do yourself a favor and never google the actress that played Kes
See if you say stuff like this now I HAVE to google her.
/googled
I was gonna say this wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be, then I read further. Her wikipedia page kind of glosses over her more shocking offenses.
I will never understand the point of Neelix - hard to be a comic foil when he's written to be as obnoxious to the viewer as possible.
They actually expected him to be the breakout character. He was Jar Jar before there was a Jar Jar.
Really? That's insane. The Neelix gets jealous of Kess episodes were I think when I just gave up on re-watching the show on Netflix. You got this creepy sense that Neelix had groomed Kess to be his lover, and lashed out at anything that challenged the environment of dependency he had created for her. Shit was gross.
Well keep in mind the people in charge of Star Trek are Hollywood producers
i mean obviously this is true in a general sense but Jeri Taylor, the Voyager creator and showrunner, was a woman in her like 60s
which makes it extra weird to me that stuff like the Kes thing was allowed to happen, or that Janeway was such a nothing character
you'd think even if she couldn't write her way out of a paper bag (and she could! she wrote a few pretty good TNG eps!) she'd be good for at least that ONE thing but nope
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
0
Options
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
0
Options
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
they pulled a switcheroo on you, it's actually the Doctor who is the best
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
Enterprise characters were fine as a description in an initial pitch for the series and basically failed at every point after that. Maybe some of the casting was ok.
really wish they developed Mayweather more. Outside of the Horizon episode, he got no development or arc in any way.
I'm almost glad it didn't get a 5th season. After hearing about that refit that basically turned ENT into a constitution-class clone, that would have pissed me off. The idea of a major refit, I'm down with, but just making it look almost identical to a connie was lame.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I'm still mad that casting Scott Bakula as a Star Trek captain should have been a slam dunk and instead it turned out the entire show was playing for the Washington Generals.
I'm almost glad it didn't get a 5th season. After hearing about that refit that basically turned ENT into a constitution-class clone, that would have pissed me off. The idea of a major refit, I'm down with, but just making it look almost identical to a connie was lame.
"Nearly identical" is an exaggeration, I'd say. Really it's just "paint the nacelles with Connie-style livery, then sling a secondary hull under there."
+6
Options
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited May 2020
ya the drexler art of the refit all looks amazing and I'm still bummed there was no S5
By itself, I like the refit, I just hate the whole "Our audience is dumb, so let's make the Enterprise look more like the previous Enterprise. 'Member the original Enterprise? 'Member that? Kinda like how Star Wars appears to be incapable of making a ship that doesn't look like an x-wing or a TIE fighter for the good guys and the bad guys.
The secondary engineering hull I'm down with, but maybe leave out the connecting struts and leave that simply to the viewer's imagination. Just something that isn't quite so on the nose.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
The Voyager episode guide would basically be "watch Year of Hell Parts 1 and 2", over the entire series the Doctor and Seven prove to be real gems but everything else on the show is just poorly thought out.
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
My two main issues with the cast were:
1. Dominic Keating as Lt. Reed. He was always just whiny/pouty.
2. Anthony Montgomery as Ensign Mayweather. He felt like a non-actor reading cue cards/a teleprompter most of the time.
I'm not sure if it's due to them having exceedingly limited range as actors, or if the directing was just as shit as most of the writing, but those two always struck me as being pretty bad.
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
My two main issues with the cast were:
1. Dominic Keating as Lt. Reed. He was always just whiny/pouty.
2. Anthony Montgomery as Ensign Mayweather. He felt like a non-actor reading cue cards/a teleprompter most of the time.
I'm not sure if it's due to them having exceedingly limited range as actors, or if the directing was just as shit as most of the writing, but those two always struck me as being pretty bad.
Everyone on the show came across that way. It feels like an intentional direction they went with. Everyone was plastic, from Bakula on downwards.
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
0
Options
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
My two main issues with the cast were:
1. Dominic Keating as Lt. Reed. He was always just whiny/pouty.
2. Anthony Montgomery as Ensign Mayweather. He felt like a non-actor reading cue cards/a teleprompter most of the time.
I'm not sure if it's due to them having exceedingly limited range as actors, or if the directing was just as shit as most of the writing, but those two always struck me as being pretty bad.
Everyone on the show came across that way. It feels like an intentional direction they went with. Everyone was plastic, from Bakula on downwards.
aw I liked them, I always just felt like the writing never gave them any good material to work with
All I remember of Enterprise was Bakula's character being a huge teenage butthead about literally everything in the pilot, and going off on an epic fuck you dad jaunt across the galaxy only to just about cause a war with the klingons. And then the dog peeing on stuff dustup. And the lets get naked and grease each other up in the airlock scene with T'Pol. And that's literally it.
Dark_Side on
+1
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
...how
Like "add a semi-transparent sphere of dimensions x,y,z units keyed to this model for 72 frames" seems like the cheapest possible aspect of any effects shot
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
...how
Like "add a semi-transparent sphere of dimensions x,y,z units keyed to this model for 72 frames" seems like the cheapest possible aspect of any effects shot
90s computers man, they were special things. But yeah you'll notice towards the end of DS9 you just kind of stop seeing shield animations entirely after a certain point. Enterprise is just guesswork though, I'm basing it on nothing but precedent.
I finished Voyager a few months ago and uhh I expected Neelix to be comedy relief but then every episode that focused on him was just incredibly depressing
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
My two main issues with the cast were:
1. Dominic Keating as Lt. Reed. He was always just whiny/pouty.
2. Anthony Montgomery as Ensign Mayweather. He felt like a non-actor reading cue cards/a teleprompter most of the time.
I'm not sure if it's due to them having exceedingly limited range as actors, or if the directing was just as shit as most of the writing, but those two always struck me as being pretty bad.
Everyone on the show came across that way. It feels like an intentional direction they went with. Everyone was plastic, from Bakula on downwards.
See, I thought Trip and Phlox were acted competently. I could see them on any other Trek show. Maybe T'Pol, too, if the show was purposely going for a "Vulcan who doesn't nearly have the emotional control you'd expect" character (and, indeed, I like her better than Michael Burnham in that kind of broad character space because at least T'Pol isn't perpetually on the edge of a nervous breakdown). And Mirror Hoshi was fun.
But, man, Bakula just seemed to have permanent constipation, and the other two I mentioned above were just... bad.
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
...how
Like "add a semi-transparent sphere of dimensions x,y,z units keyed to this model for 72 frames" seems like the cheapest possible aspect of any effects shot
90s computers man, they were special things. But yeah you'll notice towards the end of DS9 you just kind of stop seeing shield animations entirely after a certain point. Enterprise is just guesswork though, I'm basing it on nothing but precedent.
It was based on real science, I think. Shocking, I know. But the idea is that some ceramics can become many times stronger than steel by weight when polarized with a magnetic field, while also maintaining their primary advantage over most metals, i.e. they're ridiculously heat-resistant. So the implication is that the NX-01's hull plating is at least partly ceramic, and when they polarize it it suddenly becomes much harder to damage. This of course is never discussed in the show and it does basically act as their less-advanced version of "shields up."
I think.
0
Options
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Didn't they add shields at some point, too? Like, they intentionally started out without shields, and then added them in later because they had no idea how to write something without shields.
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
...how
Like "add a semi-transparent sphere of dimensions x,y,z units keyed to this model for 72 frames" seems like the cheapest possible aspect of any effects shot
90s computers man, they were special things. But yeah you'll notice towards the end of DS9 you just kind of stop seeing shield animations entirely after a certain point. Enterprise is just guesswork though, I'm basing it on nothing but precedent.
It was based on real science, I think. Shocking, I know. But the idea is that some ceramics can become many times stronger than steel by weight when polarized with a magnetic field, while also maintaining their primary advantage over most metals, i.e. they're ridiculously heat-resistant. So the implication is that the NX-01's hull plating is at least partly ceramic, and when they polarize it it suddenly becomes much harder to damage. This of course is never discussed in the show and it does basically act as their less-advanced version of "shields up."
I think.
that was always my take too and I thought was a neat idea because that is science I can see "today" vs shields are .. well who knows how that works, so here's this cool half-step. One thing I really appreciate now, post disco, is how hard the enterprise people at least "tried" to make it fit into the canon of how TNG was presented. It wasn't always successful but they were trying.
Hardtarget on
0
Options
MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
I think the fundamental problem with Enterprise was the same as that of Voyager, the producers were not actually interested in the underlying premise of each show.
The latter series requires the willingness to serialize storylines and be a bit more realistic about the costs a journey like that would entail. The producers wanted something that didn’t require that level of continuity, so we got a show that may as well have been rejected scripts for a TNG S8.
The former series basically requires a love of TOS, and to lean into the potential for fun and more adventurous stories than TNG often had. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga thought TOS was embarrassing though, so we got a show that may as well have been rejected scripts for a TNG S8.
I'm sort curious about costs for those shield effects, because most episodes of DS9 in this rewatch don't even have spaceship combat in them, and sometimes it's handled completely internally even when it does happen.
We're almost to S6 though, so the Dominion War is gonna crank up that shit real fast.
They reuse certain shots quite a few times. Being a Miranda class assigned to wingman Defiant is DS9's version of beaming down to a new planet in a red shirt with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
All I remember of Enterprise was Bakula's character being a huge teenage butthead about literally everything in the pilot, and going off on an epic fuck you dad jaunt across the galaxy only to just about cause a war with the klingons. And then the dog peeing on stuff dustup. And the lets get naked and grease each other up in the airlock scene with T'Pol. And that's literally it.
A fine and noble scene
+1
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
The former series basically requires a love of TOS, and to lean into the potential for fun and more adventurous stories than TNG often had. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga thought TOS was embarrassing though, so we got a show that may as well have been rejected scripts for a TNG S8.
Rick Berman's embarrassment about TOS (which I feel like some fans have inherited) was a real millstone around the neck of his era that caused a lot of unnecessary problems. It's part of why we had so many forehead aliens in brown pajamas, and it limited the kinds of stories that could be told,
As I was saying elsewhere, something I really appreciate about The Orville is that, despite basically being TNG fanfic, it borrows something I really love from TOS, which is a willingness to not be embarrassed and just go ahead and tell stories on "alien planets" that look exactly like modern LA or a studio back lot. TOS has plenty of great stories that are just "we had a Wild West street" or "we had a 30s street" and The Orville demonstrates that if the stories are good enough people really don't care.
Eh. I admit, I've always considered that kind of silly and cheap. It might be necessary on the budget of a weekly TV show (see also how often they used to reuse physical, and now digital, models) but it's not something I'm actually fond or proud of. I wish they didn't have to.
The greatness of TOS, IMO, was the chemistry of the cast and the strength of some of the writing/episodes, not the cheapass sets and wardrobe. (No, not even Bill Theiss' costumes for the female guest stars.)
Yeah, personally I much preferred the TNG/DS9 (and I guess even VOY) style. TOS is kinda cute in it's cheapness but not in a way that makes me actually want someone to redo it intentionally.
One interesting point about Star Trek is that although it looked cheap it absolutely broke the mold on classic sci fi designs. Take the Enterprise, prior to Trek all sci fi space ships were either flying saucers or variants of the V-2 rocket.
Posts
i mean obviously this is true in a general sense but Jeri Taylor, the Voyager creator and showrunner, was a woman in her like 60s
which makes it extra weird to me that stuff like the Kes thing was allowed to happen, or that Janeway was such a nothing character
you'd think even if she couldn't write her way out of a paper bag (and she could! she wrote a few pretty good TNG eps!) she'd be good for at least that ONE thing but nope
Doctor Phlox feels in no small part like an attempt at a do-over on Neelix. They overcorrect somewhat but he's still one of the bright spots for ENT.
yup, I think in general the enterprise casting and character ideas are really good, but the first couple seasons of writing really let it down. (T'Pol does have a lot of issues though)
they pulled a switcheroo on you, it's actually the Doctor who is the best
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Y I K E S
Enterprise characters were fine as a description in an initial pitch for the series and basically failed at every point after that. Maybe some of the casting was ok.
I'm almost glad it didn't get a 5th season. After hearing about that refit that basically turned ENT into a constitution-class clone, that would have pissed me off. The idea of a major refit, I'm down with, but just making it look almost identical to a connie was lame.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
"Nearly identical" is an exaggeration, I'd say. Really it's just "paint the nacelles with Connie-style livery, then sling a secondary hull under there."
edit - another shot
The secondary engineering hull I'm down with, but maybe leave out the connecting struts and leave that simply to the viewer's imagination. Just something that isn't quite so on the nose.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Voyager is the definition of wasted potential.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
They started with (electrically) "polarized hull plating"... which they wrote/used exactly like shields.
My two main issues with the cast were:
1. Dominic Keating as Lt. Reed. He was always just whiny/pouty.
2. Anthony Montgomery as Ensign Mayweather. He felt like a non-actor reading cue cards/a teleprompter most of the time.
I'm not sure if it's due to them having exceedingly limited range as actors, or if the directing was just as shit as most of the writing, but those two always struck me as being pretty bad.
Everyone on the show came across that way. It feels like an intentional direction they went with. Everyone was plastic, from Bakula on downwards.
DS9 had a problem where the cost of animating the classic bubble shield was steadily becoming too expensive(especially during the large Dominion War battles), so I wouldn't be surprised if that implementation was driven by an explicit desire to dodge animation costs.
aw I liked them, I always just felt like the writing never gave them any good material to work with
...how
Like "add a semi-transparent sphere of dimensions x,y,z units keyed to this model for 72 frames" seems like the cheapest possible aspect of any effects shot
90s computers man, they were special things. But yeah you'll notice towards the end of DS9 you just kind of stop seeing shield animations entirely after a certain point. Enterprise is just guesswork though, I'm basing it on nothing but precedent.
See, I thought Trip and Phlox were acted competently. I could see them on any other Trek show. Maybe T'Pol, too, if the show was purposely going for a "Vulcan who doesn't nearly have the emotional control you'd expect" character (and, indeed, I like her better than Michael Burnham in that kind of broad character space because at least T'Pol isn't perpetually on the edge of a nervous breakdown). And Mirror Hoshi was fun.
But, man, Bakula just seemed to have permanent constipation, and the other two I mentioned above were just... bad.
It was based on real science, I think. Shocking, I know. But the idea is that some ceramics can become many times stronger than steel by weight when polarized with a magnetic field, while also maintaining their primary advantage over most metals, i.e. they're ridiculously heat-resistant. So the implication is that the NX-01's hull plating is at least partly ceramic, and when they polarize it it suddenly becomes much harder to damage. This of course is never discussed in the show and it does basically act as their less-advanced version of "shields up."
I think.
that was always my take too and I thought was a neat idea because that is science I can see "today" vs shields are .. well who knows how that works, so here's this cool half-step. One thing I really appreciate now, post disco, is how hard the enterprise people at least "tried" to make it fit into the canon of how TNG was presented. It wasn't always successful but they were trying.
The latter series requires the willingness to serialize storylines and be a bit more realistic about the costs a journey like that would entail. The producers wanted something that didn’t require that level of continuity, so we got a show that may as well have been rejected scripts for a TNG S8.
The former series basically requires a love of TOS, and to lean into the potential for fun and more adventurous stories than TNG often had. Rick Berman and Brannon Braga thought TOS was embarrassing though, so we got a show that may as well have been rejected scripts for a TNG S8.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
We're almost to S6 though, so the Dominion War is gonna crank up that shit real fast.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
A fine and noble scene
Rick Berman's embarrassment about TOS (which I feel like some fans have inherited) was a real millstone around the neck of his era that caused a lot of unnecessary problems. It's part of why we had so many forehead aliens in brown pajamas, and it limited the kinds of stories that could be told,
As I was saying elsewhere, something I really appreciate about The Orville is that, despite basically being TNG fanfic, it borrows something I really love from TOS, which is a willingness to not be embarrassed and just go ahead and tell stories on "alien planets" that look exactly like modern LA or a studio back lot. TOS has plenty of great stories that are just "we had a Wild West street" or "we had a 30s street" and The Orville demonstrates that if the stories are good enough people really don't care.
Which, I guess, is why Berman and Braga were embarrassed? They were idiots, TOS was GREAT and this was part of its greatness.
It reminds me of the British or the BBC being embarassed about Dr. Who. Fuck you, that old DIY-look Sci Fi is grand.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Paramount_Stage_16
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
The greatness of TOS, IMO, was the chemistry of the cast and the strength of some of the writing/episodes, not the cheapass sets and wardrobe. (No, not even Bill Theiss' costumes for the female guest stars.)