PolarisI am powerless against the sky.Registered Userregular
Lewis/Albon
From the on-board, it's clear the car stepped out, a penalty should usually be for a decision the driver made that they didn't - not sure what Lewis was expected to do instead, lift I guess ? But ok, we've seen things given for less or similar so I personally don't have any real complaints.
Phwoar, what a bloody race! I know we can piss and moan about Mercedes dominance in this thread a bit, but I'm viewing them less as a perfect racing team incapable of losing and more as the Ultimate Challenge that any team or driver must beat to be the champion. They're the threshold that they must resounding beat and while it's clear none of them are there yet, the yard stick is set. I look forward to seeing everyone try. Even if they don't succeed, the struggle is the point (and the entertainment!)
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Lando had the race of his life. Highest qualifying position, first podium and first fastest lap. Kind of overshadowed how great a race Sainz had finishing in am excellent P5, meticulously cutting through the midfield as he's known to do now. Their efforts combined have put their team second in the world championship. Very hard to see how their weekend could have gone any better. If I were part of that team, I would be pinging off my absolute fucking tits
Lando had the race of his life. Highest qualifying position, first podium and first fastest lap. Kind of overshadowed how great a race Sainz had finishing in am excellent P5, meticulously cutting through the midfield as he's known to do now. Their efforts combined have put their team second in the world championship. Very hard to see how their weekend could have gone any better. If I were part of that team, I would be pinging off my absolute fucking tits
Except Sainz also has to look forward to the wreckage of what's left of Ferrari for next year.
From the on-board, it's clear the car stepped out, a penalty should usually be for a decision the driver made that they didn't - not sure what Lewis was expected to do instead, lift I guess ? But ok, we've seen things given for less or similar so I personally don't have any real complaints.
Yes, the main thing would be that Albon is side-by-side on corner entry, but by apex and corner exit he's clearly ahead and gaining. The position was obviously his already and there was nothing Hamilton could have done to prevent that move at that point. The sensible thing to do would've been to let him by and then stick behind him to start attacking on next available DRS zone.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
It would've also been sensible for Albon to use the 10+ feet of space he had to his outside, but here we are. That's why I still fall on it being a racing incident.
It would've also been sensible for Albon to use the 10+ feet of space he had to his outside, but here we are. That's why I still fall on it being a racing incident.
He stayed side by side and made the pass cleanly and was going to the outside. Follow his line and he was actually going to go into the kerbs, which everyone was trying to avoid abusing or their cars seemed to blow up. At that point Hamilton also had like 20+ feet on the inside.
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Lando had the race of his life. Highest qualifying position, first podium and first fastest lap. Kind of overshadowed how great a race Sainz had finishing in am excellent P5, meticulously cutting through the midfield as he's known to do now. Their efforts combined have put their team second in the world championship. Very hard to see how their weekend could have gone any better. If I were part of that team, I would be pinging off my absolute fucking tits
That last lap was so wild, I know he got fresh tires off one of the safety cars but it's still cool to see a really hot lap that late in the race. And it felt like calculating Mercedes had gotten their podium safety back then woosh, he snatched it!
Albon drove too tightly into a gap that was always going to disappear - something he should have known considering how agressively he was doing it to Hamilton in the early laps. In those cases, Hamilton backed off on the outside and avoided contact. Even then he still could have made it work if he used the space given to him. Somewhat clumbsy racecraft from Albon, especially given that the car on the outside will likely come off worse. Racing incident at worst with a penalty based on the outcome rather than the actions.
Outside of technical issues, Hamilton seemed to be the fastest car on track by a good margin for most of the race. After clearing Albon + Verstappen's car failing, he closed a ~7.7 second gap down to ~3.8 seconds before the SC came out. After the safety car he held firmly within 1s of Bottas for ages before technical issues forced the fight to be called off. In a straight fight I imagine he would have passed Bottas eventually. I am assuming that Bottas and Hamilton had issues at the same time however. Not pitting a second time under the later SC was a strategic blunder by Merc, but again may have been brought about by technical issues.
Hard to get a judge of the actual pace of the rest of the teams yet beyond some fairly broad strokes. Verstappen retired too early while on a different strategy to really judge the Red Bull pace. Racing Point didn't run away from the midfield, but were also hindered by engine issues (Stroll) and not changing tyres under the SC (Perez). Ferrari looked very messy. Vettel's car looked particularly twitchy to the point where he even said he was lucky only to spin once. Ricciardo also dropped out too early to judge pace due to technical issues.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Albon drove too tightly into a gap that was always going to disappear - something he should have known considering how agressively he was doing it to Hamilton in the early laps. In those cases, Hamilton backed off on the outside and avoided contact. Even then he still could have made it work if he used the space given to him. Somewhat clumbsy racecraft from Albon, especially given that the car on the outside will likely come off worse. Racing incident at worst with a penalty based on the outcome rather than the actions.
none of this is correct.
Albon didn't drive into a gap, he was alongside at corner entry and almost a full car length ahead by mid corner and exit. Hamilton should have known he was done and conceded the position.
he had no further space, look at his line it is blindingly obvious that continuing his line was directly into the gravel.
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both. Albon still has plenty of room that he could have used.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
mid corner; Albon was significantly ahead before they even got to the apex. Hamilton should have got off the throttle far earlier and conceded the corner, but instead allowed his car to understeer wide directly into Albon.
corner exit; this is barely enough space at this exact moment, and hamilton's trajectory as it stands is only going to narrow the gap
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Albon still has plenty of room that he could have used.
Also disagree. Albon is not at the edge of the track yet but if he went wider, he would have gone into the gravel at his speed.
There is a reason that F1 rules about wheel to wheel combat are carefully crafted to ensure that using your slower car as a physical barrier is not permitted, and this is essentially what Hamilton did. He left the door open around the outside and drove through the middle of the track through the entire corner, leaving insufficient space on corner exit for a faster car that had already won the corner and was already ahead.
the only defense of hamilton I can muster is that you really can't just tap your brake in a car like that... he picked his line before it was clear that Albon was going to have a 10kph advantage on the outside mid-corner, and he's on full lock pretty much the whole time
without seeing pedal data it's hard to say. it's clear that Hamilton decided that it was his corner, but that decision was probably made before it was obvious that it was not, in fact, his corner, by which time there wasn't a lot he could do
there's a justifiable sadness that, regardless of "fault", the mistake is clearly on Hamilton, and it so happens that when these cars touch, the faster/ahead one always seems to get shafted
and then also a justifiable outrage that it feels like when Hamilton gets passed on track over the last 5 years, 80% of the time he ends up wrecking the car trying to pass him
I just watched the race from Latifi's perspective (because I'm insane and like watching the same race over and over I guess), and it's plainly obvious how incredibly frustrating it is to drive the Williams. When they turn up the engine, it has some serious pace to at least stay with the others, but of course cannot maintain it and everyone else has another level they can push to that leaves the Williams in the dust. The last few laps were fun to watch from Latifi though, cars exploding in front of him and he's able to not panic to make it through the carnage.
I watched the highlights of the race, sure did seem like a lot of cars with wheels falling off. Also the announcers seemed a little too excitable, but it's the first race of a season that was nearly canceled entirely so I can forgive that. Interesting result, it will be fun to see how things shake out going forward but I am expecting Mercedes domination.
In sim racing news, I went back into PC2 and this time picked a car that is less of a handful. I think it was a G40 Junior or something? Anyway it has like 100 HP and is RWD. Went back to Road America (one of the only tracks I have actually been to) and saw that the record lap in game for that car + track combination was a 2:49.something. I did way better I feel, with my best lap clocking in at 2:59.something with a potential 2:57 and I know there is still time to be had by cleaning up my line. I think stepping back from the big boy race cars, and paying more attention to what the car is doing is really helping. Relearning some basics (like many cars really don't like to steer while braking!) with a more manageable vehicle is definitely working out I feel. The sense of improvement is real, and very satisfying.
It seems like I'm doing something wrong with PC2 though, because when I leave a session it doesn't seem to save my results at all? Or is that just because I'm using a custom testing session and not like an actual race?
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
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PolarisI am powerless against the sky.Registered Userregular
and then also a justifiable outrage that it feels like when Hamilton gets passed on track over the last 5 years, 80% of the time he ends up wrecking the car trying to pass him
I was talking about to a friend afterwards and we postulated that the Merc is just inherently more stable due to the 'low rake, long wheelbase' design they uniquely (?) have. The spinny Ferrari of 2018 and the RB do always seem to come off second best against the Mercs in these situations.
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Red Raevynbecause I only take Bubble BathsRegistered Userregular
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
I think you're wildly relying on hindsight and also being unreasonable about how much grip a driver has available mid-corner. He chose his line through the corner before Albon was there.
First of all that's not corner entry, it's well after. Look at the actual entry, from an on-board perspective, and think about it as a driver:
braking at 50m, Albon not even alongside
This is when Hamilton starts turning, so he's picked his line - no Albon
Here he's solidly turning in: at this point you more or less can't change your line - no Albon
Now he's completely committed, and Albon is still on his way, not even fully alongside never mind ahead.
You need to be in position coming into the corner, not approaching with enough momentum that it would work if the other car magically didn't exist. Moving faster isn't right-of-way in a turn. Heck Vettel was coming into T1 faster than Sainz but we aren't going to argue Sainz should have left him room
Watch it frame by frame, Hamilton has the steering lock pegged from mid-corner until contact, there simply wasn't any reasonable action he could take. Acting like he should just conjure up magical grip to "leave more space" or "choose a better line" is ludicrous. You attack the corner, you don't mosey through at 8/10ths in case someone dive bombs you.
I think if it was Grosjean or Maldonado trying to make that outside pass no one would be conuring these spurious hypotheticals for the inside driver to do. I like Albon a lot, even watched him do some e-racing during the break. I don't disagree that a win may have been possible for him in that scenario, but he was impatient and he goofed. He was way faster on those tires and there was no reason to go for a risky outside move on a corner like that one. Bide your time and make a clean pass.
and then also a justifiable outrage that it feels like when Hamilton gets passed on track over the last 5 years, 80% of the time he ends up wrecking the car trying to pass him
I was talking about to a friend afterwards and we postulated that the Merc is just inherently more stable due to the 'low rake, long wheelbase' design they uniquely (?) have. The spinny Ferrari of 2018 and the RB do always seem to come off second best against the Mercs in these situations.
the cars, all the cars, are just way more stable at the front.... they've probably got 3x more aero than they need pushing that front axle down and they don't have a giant damn KERS system hooked up to those wheels (as far as I know) creating all kinds of weird forces on the tires there
it so happens that whenever Mercedes has to deal with other cars, its usually them being passed for the lead, and.. well that's all I really have to say. The viewer can judge... but I'm running out of fingers to count how many times Hamilton has wrecked his teammates and championship contenders on passes for podium positions... and although it this case it doesn't look intentional at all... I think people are right to question it
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Hamilton either has a weird coincidence where he keeps coming out on top in these situations while looking relatively innocent, or he's mastered how to make an intentionally overaggressive defense look like a racing incident.
He saw Albon coming and knew the move was coming well before he chose his line, and he chose a line that would not leave enough space on the outside. Whether he unwound the steering or not is irrelevant.
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
OK here comes my initial entry into the F1 2019 lap time competition. After a decently long session at Hungary, I have managed a 1:21.966. Still a far cry from what I would call good, but definitely better than the 1:26.277 I managed in my first session. Screenshot in the spoiler below.
Progress has been made, I might revisit this again later but for now I need to stop stressing myself out so I can eventually fall asleep. Entered my time on the spreadsheet as well for posterity.
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
I think you're wildly relying on hindsight and also being unreasonable about how much grip a driver has available mid-corner. He chose his line through the corner before Albon was there.
First of all that's not corner entry, it's well after. Look at the actual entry, from an on-board perspective, and think about it as a driver:
braking at 50m, Albon not even alongside
This is when Hamilton starts turning, so he's picked his line - no Albon
Here he's solidly turning in: at this point you more or less can't change your line - no Albon
Now he's completely committed, and Albon is still on his way, not even fully alongside never mind ahead.
You need to be in position coming into the corner, not approaching with enough momentum that it would work if the other car magically didn't exist. Moving faster isn't right-of-way in a turn. Heck Vettel was coming into T1 faster than Sainz but we aren't going to argue Sainz should have left him room
Watch it frame by frame, Hamilton has the steering lock pegged from mid-corner until contact, there simply wasn't any reasonable action he could take. Acting like he should just conjure up magical grip to "leave more space" or "choose a better line" is ludicrous. You attack the corner, you don't mosey through at 8/10ths in case someone dive bombs you.
I think if it was Grosjean or Maldonado trying to make that outside pass no one would be conuring these spurious hypotheticals for the inside driver to do. I like Albon a lot, even watched him do some e-racing during the break. I don't disagree that a win may have been possible for him in that scenario, but he was impatient and he goofed. He was way faster on those tires and there was no reason to go for a risky outside move on a corner like that one. Bide your time and make a clean pass.
So once they've picked a line everyone else is out of luck and they have no control over it? So if someone crashes in front they can't avoid it?
Hamilton could've not gone as full throttle as he would've in a normal track-in track-out and that would've let space on the outside on the exit. Like, I can buy that he didn't think Albon was going that much faster and tried to do his usual squeeze-em-out of the track, but not that he had no control over his racing line. Is it easy to do it? Nope, but that's why they pay them millions.
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Speaking of F1 2020: the My Team thingy is awesome!
It's a sort of Motorsport Manager Lite part bolted on to Driver Career, where you have to manage your team upgrades and sponsors, but now it includes events (like training events or merchandise selling events) and paying for facilities.
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Speaking of F1 2020: the My Team thingy is awesome!
It's a sort of Motorsport Manager Lite part bolted on to Driver Career, where you have to manage your team upgrades and sponsors, but now it includes events (like training events or merchandise selling events) and paying for facilities.
Like my top of the line simulation facility:
Yeah, I can't wait to try that out as well. A few YouTube creators have already put up videos for that mode.
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Speaking of F1 2020: the My Team thingy is awesome!
It's a sort of Motorsport Manager Lite part bolted on to Driver Career, where you have to manage your team upgrades and sponsors, but now it includes events (like training events or merchandise selling events) and paying for facilities.
Like my top of the line simulation facility:
Yeah, I can't wait to try that out as well. A few YouTube creators have already put up videos for that mode.
Which teammate did you go with?
Grabbed Mick Schumacher (in part because he was cheap). He didn't put much of a fight in the first GP, sadly.
And I love that also about career/my-team: If you choose the 16 or 10 races Championship, you get to choose which tracks you want!
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Depends who's picking up F1 2020 or not. 2019 has a few users here who may not be getting 2020 just yet (I'm probably going to wait on it due to present circumstances, for my part (25% off the regular edition at GMG made me crack! Dammit!), and we don't really know if using 2020 will be an advantage or disadvantage. We can always stick it in as its own category or something, or put it in the notes column.
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
I think you're wildly relying on hindsight and also being unreasonable about how much grip a driver has available mid-corner. He chose his line through the corner before Albon was there.
First of all that's not corner entry, it's well after. Look at the actual entry, from an on-board perspective, and think about it as a driver:
braking at 50m, Albon not even alongside
This is when Hamilton starts turning, so he's picked his line - no Albon
Here he's solidly turning in: at this point you more or less can't change your line - no Albon
Now he's completely committed, and Albon is still on his way, not even fully alongside never mind ahead.
You need to be in position coming into the corner, not approaching with enough momentum that it would work if the other car magically didn't exist. Moving faster isn't right-of-way in a turn. Heck Vettel was coming into T1 faster than Sainz but we aren't going to argue Sainz should have left him room
Watch it frame by frame, Hamilton has the steering lock pegged from mid-corner until contact, there simply wasn't any reasonable action he could take. Acting like he should just conjure up magical grip to "leave more space" or "choose a better line" is ludicrous. You attack the corner, you don't mosey through at 8/10ths in case someone dive bombs you.
I think if it was Grosjean or Maldonado trying to make that outside pass no one would be conuring these spurious hypotheticals for the inside driver to do. I like Albon a lot, even watched him do some e-racing during the break. I don't disagree that a win may have been possible for him in that scenario, but he was impatient and he goofed. He was way faster on those tires and there was no reason to go for a risky outside move on a corner like that one. Bide your time and make a clean pass.
So once they've picked a line everyone else is out of luck and they have no control over it? So if someone crashes in front they can't avoid it?
Hamilton could've not gone as full throttle as he would've in a normal track-in track-out and that would've let space on the outside on the exit. Like, I can buy that he didn't think Albon was going that much faster and tried to do his usual squeeze-em-out of the track, but not that he had no control over his racing line. Is it easy to do it? Nope, but that's why they pay them millions.
That's literally what he did though. Telemetry shows that he hold off throttle for absolutely ages compared to Bottas on the same lap. Evidence seems to matter little though when others are delving into conspiracy theory level stuff and insinuating that Hamilton deliberately rammed Albon for some reason.
Yes, he was alongside and got a better exit. That doesn't mean Hamilton's car is going to suddenly vanish. Hamilton chose a defensive line - which he is perfectly entitled to do - and left a reasonable amount of space to the outside. He had rightward steerling lock on, lifted off the throttle and at worst maintained his line. There's literally nothing else he can do at that point that doesn't result in a worse accident for both.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
I think you're wildly relying on hindsight and also being unreasonable about how much grip a driver has available mid-corner. He chose his line through the corner before Albon was there.
First of all that's not corner entry, it's well after. Look at the actual entry, from an on-board perspective, and think about it as a driver:
braking at 50m, Albon not even alongside
This is when Hamilton starts turning, so he's picked his line - no Albon
Here he's solidly turning in: at this point you more or less can't change your line - no Albon
Now he's completely committed, and Albon is still on his way, not even fully alongside never mind ahead.
You need to be in position coming into the corner, not approaching with enough momentum that it would work if the other car magically didn't exist. Moving faster isn't right-of-way in a turn. Heck Vettel was coming into T1 faster than Sainz but we aren't going to argue Sainz should have left him room
Watch it frame by frame, Hamilton has the steering lock pegged from mid-corner until contact, there simply wasn't any reasonable action he could take. Acting like he should just conjure up magical grip to "leave more space" or "choose a better line" is ludicrous. You attack the corner, you don't mosey through at 8/10ths in case someone dive bombs you.
I think if it was Grosjean or Maldonado trying to make that outside pass no one would be conuring these spurious hypotheticals for the inside driver to do. I like Albon a lot, even watched him do some e-racing during the break. I don't disagree that a win may have been possible for him in that scenario, but he was impatient and he goofed. He was way faster on those tires and there was no reason to go for a risky outside move on a corner like that one. Bide your time and make a clean pass.
So once they've picked a line everyone else is out of luck and they have no control over it? So if someone crashes in front they can't avoid it?
Hamilton could've not gone as full throttle as he would've in a normal track-in track-out and that would've let space on the outside on the exit. Like, I can buy that he didn't think Albon was going that much faster and tried to do his usual squeeze-em-out of the track, but not that he had no control over his racing line. Is it easy to do it? Nope, but that's why they pay them millions.
That's literally what he did though. Telemetry shows that he hold off throttle for absolutely ages compared to Bottas on the same lap. Evidence seems to matter little though when others are delving into conspiracy theory level stuff and insinuating that Hamilton deliberately rammed Albon for some reason.
If there's any telemetry out there, I'll take it. I just can't find anything close to it (other than some dude doing it by acoustics but even that is... sketchy.)
Notice how Bottas, who is in the clear and is on the same car/tyre combo did not do that tiny on-throttle before opening it fully? (Look at the timing, Hamilton is breathing that throttle at the same time Bottas is already full-throttle, but he was also ahead.) That's why the penalty was given, because that will open up the radius (which I bet he was doing to defend himself), but Albon was just that much faster than him and that got the wheels tangled up.
i look forward to him finishing in 9th place every week, making a huge stink about the car, getting fired, and finishing his career driving a GTD car in IMSA for the next decade as an ego boost
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
I thought Peter Windsor covered my thoughts on Hamilton/Alex perfectly. It's up to Alex to make that pass. Hamilton is only obliged to give him racing room, which he did in spades. I can't imagine the fact that Albon had racing room to be in question at this point. It's clear as day on video. Hamilton is on the inside, he's full lock to the right, trying to give Alex room and make the corner. Alex has 10 feet to his left he can slide out and still make a great run out of the corner and uses none of it, instead trying to squeeze down Hamilton to compromise his exit. Both drivers had options to avoid the situation that weren't inherently disadvantageous. For me, it remains a textbook example of a racing incident. I feel in the end Lewis got punished more for the result (Alex off and in last) than the actual incident. My hunch tells me if Albon continues with a minor bump and the fight continues no penalty is given.
The conspiracy theory stuff I just roll my eyes at. This is just F1 stewarding in it's full glory. Nothing here is abnormal or strange in terms of F1 stewardship. You have no idea what application of the rules you'll get week to week.
Curses, pipped again!
I'd tried quite a bit to improve on my time, but to no avail. I could do better in a lot of places, but never all on the same lap. Turn 5 and the following chicane were particularly hard for me. Would either go too fast and overshoot on T5, or too tight dropping a wheel onto the inside kerb and spinning out as a result. The kerbs on the chicane could really unsettle things and throw the car in all directions if I took too much.
Curses, pipped again!
I'd tried quite a bit to improve on my time, but to no avail. I could do better in a lot of places, but never all on the same lap. Turn 5 and the following chicane were particularly hard for me. Would either go too fast and overshoot on T5, or too tight dropping a wheel onto the inside kerb and spinning out as a result. The kerbs on the chicane could really unsettle things and throw the car in all directions if I took too much.
Those are parts I had trouble with too. Of course I wasn't above screwing up turn 2 or the exit of turn 4 as well. The kerb on the inside of 5 is a virtually guaranteed spin if you get the tyres onto it, and the sausage kerbs at the chicane are ready to throw you off if you clout them wrong. Get past them and the following sweepers are practically relaxing by comparison.
So, my copy of F1 2020 arrived yesterday and I got a chance to play last night. Its fun. I really like the new Zandvoort course, haven't tried Hanoi yet. Unfortunately, I don't have extensive knowledge of F1 2019, but my impression is, that its not that different in terms of gameplay. Of course, the new MyTeam mode is something completely new - but I haven't tried it out yet. There are a few bugs though - my game routinely froze in a loading screen.
Gonna try MyTeam next, from what I saw on YouTube it looks like fun.
I realised that between two versions (Xbox and PC), I dropped much more time into F1 2019 than the last several editions. Of course the PA Hot Laps contributed a lot to that, and the hours I racked up were trifling compared to many (or most), even just in our little corner of the internet. Probably a bit over 40 all told.
I wonder if 2020 will manage that or if I'll fall back into the 15-25 range again.
I can't actually remember when I last finished a season in one. Might've been like 2010 or something. I do tend to dip in and out of them for one-off goes rather than get stuck into an ongoing campaign, so I might bounce off My Team because of that. We'll see, I guess. It's probably going to be a while before I feel like getting more than just very, very occasional gaming of any kind going on, though.
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He stayed side by side and made the pass cleanly and was going to the outside. Follow his line and he was actually going to go into the kerbs, which everyone was trying to avoid abusing or their cars seemed to blow up. At that point Hamilton also had like 20+ feet on the inside.
Outside of technical issues, Hamilton seemed to be the fastest car on track by a good margin for most of the race. After clearing Albon + Verstappen's car failing, he closed a ~7.7 second gap down to ~3.8 seconds before the SC came out. After the safety car he held firmly within 1s of Bottas for ages before technical issues forced the fight to be called off. In a straight fight I imagine he would have passed Bottas eventually. I am assuming that Bottas and Hamilton had issues at the same time however. Not pitting a second time under the later SC was a strategic blunder by Merc, but again may have been brought about by technical issues.
Hard to get a judge of the actual pace of the rest of the teams yet beyond some fairly broad strokes. Verstappen retired too early while on a different strategy to really judge the Red Bull pace. Racing Point didn't run away from the midfield, but were also hindered by engine issues (Stroll) and not changing tyres under the SC (Perez). Ferrari looked very messy. Vettel's car looked particularly twitchy to the point where he even said he was lucky only to spin once. Ricciardo also dropped out too early to judge pace due to technical issues.
none of this is correct.
Albon didn't drive into a gap, he was alongside at corner entry and almost a full car length ahead by mid corner and exit. Hamilton should have known he was done and conceded the position.
he had no further space, look at his line it is blindingly obvious that continuing his line was directly into the gravel.
disagree he left enough space and disagree he had enough rightward steering lock on. hamilton should have chosen a better line through the corner.
corner entry; he'd already lost the corner by this point. Albon is fully alongside. (edit; and he's moving faster too, it's not like they were proceeding together at equal speeds into the corner)
mid corner; Albon was significantly ahead before they even got to the apex. Hamilton should have got off the throttle far earlier and conceded the corner, but instead allowed his car to understeer wide directly into Albon.
corner exit; this is barely enough space at this exact moment, and hamilton's trajectory as it stands is only going to narrow the gap
Also disagree. Albon is not at the edge of the track yet but if he went wider, he would have gone into the gravel at his speed.
There is a reason that F1 rules about wheel to wheel combat are carefully crafted to ensure that using your slower car as a physical barrier is not permitted, and this is essentially what Hamilton did. He left the door open around the outside and drove through the middle of the track through the entire corner, leaving insufficient space on corner exit for a faster car that had already won the corner and was already ahead.
without seeing pedal data it's hard to say. it's clear that Hamilton decided that it was his corner, but that decision was probably made before it was obvious that it was not, in fact, his corner, by which time there wasn't a lot he could do
there's a justifiable sadness that, regardless of "fault", the mistake is clearly on Hamilton, and it so happens that when these cars touch, the faster/ahead one always seems to get shafted
and then also a justifiable outrage that it feels like when Hamilton gets passed on track over the last 5 years, 80% of the time he ends up wrecking the car trying to pass him
In sim racing news, I went back into PC2 and this time picked a car that is less of a handful. I think it was a G40 Junior or something? Anyway it has like 100 HP and is RWD. Went back to Road America (one of the only tracks I have actually been to) and saw that the record lap in game for that car + track combination was a 2:49.something. I did way better I feel, with my best lap clocking in at 2:59.something with a potential 2:57 and I know there is still time to be had by cleaning up my line. I think stepping back from the big boy race cars, and paying more attention to what the car is doing is really helping. Relearning some basics (like many cars really don't like to steer while braking!) with a more manageable vehicle is definitely working out I feel. The sense of improvement is real, and very satisfying.
It seems like I'm doing something wrong with PC2 though, because when I leave a session it doesn't seem to save my results at all? Or is that just because I'm using a custom testing session and not like an actual race?
Oh and how do I go about submitting a time for the F1 2019 lap competition? Just post my (terrible) number, post a screenshot of the end of session scoreboard, something else?
First of all that's not corner entry, it's well after. Look at the actual entry, from an on-board perspective, and think about it as a driver:
braking at 50m, Albon not even alongside
This is when Hamilton starts turning, so he's picked his line - no Albon
Here he's solidly turning in: at this point you more or less can't change your line - no Albon
Now he's completely committed, and Albon is still on his way, not even fully alongside never mind ahead.
You need to be in position coming into the corner, not approaching with enough momentum that it would work if the other car magically didn't exist. Moving faster isn't right-of-way in a turn. Heck Vettel was coming into T1 faster than Sainz but we aren't going to argue Sainz should have left him room
Watch it frame by frame, Hamilton has the steering lock pegged from mid-corner until contact, there simply wasn't any reasonable action he could take. Acting like he should just conjure up magical grip to "leave more space" or "choose a better line" is ludicrous. You attack the corner, you don't mosey through at 8/10ths in case someone dive bombs you.
I think if it was Grosjean or Maldonado trying to make that outside pass no one would be conuring these spurious hypotheticals for the inside driver to do. I like Albon a lot, even watched him do some e-racing during the break. I don't disagree that a win may have been possible for him in that scenario, but he was impatient and he goofed. He was way faster on those tires and there was no reason to go for a risky outside move on a corner like that one. Bide your time and make a clean pass.
the cars, all the cars, are just way more stable at the front.... they've probably got 3x more aero than they need pushing that front axle down and they don't have a giant damn KERS system hooked up to those wheels (as far as I know) creating all kinds of weird forces on the tires there
it so happens that whenever Mercedes has to deal with other cars, its usually them being passed for the lead, and.. well that's all I really have to say. The viewer can judge... but I'm running out of fingers to count how many times Hamilton has wrecked his teammates and championship contenders on passes for podium positions... and although it this case it doesn't look intentional at all... I think people are right to question it
Hamilton either has a weird coincidence where he keeps coming out on top in these situations while looking relatively innocent, or he's mastered how to make an intentionally overaggressive defense look like a racing incident.
He saw Albon coming and knew the move was coming well before he chose his line, and he chose a line that would not leave enough space on the outside. Whether he unwound the steering or not is irrelevant.
A screenshot of the scoreboard is good, and post about it here, but just remember to pop your time into the relevant page of the spreadsheet (link in the OP).
Steam | XBL
Progress has been made, I might revisit this again later but for now I need to stop stressing myself out so I can eventually fall asleep. Entered my time on the spreadsheet as well for posterity.
So once they've picked a line everyone else is out of luck and they have no control over it? So if someone crashes in front they can't avoid it?
Hamilton could've not gone as full throttle as he would've in a normal track-in track-out and that would've let space on the outside on the exit. Like, I can buy that he didn't think Albon was going that much faster and tried to do his usual squeeze-em-out of the track, but not that he had no control over his racing line. Is it easy to do it? Nope, but that's why they pay them millions.
What about F1 2020? I get my copy today and on friday is regular street date.
Speaking of F1 2020: the My Team thingy is awesome!
It's a sort of Motorsport Manager Lite part bolted on to Driver Career, where you have to manage your team upgrades and sponsors, but now it includes events (like training events or merchandise selling events) and paying for facilities.
Like my top of the line simulation facility:
Yeah, I can't wait to try that out as well. A few YouTube creators have already put up videos for that mode.
Which teammate did you go with?
Grabbed Mick Schumacher (in part because he was cheap). He didn't put much of a fight in the first GP, sadly.
And I love that also about career/my-team: If you choose the 16 or 10 races Championship, you get to choose which tracks you want!
Depends who's picking up F1 2020 or not. 2019 has a few users here who may not be getting 2020 just yet (I'm probably going to wait on it due to present circumstances, for my part (25% off the regular edition at GMG made me crack! Dammit!), and we don't really know if using 2020 will be an advantage or disadvantage. We can always stick it in as its own category or something, or put it in the notes column.
Steam | XBL
That's literally what he did though. Telemetry shows that he hold off throttle for absolutely ages compared to Bottas on the same lap. Evidence seems to matter little though when others are delving into conspiracy theory level stuff and insinuating that Hamilton deliberately rammed Albon for some reason.
If there's any telemetry out there, I'll take it. I just can't find anything close to it (other than some dude doing it by acoustics but even that is... sketchy.)
EDIT:
https://streamable.com/3n22b7
Closest I could find. Now, assuming it is true...
Notice how Bottas, who is in the clear and is on the same car/tyre combo did not do that tiny on-throttle before opening it fully? (Look at the timing, Hamilton is breathing that throttle at the same time Bottas is already full-throttle, but he was also ahead.) That's why the penalty was given, because that will open up the radius (which I bet he was doing to defend himself), but Albon was just that much faster than him and that got the wheels tangled up.
The conspiracy theory stuff I just roll my eyes at. This is just F1 stewarding in it's full glory. Nothing here is abnormal or strange in terms of F1 stewardship. You have no idea what application of the rules you'll get week to week.
1:16.910.
Steam | XBL
I'd tried quite a bit to improve on my time, but to no avail. I could do better in a lot of places, but never all on the same lap. Turn 5 and the following chicane were particularly hard for me. Would either go too fast and overshoot on T5, or too tight dropping a wheel onto the inside kerb and spinning out as a result. The kerbs on the chicane could really unsettle things and throw the car in all directions if I took too much.
Those are parts I had trouble with too. Of course I wasn't above screwing up turn 2 or the exit of turn 4 as well. The kerb on the inside of 5 is a virtually guaranteed spin if you get the tyres onto it, and the sausage kerbs at the chicane are ready to throw you off if you clout them wrong. Get past them and the following sweepers are practically relaxing by comparison.
Steam | XBL
Welcome to F1, Zoomers!
Gonna try MyTeam next, from what I saw on YouTube it looks like fun.
I wonder if 2020 will manage that or if I'll fall back into the 15-25 range again.
I can't actually remember when I last finished a season in one. Might've been like 2010 or something. I do tend to dip in and out of them for one-off goes rather than get stuck into an ongoing campaign, so I might bounce off My Team because of that. We'll see, I guess. It's probably going to be a while before I feel like getting more than just very, very occasional gaming of any kind going on, though.
Steam | XBL