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[FFXIV]: Shadowguys: 5.4 December 8th

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    oh I think that math's wrong, it's working off the assumption the hidden card will be the open card for the next round if it's not a tie, which I'm pretty sure my FC has experimentally confirmed not to be true recently. Maybe it worked like that a year ago when they wrote that post, and it was changed since?

    When we did maps the other day it worked this way for each of the gambles

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    hrm
    maybe we were just stupid then

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Lalafell
    Hm. I’m not sure how I feel about this ending to 5.3
    On the one hand, I of course prefer that the Exarch lives than for him to have died. On the other hand, that he was revived by placing his future memories in the body of our timeline’s G’raha Tia strikes me as kinda... morally ambiguous. Like, I still think Noah inhabiting the body of Koh Rabntah is freaky.

    And yes, the Exarch was this exact same person up until the point where he sealed himself in the tower. But then they diverged. The Exarch lived a century in Norvrandt, and had so many more experiences and labored for so long that his time in Eorzea seemed to him a distant youth. Our G’raha Tia wasn’t the Exarch, and had his own future ahead of him. For that to be replaced with the experiences of the Exarch feels wrong; like we were viewing him as a convenient backup body, rather than his own person.

    What I’m saying is that I really, really hope that before we transferred the Exarch’s soul and memories, we had a long talk with G’raha Tia and made him fully aware of what we were asking of him.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    Enlong wrote: »
    Hm. I’m not sure how I feel about this ending to 5.3
    On the one hand, I of course prefer that the Exarch lives than for him to have died. On the other hand, that he was revived by placing his future memories in the body of our timeline’s G’raha Tia strikes me as kinda... morally ambiguous. Like, I still think Noah inhabiting the body of Koh Rabntah is freaky.

    And yes, the Exarch was this exact same person up until the point where he sealed himself in the tower. But then they diverged. The Exarch lived a century in Norvrandt, and had so many more experiences and labored for so long that his time in Eorzea seemed to him a distant youth. Our G’raha Tia wasn’t the Exarch, and had his own future ahead of him. For that to be replaced with the experiences of the Exarch feels wrong; like we were viewing him as a convenient backup body, rather than his own person.

    What I’m saying is that I really, really hope that before we transferred the Exarch’s soul and memories, we had a long talk with G’raha Tia and made him fully aware of what we were asking of him.
    while that's true, I think it's more like an Ardbert situation, Exarch is living in younger G'raha's head, rather than a personality overwrite or something. I think this is also a fertile story vein to mine in the future so I hope they come back to it.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Enlong wrote: »
    Hm. I’m not sure how I feel about this ending to 5.3
    On the one hand, I of course prefer that the Exarch lives than for him to have died. On the other hand, that he was revived by placing his future memories in the body of our timeline’s G’raha Tia strikes me as kinda... morally ambiguous. Like, I still think Noah inhabiting the body of Koh Rabntah is freaky.

    And yes, the Exarch was this exact same person up until the point where he sealed himself in the tower. But then they diverged. The Exarch lived a century in Norvrandt, and had so many more experiences and labored for so long that his time in Eorzea seemed to him a distant youth. Our G’raha Tia wasn’t the Exarch, and had his own future ahead of him. For that to be replaced with the experiences of the Exarch feels wrong; like we were viewing him as a convenient backup body, rather than his own person.

    What I’m saying is that I really, really hope that before we transferred the Exarch’s soul and memories, we had a long talk with G’raha Tia and made him fully aware of what we were asking of him.
    while that's true, I think it's more like an Ardbert situation, Exarch is living in younger G'raha's head, rather than a personality overwrite or something. I think this is also a fertile story vein to mine in the future so I hope they come back to it.
    Now I want G’raha and the Crystal Exaech to have internal conversations like Piccolo and Nail in DBZ Abridged.

    Zython on
    Switch: SW-3245-5421-8042 | 3DS Friend Code: 4854-6465-0299 | PSN: Zaithon
    Steam: pazython
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    TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    a little while back mrhappy played through arr again, while watching all of the cutscenes and trying to avoid using tricks he only knows about as a veteran player, so he could establish a baseline and compare it to the 5.3 revamp, and see just how much faster the new player experience actually became

    https://youtu.be/cwGRK4EQxrM

    and now he's started his revamped run

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Do the NA servers not run high-end trials via Duty Finder? I'd been using it in the past for Cinder Drift EX and Memoria Misera EX, and just now tried it and got a kill in for Seat of Sacrifice EX, but I heard that, apparently, that's just a Japanese server thing. I'd check it myself but I don't have any 80s on NA just yet.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Miqo'te
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Do the NA servers not run high-end trials via Duty Finder? I'd been using it in the past for Cinder Drift EX and Memoria Misera EX, and just now tried it and got a kill in for Seat of Sacrifice EX, but I heard that, apparently, that's just a Japanese server thing. I'd check it myself but I don't have any 80s on NA just yet.

    You could try queuing for it but I doubt it would pop; NA is PF or bust for anything EX difficulty or above.

    For whatever reason NA has never really used the party chat macros that are common in JP servers, so it's harder to organize 8 completely random people vs just listing strats in the PF description and recruiting people that way.

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
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    H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Au'ra
    I'm sure you can eventually find a Ex trail in duty finder, but 99% of the Ex runs I do are through PF.

    H0b0man on
    FFXIV: Agran Trask
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    For whatever reason NA has never really used the party chat macros that are common in JP servers, so it's harder to organize 8 completely random people vs just listing strats in the PF description and recruiting people that way.
    The macros seem really convenient, even if they change in big and/or small ways each run and you have to re-read it closely to make sure what gameplan everyone's on.
    KG74JFD.jpg
    Even with just strats listed in the PF description, it seems like /p macros would be useful at least for positioning purposes.

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    NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Miqo'te
    I have to imagine that Japanese being more character-efficient is one reason for it not getting traction in the NA servers.

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    H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    For positioning you typically just throw down a square marker or two and have the party stand at the edge/corner of the marker that they'll take when they need to go to clockwise positions or show which group they will be in if there are mechanics that require the party to split up into two groups.

    FFXIV: Agran Trask
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    yeah the thing I usually see on NA for positioning is you throw down a square marker at the start and use the faces and corners to pick compass positions, and then put a second marker down and the group splits between those for mechanics that require the group to be split in half.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Miqo'te
    Nah, you can do basically the same thing in English, but NA uses the all-mighty 1 marker instead. Place down the 1, everyone stands on a cardinal/intercardinal position to pick their spots, maybe throw down a 2 as well is you need to split into light parties. From everything I've heard it's just kinda a cultural difference. Whereas NA groups are a free for all and will argue over just about everything, JP servers are much less likely to be overtly confrontational in party chat and there is a baseline expectation that everyone mostly knows what to do and will follow the commonly accepted strat/best-practices.

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
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    H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Au'ra
    Also another difference I've heard about is the cultural difference with how each region treats DF.

    From what I've heard on JP servers you're expected to be on your A game for DF and people treat it very seriously and expect others to already know all the mechanics and what to do.

    Where on NA a ton of people us DF as the more laid back version of grouping or to mess around or try places blind. After all you're grouped up with random people that probably aren't on your server and you'll most likely never see again. I 100% don't expect DF randoms to know all the fights or to perform very well. PF is where you're expected to know your shit unless the PF specifically says that it's ok to be blind. (Not that people in PF know their shit necessarily. Tons of terrible PF groups out there.)

    H0b0man on
    FFXIV: Agran Trask
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    simulacrumsimulacrum She/herRegistered User regular
    Lalafell
    God I wish NA used raid finder I hate dealing with pf so much there was a brief window when Sophia ex was current that it was used and it was great

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    pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    ooo red mage is pretty neat

    psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Ah, I'd never heard of that stand-around-the-marker thing before. Usually we just have someone give out the macro and then everyone chimes in on what position they're claiming. "D3", "H1", "D2", "ST", etc until all positions are claimed then we ready check, countdown, and go.
    H0b0man wrote: »
    From what I've heard on JP servers you're expected to be on your A game for DF and people treat it very seriously and expect others to already know all the mechanics and what to do.
    To varying degrees. There are practice parties and there are loot parties. Practice parties are perfectly fine with "oh, I made a mistake and went the wrong way on ____ mechanic, let's try again" and will keep going until a prespecified time or until the dungeon timer runs out. Loot parties are fine with one wipe, but if you wipe twice then they're giving up and vote disbanding, because they really expect the party to know the fight enough to not wipe. But while groups can be okay with "I made a mistake reacting to that mechanic", even the practice parties aren't going to be too happy with "I don't know what that mechanic does" sorts of players. Which works for me just fine; even back in WoW days I wouldn't queue up for a new 5-man dungeon until I'd read at least one text guide and watched at least one video.

    SabreMau on
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    H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Au'ra
    Ya we do the whole practice/learning party and farm party split as well, but we do it all through PF. It makes it easy to get the group you're looking for since you just put what type of group it is in the PF description.

    edit: DF is just a "anything goes, don't have any expectations if you're doing something other than normal dungeons or story trials/normal raids"

    H0b0man on
    FFXIV: Agran Trask
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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Yeah, I didn't get around to using that in Party Finder until somewhat later. I just selected the "Duty Incomplete" "Practice" options in Duty Finder to get my first Cinder EX clear, and then went for "Duty Complete" "Duty Completion" after that for the next five dozen runs.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    SabreMau wrote: »
    ph blake wrote: »
    For whatever reason NA has never really used the party chat macros that are common in JP servers, so it's harder to organize 8 completely random people vs just listing strats in the PF description and recruiting people that way.
    The macros seem really convenient, even if they change in big and/or small ways each run and you have to re-read it closely to make sure what gameplan everyone's on.
    KG74JFD.jpg
    Even with just strats listed in the PF description, it seems like /p macros would be useful at least for positioning purposes.

    There is an element of truth to the meme that NA can't adjust and oftentimes won't read. If it's not a single heavily standardized strat that they all just "know", they're not going to have the patience to learn/do it - particularly you're expecting them to filter chat for a giant macro.

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    At least for this, the strat seems to be becoming fairly standardized already, which makes these more reminders than alternate strategies. The details that shift between these three are:
    1) The specific placement order of D1-D4 in 8-way and 4-way positions
    2) Dropping LB3 meteors in corners or cardinals
    3) Which tethers the tanks/healers are taking during add phase (N or S), most macros now just use corner positioning
    4) Whether they're using Arm's Length/Surecast uptime method for ninja knockback or lining up on the side getting knocked away in pairs together
    5) Taking black mage/white mage pair towers in fixed order or starting from fixed positions

    The first one was from very early on, like day 1 or 2, and the rest of the ones I've seen lately have coalesced more to the style of the right-side macro. It's mostly that some groups go with knockback prevention and some go without it; that one's a coin toss on which one the leader likes, but both work. The one major difference that I've seen in the English-language guides, that I haven't come across in-game yet, is they suggest an uptime strat of putting tanks and melee in the add phase towers and sending healers and ranged to take the tethers. The Japanese strategy instead is just send tank and healer to tethers and all DPS into towers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pkkb0iwK7A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SO5YTNXhHo
    Aside from that, everyone already knowing what all mechanics do makes it simple enough that all you need is a reminder of where you're supposed to stand at which points and the fight basically resolves itself.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    Just FYI for those that completed the 5.3 MSQ, Unukalhai will have a little bit of new dialogue if you talk to him.

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    Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Demon Hunter for Hire Time RiftRegistered User regular
    Miqo'te
    SabreMau wrote: »
    At least for this, the strat seems to be becoming fairly standardized already, which makes these more reminders than alternate strategies. The details that shift between these three are:
    1) The specific placement order of D1-D4 in 8-way and 4-way positions
    2) Dropping LB3 meteors in corners or cardinals
    3) Which tethers the tanks/healers are taking during add phase (N or S), most macros now just use corner positioning
    4) Whether they're using Arm's Length/Surecast uptime method for ninja knockback or lining up on the side getting knocked away in pairs together
    5) Taking black mage/white mage pair towers in fixed order or starting from fixed positions

    The first one was from very early on, like day 1 or 2, and the rest of the ones I've seen lately have coalesced more to the style of the right-side macro. It's mostly that some groups go with knockback prevention and some go without it; that one's a coin toss on which one the leader likes, but both work. The one major difference that I've seen in the English-language guides, that I haven't come across in-game yet, is they suggest an uptime strat of putting tanks and melee in the add phase towers and sending healers and ranged to take the tethers. The Japanese strategy instead is just send tank and healer to tethers and all DPS into towers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pkkb0iwK7A
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SO5YTNXhHo
    Aside from that, everyone already knowing what all mechanics do makes it simple enough that all you need is a reminder of where you're supposed to stand at which points and the fight basically resolves itself.

    Uptime ninja and adds are usually the biggest wrinkles, though I have encountered a ridiculous number of different 3rd phase meteor strats, like insane variety. Counting, partners, positions, HHTTRRMM, TTHHRRMM, and so on.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Miqo'te
    I have no idea why people insist on trying out so many stupid ways to solve P3 meteors instead of just using the same DPS/HT pairs for LB3 meteors.

    Like, it basically solves itself! There is literally no reason to change it, no one even loses uptime! I feel like a crazy person when I get in a party and see people arguing over HTRM or "can I have 1-5, it's what I'm used to" or whatever.

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    Breaking up BLM/WHM partners by role is weird when you already have other meteor partners. We find it much easier to just keep the same buddy for the entire fight, for LB3, BLM/WHM, and NIN

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    SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    I did cause one accidental wipe today by running to my usual ST position for LB3, but the MT also ran there because I was the tank with aggro. Luckily, we were able to clear up that misunderstanding and the next time it happened, MT had aggro for it anyway.

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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    5.3 post 8-man:
    Out of all the bittersweet good byes, I just wish Y'shtola and Runar would have just been dating instead of this "a flower for thee... oh no lol I was kinda just joking" Just have them be this couple for a bit. NPCs fall in love and have relationships, and sometimes it doesn't work out and that can be truly bittersweet. After watching them obviously act like they're in love and doing nothing with it just reads like it was written by a childish or very prude person

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Lalafell
    Aldo wrote: »
    5.3 post 8-man:
    Out of all the bittersweet good byes, I just wish Y'shtola and Runar would have just been dating instead of this "a flower for thee... oh no lol I was kinda just joking" Just have them be this couple for a bit. NPCs fall in love and have relationships, and sometimes it doesn't work out and that can be truly bittersweet. After watching them obviously act like they're in love and doing nothing with it just reads like it was written by a childish or very prude person
    But then Y'shtola basically says she's going to figure out how to traverse the rift safely just so that she can be with him again. So even if it didn't go that far during the time she spent on the First, they clearly want it to, and are going to try to make that happen.

    Enlong on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    Y'shtola will be dead in the fucking ground long before she chains herself to any man

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Lalafell
    Javen wrote: »
    Y'shtola will be dead in the fucking ground long before she chains herself to any man
    She's died like 3 times. I think she's done her time.

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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    5.3 post 8-man:
    Out of all the bittersweet good byes, I just wish Y'shtola and Runar would have just been dating instead of this "a flower for thee... oh no lol I was kinda just joking" Just have them be this couple for a bit. NPCs fall in love and have relationships, and sometimes it doesn't work out and that can be truly bittersweet. After watching them obviously act like they're in love and doing nothing with it just reads like it was written by a childish or very prude person
    But then Y'shtola basically says she's going to figure out how to traverse the rift safely just so that she can be with him again. So even if it didn't go that far during the time she spent on the First, they clearly want it to, and are going to try to make that happen.
    So maybe they'll go and have a first date or something then. I think it's lame :(

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    Fig-DFig-D Tustin, CA, USRegistered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Y'shtola will be dead in the fucking ground long before she chains herself to any man
    She's died like 3 times. I think she's done her time.
    She's got six more lives then!

    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Miqo'te
    Given that Y'shtola's arc in SHB was all about becoming a Master Matoya in her own right (and calling out Thancred for his shittiness) I think it would've been kinda lame to add "and also she has a bf now". I really liked Y'shtola and Runar's relationship as they played it.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    admanb wrote: »
    Given that Y'shtola's arc in SHB was all about becoming a Master Matoya in her own right (and calling out Thancred for his shittiness) I think it would've been kinda lame to add "and also she has a bf now". I really liked Y'shtola and Runar's relationship as they played it.
    Runar is awkward, but he's sweet. A nice contrast to little sun

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    Fig-DFig-D Tustin, CA, USRegistered User regular
    I don't think they'll ever commit to anything regarding relationships with the Scions or other characters that our Warrior of Light spends an extended amount of time with. I seem to remember someone mentioning an interview not all that long ago where someone at Square said that they write a lot of the interactions between those characters and ours as warm and somewhat flirty because some of the players want to imagine their characters having a relationship with those individuals. That's why Aymeric is making bedroom eyes at everybody's WoL while they have dinner after the Dragonsong War.

    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Lalafell
    Well, my fantasy is for Y’shtola and Runar to get to have the relationship they both seem to want and be happy together.

    Maybe I get to deliver love letters across worlds while she works on finding a way across the rift.

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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Miqo'te
    Enlong wrote: »
    Well, my fantasy is for Y’shtola and Runar to get to have the relationship they both seem to want and be happy together.

    Maybe I get to deliver love letters across worlds while she works on finding a way across the rift.
    My Dearest Runar,

    Today I pulled the living aether out of a human being and put it into a broom. For funsies.

    Yours,

    Y'shtola

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    pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    i like moenbryda

    psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    Fig-D wrote: »
    I don't think they'll ever commit to anything regarding relationships with the Scions or other characters that our Warrior of Light spends an extended amount of time with. I seem to remember someone mentioning an interview not all that long ago where someone at Square said that they write a lot of the interactions between those characters and ours as warm and somewhat flirty because some of the players want to imagine their characters having a relationship with those individuals. That's why Aymeric is making bedroom eyes at everybody's WoL while they have dinner after the Dragonsong War.
    This bit with Y'shtola and Runar is open ended enough for people to headcanon it however they want. I'm not really sure how to read that, you could take it as romantic or more a family thing easily.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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