Also Kira doesn't actually feel bad about anything she did during the Resistance.
And the non-starfleet characters in DS9 have a bevy of flaws. Quark, Garek, Nog, etc.
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
+1
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Yeah, double-hot, double-sweet. And sometimes when he drinks it, terrible things happen.
double strong, double sweet. who the hell has coffee double hot?
magma creatures?
also i think we know quite a bit about Garak's flaws, even with all the truth/lies. He's a loner (no judgement). He never really attaches himself closely to anyone, even the doctor relationship is more of a need to keep "in the know" of the station. He also is shown to care deeply for Cardassia, even at the expense of being able to go home.
Remember that time Harry fell in love with an alien but Janeway was convinced it was just because he got an STD from them
Jesus Harry got the worst stories
The only one good storyline was him and Chakotay being the only two survivors of Voyager's experimental quantum slipstream drive dooming the ship, and the guilt driving older Harry to become obsessed with saving everyone even at the cost of his own life. Of course, the time reset undid most of his character growth as older Harry succeeded in saving Voyager and undoing his own timeline.
The other ep where Voyager was caught in a temporal delay anomaly above an alien planet while Harry was stranded on the surface had some potential.
Also screw William Shatner for how piss poor he treated Garrett Wang. Can't buy class and manners, Kirk.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
edited December 2019
Also, if anyone wonders just how deep the rabbit hole goes when it comes to terrible Asian representation in Star Trek (3:30 for those who don't want to watch the whole thing): https://youtu.be/rSmt1bY-3YM
Also Kira doesn't actually feel bad about anything she did during the Resistance.
And the non-starfleet characters in DS9 have a bevy of flaws. Quark, Garek, Nog, etc.
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
Disagree. He lies constantly but he's quite consistent in his behaviour. He likes to think of himself as a hard man who will make hard decisions, and he will sometimes, but he's also too soft to really be another Tain.
I think Garak's main flaw is that he's so desperate to show his loyalty to Cardassia but Cardassia never fails to disappoint him. In a way it mirrors his relations with his father.
I think Garak's main flaw is that he's so desperate to show his loyalty to Cardassia but Cardassia never fails to disappoint him. In a way it mirrors his relations with his father.
/owenwilsonwowgif
Inquisitor77 on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Wait, you mean Garak is Cardassian Captain America?
Complete with an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm.
I was going to ask who is the Thanos who wrecks the shit out of that shield, but then that made me think about the identity of the Red Angel and I got mad again.
Also Kira doesn't actually feel bad about anything she did during the Resistance.
And the non-starfleet characters in DS9 have a bevy of flaws. Quark, Garek, Nog, etc.
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
Wait, you mean Garak is Cardassian Captain America?
Complete with an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm.
I was going to ask who is the Thanos who wrecks the shit out of that shield, but then that made me think about the identity of the Red Angel and I got mad again.
Thanks for the reminder. I'm now mad again that I called it the first time we saw the red angel and I was right. It's even more of a wet fart than Red John which was a terrible reveal (for different reasons) in a show that went on way too long but it was better than Discoverys (/ Discoveries?) Red Angel.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
"Wonderfully rich speaking voice" for Picard. Check.
"Natural walk of a striptease queen" for Beverley wtf?
Roddenberry was ... kind of gross, yeah. There are definitely Reasons why McFadden wasn't around in the second season.
That explicitly wasn't Roddenberry, but was either, uh, Maurice Hurley or Tracy Torme, who were executive script editors (and de facto co-showrunners) during s1 and s2.
Roddenberry had very little to do with the show after the pilot. A lot of behind-the-scenes stories about how he shot down this or that writer's script, or some lol lol dumb idea he had, later turned out to be his attorney, Leonard Maizlish, making a bunch of decisions and trying to run the show from the backseat.
+2
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Also, Geordi gets used in comedy scenes a lot - good ones, too. Just as the straight man to Data or Barclay.
Which is still a skill that requires comic timing.
Also, Geordi gets used in comedy scenes a lot - good ones, too. Just as the straight man to Data or Barclay.
Which is still a skill that requires comic timing.
I was, in fact, just thinking of two scenes - one in Barclay's introductory episode, "Hollow Pursuits" where Geordi plus Riker and Troi decide to have a look at what "Broccoli" is doing on the holodeck, and run right into (among other things) "the Goddess of Empathy"...
Troi: *horrified gasp* Geordi: oh... my... god.
and "Contagion", after he gets fried by a console(!) and Data flings him away with his android strength, then goes "ohcrap" and hurries to check on him as he's lying on the floor:
Geordi: Data? Data: Yes? Geordi: What happened? Data: Any answer would be mere speculation. This is yet another example of how our actions have random results. Geordi: Thanks, Data, I noticed.
Commander Zoom on
+5
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Wait, you mean Garak is Cardassian Captain America?
Complete with an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm.
I was going to ask who is the Thanos who wrecks the shit out of that shield, but then that made me think about the identity of the Red Angel and I got mad again.
Alright, you got me, it's not an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm so much as a collection of deeply personal jabs that will continue to burn long after Garrak successfully recovers from the concussion from the beating.
I think O'Brien is super relatable in every DS9 episode except for the ones that actually focus on him. Because all of those are dedicated to tormenting him in outlandish and increasingly terrible ways.
It makes me think there was a box in the writer's room for whenever they were struggling with new plots they'd just resort to grabbing whatever is in the "Torturing O'Brien" pile.
Sisko has the flaw, initially at least, of being mildly racist against Ferengi. Quark even calls him out on it in one episode.
Bashir lacks social skills.
Dax is ok at first, but turns into an immature brat when she starts dating Worf.
O'Brian has issues balancing family and career, with his wife having set her career aside to follow him to DS9... actually, now I really want to re-watch DS9 and see how much I relate to O'Brian. Watching him now that I have a family and an engineering career will probably feel very different from watching him as a teenager.
Morn won't shut up.
Rom lacks self-confidence.
Well, Sisko also fucked over an entire planet over Eddington and a sense of personal betrayal.
Sisko has the flaw, initially at least, of being mildly racist against Ferengi. Quark even calls him out on it in one episode.
Bashir lacks social skills.
Dax is ok at first, but turns into an immature brat when she starts dating Worf.
O'Brian has issues balancing family and career, with his wife having set her career aside to follow him to DS9... actually, now I really want to re-watch DS9 and see how much I relate to O'Brian. Watching him now that I have a family and an engineering career will probably feel very different from watching him as a teenager.
Morn won't shut up.
Rom lacks self-confidence.
Well, Sisko also fucked over an entire planet over Eddington and a sense of personal betrayal.
Also, you know, In the Pale Moonlight.
Yeah, I think those fall in the category of "Discovery-style super-flaws". I for one have never bio-bombarded an entire planet, so it's hard for me to relate to that.
I quite liked the "Kira wakes up and is suddenly a Cardassian" episode
Talk about gaslighting
I liked that Kira basically didn't fall for that shit for a second
Also, I ugly cry during every episode about a good Cardassian
Cardassia/Bajor was without a doubt the best premise to come out of TNG
Also, Discovery spoilers
Where Ash's plot line in Discovery comes from now makes far more sense now that I understand that they were trying to crib from this stuff in DS9, but it makes no fucking sense when the Klingons are doing it instead of the Cardassians.
The one with the transporter malfunction and the DS9 crew's bodies getting used in a holodeck program was a great one. Bashir and Garak save the day.
Well... Bashir saved the day, Garak kept trying to kill everyone for easy XP.
I do enjoy the extent to which that episode illustrates Garak and Bashir's characters well. Garak is all willing to play the game but in the end, he's perfectly comfortable killing everyone to save his own ass. And Bashir, for all the naivite that is usually associated with him, is willing to kill Garak to stop him.
Garak/Bashir's dynamic is really great. It definitely seems like it was born out of "we need to give Bashir something to do other than be a creep" but it really does help grow his character.
I wish Garak and Quark had more episodes together. That exchange they had in Profit and Loss was great, the whole time Garak looked like he's finally found someone that could speak his language.
Garak/Bashir's dynamic is really great. It definitely seems like it was born out of "we need to give Bashir something to do other than be a creep" but it really does help grow his character.
It's one of the great things about the TV format, especially when there's some wiggle room to improvise. You can put two characters together, see if they work and just keep doing it if it does.
I think Garak and Odo made a really great pairing too. He's like the polar opposite of Bashir when it comes to Garak and so they bounce off each other just as well in a completely different way.
+7
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Also Kira doesn't actually feel bad about anything she did during the Resistance.
And the non-starfleet characters in DS9 have a bevy of flaws. Quark, Garek, Nog, etc.
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
Bruh he wrote a book on it I recommend it
(but seriously it's good)
The fun thing about that book is that it started with the actor keeping an in-character diary for Garak in an attempt to better get into the character's head. As it developed he started using the perspectives in it - initially unbeknownst to the production team - to inform how Garak was reacting to whatever the scripts had him running into.
Also Kira doesn't actually feel bad about anything she did during the Resistance.
And the non-starfleet characters in DS9 have a bevy of flaws. Quark, Garek, Nog, etc.
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
Bruh he wrote a book on it I recommend it
(but seriously it's good)
The fun thing about that book is that it started with the actor keeping an in-character diary for Garak in an attempt to better get into the character's head. As it developed he started using the perspectives in it - initially unbeknownst to the production team - to inform how Garak was reacting to whatever the scripts had him running into.
The idea that Garak was hiding things from the production team is very good and right.
Posts
We know hardly one single thing about Garak's true character. He mostly showed people what he wanted them to see. I think the only indisputably honest things we saw from Garak were his need to be acknowledged by Enabran Tain and his intense claustrophobia from the same story arc. Everything else is guesswork at best.
Yeah, double-hot, double-sweet. And sometimes when he drinks it, terrible things happen.
double strong, double sweet. who the hell has coffee double hot?
magma creatures?
also i think we know quite a bit about Garak's flaws, even with all the truth/lies. He's a loner (no judgement). He never really attaches himself closely to anyone, even the doctor relationship is more of a need to keep "in the know" of the station. He also is shown to care deeply for Cardassia, even at the expense of being able to go home.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Wil Wheaton and Garrett Wang riffing on Shatner:
I know someone from Louisiana that put two squirts of hot sauce in his coffee.
Disagree. He lies constantly but he's quite consistent in his behaviour. He likes to think of himself as a hard man who will make hard decisions, and he will sometimes, but he's also too soft to really be another Tain.
*tears well in eyes
/owenwilsonwowgif
Complete with an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm.
I was going to ask who is the Thanos who wrecks the shit out of that shield, but then that made me think about the identity of the Red Angel and I got mad again.
Bruh he wrote a book on it I recommend it
(but seriously it's good)
Thanks for the reminder. I'm now mad again that I called it the first time we saw the red angel and I was right. It's even more of a wet fart than Red John which was a terrible reveal (for different reasons) in a show that went on way too long but it was better than Discoverys (/ Discoveries?) Red Angel.
That explicitly wasn't Roddenberry, but was either, uh, Maurice Hurley or Tracy Torme, who were executive script editors (and de facto co-showrunners) during s1 and s2.
Roddenberry had very little to do with the show after the pilot. A lot of behind-the-scenes stories about how he shot down this or that writer's script, or some lol lol dumb idea he had, later turned out to be his attorney, Leonard Maizlish, making a bunch of decisions and trying to run the show from the backseat.
Which is still a skill that requires comic timing.
I was, in fact, just thinking of two scenes - one in Barclay's introductory episode, "Hollow Pursuits" where Geordi plus Riker and Troi decide to have a look at what "Broccoli" is doing on the holodeck, and run right into (among other things) "the Goddess of Empathy"...
Troi: *horrified gasp*
Geordi: oh... my... god.
and "Contagion", after he gets fried by a console(!) and Data flings him away with his android strength, then goes "ohcrap" and hurries to check on him as he's lying on the floor:
Geordi: Data?
Data: Yes?
Geordi: What happened?
Data: Any answer would be mere speculation. This is yet another example of how our actions have random results.
Geordi: Thanks, Data, I noticed.
Alright, you got me, it's not an unbreakable shield of cutting sarcasm so much as a collection of deeply personal jabs that will continue to burn long after Garrak successfully recovers from the concussion from the beating.
It makes me think there was a box in the writer's room for whenever they were struggling with new plots they'd just resort to grabbing whatever is in the "Torturing O'Brien" pile.
*squints at username* I see...
Well... Bashir saved the day, Garak kept trying to kill everyone for easy XP.
Well, Sisko also fucked over an entire planet over Eddington and a sense of personal betrayal.
Also, you know, In the Pale Moonlight.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Yeah, I think those fall in the category of "Discovery-style super-flaws". I for one have never bio-bombarded an entire planet, so it's hard for me to relate to that.
Talk about gaslighting
I liked that Kira basically didn't fall for that shit for a second
Also, I ugly cry during every episode about a good Cardassian
Cardassia/Bajor was without a doubt the best premise to come out of TNG
Also, Discovery spoilers
I do enjoy the extent to which that episode illustrates Garak and Bashir's characters well. Garak is all willing to play the game but in the end, he's perfectly comfortable killing everyone to save his own ass. And Bashir, for all the naivite that is usually associated with him, is willing to kill Garak to stop him.
Garak, of course, approves of this.
It's one of the great things about the TV format, especially when there's some wiggle room to improvise. You can put two characters together, see if they work and just keep doing it if it does.
I think Garak and Odo made a really great pairing too. He's like the polar opposite of Bashir when it comes to Garak and so they bounce off each other just as well in a completely different way.
Fucking Morn. I don't know why people love him so much. Everytime he's on screen I just hit the mute button, and I don't feel like I missed anything.
The fun thing about that book is that it started with the actor keeping an in-character diary for Garak in an attempt to better get into the character's head. As it developed he started using the perspectives in it - initially unbeknownst to the production team - to inform how Garak was reacting to whatever the scripts had him running into.
The idea that Garak was hiding things from the production team is very good and right.