I got the sense from Bolton's lawyers that he wants to testify but wanted something in exchange. Like immunity.
From what I've read, its more that he doesn't want to look like he's willingly testifying against Trump. He wants to say he was forced to testify, and that since he's a law-abiding citizen, he was of course going to testify and *have* to tell the truth.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
I want one of these commentators to start into one of these screeds and either crack, openly admitting that this is insane and trump is a direct threat to the soul of the republic or have a siezure from their brain refusing to co-operate with their will.
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
I want one of these commentators to start into one of these screeds and either crack, openly admitting that this is insane and trump is a direct threat to the soul of the republic or have a siezure from their brain refusing to co-operate with their will.
The latter idea would have made the last twenty years a lot simpler.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
I got the sense from Bolton's lawyers that he wants to testify but wanted something in exchange. Like immunity.
From what I've read, its more that he doesn't want to look like he's willingly testifying against Trump. He wants to say he was forced to testify, and that since he's a law-abiding citizen, he was of course going to testify and *have* to tell the truth.
While at the same time, from those quotes above, it sounds like he knew how illegal this all was and did the smart thing of lawyering up and staying the fuck out of it all as much as he could.
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
Fox on the bribery allegation against Trump: "Well the framers obviously meant that the president couldn't take bribes, not that he couldn't offer them. Anyway, life is bribery, everyone does it all the time!"
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
Good to know that the next time I get pulled over for speeding it’s fine for me to offer the cop $50 to just let me go.
Although, he might pass since it’s illegal to accept my bribe.
But...this whole thing is about Trump asking for a bribe. He was obligated to release the aid, but wouldn't do it until Ukraine bribed him with political PR.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
This has always been true and was the plan all along. Conservatives are crowing about this being a coup because, in their minds, they are the only permissible and legitimate rulers of America. All others are either apostates or charlatans, and must be treated accordingly.
It annoys me quite a lot that they keep calling this a coup. It's so blatantly false in so many ways. This is a Constitutional remedy to Presidential malfeasance, it is explicitly legal and it won't even result in a Democratic President anyway even if Trump is removed. There are so many reasons why this isn't a coup or even anything remotely close.
It annoys me quite a lot that they keep calling this a coup. It's so blatantly false in so many ways. This is a Constitutional remedy to Presidential malfeasance, it is explicitly legal and it won't even result in a Democratic President anyway even if Trump is removed. There are so many reasons why this isn't a coup or even anything remotely close.
It's all fodder for their Deep State conspiracy theories and anti-elite/intellectualism bullshit lies. Marie Yovanovitch, a 33 year civil servant dutiful doing her job in war torn nation embassies, is considered an agent of the Deep State and a member of the 'elite', in their minds (hence this weird focus on and obsession with her finances).
Meanwhile, Trump is running shadow state department and backdoor dealings with zero accountability with Ukraine on top of Trump doing everything in his power to hide his own tax returns and financial records from the public eye while using his public office to reap substantial personal profit for himself, his family and cronies. It's all goddamn projection of the highest order.
The House of Representatives has the power to impeach the President of the United States. It says so in the fricken Constitution. So, no, not a coup, at all.
Barr running interference for Trump once again... why is this mofo not impeached yet alongside Trump?
It annoys me quite a lot that they keep calling this a coup. It's so blatantly false in so many ways. This is a Constitutional remedy to Presidential malfeasance, it is explicitly legal and it won't even result in a Democratic President anyway even if Trump is removed. There are so many reasons why this isn't a coup or even anything remotely close.
It's all fodder for their Deep State and anti-elite/intellectualism bullshit lies. Marie Yanonovich, a 33 year civil servant dutiful doing her job in war torn nation embassies, is considered an agent of the Deep State and a member of the 'elite', in their minds (hence this weird focus on and obsession with her finances).
Meanwhile, Trump is running shadow state department and backdoor dealings with zero accountability with Ukraine on top of Trump doing everything in his power to hide his own tax returns and financial records from the public eye while using his public office to reap substantial personal profit for himself, his family and cronies. It's all goddamn projection of the highest order.
The House of Representatives has the power to impeach the President of the United States. It says so in the fricken Constitution. So, no, not a coup, at all.
Barr running interference for Trump once again... why is this mofo not impeached yet alongside Trump?
What always boggles my mind is that Trump is obsessed with gold and lived in a literal fucking tower, kitted after a tacky of version of the Versailles, in New York. You know, one of those awful coastal liberal strongholds. I don't think you could've elected a more corrupt person, and when they go to defend them, they say it's okay because "everybody does it."
Trump failed upwards his whole life and might as well be a satirical parody of the 1%. I often ponder if medieval peasants must've felt the same way about some bumbling inbred idiot prince, at some point in history.
It annoys me quite a lot that they keep calling this a coup. It's so blatantly false in so many ways. This is a Constitutional remedy to Presidential malfeasance, it is explicitly legal and it won't even result in a Democratic President anyway even if Trump is removed. There are so many reasons why this isn't a coup or even anything remotely close.
Well, assuming Republican senators decided to grow a conscience and out Trump, Pence is in this mess almost as bad, so it would give us President Pelosi.
But more likely I think is Trump resigns, Pence appoints Romney or someone as VP and he resigns too. Just for maximum anti-democracy points.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
A Romney presidency seems downright utopian compared to the last three years.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
My fever dream is pence resigning, trump picking Romney, and Romney becoming president when trump resigns, with romney pardoning both pence and trump and cuomo pardoning trump in New York in exchange for leaving office,
That is the least satisfying ending that isn't trump remaining in power but it doesn't feel impossible.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
This has always been true and was the plan all along. Conservatives are crowing about this being a coup because, in their minds, they are the only permissible and legitimate rulers of America. All others are either apostates or charlatans, and must be treated accordingly.
Eh. Some of them are greedy fucks or just in it for the power. Barr speaks like he really believes in this shit.
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
This has always been true and was the plan all along. Conservatives are crowing about this being a coup because, in their minds, they are the only permissible and legitimate rulers of America. All others are either apostates or charlatans, and must be treated accordingly.
Eh. Some of them are greedy fucks or just in it for the power. Barr speaks like he really believes in this shit.
After the number of years and the numbers of times he's gone to bat for some of the most disgusting people ever to be put into high places of power, I would not doubt for one second that he sees himself as some sort of savior for them.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
As if I needed more evidence that Republicans are nothing but projection, that speech from Barr (at least the little bit I was willing to read, because holy shit it was bad) just cements it. Claiming that progressives are the one rules lawyering and breaking norms to setup their perfect society is just the height of projection, and I can think of no clearer evidence.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
This has always been true and was the plan all along. Conservatives are crowing about this being a coup because, in their minds, they are the only permissible and legitimate rulers of America. All others are either apostates or charlatans, and must be treated accordingly.
Eh. Some of them are greedy fucks or just in it for the power. Barr speaks like he really believes in this shit.
After the number of years and the numbers of times he's gone to bat for some of the most disgusting people ever to be put into high places of power, I would not doubt for one second that he sees himself as some sort of savior for them.
Not too far off all things considered; he's managed to wash 2 catastrophic presidential clusterfucks and has the herculean task of going for a third with impeachment.
My fever dream is pence resigning, trump picking Romney, and Romney becoming president when trump resigns, with romney pardoning both pence and trump and cuomo pardoning trump in New York in exchange for leaving office,
That is the least satisfying ending that isn't trump remaining in power but it doesn't feel impossible.
Oh hey, Pence was requesting, receiving, and delivering updates on the quid pro quo directly to Trump .
Unless Pence was the only one who missed out on the code, this is damning: Pence told Zelensky he wanted an update on corruption reform efforts “that he could then convey back to” Trump. Williams gave Pence the 7/25 call memo, didn't know if he read it
If Trump is somehow actually removed from office, we would get Pence. Removing him would require a second impeachment attempt, and there's no way the public goes along with that after dealing with the Trump impeachment.
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If Trump is somehow actually removed from office, we would get Pence. Removing him would require a second impeachment attempt, and there's no way the public goes along with that after dealing with the Trump impeachment.
Is it possible to do a dual impeachment? They're both heavily implicated in the same crimes, after all.
I mean I wouldn't expect it to happen even if possible, but man that would be something historic.
Yeah, syndalis' fever dream is the best case scenario. Basically that Trump/Pence get removed in a pardon shuffle that still leaves a republican in office.
There's just no way a Trump removal happens and then a Pence removal also happens.
Although the big problem with that is iirc a president can't just designate a replacment VP. Congress has to approve on which includes the House.
The "best" case scenario is Trump stays in office so utterly hamstrung that it's effectively a lame duck, Dems sweep in November, and an independent commission is set up in January to investigate all the crimes and Trump, Pence, and Barr all go to jail.
The icing would be finding something that could force Kavanaugh to retire or allow the Dems to impeach him as well, though that's basically President Pelosi territory so not really worth discussing.
President Romney is not utopia. President Romney would be a competent conservative shill.
Yeah, syndalis' fever dream is the best case scenario. Basically that Trump/Pence get removed in a pardon shuffle that still leaves a republican in office.
There's just no way a Trump removal happens and then a Pence removal also happens.
Although the big problem with that is iirc a president can't just designate a replacment VP. Congress has to approve on which includes the House.
That's true, but I'm sure that if it comes to it, Pence will just not resign if Romney (or some other non-implicated Republican) isn't confirmed first.
There simply won't be enough time to impeach Pence in a manner that you'll get 20+ Republicans on board for removal, even in the unlikely event you can get enough on board to force those resignations in the first place.
Republicans MIGHT Be convinced that Trump and Pence need to go. But they'll burn down the country before they allow Pelosi to be President, even if just for a couple of months.
EDIT: So, if Democrats want Trump and Pence removed, they need to accept that Romney (OSON-IR) will be caretaker President, and be willing to confirm them.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
If Trump is somehow actually removed from office, we would get Pence. Removing him would require a second impeachment attempt, and there's no way the public goes along with that after dealing with the Trump impeachment.
Unless Pence gets thrown under the bus first. I give a 50/50 chance that Trump would let his own sons get executed for treason just to buy himself a few extra days, much less decaff Rush Limbaugh who's been trying to blend in with the drapery. Besides, the GOP base is basically a bunch of medievalists who believe their king is sovereign by divine right, so anytime the king does anything wrong, it's clearly the fault of his evil counselors who should be removed/killed, of which Pence would qualify.
There’s not enough time between now and the 2020 election to overly stress about a theoretical President Pence. Trump will never willingly resign, except maybe to avoid jail time, and I’m really leaning into that maybe.
Regardless, any scenario where public outrage is high enough for Senate Republicans to turn on Trump is more than enough public outrage enough to destroy the GOP in 2020. Even if Trump was forcibly removed before the election, Pence would have maybe only a couple months and he’d be completely lame duck. There’s just no way in hell he’d be able to get anything done with the Dems having such a mandate as removing a President from power.
At best, Pence would still be able to get judicial nominations before being voted out in 2020, but it would be a Senate that just voted to remove Trump from power that’s confirming them, so hopefully less chance of these hilariously bad judicial nominees getting passed. Even if McConnell does try to ram through as many shitty judges as possible in a hypothetical President Pence, they are already doing that right now anyway, so I think it’s not something we should stress over when it comes to removing Trump.
Then after Pence obviously loses 2020, then we can worry about him getting jailed too since Barr will no longer be in the Justice Department to cover for him.
But there’s a looooooooooot of ground we have to cross between here and there, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over “President Pence” until we’ve got our current situation in order.
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Jesus Christ that is a scary speech from anyone in power, let alone the attorney general
He's talking about a fucking Kantian categorical imperative as law instead of a philosophical ethical framework.
It's also BLATANTLY FALSE. You can't say The Ends Don't Justify The Means when that's a tactic you use; it's in direct opposition on every single conceivable level to what you're saying.
What a fucking goose.
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So AG Barr gave an insane lesson in projection to the Federalist Society last night, where he laid out just how much the president should be above the law.
It's pissed a bunch of lawyer types off and renewed public calls for his impeachment. This speech is rather scary when you think about what Trump might try as impeachment continues to get uglier for him.
I can only read the thumbnail, the Twitter don't work on my phone. Can anyone paste the whole thing because what I can read is already horrible .
So AG Barr gave an insane lesson in projection to the Federalist Society last night, where he laid out just how much the president should be above the law.
It's pissed a bunch of lawyer types off and renewed public calls for his impeachment. This speech is rather scary when you think about what Trump might try as impeachment continues to get uglier for him.
I can only read the thumbnail, the Twitter don't work on my phone. Can anyone paste the whole thing because what I can read is already horrible .
In any age, the so-called progressives treat politics as their religion. Their holy mission is to use the coercive power of the State to remake man and society in their own image, according to an abstract ideal of perfection. Whatever means they use are therefore justified because, by definition, they are a virtuous people pursing a deific end. They are willing to use any means necessary to gain momentary advantage in achieving their end, regardless of collateral consequences and the systemic implications. They never ask whether the actions they take could be justified as a general rule of conduct, equally applicable to all sides.
Conservatives, on the other hand, do not seek an earthly paradise. We are interested in preserving over the long run the proper balance of freedom and order necessary for healthy development of natural civil society and individual human flourishing. This means that we naturally test the propriety and wisdom of action under a “rule of law” standard. The essence of this standard is to ask what the overall impact on society over the long run if the action we are taking, or principle we are applying, in a given circumstance was universalized—that is, would it be good for society over the long haul if this was done in all like circumstances?
For these reasons, conservatives tend to have more scruple over their political tactics and rarely feel that the ends justify the means. And this is as it should be, but there is no getting around the fact that this puts conservatives at a disadvantage when facing progressive holy far, especially when doing so under the weight of a hyper-partisan media.
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From what I've read, its more that he doesn't want to look like he's willingly testifying against Trump. He wants to say he was forced to testify, and that since he's a law-abiding citizen, he was of course going to testify and *have* to tell the truth.
I am not kidding or exaggerating, this was actually said:
Jason Campbell is a researcher for Media Matters
The vast majority of it is basically a flow chart for how to make Trump god king.
Good to know that the next time I get pulled over for speeding it’s fine for me to offer the cop $50 to just let me go.
Although, he might pass since it’s illegal to accept my bribe.
Barr came to Abq last week and lambasted the state of it's lax use of law
I want one of these commentators to start into one of these screeds and either crack, openly admitting that this is insane and trump is a direct threat to the soul of the republic or have a siezure from their brain refusing to co-operate with their will.
The latter idea would have made the last twenty years a lot simpler.
*Offer invalid for liberals or poor people.
While at the same time, from those quotes above, it sounds like he knew how illegal this all was and did the smart thing of lawyering up and staying the fuck out of it all as much as he could.
The biggest thing I got from skimming through it is that Barr is a true believer in the ridiculous conservative political case and is a zealot willing to do anything and everything to keep the holy conservatives in power and the unholy progressives out.
But...this whole thing is about Trump asking for a bribe. He was obligated to release the aid, but wouldn't do it until Ukraine bribed him with political PR.
This has always been true and was the plan all along. Conservatives are crowing about this being a coup because, in their minds, they are the only permissible and legitimate rulers of America. All others are either apostates or charlatans, and must be treated accordingly.
It's all fodder for their Deep State conspiracy theories and anti-elite/intellectualism bullshit lies. Marie Yovanovitch, a 33 year civil servant dutiful doing her job in war torn nation embassies, is considered an agent of the Deep State and a member of the 'elite', in their minds (hence this weird focus on and obsession with her finances).
Meanwhile, Trump is running shadow state department and backdoor dealings with zero accountability with Ukraine on top of Trump doing everything in his power to hide his own tax returns and financial records from the public eye while using his public office to reap substantial personal profit for himself, his family and cronies. It's all goddamn projection of the highest order.
The House of Representatives has the power to impeach the President of the United States. It says so in the fricken Constitution. So, no, not a coup, at all.
Barr running interference for Trump once again... why is this mofo not impeached yet alongside Trump?
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
What always boggles my mind is that Trump is obsessed with gold and lived in a literal fucking tower, kitted after a tacky of version of the Versailles, in New York. You know, one of those awful coastal liberal strongholds. I don't think you could've elected a more corrupt person, and when they go to defend them, they say it's okay because "everybody does it."
Trump failed upwards his whole life and might as well be a satirical parody of the 1%. I often ponder if medieval peasants must've felt the same way about some bumbling inbred idiot prince, at some point in history.
The hypocrisy of it all.
Well, assuming Republican senators decided to grow a conscience and out Trump, Pence is in this mess almost as bad, so it would give us President Pelosi.
But more likely I think is Trump resigns, Pence appoints Romney or someone as VP and he resigns too. Just for maximum anti-democracy points.
That is the least satisfying ending that isn't trump remaining in power but it doesn't feel impossible.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Eh. Some of them are greedy fucks or just in it for the power. Barr speaks like he really believes in this shit.
After the number of years and the numbers of times he's gone to bat for some of the most disgusting people ever to be put into high places of power, I would not doubt for one second that he sees himself as some sort of savior for them.
Not too far off all things considered; he's managed to wash 2 catastrophic presidential clusterfucks and has the herculean task of going for a third with impeachment.
Oh hey, Pence was requesting, receiving, and delivering updates on the quid pro quo directly to Trump .
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Edit: sorry I know this is not the level of engagement expected, but like... I have no way to react to this other than laughing at this point
Is it possible to do a dual impeachment? They're both heavily implicated in the same crimes, after all.
I mean I wouldn't expect it to happen even if possible, but man that would be something historic.
There's just no way a Trump removal happens and then a Pence removal also happens.
Although the big problem with that is iirc a president can't just designate a replacment VP. Congress has to approve on which includes the House.
The icing would be finding something that could force Kavanaugh to retire or allow the Dems to impeach him as well, though that's basically President Pelosi territory so not really worth discussing.
President Romney is not utopia. President Romney would be a competent conservative shill.
That's true, but I'm sure that if it comes to it, Pence will just not resign if Romney (or some other non-implicated Republican) isn't confirmed first.
There simply won't be enough time to impeach Pence in a manner that you'll get 20+ Republicans on board for removal, even in the unlikely event you can get enough on board to force those resignations in the first place.
Republicans MIGHT Be convinced that Trump and Pence need to go. But they'll burn down the country before they allow Pelosi to be President, even if just for a couple of months.
EDIT: So, if Democrats want Trump and Pence removed, they need to accept that Romney (OSON-IR) will be caretaker President, and be willing to confirm them.
Unless Pence gets thrown under the bus first. I give a 50/50 chance that Trump would let his own sons get executed for treason just to buy himself a few extra days, much less decaff Rush Limbaugh who's been trying to blend in with the drapery. Besides, the GOP base is basically a bunch of medievalists who believe their king is sovereign by divine right, so anytime the king does anything wrong, it's clearly the fault of his evil counselors who should be removed/killed, of which Pence would qualify.
Regardless, any scenario where public outrage is high enough for Senate Republicans to turn on Trump is more than enough public outrage enough to destroy the GOP in 2020. Even if Trump was forcibly removed before the election, Pence would have maybe only a couple months and he’d be completely lame duck. There’s just no way in hell he’d be able to get anything done with the Dems having such a mandate as removing a President from power.
At best, Pence would still be able to get judicial nominations before being voted out in 2020, but it would be a Senate that just voted to remove Trump from power that’s confirming them, so hopefully less chance of these hilariously bad judicial nominees getting passed. Even if McConnell does try to ram through as many shitty judges as possible in a hypothetical President Pence, they are already doing that right now anyway, so I think it’s not something we should stress over when it comes to removing Trump.
Then after Pence obviously loses 2020, then we can worry about him getting jailed too since Barr will no longer be in the Justice Department to cover for him.
But there’s a looooooooooot of ground we have to cross between here and there, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over “President Pence” until we’ve got our current situation in order.
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What an absolute skidmark
He's talking about a fucking Kantian categorical imperative as law instead of a philosophical ethical framework.
It's also BLATANTLY FALSE. You can't say The Ends Don't Justify The Means when that's a tactic you use; it's in direct opposition on every single conceivable level to what you're saying.
What a fucking goose.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
It's not surprising, but another worrying sign of the Othering that's going on of the other side.
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I can only read the thumbnail, the Twitter don't work on my phone. Can anyone paste the whole thing because what I can read is already horrible .