The fact they had to dedicate an entire dlc to one character just to stop fans from hating her is pretty damn bad. And I still came out on the otherwise lukewarm at best.
What character are you talking about? I actually haven't played any of the DLC at all. Will probably tackle it all with my brother once we get there. Which likely is still a ways away, given the pace we're moving at.
Really the only thing I personally didn't like about BL3 was the twins. I was ok with all of the other characters. And I thought the story picked up significantly once Typhon joined the story in the third act.
0
Options
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
I was a much bigger fan of the presequel to be honest.
The fact they had to dedicate an entire dlc to one character just to stop fans from hating her is pretty damn bad. And I still came out on the otherwise lukewarm at best.
What character are you talking about? I actually haven't played any of the DLC at all. Will probably tackle it all with my brother once we get there. Which likely is still a ways away, given the pace we're moving at.
Really the only thing I personally didn't like about BL3 was the twins. I was ok with all of the other characters. And I thought the story picked up significantly once Typhon joined the story in the third act.
Only character I can think of where they addressed the hate is Ava because she is an absolutely garbage character in the main story and ends up in a spot by the end of the game that makes no sense at all.
One of the later DLCs addressed this with giving players access to cut content and there are two pretty massive scenes that make Ava a significantly better character and they were both cut.
I don't remember any actual DLC gameplay stuff that addressed her or any other character people might not like though.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It's pretty obvious that they had more planned for Ava in the main game, but she suffered just like the inevitable betrayal of the sister by the brother was also tossed just to get the game shipped. The mid-game change in writing really hurt it in a lot of ways.
+2
Options
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
It's pretty obvious that they had more planned for Ava in the main game, but she suffered just like the inevitable betrayal of the sister by the brother was also tossed just to get the game shipped. The mid-game change in writing really hurt it in a lot of ways.
They definitely wanted/had Ava take a big part at the end of the game.
End game spoilers
She basically became the leader of the Crimson Raiders and had basically zero actual character development that occurred in the cut scenes that they gave people access to in one of the later DLCs. She didn't do anything of actual value that made me feel like her and Lilith had the kind of relationship where Lilith would give Ava that power.
This video does a good job of breaking it down, at least I think it did. I haven't watched it in a while.
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't played through BL3 yet.
Wonder why they were in such a rush with 3. Were Gearbox feeling the heat financially or something?
Its their flagship series, you would think they would give it the time. Another year couldn't have hurt.
Well, Battleborn was a complete flop on launch. They were probably able to ride Borderlands 2 money for a while but considering there were three years between Battleborn and Borderlands 3 with no other real big releases between, yeah, they probably felt major financial pressure.
I recognize the name Battleborn, but I didn't remember that it was made by Gearbox. Nor do I remember what it was. Was it the MOBA-esque shooter that got buried alive by Overwatch? Even though they weren't really the same genre? Is that the right thing I'm remembering?
Yeah, but I suspect a lot of the Ava development content that was planned got cut. There are other incomplete stories in BL3.
Whats hilarious is the head writer early on said that players who didnt like Ava hadn't finished any of her sidequests so apparently nobody told the head writer they were cutting content
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Yeah, but I suspect a lot of the Ava development content that was planned got cut. There are other incomplete stories in BL3.
Whats hilarious is the head writer early on said that players who didnt like Ava hadn't finished any of her sidequests so apparently nobody told the head writer they were cutting content
There was just the one, wasn't it? The one involving her diary.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Ava was a terrible character in a game that was incredibly badly written. Everything suffered in Borderlands 3 from their fetish of making the player stand around dicks in hand while important things happened. That was the truly infuriating part of Borderlands 3 story. Yes, Game of Thrones made it popular to kill lots of characters, but it also made sure that when it did so it was impactful and made logical sense (for the most part in earlier seasons). Not every story benefits from just randomly killing people for shock value.
Everything suffered in Borderlands 3 from their fetish of making the player stand around dicks in hand while important things happened.
That's probably one of the game's biggest sins. Sure, your characters had unique dialogue depending on who you're playing but when it came to cutscenes, you were suddenly tossed into the Phantom Zone. Doomed to watch but never interfere. It got really bad during the first Vault and kept on from there.
Like seriously, all they had to do was say there was some time-dilation thing when it came to entering and exiting a Vault and NOT start the cutscene just as you exited.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Even better: Start the cutscene BEFORE the boss or even during it. So that there is a reason this is happening, because you're literally fighting the boss as it's going down so you're firmly distracted.
The fact they had to dedicate an entire dlc to one character just to stop fans from hating her is pretty damn bad. And I still came out on the otherwise lukewarm at best.
What character are you talking about? I actually haven't played any of the DLC at all. Will probably tackle it all with my brother once we get there. Which likely is still a ways away, given the pace we're moving at.
Really the only thing I personally didn't like about BL3 was the twins. I was ok with all of the other characters. And I thought the story picked up significantly once Typhon joined the story in the third act.
Only character I can think of where they addressed the hate is Ava because she is an absolutely garbage character in the main story and ends up in a spot by the end of the game that makes no sense at all.
One of the later DLCs addressed this with giving players access to cut content and there are two pretty massive scenes that make Ava a significantly better character and they were both cut.
I don't remember any actual DLC gameplay stuff that addressed her or any other character people might not like though.
Yeah I was talking about the final Directors cut dlc which added a pretty long quest chain with Ava. The thing is that it is still not nearly enough to justify that end game scene. Ava is quite literally a child. No matter what powers she might have, she is still a fucking kid. It is really obvious that the reason that whatever it was that made borderlands 2 so good is no longer present at gearbox. Maybe they can find it again in wonderland but I have my doubts.
Even better: Start the cutscene BEFORE the boss or even during it. So that there is a reason this is happening, because you're literally fighting the boss as it's going down so you're firmly distracted.
Quite. BL2 had a scene kinda like this after the Angel-Room fight and you can easily see it go down because...
...a) Jack teleports in right behind Roland with a sneak attack and b) Lilith makes the first move in blind anger and Jack's ready for her. By the time the VHs could do anything, Jack's already got Lilith collared and up against him hostage-style. That and the huge fight just to GET to the Angel-Room in the first place plus the boss fight after means they're likely spent. As opposed to certain BL3 cutscenes where I can only imagine the VHs giving a collective shrug and going "we'll wait over there until this ends".
BL3’s greatest writing sin is that it’s just not funny. I’d be willing to forgive everything else if the humor wasn’t so terrible.
I'm to the point that my purchase of Wonderlands hinges on the writing. I mean, I can get that a shortened dev cycle can wreck the overall plot and characterization, but they can't even squeeze some memorable one-liners in Borderlands 3? Then again the writing for the wedding DLC was much better, so maybe there's hope?
I'm surprised by how the bad writing utterly smothered my interest in BL3. I love the games, I've played through all of them multiple times, and the gameplay of BL3 is great!
I'm cautiously optimistic about Wonderlands but I don't know if I'll check it out at launch or wait a while.
BL3’s greatest writing sin is that it’s just not funny. I’d be willing to forgive everything else if the humor wasn’t so terrible.
I'm to the point that my purchase of Wonderlands hinges on the writing. I mean, I can get that a shortened dev cycle can wreck the overall plot and characterization, but they can't even squeeze some memorable one-liners in Borderlands 3? Then again the writing for the wedding DLC was much better, so maybe there's hope?
Considering some of the DLC actually had enjoyable humor, I can only assume someone on the dev team interfered with the writing. My pet theory is that Pitchford is responsible, but that’s mostly because he’s an ass. If the new game has shitty writing too, I’ll just default to listening to podcasts while playing to drown out the awful.
Is it possible that the humor is missing because the characters are bad? The twins are the worst antagonists of the series. And that includes BL1 that didn't even have a central antagonist. A game with no central antagonist is better than a game with the twins. That's saying something.
Likewise, I found the 4 new vault hunters to be less likeable, less interesting, and less enjoyable than the other games.
I think the story itself hinders good humor. BL1 and BL2 were just playing up the insanity of the post apocalyptic setting. The humor was found in just how utterly insane the world is. But in BL3 they tried to go with a "cultural relevancy" angle by making the twins into twitch streamers and trying to ground the game in 2018-2019 internet culture. And I think they executed it terribly. But I also think that concept is just bad. The execution could have been better, but it still would have been good execution on a bad idea.
BL3’s greatest writing sin is that it’s just not funny. I’d be willing to forgive everything else if the humor wasn’t so terrible.
I'm to the point that my purchase of Wonderlands hinges on the writing. I mean, I can get that a shortened dev cycle can wreck the overall plot and characterization, but they can't even squeeze some memorable one-liners in Borderlands 3? Then again the writing for the wedding DLC was much better, so maybe there's hope?
Considering some of the DLC actually had enjoyable humor, I can only assume someone on the dev team interfered with the writing. My pet theory is that Pitchford is responsible, but that’s mostly because he’s an ass. If the new game has shitty writing too, I’ll just default to listening to podcasts while playing to drown out the awful.
I'd say the main problem is that two of their best BL2 writers left by the time 3 rolled around. Though that doesn't explain why the DLC writing got better. Did they hire somebody new?
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
0
Options
Dr. ChaosPost nuclear nuisanceRegistered Userregular
Is it possible that the humor is missing because the characters are bad? The twins are the worst antagonists of the series. And that includes BL1 that didn't even have a central antagonist. A game with no central antagonist is better than a game with the twins. That's saying something.
Likewise, I found the 4 new vault hunters to be less likeable, less interesting, and less enjoyable than the other games.
I think the story itself hinders good humor. BL1 and BL2 were just playing up the insanity of the post apocalyptic setting. The humor was found in just how utterly insane the world is. But in BL3 they tried to go with a "cultural relevancy" angle by making the twins into twitch streamers and trying to ground the game in 2018-2019 internet culture. And I think they executed it terribly. But I also think that concept is just bad. The execution could have been better, but it still would have been good execution on a bad idea.
Fl4k is a great character. The other hunters not so much.
I also really really disliked just how much screentime Hammerlock's husband got. He's boring as crap.
Hammerlock is one of Borderland's most genuinely funny and likable characters but now he's basically got this albatross around his neck and bogged down in drama.
I have to say I've never really cared about the writing in Borderlands one way or the other. It all just went in one ear and out the other. I've played all 3 games, and I couldn't tell you the plot to save my life. There are vaults, and I want to get them, and some people don't want me to get them? I dunno.
I have nothing against Epic or the Epic Game Store.
I just want all my PC Games on a single platform. That means waiting for the Steam release. EGS is totally fine. I just don't want to split my library.
Posts
Theres so many skeletons in this game, I want one.
What character are you talking about? I actually haven't played any of the DLC at all. Will probably tackle it all with my brother once we get there. Which likely is still a ways away, given the pace we're moving at.
Really the only thing I personally didn't like about BL3 was the twins. I was ok with all of the other characters. And I thought the story picked up significantly once Typhon joined the story in the third act.
I really miss antigravity and my laser weapons.
(maliwans crappy guns aren't the same)
Only character I can think of where they addressed the hate is Ava because she is an absolutely garbage character in the main story and ends up in a spot by the end of the game that makes no sense at all.
One of the later DLCs addressed this with giving players access to cut content and there are two pretty massive scenes that make Ava a significantly better character and they were both cut.
I don't remember any actual DLC gameplay stuff that addressed her or any other character people might not like though.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
They definitely wanted/had Ava take a big part at the end of the game.
End game spoilers
This video does a good job of breaking it down, at least I think it did. I haven't watched it in a while.
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't played through BL3 yet.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Its their flagship series, you would think they would give it the time. Another year couldn't have hurt.
Well, Battleborn was a complete flop on launch. They were probably able to ride Borderlands 2 money for a while but considering there were three years between Battleborn and Borderlands 3 with no other real big releases between, yeah, they probably felt major financial pressure.
Whats hilarious is the head writer early on said that players who didnt like Ava hadn't finished any of her sidequests so apparently nobody told the head writer they were cutting content
There was just the one, wasn't it? The one involving her diary.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
That's probably one of the game's biggest sins. Sure, your characters had unique dialogue depending on who you're playing but when it came to cutscenes, you were suddenly tossed into the Phantom Zone. Doomed to watch but never interfere. It got really bad during the first Vault and kept on from there.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Yeah I was talking about the final Directors cut dlc which added a pretty long quest chain with Ava. The thing is that it is still not nearly enough to justify that end game scene. Ava is quite literally a child. No matter what powers she might have, she is still a fucking kid. It is really obvious that the reason that whatever it was that made borderlands 2 so good is no longer present at gearbox. Maybe they can find it again in wonderland but I have my doubts.
PSN:Furlion
Quite. BL2 had a scene kinda like this after the Angel-Room fight and you can easily see it go down because...
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
I'm to the point that my purchase of Wonderlands hinges on the writing. I mean, I can get that a shortened dev cycle can wreck the overall plot and characterization, but they can't even squeeze some memorable one-liners in Borderlands 3? Then again the writing for the wedding DLC was much better, so maybe there's hope?
I'm cautiously optimistic about Wonderlands but I don't know if I'll check it out at launch or wait a while.
Likewise, I found the 4 new vault hunters to be less likeable, less interesting, and less enjoyable than the other games.
I think the story itself hinders good humor. BL1 and BL2 were just playing up the insanity of the post apocalyptic setting. The humor was found in just how utterly insane the world is. But in BL3 they tried to go with a "cultural relevancy" angle by making the twins into twitch streamers and trying to ground the game in 2018-2019 internet culture. And I think they executed it terribly. But I also think that concept is just bad. The execution could have been better, but it still would have been good execution on a bad idea.
I'd say the main problem is that two of their best BL2 writers left by the time 3 rolled around. Though that doesn't explain why the DLC writing got better. Did they hire somebody new?
I also really really disliked just how much screentime Hammerlock's husband got. He's boring as crap.
Hammerlock is one of Borderland's most genuinely funny and likable characters but now he's basically got this albatross around his neck and bogged down in drama.
I just want all my PC Games on a single platform. That means waiting for the Steam release. EGS is totally fine. I just don't want to split my library.
A bit of weird surprise? Gearbox just released Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep as a standalone release for $10.
Not that weird considering they want to hype Wonderlands.
Doh.
Especially since they titled it Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep: A Wonderlands One-Shot Adventure