I mean, are we really saying that the only things that matters in a game are characters and music, and that if we strip away every single aspect of its gameplay and replace it with something else, it's still the same game? Because that sounds fucking bonkers.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I mean, are we really saying that the only things that matters in a game are characters and music, and that if we strip away every single aspect of its gameplay and replace it with something else, it's still the same game? Because that sounds fucking bonkers.
You don't enter dungeons, solve puzzles, get heart pieces, fight giant bosses all the while listening to some bitching music?
I've never played CoH so I don't know.
With the exception of the heart pieces (replace them with XP or various other upgrades that ultimately serve the same purpose) you could say this of Dungeons and Dragons games, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Metroid, Borderlands, Tomb Raider, or Chrono Trigger. I don't think you can condense all those things into a single genre that is in any way meaningful or helpful.
I know it seems like people are bummed out by which SNES games are missing, which ones are likely to never come, and how few will probably come out when all is said and done. But I'm just pleased as punch because just about every NES and SNES game I love is playable on Switch (though some through separate compilations).
I just need the inevitable Final Fantasy IV - VI compilation and I'll be good. Bonus points for Chrono Trigger.
They'll just port the PS1 versions. Shitty translation and load times and all.
It's a patent filing diagram so the image probably isn't showing exactly what the final product would be, just pointing out features salient to the patent.
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
You don't enter dungeons, solve puzzles, get heart pieces, fight giant bosses all the while listening to some bitching music?
I've never played CoH so I don't know.
Let's be clear: thus far my gameplay of Breath of the Wild hasn't actually borne any of these traditional items out. And while I say traditional, they've only been traditional in Zelda games since Zelda 3? I mean, I'm being pedantic just to be pedantic.
Also, if you really want a game that is "zelda with randomizing factors", you could check out "bit Dungeon II", which sadly is only on Android, Mac, and Windows. It's much the same basic gameplay, the dungeons are actually almost the exact same run to run, but what changes is the overworld map and order you can access the dungeons.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
Hey the daemon x mahina character creature let's you select gender separately from physical characteristics and voices, which is a small detail, but pretty cool to see and I know it's been a thing talked about lately due to cyberpunk
Daemon X Machina's character creator is surprisingly in-depth for a game where you sit invisibly in a mech for the majority of the time. Like, it's better than Astral Chain's.
So, are the bosses in Demon's Crest supposed to be incredibly fucking annoying or have I missed something? Am I supposed to come back later or something? Even with save states, they're pretty awful. At least the first 3 were shortish. This scythe -throwing skull worm can get fucked.
That is... literally what a remake is supposed to be?
RE/2Make is what a remake is supposed to be.
Do we know everything about the game yet or are you just assuming that it's 1 for 1 remake of the Gameboy game?
Not that it matters much to me. I've never played it beyond the first few areas. It's a new game to me!
Well they managed to jump from monochrome pixels to shiny 3-d models, but we somehow haven't shaken the "memory limitations" that forced the outdoors to be arranged like an artificial grid. Or rather they just decided that copying the exact level layout from a gameboy was more important than entering the 21st century. (And yes, most of what we've seen can be 1:1 lined up with the original.) Pokemon has had similar struggles.
I'm not super upset about this one foible personally, I will bet the feel of combat and monster AI will be quite different in practice for instance if only because the game supports 360 degree movement, but I will argue that remakes can aspire to be more than a retread. The best ones try to push boundaries in the present like their inspirations did in the past, or at least take a second stab at ideas left on the cutting-room floor the first time around.
rahkeesh2000 on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
As someone whose favorite Zelda is Link's Awakening, I can't wait for this game, 1-to-1 remake or no. It looks so damn good.
I loved the original when it came out and I've played it across probably 3-4 different handhelds, so I couldn't be less interested in a 1:1 (or anything near that ratio) remake. I heard "Link's Awakening remake" and immediately thought they were doing something impressive and interesting like putting it on the BotW engine, so it was a huge disappointment to see it's just Link's Awakening: Shinier Edition.
It's good that a lot of people who otherwise would never have played it will now get to play it, I'm just not at all interested in a pretty clone claiming to be a remake.
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
Was it called a remake or a remaster? Because, I mean, shiny edition is generally remaster, and remake is "took the original concept and iterated on it".
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Whichever they said (which is a negligible issue, considering it could've easily just been a mistranslation anyway), it's still a disappointment for me. When people have done things like rebuilt Link to the Past in the Unreal engine as a 3D map and they did it is a hobby, a clone of and old game with new graphics is just not a big deal.
Not to mention it would've been hugely more interesting to do it in the original concept art style at least, instead of just doing a cutesy version of the Gameboy models which only looked that way due to severe system limitations.
Was it called a remake or a remaster? Because, I mean, shiny edition is generally remaster, and remake is "took the original concept and iterated on it".
The way I've always seen it is that a remaster is something with no new assets, just ported to a more capable system, with maybe some QOL tweaks (Wind Waker HD, Twilight Princess HD). A remake is where they completely rebuild the game with new assets and most likely a new engine (OOT3D, MM3D, Link's Awakening). But it doesn't mean they actually changed anything about the structure of the game. These terms are borrowed from film and music. Some movie remakes change the story/characters (Dawn of the Dead), and some remakes are shot for shot (Psycho). So far, all of Zelda's remakes have been of the "shot for shot" variety.
Honestly, Cadence of Hyrule scans as a Zelda game because, well, it already shares a ton of gameplay elements as is. Top-down tile-based gameplay with purely position-based fighting is kind of what LttP had, just Cadence adds rhythm. The only thing I don't know whether it has is puzzles.
I know what SP version I want first for the SNES online:
I got Yoshi's Island for Christmas the year it came out, and being much better at games than I am now, 100% finished it the next day. I had time, a little help with finding a couple of secrets and destroyed it so easily that I was disappointed with the game.
When the SNES Classic came out, I saw how far my gaming skills have fallen.
Yoshi's Island SP: shut that baby the fuck up!
Beat me on Wii U: Raybies
Beat me on 360: Raybies666
I'm sorry, but saying Cadence of Hyrule is a legit Zelda game is like saying Mario Party is a legit Super Mario Bros. game. Or that Metroid Prime Pinball is a legit Metroid game.
ok, how about this: Cadence of Hyrule is more of a legit Zelda game than Breath of the Wild
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
That is... literally what a remake is supposed to be?
RE/2Make is what a remake is supposed to be.
Resident Evil 2 (2019) is very good, but no, a remake should be as close to the original gameplay as possible with a modern appearance and maybe some quality-of-life improvements.
That sounds like more like the concept of a remaster not a remake.
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dipuc4life... In my own HeadRegistered Userregular
Hey guys, just got caught up with about 700 post since my last post about being robbed at gunpoint. Thanks for all the well wishes. I'm doing okay. People don't realize the value of talking about an ordeal with friends and family, and being able to be frank with them about my feelings. It's some great therapy. I'm still a little paranoid (and who wouldn't be) but I have to say I'm probably 85% back to 'normal'.
I do have good news. The assailants had stolen my car and work laptop bag which at the time contained my passport. Well, the police found my car, and lo and behold in the back seat was my passport (the laptop bag wasn't so lucky). I'm grateful for small mercies. I have to replace the entire key system but it's better than buying a new car when money is tight. However, it's not tight enough for me to not be able to replace my Switch when I get paid this month. WHOOT whoot.
On topic: I see that I've missed a lot. The direct, (that I haven't watched yet ... No stable internet yet) game announcements, and a reason to renew my online membership. Also, I guess I'm going all digital on the new Switch. Might as well since my physical games were stolen and if I ever want to finish those games I'll have to re-buy then. At least one big benefit of digital is that I can re-download anything I bought. And the biggest drawback is that I'll probably end up paying more for the convenience.
I'm sorry, but saying Cadence of Hyrule is a legit Zelda game is like saying Mario Party is a legit Super Mario Bros. game. Or that Metroid Prime Pinball is a legit Metroid game.
ok, how about this: Cadence of Hyrule is more of a legit Zelda game than Breath of the Wild
Except BOTW has all the trappings of a Zelda game. You can argue that it introduced new elements and scaled back certain elements, but all the main elements associated with Zelda going back to ALTTP are all there.
COD is a rythmn based roguelite with a Zelda coat of paint.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
Hey guys, just got caught up with about 700 post since my last post about being robbed at gunpoint. Thanks for all the well wishes. I'm doing okay. People don't realize the value of talking about an ordeal with friends and family, and being able to be frank with them about my feelings. It's some great therapy. I'm still a little paranoid (and who wouldn't be) but I have to say I'm probably 85% back to 'normal'.
I do have good news. The assailants had stolen my car and work laptop bag which at the time contained my passport. Well, the police found my car, and lo and behold in the back seat was my passport (the laptop bag wasn't so lucky). I'm grateful for small mercies. I have to replace the entire key system but it's better than buying a new car when money is tight. However, it's not tight enough for me to not be able to replace my Switch when I get paid this month. WHOOT whoot.
On topic: I see that I've missed a lot. The direct, (that I haven't watched yet ... No stable internet yet) game announcements, and a reason to renew my online membership. Also, I guess I'm going all digital on the new Switch. Might as well since my physical games were stolen and if I ever want to finish those games I'll have to re-buy then. At least one big benefit of digital is that I can re-download anything I bought. And the biggest drawback is that I'll probably end up paying more for the convenience.
Glad you got some of your stuff back! Now get that Switch so you can play super nintendo games all day!
I'm sorry, but saying Cadence of Hyrule is a legit Zelda game is like saying Mario Party is a legit Super Mario Bros. game. Or that Metroid Prime Pinball is a legit Metroid game.
ok, how about this: Cadence of Hyrule is more of a legit Zelda game than Breath of the Wild
Except BOTW has all the trappings of a Zelda game. You can argue that it introduced new elements and scaled back certain elements, but all the main elements associated with Zelda going back to ALTTP are all there.
COD is a rythmn based roguelite with a Zelda coat of paint.
Yeah, actual gameplay is important. It'd be like saying Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (a roguelike) is more of a legit Pokemon game than Sword and Shield, because Sword and Shield aren't tile-based or something, even though they are a much more natural evolution gameplay-wise of the classic formula than PMD.
Also, I guess I'm going all digital on the new Switch. Might as well since my physical games were stolen and if I ever want to finish those games I'll have to re-buy then. At least one big benefit of digital is that I can re-download anything I bought. And the biggest drawback is that I'll probably end up paying more for the convenience.
I would be cautious about this. I guess I don't know if you're a crazy person who owns a million games but it's really easy to fill up a card. I do my best to be mostly physical and I only have 23 gigs left out of a 256 gig SD card. I can't imagine if I had to have my whole physical collection on there too.
The biggest offenders for me right now are:
DCUO (24.2 GB)
Resident Evil Revelations 2 (23.6 GB)
Starlink: Battle for Atlas (16.3 GB)
Warframe (15.4 GB, I can possibly delete this but I don't need the space...yet)
Wasteland 2: Director's Cut (12.2 GB)
Resident Evil Revelations (12 GB)
Okami HD (9.1 GB)
That's about half of my card.
It goes down from there but it still all adds up. Lots of 1 and 2 gig things, often in the form of update data to physical games, like Smash and BOTW.
Some people don't mind deleting things to make space and redownloading later, but I like to have everything available.
All you people waiting to jump into the Baldur's Gate series this holiday need to take a detour to Divinity II Original Sin. This is such an impressive port of a supremely impressive game, and there's no longer any need to deal with antiquated graphics and UI to get started on this subgenre. Don't worry about starting with the sequel either, this game is set 1000 years later and is actually closer story wise to the Divine Divinity main series. (As a DD fan I wish someone told me that sooner!)
Also Pillars of Eternity still has a pretty gamebreaking bug where your spells quit working entirely. So yeah, DOS:II is the pick.
That sounds like more like the concept of a remaster not a remake.
“Remaster” already has long established meaning as [enhanced port/update that largely or completely uses the same assets as the original].
Things like RE2 2019 and whatever they’re doing to final fantasy 7 should be called “reimaginings”, not “remakes”
I thought remaster often meant things like running the textures through an upscaling process, which then becomes debatable if it's the same assets. I think there are even some games labeled "remasters" that have newly-created textures. The key thing is that the world geometry tends to be the same, the voice acting is the same, the engine is probably the same.
Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes is a remake. They re-recorded all the dialogue, the music is different, the engine is different, the gameplay is different in a lot of ways but it's not a change in genres, the maps and path through the game are generally laid out the same way, so it avoids becoming a "re-imagining."
Alright so the only thing that makes CoH not a Zelda game is the fact you use rhythm to move? Is that the line we're drawing?
I find this conversation interesting, honestly. I'm not trying to argue or anything.
People are missing the original point completely. The point wasn't that CoH "isn't a true Zelda game". The point was that someone said they wanted a randomized Zelda, and then someone else said that's what CoH is. As in, we don't need a randomized Zelda or random feature in Awakening because CoH exists.
So yes, CoH is a game using Zelda IP and themes, and it also has randomization, but it's not exactly the solution to the original wish. CoH--being a reskinned necrodancer after all--isn't just a different installment of Zelda along the lines that Nintendo already plays within (The changes along Link to the Past > Ocarina > Twilight Princess > Breath of the Wild do include very impactful and important differences) it's a completely different playstyle, different genre, and different developer. I don't have sales figures or anything to back it up, but I'd also guess that there are a lot of players that don't want anything to do with CoH because of it being a rhythm roguelite.
So, back to the original point, yes, it would be really cool to have Zelda with random maps. Because we don't have that right now.
All you people waiting to jump into the Baldur's Gate series this holiday need to take a detour to Divinity II Original Sin. This is such an impressive port of a supremely impressive game, and there's no longer any need to deal with antiquated graphics and UI to get started on this subgenre.
Also Pillars of Eternity still has a pretty gamebreaking bug where your spells quit working entirely.
If you're a fan of Baldur's Gate and its ilk, and you haven't played it (or the first one even), you're in for a treat. Everything about them is fantastic. Everything!
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The both have swords, duh
I've never played CoH so I don't know.
With the exception of the heart pieces (replace them with XP or various other upgrades that ultimately serve the same purpose) you could say this of Dungeons and Dragons games, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Metroid, Borderlands, Tomb Raider, or Chrono Trigger. I don't think you can condense all those things into a single genre that is in any way meaningful or helpful.
They'll just port the PS1 versions. Shitty translation and load times and all.
Steam: pazython
I'm having a hard time trying to visualize how that would be ergonomic at all, seems like it would be kind of uncomfortable to hold it that way?
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Let's be clear: thus far my gameplay of Breath of the Wild hasn't actually borne any of these traditional items out. And while I say traditional, they've only been traditional in Zelda games since Zelda 3? I mean, I'm being pedantic just to be pedantic.
Also, if you really want a game that is "zelda with randomizing factors", you could check out "bit Dungeon II", which sadly is only on Android, Mac, and Windows. It's much the same basic gameplay, the dungeons are actually almost the exact same run to run, but what changes is the overworld map and order you can access the dungeons.
Oh I’m at 1 HP because of poison? No encounters for the entire walk back.
Need to level up? Okay, every encounter will be this one Spider that’s worth a ton and no other enemies so I can finish the fight in one swing.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Daemon X Machina's character creator is surprisingly in-depth for a game where you sit invisibly in a mech for the majority of the time. Like, it's better than Astral Chain's.
Well they managed to jump from monochrome pixels to shiny 3-d models, but we somehow haven't shaken the "memory limitations" that forced the outdoors to be arranged like an artificial grid. Or rather they just decided that copying the exact level layout from a gameboy was more important than entering the 21st century. (And yes, most of what we've seen can be 1:1 lined up with the original.) Pokemon has had similar struggles.
I'm not super upset about this one foible personally, I will bet the feel of combat and monster AI will be quite different in practice for instance if only because the game supports 360 degree movement, but I will argue that remakes can aspire to be more than a retread. The best ones try to push boundaries in the present like their inspirations did in the past, or at least take a second stab at ideas left on the cutting-room floor the first time around.
I loved the original when it came out and I've played it across probably 3-4 different handhelds, so I couldn't be less interested in a 1:1 (or anything near that ratio) remake. I heard "Link's Awakening remake" and immediately thought they were doing something impressive and interesting like putting it on the BotW engine, so it was a huge disappointment to see it's just Link's Awakening: Shinier Edition.
It's good that a lot of people who otherwise would never have played it will now get to play it, I'm just not at all interested in a pretty clone claiming to be a remake.
Not to mention it would've been hugely more interesting to do it in the original concept art style at least, instead of just doing a cutesy version of the Gameboy models which only looked that way due to severe system limitations.
That patent looks like a way too more comfortably hold the switch while walking, maybe for ar situations.
I don't think anyone was arguing that COH wasn't part of the Zelda franchise, because it is. Even Wand of Gamelon is part of the franchise.
I got Yoshi's Island for Christmas the year it came out, and being much better at games than I am now, 100% finished it the next day. I had time, a little help with finding a couple of secrets and destroyed it so easily that I was disappointed with the game.
When the SNES Classic came out, I saw how far my gaming skills have fallen.
Yoshi's Island SP: shut that baby the fuck up!
Beat me on 360: Raybies666
I remember when I had time to be good at games.
ok, how about this: Cadence of Hyrule is more of a legit Zelda game than Breath of the Wild
It has Zelda and/or Link in it.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Resident Evil 2 (2019) is very good, but no, a remake should be as close to the original gameplay as possible with a modern appearance and maybe some quality-of-life improvements.
I do have good news. The assailants had stolen my car and work laptop bag which at the time contained my passport. Well, the police found my car, and lo and behold in the back seat was my passport (the laptop bag wasn't so lucky). I'm grateful for small mercies. I have to replace the entire key system but it's better than buying a new car when money is tight. However, it's not tight enough for me to not be able to replace my Switch when I get paid this month. WHOOT whoot.
On topic: I see that I've missed a lot. The direct, (that I haven't watched yet ... No stable internet yet) game announcements, and a reason to renew my online membership. Also, I guess I'm going all digital on the new Switch. Might as well since my physical games were stolen and if I ever want to finish those games I'll have to re-buy then. At least one big benefit of digital is that I can re-download anything I bought. And the biggest drawback is that I'll probably end up paying more for the convenience.
Playstation: Dipuc4Life
Warframe_Switch IGN: ONVEBAL
Except BOTW has all the trappings of a Zelda game. You can argue that it introduced new elements and scaled back certain elements, but all the main elements associated with Zelda going back to ALTTP are all there.
COD is a rythmn based roguelite with a Zelda coat of paint.
Glad you got some of your stuff back! Now get that Switch so you can play super nintendo games all day!
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Yeah, actual gameplay is important. It'd be like saying Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (a roguelike) is more of a legit Pokemon game than Sword and Shield, because Sword and Shield aren't tile-based or something, even though they are a much more natural evolution gameplay-wise of the classic formula than PMD.
Soul Calibur 2 is my favorite zelda game.
edit: Also mario maker.
And SC4 would be in my top 3 Star Wars games.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I would be cautious about this. I guess I don't know if you're a crazy person who owns a million games but it's really easy to fill up a card. I do my best to be mostly physical and I only have 23 gigs left out of a 256 gig SD card. I can't imagine if I had to have my whole physical collection on there too.
The biggest offenders for me right now are:
DCUO (24.2 GB)
Resident Evil Revelations 2 (23.6 GB)
Starlink: Battle for Atlas (16.3 GB)
Warframe (15.4 GB, I can possibly delete this but I don't need the space...yet)
Wasteland 2: Director's Cut (12.2 GB)
Resident Evil Revelations (12 GB)
Okami HD (9.1 GB)
That's about half of my card.
It goes down from there but it still all adds up. Lots of 1 and 2 gig things, often in the form of update data to physical games, like Smash and BOTW.
Some people don't mind deleting things to make space and redownloading later, but I like to have everything available.
I would look up the file sizes of every game you want to own and add them up, see what size card you would need for that.
I find this conversation interesting, honestly. I'm not trying to argue or anything.
“Remaster” already has long established meaning as [enhanced port/update that largely or completely uses the same assets as the original].
Things like RE2 2019 and whatever they’re doing to final fantasy 7 should be called “reimaginings”, not “remakes”
Also Pillars of Eternity still has a pretty gamebreaking bug where your spells quit working entirely. So yeah, DOS:II is the pick.
I thought remaster often meant things like running the textures through an upscaling process, which then becomes debatable if it's the same assets. I think there are even some games labeled "remasters" that have newly-created textures. The key thing is that the world geometry tends to be the same, the voice acting is the same, the engine is probably the same.
Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes is a remake. They re-recorded all the dialogue, the music is different, the engine is different, the gameplay is different in a lot of ways but it's not a change in genres, the maps and path through the game are generally laid out the same way, so it avoids becoming a "re-imagining."
People are missing the original point completely. The point wasn't that CoH "isn't a true Zelda game". The point was that someone said they wanted a randomized Zelda, and then someone else said that's what CoH is. As in, we don't need a randomized Zelda or random feature in Awakening because CoH exists.
So yes, CoH is a game using Zelda IP and themes, and it also has randomization, but it's not exactly the solution to the original wish. CoH--being a reskinned necrodancer after all--isn't just a different installment of Zelda along the lines that Nintendo already plays within (The changes along Link to the Past > Ocarina > Twilight Princess > Breath of the Wild do include very impactful and important differences) it's a completely different playstyle, different genre, and different developer. I don't have sales figures or anything to back it up, but I'd also guess that there are a lot of players that don't want anything to do with CoH because of it being a rhythm roguelite.
So, back to the original point, yes, it would be really cool to have Zelda with random maps. Because we don't have that right now.
If you're a fan of Baldur's Gate and its ilk, and you haven't played it (or the first one even), you're in for a treat. Everything about them is fantastic. Everything!
To be fair FF7:R was in development before we were all born so the terminology changed since then.