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The [Impeachment] of the 45th President of the United States

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    According to Nunes, it was actually the Democrats who went to Ukraine and colluded with them! DEFLECT SHIELDS TO FULL ALL POWER TO THE DEFLECTOR SHIELDS

    This is an actual thing in the far-right "news" space, by the way. Nunes (and Trump) wallow in this stuff and eat it all up. Trump even references it directly in the White House readout of the Ukraine call.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The reason this is causing the impeachment to start and not the concentration camps is because the camps are legal, or at least have a legal basis. Going after Trump over them would be a pure political attack. Impeachment because of Ukraine is based on an actual law being broken and makes it harder for someone not already invested in Trump's politics to blow it off as a political attack.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The problem highlighted by the whistleblower report is continuous abuse of the power of his office to extort a foreign power to influence our domestic elections. Not (intentionally) misfiling transcripts.

    And fucking with elections are kind of a big deal since it eliminates the 'just vote him out' valve. That's partly why Republicans keep trying to do it.

    Yeah

    Watergate wasn’t a huge deal just because some guys broke into a hotel somewhere

    So once again, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up?

    No, in both cases it was the crime. Don't break the law to try and get a leg up in your election.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So read the whistle blower complaint. Its pretty thorough and I figured the IG before passing it along interviewed folks mentioned in the complaint as well as the whistle blower who confirmed it.

    Its damning. I am not sure general public damning without explanation but it is very much a road map of actions taken by the White House and the presidents personal lawyer to force a foreign government to investigate/provide information on a political rival in trade for a positive relationship and the cover up of such an action/communication by internal White House staff so that is never actually found out by the intel community or the press or Congress.

    And then points to a pattern of such actions over time making it not a single one off event.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Rigging elections is kind of a big deal, without any sort of coverup

    Rigging elections through the assistance of foreign governments is pretty fucking cataclysmic

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Absalon wrote: »
    Okay Maguire, Acting Dir. of DNI sounds like he is transcribing his autobiography. I guess he wants to establish his integrity before making any important statements but ooh boy this is tiresome.

    Yeah I can't wait to see how he breaks the law after all this self-flagellation about his own record.

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The reason this is causing the impeachment to start and not the concentration camps is because the camps are legal, or at least have a legal basis. Going after Trump over them would be a pure political attack. Impeachment because of Ukraine is based on an actual law being broken and makes it harder for someone not already invested in Trump's politics to blow it off as a political attack.

    Yeah. Legally the President (and executive branch in general) has pretty broad powers in foreign policy and anything around the borders. The Ukraine stuff registers because it is the President using these broad powers for direct domestic political gain, which breaks several laws.

    There is no "human rights" clause in the Constitution, and while technically impeachment is a political process that means whatever Congress wants, it is generally accepted via the times it has been used that the subject has to have broken a law (or several).

    a5ehren on
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I think I just saw the DNI throw the White House under the bus saying they claimed executive privilege on a a whistle blower report. And that it was the White House counsel not the DoJ that did and he was unable to override that.

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The problem highlighted by the whistleblower report is continuous abuse of the power of his office to extort a foreign power to influence our domestic elections. Not (intentionally) misfiling transcripts.

    And fucking with elections are kind of a big deal since it eliminates the 'just vote him out' valve. That's partly why Republicans keep trying to do it.

    Yeah

    Watergate wasn’t a huge deal just because some guys broke into a hotel somewhere

    So once again, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up?

    But also it’s the context of the crime

    fuck gendered marketing
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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    I think I just saw the DNI throw the White House under the bus saying they claimed executive privilege on a a whistle blower report. And that it was the White House counsel not the DoJ that did and he was unable to override that.

    The executive branch is looking like it'll be 60-70% speed bumps by volume if this keeps up.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    DNI is belabouring the extent to which everyone has been following the letter of the law on the whisteblower/ICIG side of things

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Somebody needs to ask if executive privilege was implicitly or explicitly asserted, and if so, when exactly and by whom

    joshofalltrades on
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Ah there it is, "While past whistleblower complaints were provided to Congress, this one is ~~~different~~~"

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The reason this is causing the impeachment to start and not the concentration camps is because the camps are legal, or at least have a legal basis. Going after Trump over them would be a pure political attack. Impeachment because of Ukraine is based on an actual law being broken and makes it harder for someone not already invested in Trump's politics to blow it off as a political attack.

    Yeah. Legally the President (and executive branch in general) has pretty broad powers in foreign policy and anything around the borders. The Ukraine stuff registers because it is the President using these broad powers for direct domestic political gain, which breaks several laws.

    There is no "human rights" clause in the Constitution, and while technically impeachment is a political process that means whatever Congress wants, it is generally accepted via the times it has been used that the subject has to have broken a law (or several).

    Like half of the amendments cover basic human rights and say the government can't infringe them. The 10th says "no, not being listed here is not an excuse". Multiple international treaties (including, iirc, the UN definition of genocide, just without the Hague part), etc.

    There are absolutely laws the camps trample all over and everyone involved should be hauled before the courts for.

    The problem is that a significant portion of the country is cheering for racism, not that there isn't anything prohibiting this shit.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    He has no opinion on whether the complaint constitutes wrongdoing by the president?!

    Fuck your “impartiality” dude

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    wow, DNI really really doesn't want to say anything at all bad about the president

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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    That was quite an opening statement. The complaint couldn't be classified as urgent because the president isn't part of the intelligence community, which is wild of a loophole.

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    wobblyheadedbobwobblyheadedbob Registered User regular
    Wow this guy is stonewalling.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    He has no opinion on whether the complaint constitutes wrongdoing by the president?!

    Fuck your “impartiality” dude

    He's only the Director of National Intelligence! Who is he to say what constitutes a breach in our intelligence!

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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    He's just the acting DNI correct?

    Black lives matter.
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    *Acting* Director

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Also he is the acting DNI not the actual DNI since it is a confirmed position. Not like that matters.

    The executive privilege argument is going to kill them I think.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Stating basic facts about events that happened is apparently partisan now

    Post-truth reality can eat feces

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Executive privilege wasn’t asserted! He says so himself! Holy shit!

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Cool cool cool more quantum executive privilege

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    This guy is acting skeevy as fuck

    The first place he goes is to the White House, the people being complained about, to see if he should report the whistleblower complaint?!

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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The reason this is causing the impeachment to start and not the concentration camps is because the camps are legal, or at least have a legal basis. Going after Trump over them would be a pure political attack. Impeachment because of Ukraine is based on an actual law being broken and makes it harder for someone not already invested in Trump's politics to blow it off as a political attack.

    Yeah. Legally the President (and executive branch in general) has pretty broad powers in foreign policy and anything around the borders. The Ukraine stuff registers because it is the President using these broad powers for direct domestic political gain, which breaks several laws.

    There is no "human rights" clause in the Constitution, and while technically impeachment is a political process that means whatever Congress wants, it is generally accepted via the times it has been used that the subject has to have broken a law (or several).

    Like half of the amendments cover basic human rights and say the government can't infringe them. The 10th says "no, not being listed here is not an excuse". Multiple international treaties (including, iirc, the UN definition of genocide, just without the Hague part), etc.

    There are absolutely laws the camps trample all over and everyone involved should be hauled before the courts for.

    The problem is that a significant portion of the country is cheering for racism, not that there isn't anything prohibiting this shit.

    I am fairly confident in saying that a US President will never, ever be impeached for UN treaty violations.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    ~dignity wraith, dignity wraith~

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    This guy is getting super flustered. It's very skeezy.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Schiff isn’t having this shit (Re: going to the subject of wrongdoing first for advice)

    Good to see

    joshofalltrades on
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    wobblyheadedbobwobblyheadedbob Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    What the hell? Don’t assume they’re going to use executive privilege! Let them use it.

    wobblyheadedbob on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Nunes gets to talk next

    Good time to switch to Borderlands

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Shorter Adam Schiff: "You went to the people implicated in the memo to ask what to do about it?"
    Shorter Joseph Maguire: "Uh uh um well um could you repeat that uh um well i went first to the um well"

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    DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    The only reason I can think of for Republicans moving this through is because they are sick of this shit and are preparing to shove Trump down the memory hole

    Even if Trump is impeached and is removed from office or kicked out in 2020, I don't think he'll go away for quite a few years. He's built a giant cult of personality out of the Republican party and is going to be a thorn in their paw for a long time. In fact I bet he'll run for election again.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Maguire’s argument is that this is unprecedented so he should go and talk to the subject of the complaint

    It’s fucking bullshit and he knows it

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    am I missing something here? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    an anonymous whistleblower with second hand information about possible information stored on a different (but still classified and government owned) server is what the dems are finally acting on?!

    I get the ukraine extortion should be impeachable and I'm glad they are, but the above isn't nearly as damaging as the concentration camps on our southern border, or a slew of other things.

    without a bunch of whistleblowers with access or firsthand knowledge to and/or of that server, I don't see how this isn't ignored until it goes away in a month

    The reason this is causing the impeachment to start and not the concentration camps is because the camps are legal, or at least have a legal basis. Going after Trump over them would be a pure political attack. Impeachment because of Ukraine is based on an actual law being broken and makes it harder for someone not already invested in Trump's politics to blow it off as a political attack.

    Yeah. Legally the President (and executive branch in general) has pretty broad powers in foreign policy and anything around the borders. The Ukraine stuff registers because it is the President using these broad powers for direct domestic political gain, which breaks several laws.

    There is no "human rights" clause in the Constitution, and while technically impeachment is a political process that means whatever Congress wants, it is generally accepted via the times it has been used that the subject has to have broken a law (or several).

    Like half of the amendments cover basic human rights and say the government can't infringe them. The 10th says "no, not being listed here is not an excuse". Multiple international treaties (including, iirc, the UN definition of genocide, just without the Hague part), etc.

    There are absolutely laws the camps trample all over and everyone involved should be hauled before the courts for.

    The problem is that a significant portion of the country is cheering for racism, not that there isn't anything prohibiting this shit.

    I am fairly confident in saying that a US President will never, ever be impeached for UN treaty violations.

    No, they would be impeached for violating implementing statutes. But yes, I know there's that awful American supremacy streak in the country's history. That's more a rant about about how things should be than how they are. In a better world and all that.

    For now I'll have to make do with schadenfreude at this blowing up in his face.

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    wow, DNI really really doesn't want to say anything at all bad about the president

    He would prefer to keep his job

    fuck gendered marketing
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Schiff: “When the president called the whistleblower a political hack why did you remain silent?”

    Maguire: “I didn’t! I sent an internal memo to the workforce!”

    Edit: fucking autocorrect

    joshofalltrades on
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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I think he's trying to defend himself from not turning it in earlier, which is Schiff's main point. It's just a big round about. Because Maguire has never seen a complaint like this, he worked with what he had and tried to make everyone happy, but honestly because of the conflict of interest, Maquire should have given the complaint to Congress.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    The only reason I can think of for Republicans moving this through is because they are sick of this shit and are preparing to shove Trump down the memory hole

    Even if Trump is impeached and is removed from office or kicked out in 2020, I don't think he'll go away for quite a few years. He's built a giant cult of personality out of the Republican party and is going to be a thorn in their paw for a long time. In fact I bet he'll run for election again.

    The way things are shaking out I think he'd have real problems doing that from Russia, or possibly a jail cell if he isn't smart enough to board the first plane out of the country the instant he is no longer President.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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