Rey absolutely doesn't need to be a Palpatine to "make sense"
All she needs to be is a person
the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
Rey absolutely doesn't need to be a Palpatine to "make sense"
All she needs to be is a person
the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
I could not give a shit about power levels hoss this argument holds no water
The Force can manifest in whoever it wants and to the degree it wants, it absolutely does not need to be hereditary
Rogue One still has the best star battle of the new movies.
It actually has my favorite combination of ground, air, and space battles, period. It felt like the three were intimately connected at all times, with well-paced, plot-driven action beats that had some truly memorable moments.
Love to have this big four-decade-old series taking place in this big vast universe and only ever focusing on two straight white families because if even a slightly bigger risk is ever taken once, 40% of the fans absolutely lose their fucking minds and wonder why you'd ever bother
Rey absolutely doesn't need to be a Palpatine to "make sense"
All she needs to be is a person
the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
Even if that were true (it isn't) it's a deeply, deeply stupid idea and part of the worst parts of the fanbases tendency to make Lore and Established Canon more important than anything, especially thematic sense.
Rey absolutely doesn't need to be a Palpatine to "make sense"
All she needs to be is a person
the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
I could not give a shit about power levels hoss this argument holds no water
The Force can manifest in whoever it wants and to the degree it wants, it absolutely does not need to be hereditary
no, but the series is all about legacy
could they have satisfyingly made a star wars finale with rey as still just Rey Nobody?
sure
but they went with the satisfying one with Rey Palpatine
and hey i was sad they walked back on finn and rose but you can't always get what you want can ya
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
Love to have this big four-decade-old series taking place in this big vast universe and only ever focusing on two straight white families because if even a slightly bigger risk is ever taken once, 40% of the fans absolutely lose their fucking minds and wonder why you'd ever bother
It’s the thing where you’re a chance-taking game-changer at the jump but then you fall into your own formulaic trap because the outlandish level of success you’ve achieved is now something you can’t risk losing. There’s a term for that, surely.
Rey absolutely doesn't need to be a Palpatine to "make sense"
All she needs to be is a person
the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
I could not give a shit about power levels hoss this argument holds no water
The Force can manifest in whoever it wants and to the degree it wants, it absolutely does not need to be hereditary
no, but the series is all about legacy
could they have satisfyingly made a star wars finale with rey as still just Rey Nobody?
sure
but they went with the satisfying one with Rey Palpatine
and hey i was sad they walked back on finn and rose but you can't always get what you want can ya
The idea that legacy is based on acts and casting a light forward into the dark is a hell of of a lot better than the idea of legacy as a genetic predisposition to wizardry and plot relevance.
I ate an engineer
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
People who force (heh) legacy and birthright and blood into a place it actually fundamentally does not belong is, well, just not a good message to send, period!
"Anybody can be a hero and family/inheritance isn't the most important thing to being able to achieve greatness or happiness? sounds fake, can't have that even in fictional films"
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited December 2019
The reveal of Luke and Vader being related was NOT about establishing the importance of birthright. It was about redemption and how close you can come to becoming what you fear and hate - a parent/child bond DOES work to tell that story. I get that they tried to repeat this with Rey being related to Palpatine, but imho they failed because they reveal it and resolve it with basically no space for this to grow into a more interesting conflict.
But making greatness a genetic trait? Genetics defining greatness?
I mean, surely folks can understand why this extension from the original Luke/Vader parent/child conflict is bad?
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
The one justification I can think of for Rey Palpatine that kinda works is how quickly Rey reaches for the dark side in TLJ. BUT EVEN THEN, it implies then that EVIL is inherently genetic - she was never raised by Palpatine or had any time with him to have influenced her. It’s arguing strongly that evil is in one’s nature.
They could have potentially established a similar conflict re: temptation to the dark side a number of other ways. It didn’t have to be lineage.
While I'm grinding axes, I guess, I really hate how the light speed ramming became some sort of "sign" of how dumb TLJ was because it was a Cinema-Sins ding moment instead of being remembered as both thematically appropriate and visually awe-inspiring
but you could also argue rey's most important powers don't come from her biological family at all
the thing can't send every message to every one. it's about legacy but it's about choosing which legacy you take on. it's about power but power through connection and life as opposed to control and glory.
it's not about white supremacy unless the series as a whole is. the rise of skywalker did not establish the most powerful force users as inheriting their ability. it could have subverted it but it didn't. it subverted a bunch of other toxic shit instead
Rey being nobody makes for a far more satisfying movie than suddenly having Palpatine jammed into the movie.
Kylo still tries to turn her, but now her emotions have a better source: being sold by her parents on some backwater world so they could get a ship to take them off-world. Maybe the Sith planet has secret weapons so you still have the race to find the planet and Kylo gets there first so you get a big cgi space fight.
And it makes the fucking ending MEAN something, because Rey learns to let go of her parents and understand what family truly is. As is, her name isn’t just Rey because she has parents and they were good people protecting and ugdhduwhdiehdi.
Worst of all, we have to live with this knowledge: Palpatine fucks. Don’t come at me with this clone shit. Palpy had horrible Sith sex and that night of eldritch passion is canon.
+25
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited December 2019
There were things I did like:
- Ben’s surprise lightsaber, having been set up multiple times in the movie
- Adam Driver’s acting chops
- the music
- Rey’s new lightsaber
- Rey in Red-5
While I'm grinding axes, I guess, I really hate how the light speed ramming became some sort of "sign" of how dumb TLJ was because it was a Cinema-Sins ding moment instead of being remembered as both thematically appropriate and visually awe-inspiring
Okay what did they do with the Holdo maneuver did someone in the movie call it out or what
While I'm grinding axes, I guess, I really hate how the light speed ramming became some sort of "sign" of how dumb TLJ was because it was a Cinema-Sins ding moment instead of being remembered as both thematically appropriate and visually awe-inspiring
Okay what did they do with the Holdo maneuver did someone in the movie call it out or what
I'm like hopping mad and there was only one genuine moment I liked in this movie and that is when they let Adam Driver do a genuine acting thing with Han
Rey being nobody makes for a far more satisfying movie than suddenly having Palpatine jammed into the movie.
Kylo still tries to turn her, but now her emotions have a better source: being sold by her parents on some backwater world so they could get a ship to take them off-world. Maybe the Sith planet has secret weapons so you still have the race to find the planet and Kylo gets there first so you get a big cgi space fight.
And it makes the fucking ending MEAN something, because Rey learns to let go of her parents and understand what family truly is. As is, her name isn’t just Rey because she has parents and they were good people protecting and ugdhduwhdiehdi.
They completely missed an opportunity for Rey to basically realize that “well fine, my parents were shitty no ones, but me? I won’t be them. I not going to be no one, I’m going to be someone.”
Imagine the impact that message could’ve had, especially if even Rey herself wanted to believe she was born from some Big Name, only to have the disappointment land in TLJ, and then this movie could’ve been about resolving to rise to the occasion not because you are beholden to some legacy, but because you CHOSE to, because YOU could. That’s an infinitely more empowering message, AND it’s fundamentally different to the original trilogy - we’ve already seen the damn story of fearing that your power will lead you astray like your dad did. We don’t need to see it again! Instead, this one is more about facing your own demons (not your family’s, YOURS) and about self-determination.
This was real bad; it had worse pacing, framing, and editing than any other Star Wars movie by a long shot, and it lacked the thematic cohesion that was one of the saving graces of even the worst pictures in the franchise. I have seen some stinkers this year in terms of big blockbusters and I don't know if this is the worst but it's definitely the one that most terribly squandered the potential of its premise, its setting, and the movie that came before. They didn't give Daisy Ridley any scenes in which she was allowed to act, I'm so mad at that
The first forty-five minutes is just a long series of "Hey we need a thing!" and then another character going "Hey here's the thing" or else "Hey I have a thing" leading to "Here you need this thing, take it"
There were things I did like:
- Ben’s surprise lightsaber, having been set up multiple times in the movie
- Adam Driver’s acting chops
- the music
- Rey’s new lightsaber
- Rey in Red-5
Also, they did a good close-up of the hilt of Leia's lightsaber, so at least people who want to cosplay Jedi-training Leia have something to work from now.
Also we need to name the thing where a Disney movie has two gay background characters kiss and lets the camera stay on them a hair longer so we don’t miss The Representation.
I liked light speed skipping. Just "I don't care, hit the button, fucking gooooo oh god we're inside a volcano fucking hit it again ahhhhh" is a fun concept
I liked light speed skipping. Just "I don't care, hit the button, fucking gooooo oh god we're inside a volcano fucking hit it again ahhhhh" is a fun concept
But TIE fighters don't have hyperdrives!
Yeah, the hyperdrives in the TIE's were exponentially worse to me than the Falcon skipping. I hate myself.
Also, I was waiting for someone to use the term God-Emperor based on how Sheev looked / how he was connected to that metal arm.
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The thing is, even ignoring that I hated every plot point and retcon and absurd tie in they did, I'm sure that this was just a bad movie? Shot poorly, cut like a maniac, with absolutely no room to breathe
surely the dumbest thing was rey figuring out the dagger is a perspective puzzle in the exact position she needed to be to solve the puzzle
edit: i'd have cut most of that endor moon shit out. just start with rey on the skimmer heading over. no space horses at all, no loss
Yeah. Both Blake and I were still mad about this when we woke up this morning. It’s comical HOW MUCH it bothered both of us.
Edit: that said, without the space horses, you wouldn’t have met Rose’s less controversial replacement and gotten to witness her literally only interact meaningfully with the other black people in the movie!
I stared at the screen, mouth agape, when Palpatine explained that he was the embodiment of all Sith who had ever lived and that if she killed him then he would soul transfer into Rey and assimilate her
When he said to the audience "I am every Sith," I quietly begged God "no" for the seventeen seconds—the longest period of time in this movie not punctuated by an explosion—before Rey replied "And I am every Jedi" because she was literally the embodiment of every Jedi who had ever lived
I couldn’t help but feel that Palpatine’s lightning storm scene was kinda trying to recreate that, but it just didn’t quite hit the mark.
The Holdo Maneuver was probably the most beautiful single shot in Star Wars; it was genuinely, really artful
Palpatine's Force Storm was like watching Ghidorah fight the air force in King of the Monsters, except it was even more pointless because nobody died
When The Holdo Maneuver happened in TLJ, the entire theater was rendered perfectly silent. I quietly said holy shit under my breath, and the guy next to me, who I didn't know, responded with an affirmative holy shit.
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the force has never actually worked like that though. you don't just face off with vader jr. untrained and live to tell the tale unless you're more than just a force-sensitive ex-stormtrooper
I could not give a shit about power levels hoss this argument holds no water
The Force can manifest in whoever it wants and to the degree it wants, it absolutely does not need to be hereditary
It actually has my favorite combination of ground, air, and space battles, period. It felt like the three were intimately connected at all times, with well-paced, plot-driven action beats that had some truly memorable moments.
Fuck it I’m going to watch Rogue One right now.
Steam
Even if that were true (it isn't) it's a deeply, deeply stupid idea and part of the worst parts of the fanbases tendency to make Lore and Established Canon more important than anything, especially thematic sense.
no, but the series is all about legacy
could they have satisfyingly made a star wars finale with rey as still just Rey Nobody?
sure
but they went with the satisfying one with Rey Palpatine
and hey i was sad they walked back on finn and rose but you can't always get what you want can ya
It’s the thing where you’re a chance-taking game-changer at the jump but then you fall into your own formulaic trap because the outlandish level of success you’ve achieved is now something you can’t risk losing. There’s a term for that, surely.
The idea that legacy is based on acts and casting a light forward into the dark is a hell of of a lot better than the idea of legacy as a genetic predisposition to wizardry and plot relevance.
Steam
But making greatness a genetic trait? Genetics defining greatness?
I mean, surely folks can understand why this extension from the original Luke/Vader parent/child conflict is bad?
They could have potentially established a similar conflict re: temptation to the dark side a number of other ways. It didn’t have to be lineage.
This is definitely the best part of the movie, that was really great.
I liked it, but felt it was rushed. It's definitely trying to fit too much movie into one movie.
I think people saying it's worse than the prequels are out of their damn minds.
but you could also argue rey's most important powers don't come from her biological family at all
the thing can't send every message to every one. it's about legacy but it's about choosing which legacy you take on. it's about power but power through connection and life as opposed to control and glory.
it's not about white supremacy unless the series as a whole is. the rise of skywalker did not establish the most powerful force users as inheriting their ability. it could have subverted it but it didn't. it subverted a bunch of other toxic shit instead
Kylo still tries to turn her, but now her emotions have a better source: being sold by her parents on some backwater world so they could get a ship to take them off-world. Maybe the Sith planet has secret weapons so you still have the race to find the planet and Kylo gets there first so you get a big cgi space fight.
And it makes the fucking ending MEAN something, because Rey learns to let go of her parents and understand what family truly is. As is, her name isn’t just Rey because she has parents and they were good people protecting and ugdhduwhdiehdi.
Worst of all, we have to live with this knowledge: Palpatine fucks. Don’t come at me with this clone shit. Palpy had horrible Sith sex and that night of eldritch passion is canon.
- Ben’s surprise lightsaber, having been set up multiple times in the movie
- Adam Driver’s acting chops
- the music
- Rey’s new lightsaber
- Rey in Red-5
And she was flying through the red maelstrom with them in attack position!
Okay what did they do with the Holdo maneuver did someone in the movie call it out or what
Iirc they handwaved why it won't work again
I'M MAD
I'm like hopping mad and there was only one genuine moment I liked in this movie and that is when they let Adam Driver do a genuine acting thing with Han
That's it
End
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They completely missed an opportunity for Rey to basically realize that “well fine, my parents were shitty no ones, but me? I won’t be them. I not going to be no one, I’m going to be someone.”
Imagine the impact that message could’ve had, especially if even Rey herself wanted to believe she was born from some Big Name, only to have the disappointment land in TLJ, and then this movie could’ve been about resolving to rise to the occasion not because you are beholden to some legacy, but because you CHOSE to, because YOU could. That’s an infinitely more empowering message, AND it’s fundamentally different to the original trilogy - we’ve already seen the damn story of fearing that your power will lead you astray like your dad did. We don’t need to see it again! Instead, this one is more about facing your own demons (not your family’s, YOURS) and about self-determination.
Fuck now I’m all mad this didn’t happen.
@Blake T said exactly the same thing!!!
Hm
This was real bad; it had worse pacing, framing, and editing than any other Star Wars movie by a long shot, and it lacked the thematic cohesion that was one of the saving graces of even the worst pictures in the franchise. I have seen some stinkers this year in terms of big blockbusters and I don't know if this is the worst but it's definitely the one that most terribly squandered the potential of its premise, its setting, and the movie that came before. They didn't give Daisy Ridley any scenes in which she was allowed to act, I'm so mad at that
The first forty-five minutes is just a long series of "Hey we need a thing!" and then another character going "Hey here's the thing" or else "Hey I have a thing" leading to "Here you need this thing, take it"
I couldn’t help but feel that Palpatine’s lightning storm scene was kinda trying to recreate that, but it just didn’t quite hit the mark.
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Also, they did a good close-up of the hilt of Leia's lightsaber, so at least people who want to cosplay Jedi-training Leia have something to work from now.
The Holdo Maneuver was probably the most beautiful single shot in Star Wars; it was genuinely, really artful
Palpatine's Force Storm was like watching Ghidorah fight the air force in King of the Monsters, except it was even more pointless because nobody died
"We should do the Holdo maneuver!"
"That won't work, it was a one in a million shot."
MF'ers, there were LINES of Star Destroyers barely moving that couldn't transit out.
This bugged me far more than it should've. I really hate myself for caring about it. That and light speed skipping. What?
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
But TIE fighters don't have hyperdrives!
edit: i'd have cut most of that endor moon shit out. just start with rey on the skimmer heading over. no space horses at all, no loss
Yeah, the hyperdrives in the TIE's were exponentially worse to me than the Falcon skipping. I hate myself.
Also, I was waiting for someone to use the term God-Emperor based on how Sheev looked / how he was connected to that metal arm.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
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Yeah. Both Blake and I were still mad about this when we woke up this morning. It’s comical HOW MUCH it bothered both of us.
Edit: that said, without the space horses, you wouldn’t have met Rose’s less controversial replacement and gotten to witness her literally only interact meaningfully with the other black people in the movie!
When he said to the audience "I am every Sith," I quietly begged God "no" for the seventeen seconds—the longest period of time in this movie not punctuated by an explosion—before Rey replied "And I am every Jedi" because she was literally the embodiment of every Jedi who had ever lived
When The Holdo Maneuver happened in TLJ, the entire theater was rendered perfectly silent. I quietly said holy shit under my breath, and the guy next to me, who I didn't know, responded with an affirmative holy shit.