mists control what comes in and out of his realm. Not some Angel from a few planes away.
He offered to give me +1d8 damage on my attacks in lieu of a spectre. I said that wasn't equivalent as its pretty much the same as a Green Flame Blade cantrip, and not a 6th level core ability. But I'm kinda at a loss at something equivalent to the utility of having an ally for the rest of the day who can watch over our rest and aint too shabby in a fight.
I mean, what if it was just a part of the character?
1. Your shadow becomes an ally, taking on a material form. While it’s active you cast no shadow.
2. Your patron sent a celestial warrior to you long ago, which is bonded to your very soul. It can leap out to aid you, but sustains itself inside your heart.
3. Your body is inked with a magical tattoo of a beast, likewise it can pop off for a bit but must return to you.
4. You have a necklace with a tin knight on it. It becomes that animated armour you were on about.
5. You’re so dang fast you’re in two places at once!
I mean, what if it was just a part of the character?
1. Your shadow becomes an ally, taking on a material form. While it’s active you cast no shadow.
2. Your patron sent a celestial warrior to you long ago, which is bonded to your very soul. It can leap out to aid you, but sustains itself inside your heart.
3. Your body is inked with a magical tattoo of a beast, likewise it can pop off for a bit but must return to you.
4. You have a necklace with a tin knight on it. It becomes that animated armour you were on about.
5. You’re so dang fast you’re in two places at once!
Shadow is definitely not going to fly. Using another's soul is even worse. Tattoo might be something we can discuss? A necklace is just something he'll take away from me, effectively nursing a class ability that shouldn't need a focus.
He's been running homebrewed Ravenloft since 3e and he has particular ideas about control/travel, who gets to use and manipulate souls/necromancy, and who has domination over the undead. I really don't want to fight him on this....but neither do I want to have a nerfed 6th level ability, especially considering this campaign might not go past 12th level.
I'm looking now at just giving up Accursed Spectre and swapping it entirely for the Defy Death 6th level ability from the Undying One Patron.
The spectre doesn't need to, mechanically, be a spectre or a soul. Maybe it's an arcane echo of the thoughts and feelings of the person, nothing more. Like the Echo Knight's thing?
Something like that is not in any way undead or a spirit, it's pure arcane creation, maybe flavoring it as something like that would float your DM's boat? If they'd be okay with that, just use the spectre's stats but change its type to Construct. For PHB similar magic point to the Simulacrum spell - a construct of a creature that does not have a soul, this would just be a less substantial version of that
The spectre doesn't need to, mechanically, be a spectre or a soul. Maybe it's an arcane echo of the thoughts and feelings of the person, nothing more. Like the Echo Knight's thing?
Something like that is not in any way undead or a spirit, it's pure arcane creation, maybe flavoring it as something like that would float your DM's boat? If they'd be okay with that, just use the spectre's stats but change its type to Construct. For PHB similar magic point to the Simulacrum spell - a construct of a creature that does not have a soul, this would just be a less substantial version of that
I don't think he'll go for anything resembling the use of a soul or spirit, no matter how much we obfuscate it. I don't agree with his position but I get it. Undead bad. Players no get undead toys.
I've just sent another text asking for clarification of his objection to the Animated Armor. I think we can get past this impasse, we just need to phrase it properly.
It’s funny, because I reckon Curse of Dracula’s Cousin lends itself to having dark characters. The DM can say, look, here’s you. This was your end goal when you signed up to be a necromancer, wasn’t it? Don’t you want to ruin lives? Don’t you want to spend a lonely immortality isolated, master of nowhere? How aren’t you like him, then?
Sounds like your DM probably should have just not let you pick hexblade if anything dark or spoopy is off limits
We had a good talk this afternoon and have come to an accord!
Its not so much that as it is I've talked up that my PC is an agent of an Angel of Lost Causes, fighting the good fight that nobody else wants to fight. I'm RPing a Celestial patron but using the mechanics of the Hexblade. He doesn't think the Spectre part jives with the rest of it, especially in Ravenloft. And I'm totally cool with that. I'm reasonably sure if I was playing a "Straight" Hexblade and leaning into the darker aspects of the class he would have nixed it.
WRT his overall feelings about Ravenloft: He's very much playing into the "this place is awful and the longer one is here, the more awful they become". He wants the icky dark stuff to be the purview of the DM only and the heroes to be these shining beacons of light dumped in this horrible place. I assume he wants to slowly wear down the PC's idealism with the ennui of Ravenloft. To that end, any usage of the "dark powers" (read: evil or evil adjacent), will only hasten our tarnishment. His similar, but not quite the same reluctance to allow for summonsy type stuff is that any normal, fey or celestial creature summoned to Ravenloft will be trapped here with no way back past the mists and therefore resent and rebel against the summoner. Forcing it to happen is an inherently evil act and will hasten our tarnishment. Casting find familiar or steed will result in an undead version of arriving instead of a celestial one, etc.
Our accord has been that we've talked specifically about constructs and how they have no bound or borrowed spirit/soul, but instead animated by pure magical nonsense. So he's letting he have the tweaked version of Accursed Spectre as is, but instead of a Spectre its back to my idea of a suit of Animated Armor, and as I mentioned fluffed to be a more angelic version reminiscent of Patron's physical form. Yay for understanding and agreement!
I'm going to miss being able do insubstantial shenanigans though.
Do they similarly have a problem with the other summon spells? Conjure Animals, Elementals, Fey, Undead, ect?
It hasn't come up, but I'm going to say yes. Luckily none of us are playing a druid
When i DMd CoS, i allowed summon spells but it could only be denizens of Barovia (i.e. no elephants or gorrilas or whatever). And they'd always look screwed up, mangy, etc..
I actually went through the available spells from A-Z and think what, if any, would end up modified.
Then nobody in the party ended up casting summon does anyway.
They learned early on that any kind of teleport (including misty step) does psychic damage to the caster and force damage to whomever or whatever is being teleported. The larger the distance, the more dmg. Planar travel attempts were many d20s iirc and then you'd end up in a random location in Barovia. But nobody tried it :biggrin:
It’s funny, because I reckon Curse of Dracula’s Cousin lends itself to having dark characters. The DM can say, look, here’s you. This was your end goal when you signed up to be a necromancer, wasn’t it? Don’t you want to ruin lives? Don’t you want to spend a lonely immortality isolated, master of nowhere? How aren’t you like him, then?
I think my DM would rather he turned us dark, rather than us getting there ourselves and ruining his fun.
Sounds like your DM probably should have just not let you pick hexblade if anything dark or spoopy is off limits
We had a good talk this afternoon and have come to an accord!
Its not so much that as it is I've talked up that my PC is an agent of an Angel of Lost Causes, fighting the good fight that nobody else wants to fight. I'm RPing a Celestial patron but using the mechanics of the Hexblade. He doesn't think the Spectre part jives with the rest of it, especially in Ravenloft. And I'm totally cool with that. I'm reasonably sure if I was playing a "Straight" Hexblade and leaning into the darker aspects of the class he would have nixed it.
WRT his overall feelings about Ravenloft: He's very much playing into the "this place is awful and the longer one is here, the more awful they become". He wants the icky dark stuff to be the purview of the DM only and the heroes to be these shining beacons of light dumped in this horrible place. I assume he wants to slowly wear down the PC's idealism with the ennui of Ravenloft. To that end, any usage of the "dark powers" (read: evil or evil adjacent), will only hasten our tarnishment. His similar, but not quite the same reluctance to allow for summonsy type stuff is that any normal, fey or celestial creature summoned to Ravenloft will be trapped here with no way back past the mists and therefore resent and rebel against the summoner. Forcing it to happen is an inherently evil act and will hasten our tarnishment. Casting find familiar or steed will result in an undead version of arriving instead of a celestial one, etc.
Our accord has been that we've talked specifically about constructs and how they have no bound or borrowed spirit/soul, but instead animated by pure magical nonsense. So he's letting he have the tweaked version of Accursed Spectre as is, but instead of a Spectre its back to my idea of a suit of Animated Armor, and as I mentioned fluffed to be a more angelic version reminiscent of Patron's physical form. Yay for understanding and agreement!
I'm going to miss being able do insubstantial shenanigans though.
Point on conjure spells, they're not real creatures, they assemble them from bits of fey/elemental spirits
People have emotions in barovia and like, fire works, and they can breath, so on a metaphysical level there have to be fey and elemental spirits within Boriva
So "conjure" spells should work just fine unless your DM isn't even allowing find familiar or find steed, since those are exactly the same (however flavoring them as evil or depressed versions of their true selves makes perfect sense, since these spirits would have been trapped in this dark place for hundreds of years and any physical form you give them could reflect that)
Do they similarly have a problem with the other summon spells? Conjure Animals, Elementals, Fey, Undead, ect?
It hasn't come up, but I'm going to say yes. Luckily none of us are playing a druid
When i DMd CoS, i allowed summon spells but it could only be denizens of Barovia (i.e. no elephants or gorrilas or whatever). And they'd always look screwed up, mangy, etc..
I actually went through the available spells from A-Z and think what, if any, would end up modified.
Then nobody in the party ended up casting summon does anyway.
They learned early on that any kind of teleport (including misty step) does psychic damage to the caster and force damage to whomever or whatever is being teleported. The larger the distance, the more dmg. Planar travel attempts were many d20s iirc and then you'd end up in a random location in Barovia. But nobody tried it :biggrin:
Keep in mind you can't leave Barovia, but the ethereal plane is still 100% accessible
Spells like misty step, dimension door, thunder step, and etherealness should work just fine - same with things like bags of holding and mordenkainen's magnificent mansion (this is literally a spell the module gives the players access to). The module also tells us that ethereal travel is possible in the spells section under Blink
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Maybe give it 1d4 damage scaling, with a strength/dex check against getting knocked prone? Keeps the Air monks flavor of being more about movement than offense, while still giving an attack cantrip that could potentially combo into some nastiness.
Edit: Or maybe it gives the monk a burst of movement? 10 feet of flight, doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. Similar to the Storm Soul sorcerer lvl 1, but doesn't eat the bonus action (since casting the spell already takes a full action).
It's also on the Earth Monk list.
Oh, and our party's wood elf rogue turned out to be a drow level 2 warlock, level 1 rogue. He had a blowgun with poisoned darts, and he kept using the message cantrip to try and distract people while stealing and/or murdering them. Very cool once we figured out he wasn't just a "half blind wood elf that preferred nighttime" and that he also had magic powers.
I'm using thunderclap thunderwave and shatter for earth monk abilities (but Shatter has to be on the ground), I haven't based air around doing a lot of damage.
The basis is Avatar the last airbender, with one notable exception... lightning but... hrmmm. For those thunder spells, think of all the times a structure is destroyed by an Earthbender slamming their foot on the ground and creating a shockwave.
Changes to philosophy: No more teleports, no lightning spells (apart from storm sphere because, duh), and incredible defensive options in the form of Shield at the low end and Resilient Sphere at the high end, for picturing how these actually look, think of all the times Aang threw off an attack with a gust of air, and for Resilient Sphere, the bubble from the last episode:
Using two dunamancy spells to replicate two effects of airbenders: a massive pressure wave (Pulse Wave), and the ability to create a localized vacuum (Sapping Sting is con save or 1d4 damage and prone)
although I am waffling hard on leaving Lightning Bolt in there, I really like Lighting Bolt and like to give it to as many classes as possible
I'd give thunderwave and that ilk to air monks, myself and not earth. But really its 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. Air should definitely get lighting based spells. How fire benders got lightning never made sense to me in the show.
Edit: I'm doing too much second guessing, it's Water, Earth, Fire, Air. Call Lightning actually makes more sense than lightning bolt. If the monk can still use Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows after using an action to channel a spell, it would be a really solid pick.
Witch bolt a.k.a. force lightening
because fire is the excitement of electrons and lightning is the same but more extreme.
air bending is just moving oxygen atoms.
Also it’s not shown very often but tiny pieces of Avatar lore indicate that a proper understanding of the elements could have any bender type use any given element, they just can’t visualise the connection between them. An air-bender could absolutely freeze water, an earth-bender could make themselves fly etc. The Avatar isn’t isn’t so much master of four elements as much looser in their stance to what bending is.
Really I suppose it’s a case of do you want to separate monks by physics, or by sky, earth, ocean, and magma.
A sky monk would for sure have air and lightning powers.
Avatar doesn't really use science as a basis for bending the elements though. Fire bending was learned from Dragons, Earth from Badgermoles, Air from Sky Bisons and Water from the Moon. I view lightning falling more into the realm between air and water as its the positive-negative charges between water vapours in a cloud that sparks lightning... and not Fire. So port that over to Elemental monks in D&D, I'd give Lightning based abilities to Air monks in my game.
I think that's true. Toph understood that metal was made using various ores and shifted her mindset to be able to bend metal. Water benders can manipulate the water content in plants and even living creatures. So, I can see how an air bender could control the temperature of air to freeze or heat water....but I don't see how you are connecting earth bending with flight?
Maybe manipulating the magnetic properties of the earth and the individual's body to propel them into the air?
What? No that's not right at all. Wan's story showed explicitly that trying to hold all four bending disciplines at once would tear a person's body apart, even with the help of the spirit of light. He had to pull in the energy of a once-every-10,000-years cosmic event to fully merge with the Avatar spirit and hold all four disciplines.
The bits of stuff we're 1. There is wisdom that each bending group can draw from the others to become stronger in their own discipline; and B: some folks can push the boundaries of their discipline, like bending molten earth, but that doesn't mean Bolin was a firebender. He could just bend earth in a form that other people couldn't.
Earth benders can defy the gravity around rocks. Rocks are minerals. Your body, and anything really, could be described as being made of minerals. I could at least see them leaping massive distances, though they might struggle to full on levitate. I mean earth bending is gravity bending, basically. Again, this is all assuming you’re using the Avatar universe.
If you're looking for a different look for a wind-based monk society thing, I really loved Zephyr Sanctum in Guild Wars 2. Bazaar of the Four Winds was blew me away.
I don't have an answer for you on the gravity defying earthbending effects. I will say though, with no concrete reason, that flight is too high a hurdle for me to get over. Also, thematically, earth bending/monks would be tied to the ground, you know? Solid. Stable. None of this namby pamby floating around in the sky bullshit. Using a rock to catapult you over a long distance? OK. I got you. Flight? No sir. Not for me.
Sorry I don’t think I got across what I meant, I just think a 20th level monk should see beyond the divides, and that both an air monk and fire monk could have a path that progresses to lightning, not that a regular earth dude should have flight.
It's like BOTW speedrunning. Perfectly safe!
I tried to refluff it into a suit of Animated Armor (I'm RPing as if my Hexblade abilities are gifted from a Celestial Patron Angel of Whatever. And the armor is representative of his boon as my PC does that good good work) with everything else the same. Still a no go. He's got a problem with anything being summoned into Ravenloft. His reasoning is that Strahd and the Mists control what comes in and out of his realm. Not some Angel from a few planes away.
He offered to give me +1d8 damage on my attacks in lieu of a spectre. I said that wasn't equivalent as its pretty much the same as a Green Flame Blade cantrip, and not a 6th level core ability. But I'm kinda at a loss at something equivalent to the utility of having an ally for the rest of the day who can watch over our rest and aint too shabby in a fight.
Thoughts?
It hasn't come up, but I'm going to say yes. Luckily none of us are playing a druid
1. Your shadow becomes an ally, taking on a material form. While it’s active you cast no shadow.
2. Your patron sent a celestial warrior to you long ago, which is bonded to your very soul. It can leap out to aid you, but sustains itself inside your heart.
3. Your body is inked with a magical tattoo of a beast, likewise it can pop off for a bit but must return to you.
4. You have a necklace with a tin knight on it. It becomes that animated armour you were on about.
5. You’re so dang fast you’re in two places at once!
Shadow is definitely not going to fly. Using another's soul is even worse. Tattoo might be something we can discuss? A necklace is just something he'll take away from me, effectively nursing a class ability that shouldn't need a focus.
He's been running homebrewed Ravenloft since 3e and he has particular ideas about control/travel, who gets to use and manipulate souls/necromancy, and who has domination over the undead. I really don't want to fight him on this....but neither do I want to have a nerfed 6th level ability, especially considering this campaign might not go past 12th level.
I'm looking now at just giving up Accursed Spectre and swapping it entirely for the Defy Death 6th level ability from the Undying One Patron.
What if it was just a spell, like, it’s animate earth. You make the rocks around you into a servant. It has no mind, you’re just moving it around.
Something like that is not in any way undead or a spirit, it's pure arcane creation, maybe flavoring it as something like that would float your DM's boat? If they'd be okay with that, just use the spectre's stats but change its type to Construct. For PHB similar magic point to the Simulacrum spell - a construct of a creature that does not have a soul, this would just be a less substantial version of that
I don't think he'll go for anything resembling the use of a soul or spirit, no matter how much we obfuscate it. I don't agree with his position but I get it. Undead bad. Players no get undead toys.
I've just sent another text asking for clarification of his objection to the Animated Armor. I think we can get past this impasse, we just need to phrase it properly.
We had a good talk this afternoon and have come to an accord!
Its not so much that as it is I've talked up that my PC is an agent of an Angel of Lost Causes, fighting the good fight that nobody else wants to fight. I'm RPing a Celestial patron but using the mechanics of the Hexblade. He doesn't think the Spectre part jives with the rest of it, especially in Ravenloft. And I'm totally cool with that. I'm reasonably sure if I was playing a "Straight" Hexblade and leaning into the darker aspects of the class he would have nixed it.
WRT his overall feelings about Ravenloft: He's very much playing into the "this place is awful and the longer one is here, the more awful they become". He wants the icky dark stuff to be the purview of the DM only and the heroes to be these shining beacons of light dumped in this horrible place. I assume he wants to slowly wear down the PC's idealism with the ennui of Ravenloft. To that end, any usage of the "dark powers" (read: evil or evil adjacent), will only hasten our tarnishment. His similar, but not quite the same reluctance to allow for summonsy type stuff is that any normal, fey or celestial creature summoned to Ravenloft will be trapped here with no way back past the mists and therefore resent and rebel against the summoner. Forcing it to happen is an inherently evil act and will hasten our tarnishment. Casting find familiar or steed will result in an undead version of arriving instead of a celestial one, etc.
Our accord has been that we've talked specifically about constructs and how they have no bound or borrowed spirit/soul, but instead animated by pure magical nonsense. So he's letting he have the tweaked version of Accursed Spectre as is, but instead of a Spectre its back to my idea of a suit of Animated Armor, and as I mentioned fluffed to be a more angelic version reminiscent of Patron's physical form. Yay for understanding and agreement!
I'm going to miss being able do insubstantial shenanigans though.
When i DMd CoS, i allowed summon spells but it could only be denizens of Barovia (i.e. no elephants or gorrilas or whatever). And they'd always look screwed up, mangy, etc..
I actually went through the available spells from A-Z and think what, if any, would end up modified.
Then nobody in the party ended up casting summon does anyway.
They learned early on that any kind of teleport (including misty step) does psychic damage to the caster and force damage to whomever or whatever is being teleported. The larger the distance, the more dmg. Planar travel attempts were many d20s iirc and then you'd end up in a random location in Barovia. But nobody tried it :biggrin:
I think my DM would rather he turned us dark, rather than us getting there ourselves and ruining his fun.
Point on conjure spells, they're not real creatures, they assemble them from bits of fey/elemental spirits
People have emotions in barovia and like, fire works, and they can breath, so on a metaphysical level there have to be fey and elemental spirits within Boriva
So "conjure" spells should work just fine unless your DM isn't even allowing find familiar or find steed, since those are exactly the same (however flavoring them as evil or depressed versions of their true selves makes perfect sense, since these spirits would have been trapped in this dark place for hundreds of years and any physical form you give them could reflect that)
Keep in mind you can't leave Barovia, but the ethereal plane is still 100% accessible
Spells like misty step, dimension door, thunder step, and etherealness should work just fine - same with things like bags of holding and mordenkainen's magnificent mansion (this is literally a spell the module gives the players access to). The module also tells us that ethereal travel is possible in the spells section under Blink