I love how Russell's nickname is now Mr Saturday - and sure enough, pulled out another Q2 appearance. Will be starting at the back though after a 5 place grid penalty for not slowing (enough?) under yellows
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Any Project Cars 2 veterans, I'm a little frustrated with Formula C and wondering if Formula Renault or Formula 3.5 get better. I know a little bit of it is that I'm playing on a controller, which makes minor errors that would be correctable more likely to be spins and day ruiners. But I'm more frustrated by having to futz with setups, and then occasionally having it not matter anyway. For example right now I'm in the world championship fighting with Bathurst, where Sloppy's tune is bizarre (because he did it pre-tire-fix and used wets in the dry), and a couple time trial tunes I tried are great in the time trial but can't get any daggone heat in the tires during the race, because it's 58F ambient and the track is like 77F. When the car is working right (on some tracks) it can be a lot of fun but then on others you're just driving soooo delicately and praying some tiny little thing doesn't happen to throw away the last 15 minutes of your life.
If the Formula Renault or 3.5 aren't more drivable/have the same cold tire issues on some career tracks, I'm just going to switch paths to the touring cars or Ginettas or something. They're better, right? Or do I just need to give up on the more simmy stuff until I have a wheel again?
The "formula" series cars tended to be a little spin happy, in my experience (also controller). Formula C was, for me, un-drivable without turning TC on.
I'm sure you've figured this out, but the main cause is too much throttle too soon out of the corner, and sometimes you just need to wait for the car to stabilize before hitting it. Some of the other series are a lot more user friendly, IMO, but yeah without fine throttle control from a wheel/pedal it's tough sometimes.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I really liked fr3.5 in pcars2
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
Formula cars, if correctly modeled, are going to be twitchy as hell on a controller. They are super aero sensitive, so if you get the car out of shape, you not only lose mechanical grip, but you can stall the aero. I'm fairly sure PCars2 is modeled well enough to have this effect and I would imagine on a controller it's very hard to catch. It can be tough to catch with a top end wheel if your reactions aren't quick and you don't recognize the oversteer quick enough.
That's what I'm probably aiming for, and hopefully by year's end I'll get started on it. Maybe minus the Heusinkveld's and using something a bit more affordable. :rotate:
But please do share your experience with it, specially the P1-X and how it's going. :biggrin:
Some big impacts in both cases. Certainly looked like a failure for Kvyat.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
David Coulthard has 100% taken a rude commentary bet "what you really want is a facial because when it's coming up the rear you get a lot of instability" *pointed pause from his co-commentator* "well..thanks for that DC" This is after "hard and long is the best strategy" from earlier, it's full Kenneth Williams over on channel 4.
It worked out - just, but bloody hell. One of your cars just had a tyre go, your chief rival is over 30s behind. Why not just change them? Bloody stupid.
Now the question is, did they NEED to pit Verstappen?
The answer is "probably not", but there's also the fact that it wasn't just Bottas that had issues with the tyre. So you bet on trying for a win, but risk losing everything (because Albon was so far back), or go for a safe 2nd place.
Now the question is, did they NEED to pit Verstappen?
No, but the lure of the fastest lap is too strong.
99 times out of 100 that was the right thing to do...
Thing is, they had the fastest lap. Albon having it or Verstappen having it should make no difference to the team.
Red Bull is, right now, 14 points ahead of McLaren in the Constructor's Standings. If they had waited to see if Max's tyre delaminated they would probably be seeing that gap be much shorter or even having been surpassed, depending on where on track it happens. The WDC is gone, but the fight for second with McLaren is what really matters for them.
Now the question is, did they NEED to pit Verstappen?
No, but the lure of the fastest lap is too strong.
99 times out of 100 that was the right thing to do...
Thing is, they had the fastest lap. Albon having it or Verstappen having it should make no difference to the team.
True, but they'll let the driver take a crack at it if they can do so without losing a place.
On C4, Horner said it was an actual tyre stop as well as Max was reporting a vibration and they weren't sure it would make it. Might've been a bit of hindsight there, but he's usually pretty honest.
Fair enough, I wasn't sure if Verstappen needed the stop due to wear or not. Since he did, that's a no brainer.
More generally, would have been an easy cruise for Merc + Hamilton but for the tyre issue. I genuinely cannot fathom why they didn't do a precautionary stop. Aside from the remote chance of a botched stop there was no risk whatsoever. Hell, even with a botched stop they probably had enough time to cover Verstappen.
The amount of tyre issues is a cause for concern though. There were definite failures on Bottas, Hamilton and Sainz. Also a possible failure on Kvyat. The later failures on the hard tyres were particularly stange given that they should have been able to go that distance. With softer compounds next week I wonder if they'll take an overall more cautious approach?
The midfield was quite interesting to follow. A lot of fairly close fighting throughout. Most surprised by how relatively poor racing point have been. For a car touted as the 'pink mercedes', their pace certainly wasn't a problem for any of the other teams. Still a pity that Hulkenberg didn't even get to start. Never great when you can't get two cars to start the race.
I was all prepared to come post in here that other than a couple interesting overtakes in the midfield, this was an excruciatingly boring race. Last couple laps saw the chaos dragon take a few nibbles though, so that ended up being fun to watch.
Hopeful for next week with the slight changes and maybe Hulk can get a fair run in.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
That's what I'm probably aiming for, and hopefully by year's end I'll get started on it. Maybe minus the Heusinkveld's and using something a bit more affordable. :rotate:
But please do share your experience with it, specially the P1-X and how it's going. :biggrin:
It's a quality 80/20 kit, that's for damn sure. It came well packaged, had every fastener and bit you could imagine, and the accessories are nice. I think the feet add on is really nice. The pedal sliders is nice but was a total pain in the ass to get installed. When the Sparco sliders came out of the box they basically wouldn't move, all the grease was pooled at the ends and I had to bop them a bunch with a mallet to get them to move and get the grease to spread around. You can't install them without them moving, because you can't reach the fastening holes. The entire pedal plate section took probably half the total build time. The sliders are solid as hell though, absolutely no movement or flex when they are clicked in place, so no worries about the pedal plate moving at all even when I push the brake all the way to it's maximum force (about 150lbs on my Heusinkveld Pros).
Speaking of build, having a second set of hands is very helpful. I did it mostly alone, with some occasional help from my 12 year old, but having another adult human who can hold things would have made the job significantly easier. Ditto for making adjustments to things like the pedal assembly and wheel base mount. Once it is built though, good lord is it rigid. I could jump up and down on the wheel base area and it wouldn't budge. Getting my seat mounted required me to think out the box a little since I have the EVO XL. I'm just over a 36" waist, which is the cut off between the L and XL on the Sparco EVO, so I went with the XL since I'm not actually moving so having something not tight around my body is more comfortable. The seat is wide enough that you have to mount it as outboard as possible on the frame, but it does fit, and hey, making sure it's centered was really easy :biggrin:
I have a couple more accessories on the way. A keyboard tray, mouse pad, side mounting assembly and a Fanatec shifter mount since I'm finally getting an H-patterns shifter now that I have a rig dedicated to just driving. Those were out of stock when they shipped my main rig, so they'll be coming soon. Overall I'm incredibly happy. I'm completely sold on 80/20 now. It's so adjustable and customamizable it's incredible. It really is a big erector set for industrial style projects. I'm glad I ordered a kit as well, versus trying to source it all myself. I certainly paid a premium for it, versus just buying all the parts from the 80/20 website, but I didn't have to worry about any parts missing or any length issues or having to cut any aluminum. I now also have more T-nuts and screws and connector pieces than I could ever use, leaving me in a position to customize to my hearts content.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Just finished watching the race...
That was interesting. I guess when you have 87 wins, occasionally something new and random is going to happen and it did for Lewis today. Overall I thought the race was decent. Bottas certainly was pushing Hamilton early which we want to see. Those Mercedes trading fast laps is breathtaking and about the best action we're going to get at the front. The midfield was wild, which it always is. Hopefully post-2022 that's how all the racing becomes.
As far as people suggesting Hamilton should have pulled over, or gotten a penalty for doing something unsafe...get out of here. People are grasping at straws to take a victory away from him. He wasn't shedding parts from his car, or chunks of tire, it was the last lap and the stewards didn't show him the meatball. He had every right to try and complete the race and get the victory.
Fair enough, I wasn't sure if Verstappen needed the stop due to wear or not. Since he did, that's a no brainer.
More generally, would have been an easy cruise for Merc + Hamilton but for the tyre issue. I genuinely cannot fathom why they didn't do a precautionary stop. Aside from the remote chance of a botched stop there was no risk whatsoever. Hell, even with a botched stop they probably had enough time to cover Verstappen.
The amount of tyre issues is a cause for concern though. There were definite failures on Bottas, Hamilton and Sainz. Also a possible failure on Kvyat. The later failures on the hard tyres were particularly stange given that they should have been able to go that distance. With softer compounds next week I wonder if they'll take an overall more cautious approach?
The midfield was quite interesting to follow. A lot of fairly close fighting throughout. Most surprised by how relatively poor racing point have been. For a car touted as the 'pink mercedes', their pace certainly wasn't a problem for any of the other teams. Still a pity that Hulkenberg didn't even get to start. Never great when you can't get two cars to start the race.
Yeah that was a shit weekend all round for Racing Point. Only one car making the grid and losing to both Renaults and an AlphaTauri is a big oof.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Fair enough, I wasn't sure if Verstappen needed the stop due to wear or not. Since he did, that's a no brainer.
More generally, would have been an easy cruise for Merc + Hamilton but for the tyre issue. I genuinely cannot fathom why they didn't do a precautionary stop. Aside from the remote chance of a botched stop there was no risk whatsoever. Hell, even with a botched stop they probably had enough time to cover Verstappen.
The amount of tyre issues is a cause for concern though. There were definite failures on Bottas, Hamilton and Sainz. Also a possible failure on Kvyat. The later failures on the hard tyres were particularly stange given that they should have been able to go that distance. With softer compounds next week I wonder if they'll take an overall more cautious approach?
The midfield was quite interesting to follow. A lot of fairly close fighting throughout. Most surprised by how relatively poor racing point have been. For a car touted as the 'pink mercedes', their pace certainly wasn't a problem for any of the other teams. Still a pity that Hulkenberg didn't even get to start. Never great when you can't get two cars to start the race.
Yeah that was a shit weekend all round for Racing Point. Only one car making the grid and losing to both Renaults and an AlphaTauri is a big oof.
From the way Stroll's car fell off towards the end I'm pretty certain he was hit by a variation of whatever got Hulkenberg, either something was broken or he was nursing a very sick car.
I'm most gutted for Sainz's puncture/blowout though, McLaren so close to yet another excellent finish
Hamilton did a hell of a job actually briging that car home on that last lap. The onboard video with team radio shows a remarkable calmness, adjusting the diff etc to adapt for the blown tyre and going just fast enough to make it without ripping the tyre apart. A hell of a lot of luck involved even at that, but well managed all the same. Bottas was nowhere near as lucky with the tyre failing at literally the worst point on the track.
The tyre failures themselves should not have happened under normal conditions. If it were down to wear alone, you'd expect the tyre performance to drop off in a predictable manner long before catastrophic failure. Bottas and Sainz did report issues with the tyre, but Hamilton reported no issues bar a blister on the front right. There's speculation debris may have played a part, possibly from Kimi's front wing, but nothing confirmed yet.
A couple of notable bad drives this weekend. Vettel has just had a torrid time all weekend, with his car barely functioning and missing most of the practice sessions because of it. He may not be done with F1 but he's definitely done with Ferrari - and who could blame him? It has been clear since Monza last year that Leclerc is the 'golden child' of Ferrari, and they're not interested in helping Vettel at all (and indeed, have dipped into active sabotage on at least one occasion - Russia last year). It's bad enough that Vettel didn't even reply to them on the post race radio. Terrible way to treat a driver that led the team for the past couple of years.
Grosjean's defensive driving was terrible and should have copped a penalty. The black and white flag system seems to be "you'll get one warning, then we'll ignore anything after that". He's a driver that you often wonder how he's still around. His development feedback would have to be bloody good to justify it. The strategy was also a bit akward really - pass on a free pit stop, act as a mobile chicane and come out of the pits somewhere around last when you do stop again.
Albon had a pretty dire weekend as well. Wrecked the car in practice, failed to make Q3 and had a collision in the race. His recovery drive was decent, but it's better not to need a recovery drive in the first place - certainly not a self inflicted one. The pressure is mounting and perhaps his only saving grace is that Red Bull literally don't have anyone else (unless they want to swallow their pride and re-promote somebody they've dropped before). I'm still of the opinion that they need somebody experienced at least, but with Vettel seemingly off the market they'd have to hire outside their driver program.
Finally Kimi just seems to be having a miserable time all round. Wouldn't be surprised if he retires this year, and arguably should have done so quite a while ago already.
altid on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Think I'm going to need to drop the pedal tray on my new setup one notch. I like the more aggressive knees up driving position, it overall feels good...but I think it's just a touch too much right now. I'm going to give it a few days because it's a pain to drop the tray a level and I want to make sure I'm not just reacting to it because it's very different from my old rig.
Fair enough, I wasn't sure if Verstappen needed the stop due to wear or not. Since he did, that's a no brainer.
More generally, would have been an easy cruise for Merc + Hamilton but for the tyre issue. I genuinely cannot fathom why they didn't do a precautionary stop. Aside from the remote chance of a botched stop there was no risk whatsoever. Hell, even with a botched stop they probably had enough time to cover Verstappen.
The amount of tyre issues is a cause for concern though. There were definite failures on Bottas, Hamilton and Sainz. Also a possible failure on Kvyat. The later failures on the hard tyres were particularly stange given that they should have been able to go that distance. With softer compounds next week I wonder if they'll take an overall more cautious approach?
The midfield was quite interesting to follow. A lot of fairly close fighting throughout. Most surprised by how relatively poor racing point have been. For a car touted as the 'pink mercedes', their pace certainly wasn't a problem for any of the other teams. Still a pity that Hulkenberg didn't even get to start. Never great when you can't get two cars to start the race.
The hards were rated for 40 laps, they were all stretching them a fair few laps beyond that.
Red Bull badly needed to keep Ricciardo. Hurt them when they lost Seb but that was basically unavoidable and wasn't too long before Max came through. Losing Ricciardo was very avoidable and they don't have anything close to another driver of that level coming any time soon.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
At the same time, look how everyone but Max has struggled in that car. Ricciardo saw the writing on the wall. Red Bull was always going to put all their eggs in the Max basket, to the point of tailoring the car so much for his driving style and talent that so far everyone else has looked rubbish in the second car despite being quality racing drivers. Not that Gasly or Albon are at Daniel's level, but they aren't trash drivers either.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The fact that there's now been two drivers in that situation who both excelled in Toro Rosso suggests the problem is with Red Bull, not the two drivers.
Posts
I love how Russell's nickname is now Mr Saturday - and sure enough, pulled out another Q2 appearance. Will be starting at the back though after a 5 place grid penalty for not slowing (enough?) under yellows
If the Formula Renault or 3.5 aren't more drivable/have the same cold tire issues on some career tracks, I'm just going to switch paths to the touring cars or Ginettas or something. They're better, right? Or do I just need to give up on the more simmy stuff until I have a wheel again?
I'm sure you've figured this out, but the main cause is too much throttle too soon out of the corner, and sometimes you just need to wait for the car to stabilize before hitting it. Some of the other series are a lot more user friendly, IMO, but yeah without fine throttle control from a wheel/pedal it's tough sometimes.
Awesome.
That's what I'm probably aiming for, and hopefully by year's end I'll get started on it. Maybe minus the Heusinkveld's and using something a bit more affordable. :rotate:
But please do share your experience with it, specially the P1-X and how it's going. :biggrin:
Steam | XBL
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
(Sorry, that's all I got.)
Steam | XBL
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Hell, the only thing that makes it even more interesting is the fact that next week we're having one click softer tyres.
Now the question is, did they NEED to pit Verstappen?
99 times out of 100 that was the right thing to do...
Steam | XBL
On C4, Horner said it was an actual tyre stop as well as Max was reporting a vibration and they weren't sure it would make it. Might've been a bit of hindsight there, but he's usually pretty honest.
Steam | XBL
More generally, would have been an easy cruise for Merc + Hamilton but for the tyre issue. I genuinely cannot fathom why they didn't do a precautionary stop. Aside from the remote chance of a botched stop there was no risk whatsoever. Hell, even with a botched stop they probably had enough time to cover Verstappen.
The amount of tyre issues is a cause for concern though. There were definite failures on Bottas, Hamilton and Sainz. Also a possible failure on Kvyat. The later failures on the hard tyres were particularly stange given that they should have been able to go that distance. With softer compounds next week I wonder if they'll take an overall more cautious approach?
The midfield was quite interesting to follow. A lot of fairly close fighting throughout. Most surprised by how relatively poor racing point have been. For a car touted as the 'pink mercedes', their pace certainly wasn't a problem for any of the other teams. Still a pity that Hulkenberg didn't even get to start. Never great when you can't get two cars to start the race.
Hopeful for next week with the slight changes and maybe Hulk can get a fair run in.
It's a quality 80/20 kit, that's for damn sure. It came well packaged, had every fastener and bit you could imagine, and the accessories are nice. I think the feet add on is really nice. The pedal sliders is nice but was a total pain in the ass to get installed. When the Sparco sliders came out of the box they basically wouldn't move, all the grease was pooled at the ends and I had to bop them a bunch with a mallet to get them to move and get the grease to spread around. You can't install them without them moving, because you can't reach the fastening holes. The entire pedal plate section took probably half the total build time. The sliders are solid as hell though, absolutely no movement or flex when they are clicked in place, so no worries about the pedal plate moving at all even when I push the brake all the way to it's maximum force (about 150lbs on my Heusinkveld Pros).
Speaking of build, having a second set of hands is very helpful. I did it mostly alone, with some occasional help from my 12 year old, but having another adult human who can hold things would have made the job significantly easier. Ditto for making adjustments to things like the pedal assembly and wheel base mount. Once it is built though, good lord is it rigid. I could jump up and down on the wheel base area and it wouldn't budge. Getting my seat mounted required me to think out the box a little since I have the EVO XL. I'm just over a 36" waist, which is the cut off between the L and XL on the Sparco EVO, so I went with the XL since I'm not actually moving so having something not tight around my body is more comfortable. The seat is wide enough that you have to mount it as outboard as possible on the frame, but it does fit, and hey, making sure it's centered was really easy :biggrin:
I have a couple more accessories on the way. A keyboard tray, mouse pad, side mounting assembly and a Fanatec shifter mount since I'm finally getting an H-patterns shifter now that I have a rig dedicated to just driving. Those were out of stock when they shipped my main rig, so they'll be coming soon. Overall I'm incredibly happy. I'm completely sold on 80/20 now. It's so adjustable and customamizable it's incredible. It really is a big erector set for industrial style projects. I'm glad I ordered a kit as well, versus trying to source it all myself. I certainly paid a premium for it, versus just buying all the parts from the 80/20 website, but I didn't have to worry about any parts missing or any length issues or having to cut any aluminum. I now also have more T-nuts and screws and connector pieces than I could ever use, leaving me in a position to customize to my hearts content.
As far as people suggesting Hamilton should have pulled over, or gotten a penalty for doing something unsafe...get out of here. People are grasping at straws to take a victory away from him. He wasn't shedding parts from his car, or chunks of tire, it was the last lap and the stewards didn't show him the meatball. He had every right to try and complete the race and get the victory.
I'm most gutted for Sainz's puncture/blowout though, McLaren so close to yet another excellent finish
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
The tyre failures themselves should not have happened under normal conditions. If it were down to wear alone, you'd expect the tyre performance to drop off in a predictable manner long before catastrophic failure. Bottas and Sainz did report issues with the tyre, but Hamilton reported no issues bar a blister on the front right. There's speculation debris may have played a part, possibly from Kimi's front wing, but nothing confirmed yet.
A couple of notable bad drives this weekend. Vettel has just had a torrid time all weekend, with his car barely functioning and missing most of the practice sessions because of it. He may not be done with F1 but he's definitely done with Ferrari - and who could blame him? It has been clear since Monza last year that Leclerc is the 'golden child' of Ferrari, and they're not interested in helping Vettel at all (and indeed, have dipped into active sabotage on at least one occasion - Russia last year). It's bad enough that Vettel didn't even reply to them on the post race radio. Terrible way to treat a driver that led the team for the past couple of years.
Grosjean's defensive driving was terrible and should have copped a penalty. The black and white flag system seems to be "you'll get one warning, then we'll ignore anything after that". He's a driver that you often wonder how he's still around. His development feedback would have to be bloody good to justify it. The strategy was also a bit akward really - pass on a free pit stop, act as a mobile chicane and come out of the pits somewhere around last when you do stop again.
Albon had a pretty dire weekend as well. Wrecked the car in practice, failed to make Q3 and had a collision in the race. His recovery drive was decent, but it's better not to need a recovery drive in the first place - certainly not a self inflicted one. The pressure is mounting and perhaps his only saving grace is that Red Bull literally don't have anyone else (unless they want to swallow their pride and re-promote somebody they've dropped before). I'm still of the opinion that they need somebody experienced at least, but with Vettel seemingly off the market they'd have to hire outside their driver program.
Finally Kimi just seems to be having a miserable time all round. Wouldn't be surprised if he retires this year, and arguably should have done so quite a while ago already.
The hards were rated for 40 laps, they were all stretching them a fair few laps beyond that.