Speaking of their UI, Pablo just dropped a longform on the forums about their UI methodology...
The choice that drives us
The two most common types of feedback we get are
1. Need more information
2. This is overwhelming
These two are generally the forces that pull us in opposite directions. On rare occasions, you can find some solutions that make a screen less overwhelming, without having to lower the amount of information displayed at once, but for the most part, these are two conflicting objectives.
The compromise we arrived at to try and circle this square, was to use a variant of progressive disclosure, which in practice means we add more information, but put it behind rollovers or clicks.
It's all a pretty good read.
It also includes the introduction of the terrible idea of showcasing players more than they did before. Performance stats in Co-op games just encourage in-competition between players. ugh.
here's the sample:
I'm going to assume that the number of things you picked up is going to be shown, preferably as a default option and not a hover because why? Players who've been playing a while would recognize credits and the other stuff... but how many of them gained is of equal importance.
Reputation not requiring another tab with tons of dead space vs information is good. The subtle change in color for normal vs bonus, not so much. Though I guess there will be themes to address that with better colors. But it really shows how they try to straddle that line.
edit: also just noticed they don't show you how much credits, plat, etc that you have on that EoM screen either? hm..
edit: Pablo mentioned the lack of numbers is because it's a mockup.
End of mission: There will be item counts just like in any other grid, the mock is essentially just saying, space for 10 things. Also a title and whatnot, the mock is still WIP and generally they also change as we implement. In both sections we would have sorting, so if you got Intrinsics that would be sorted to the top of progression, if you were doing a Simaris daily his rep would sort up, but if you jsut scanned a few enemies it would be lower down. So hopefully with this, 6 slots is enough to show you the important stuff you got that mission.
Good to know.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Another thing not being discussed is that getting the biggest damage numbers possible is not every player's goal when choosing how to mod their weapons. Modding weapons to kill people is the most straightforward way to use them, but you can actually mod them for a lot of different uses. It would be presumptuous of DE to assume that all new players want to use the same cookie cutter "meta" damage builds.
I realized today that I bought the wrong Eidolon lens, for Vazarin instead of Zenurik, last time I had a coupon to burn. Reading up on it, though, I think I’m actually going to main this focus school for the affinity radius buff when doing sorties and other co-op. I hear it even works in archwing. Anything that speeds up that leveling grind is welcome.
Another thing not being discussed is that getting the biggest damage numbers possible is not every player's goal when choosing how to mod their weapons. Modding weapons to kill people is the most straightforward way to use them, but you can actually mod them for a lot of different uses. It would be presumptuous of DE to assume that all new players want to use the same cookie cutter "meta" damage builds.
Yeah, I’m a big fan of “quality of life” builds. If it bumps the magazine, speeds up reloads, raises the fire rate cap on semi-autos, or tones down nasty recoil, I’ll take that over killing something big in a few less shots. Most weapons aren’t worth using on enemies they won’t immediately send to Valhalla, anyway.
Zoku Gojira on
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
Mesa is just wacky on a defense mission. Like she's a deadly lawn sprinkler.
Loki... feels redundant. I'm not sure where he would be more useful than any other frame once you have Ivara.
He gets to actually move while cloaked. I can finish spy missions way faster with Loki because I can be invisible and still be fast. For me Ivara is sortie defense missions only and the occasional riven cracking. That aside Loki is pretty much always faster if I actually want to be undetected.
a. Permastealth (as in "I recharge more energy while stealthed than it takes to restealth")
b. Every weapon can be silenced when he's stealthed
c. Can get around obstacles in many ways, including switch teleporting his own decoys.
d. 60 second Wall-latch for those "Do stuff while wall latched" Rivens.
Meanwhile, I don't really "get" Ivara. She does have her specialist arrows, but there is no way those arrows make up for stealth-parkour.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
a. Permastealth (as in "I recharge more energy while stealthed than it takes to restealth")
b. Every weapon can be silenced when he's stealthed
c. Can get around obstacles in many ways, including switch teleporting his own decoys.
d. 60 second Wall-latch for those "Do stuff while wall latched" Rivens.
Meanwhile, I don't really "get" Ivara. She does have her specialist arrows, but there is no way those arrows make up for stealth-parkour.
Ivara is great for some things. Babysitting the strolling dumbass in sortie defense missions is doable with Frost but it's so much easier when I can just pump 30+ second cloak arrows into him instead and I wouldn't even bother with conservation goals without her sleep arrow. And with Ivara Prime? I can literally go make a sandwich while cloaked, eat it, and still come back to almost an almost 50% energy supply.
But when it comes to just plain old spy missions? Naw, I'll take not having to walk everywhere over lasers not being a thing any day.
Personally, to me not having to spend time re-zenuriking and recasting and keeping an eye on the 20s timer on the cloak is more than worth not having the ability to bullet jump. I hate the whole "bullet jump constantly on flat corridors for faster" thing anyway, and never do it when playing solo (and Spy missions are 100% solo) - plus it bothers me when people detect me in a Spy mission even if I kill them before alarm, which Loki causes me to do a lot as cloak runs out. So I just bring Ivara, pop pizza at beginning of mission, cloak, never have to de-invis in the entire stage because she has like 600 energy on a single mod, and if I feel like leveling a melee weapon while I'm doing it her sleep arrows make every kill a stealth kill which means +500% affinity (please bring back stealth bonuses with ranged weapons too).
Personally, to me not having to spend time re-zenuriking and recasting and keeping an eye on the 20s timer on the cloak is more than worth not having the ability to bullet jump. I hate the whole "bullet jump constantly on flat corridors for faster" thing anyway, and never do it when playing solo (and Spy missions are 100% solo) - plus it bothers me when people detect me in a Spy mission even if I kill them before alarm, which Loki causes me to do a lot as cloak runs out. So I just bring Ivara, pop pizza at beginning of mission, cloak, never have to de-invis in the entire stage because she has like 600 energy on a single mod, and if I feel like leveling a melee weapon while I'm doing it her sleep arrows make every kill a stealth kill which means +500% affinity (please bring back stealth bonuses with ranged weapons too).
I can understand that but my Loki cloak lasts over 30 seconds which is almost universally enough to get me from vault to vault.
And walking in Warframe is almost painful to me. It's like playing Tribes and deciding it's wrong to ski. Just... *full body shivers*
Personally, to me not having to spend time re-zenuriking and recasting and keeping an eye on the 20s timer on the cloak is more than worth not having the ability to bullet jump. I hate the whole "bullet jump constantly on flat corridors for faster" thing anyway, and never do it when playing solo (and Spy missions are 100% solo) - plus it bothers me when people detect me in a Spy mission even if I kill them before alarm, which Loki causes me to do a lot as cloak runs out. So I just bring Ivara, pop pizza at beginning of mission, cloak, never have to de-invis in the entire stage because she has like 600 energy on a single mod, and if I feel like leveling a melee weapon while I'm doing it her sleep arrows make every kill a stealth kill which means +500% affinity (please bring back stealth bonuses with ranged weapons too).
I can understand that but my Loki cloak lasts over 30 seconds which is almost universally enough to get me from vault to vault.
And walking in Warframe is almost painful to me. It's like playing Tribes and deciding it's wrong to ski. Just... *full body shivers*
Basically, the thing is it looks dumb, does not interact with the map, and just serves to tire out my pinky finger. To me it has much more in common with bunnyhopping in Quake than with Tribes skiing in terms of feeling.
I've recently come to appreciate Loki as good for Railjack. It makes it really easy to deal with boarders when you can 4 all their guns away, and it makes it really easy to deal with crewships when you can move quickly in stealth.
He's versatile, so I can take him on a range of missions, he can switch teleport the Lich to where the enemies are to speed up thrall conversion and being stealthed helps with actually shooting at the Lich, because they keep still.
Khora is my best gal when it comes to Railjack. She's extremely tough, entagle allows her to stun entire boarding parties (and conveniently pulls everyone into a blob where my Kuva Chakkhurr has maximum efficiency), Venari can heal her pretty quickly and all you have to do to regenerate energy is let the enemies take a few shots at you before you entangle them.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Re: Stealth
Meanwhile my girl Octavia is over here, dancing and DJing her way through missions like she belongs there.
Why no one mentions her in conversations like this baffles me. Her stealth is better than Loki's (longer duration and refreshable with no break) and the rest of her kit is really versatile.
Meanwhile my girl Octavia is over here, dancing and DJing her way through missions like she belongs there.
Why no one mentions her in conversations like this baffles me. Her stealth is better than Loki's (longer duration and refreshable with no break) and the rest of her kit is really versatile.
It requires you to have rhythm (to crouch on the beat), which a lot of us... do not.
Meanwhile my girl Octavia is over here, dancing and DJing her way through missions like she belongs there.
Why no one mentions her in conversations like this baffles me. Her stealth is better than Loki's (longer duration and refreshable with no break) and the rest of her kit is really versatile.
It requires you to have rhythm (to crouch on the beat), which a lot of us... do not.
Just use E1M1 as your song and spam crouch, no rhythm required!
Loki stealth: press a button, otherwise act normally.
Ivara stealth: press a button, move slower (jumping will allow you to move faster with Ivara, btw. not the bullet jump, but just regular double jumping forward. sometimes you can roll too? but the jumping works more in my experience.).
Octavia stealth: make a song, press a button to play a song, "dance" to the song.
Simplicity wins, imo.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Loki's utility to me is "a stealth frame I don't have to grind for like Ivara". Simple as that.
Also speed. Loki doesn't break stealth every time I do anything other than walk :P
Should try Ivara Prime with her Prowl augment. Damn near as fast as usual.
Does it allow her to slide or bullet jump?
No, but you can dodge roll. I basically bound roll to a single key and just dodge roll around levels. Also, while stealthed her base speed is normal on ziplines, so if you're using her Infiltrate mod, she actually moves *much faster* on ziplines. So... again, you can zipline, dodge roll, double jump, and aim glide without breaking her stealth. It's only slide & bullet jump that break it.
Meanwhile my girl Octavia is over here, dancing and DJing her way through missions like she belongs there.
Why no one mentions her in conversations like this baffles me. Her stealth is better than Loki's (longer duration and refreshable with no break) and the rest of her kit is really versatile.
It requires you to have rhythm (to crouch on the beat), which a lot of us... do not.
Just use E1M1 as your song and spam crouch, no rhythm required!
It's literally trivial to trigger the stealth. Mash on the crouch, and you're 99% likely to trigger it. Anyone that's not an actual monster sets their songs up this way.
Also, did you know you can crouch while aim gliding? If you're playing Octavia, there's zero need to stop to trigger it.
And I do have E1M1 as a song, but I only use that when it's RIP AND TEAR time.
MR14 get. Ballistica Prime and Tiberon Prime in the oven now. Glad to be past the weapon cooking blockers finally. MR just blocks certain Rivens now, right?
I'm kind of amazed that people put anything less than MK III equipment on their personal Railjacks. I mean, clearly someone has to or people like me wouldn't be able to get anywhere, but it's still a pretty big personal sacrifice.
Posts
It's all a pretty good read.
It also includes the introduction of the terrible idea of showcasing players more than they did before. Performance stats in Co-op games just encourage in-competition between players. ugh.
here's the sample:
I'm going to assume that the number of things you picked up is going to be shown, preferably as a default option and not a hover because why? Players who've been playing a while would recognize credits and the other stuff... but how many of them gained is of equal importance.
Reputation not requiring another tab with tons of dead space vs information is good. The subtle change in color for normal vs bonus, not so much. Though I guess there will be themes to address that with better colors. But it really shows how they try to straddle that line.
edit: also just noticed they don't show you how much credits, plat, etc that you have on that EoM screen either? hm..
edit: Pablo mentioned the lack of numbers is because it's a mockup.
Good to know.
Yeah, I’m a big fan of “quality of life” builds. If it bumps the magazine, speeds up reloads, raises the fire rate cap on semi-autos, or tones down nasty recoil, I’ll take that over killing something big in a few less shots. Most weapons aren’t worth using on enemies they won’t immediately send to Valhalla, anyway.
Mesa is just wacky on a defense mission. Like she's a deadly lawn sprinkler.
Loki... feels redundant. I'm not sure where he would be more useful than any other frame once you have Ivara.
He gets to actually move while cloaked. I can finish spy missions way faster with Loki because I can be invisible and still be fast. For me Ivara is sortie defense missions only and the occasional riven cracking. That aside Loki is pretty much always faster if I actually want to be undetected.
Apparently Loki's passive is... bonus wall latch duration? Zzz.
Like, not useless, but I can't see using Loki instead if Ivara for stealth or almost anything else I have for any other kind of mission.
Also speed. Loki doesn't break stealth every time I do anything other than walk :P
I don't think so but spend that before the next one starts because it doesn't carry over.
a. Permastealth (as in "I recharge more energy while stealthed than it takes to restealth")
b. Every weapon can be silenced when he's stealthed
c. Can get around obstacles in many ways, including switch teleporting his own decoys.
d. 60 second Wall-latch for those "Do stuff while wall latched" Rivens.
Meanwhile, I don't really "get" Ivara. She does have her specialist arrows, but there is no way those arrows make up for stealth-parkour.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Ivara is great for some things. Babysitting the strolling dumbass in sortie defense missions is doable with Frost but it's so much easier when I can just pump 30+ second cloak arrows into him instead and I wouldn't even bother with conservation goals without her sleep arrow. And with Ivara Prime? I can literally go make a sandwich while cloaked, eat it, and still come back to almost an almost 50% energy supply.
But when it comes to just plain old spy missions? Naw, I'll take not having to walk everywhere over lasers not being a thing any day.
Should try Ivara Prime with her Prowl augment. Damn near as fast as usual.
Does it allow her to slide or bullet jump?
Don't think so, but I just trot around making rude faces at everything while picking their pockets, so it's all good.
I can understand that but my Loki cloak lasts over 30 seconds which is almost universally enough to get me from vault to vault.
And walking in Warframe is almost painful to me. It's like playing Tribes and deciding it's wrong to ski. Just... *full body shivers*
Basically, the thing is it looks dumb, does not interact with the map, and just serves to tire out my pinky finger. To me it has much more in common with bunnyhopping in Quake than with Tribes skiing in terms of feeling.
Hey, that's one of Spider-Man's two most iconic powers!
Valkyr got the other one.
He's versatile, so I can take him on a range of missions, he can switch teleport the Lich to where the enemies are to speed up thrall conversion and being stealthed helps with actually shooting at the Lich, because they keep still.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Meanwhile my girl Octavia is over here, dancing and DJing her way through missions like she belongs there.
Why no one mentions her in conversations like this baffles me. Her stealth is better than Loki's (longer duration and refreshable with no break) and the rest of her kit is really versatile.
It requires you to have rhythm (to crouch on the beat), which a lot of us... do not.
Just use E1M1 as your song and spam crouch, no rhythm required!
Ivara stealth: press a button, move slower (jumping will allow you to move faster with Ivara, btw. not the bullet jump, but just regular double jumping forward. sometimes you can roll too? but the jumping works more in my experience.).
Octavia stealth: make a song, press a button to play a song, "dance" to the song.
Simplicity wins, imo.
Yeah. Ivara is straight up broken when it comes to conservation.
No, but you can dodge roll. I basically bound roll to a single key and just dodge roll around levels. Also, while stealthed her base speed is normal on ziplines, so if you're using her Infiltrate mod, she actually moves *much faster* on ziplines. So... again, you can zipline, dodge roll, double jump, and aim glide without breaking her stealth. It's only slide & bullet jump that break it.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
It's literally trivial to trigger the stealth. Mash on the crouch, and you're 99% likely to trigger it. Anyone that's not an actual monster sets their songs up this way.
Also, did you know you can crouch while aim gliding? If you're playing Octavia, there's zero need to stop to trigger it.
And I do have E1M1 as a song, but I only use that when it's RIP AND TEAR time.
Soon as I can put Suppress on it, it's going to be my go-to Ivara secondary
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Once you establish the beachhead, victory follows!
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
No spare blade on me at the moment but I've got 25 relics for it if you wanna go relic cracking sometime.