Well. Their light locking weapons solution ought to fix FOMO alright.
Invalidating all the godrolls I spent weeks to months grinding for, or invested painful crucible hours in learning to use well. That makes me no longer fear missing out on new content.
Because I’m entirely discouraged from ever bothering to grind new rolls, whether it’s content that’s time limited or not.
Why invest the time when they don’t respect it? When it’ll be useless outside of patrol in a season or two?
Can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot every time they do something good. Trials might be great but I don’t know if I’ll b out her now
Except the problem is that there is no reason to get new rolls when you already have something just as good you got a year and a half ago. Why invest the time in getting new weapons when you already have ones that do the job?
They aren't wrong with the Magic comparison. Or the MMO comparison. There's a reason they rotate things out of play.
To be fair, the last major vendor refresh was a year and a half ago.
I use Y1 weapons and Season of the Dawn weapons and everything inbetween. I don't think what Bungie is trying to solve is a problem.
It's definitely a problem imo. People been talking about it for awhile. Even a lot of content creators sort of subtly hint at it with new weapon reviews and such. "Here's the niche reason you might need this" or "This rolls with this one unique perk combo that might be good or you might like" is mostly what you get, rather then "This thing is the new hotness!".
For the most obvious example, at least imo, you can just look at Erentil. It's like "Here's a new fusion rifle. It's got some unique perks or perk combos. Erentil is still better though." And so people just keep using Erentil.
To back that up, their most recent attempt, Gallant Charge (I think that's the name?) is hot garbage. Same archetype as Erentil.
The raid is the last time I picked up a new weapon outside of pinnacles/ritual, aside from getting a pet Perfect Paradox roll. I never use it.
Yeeeep that's gonna be several nights a weekend right there.
Good times?
Maybe not.
I'm also still holding out hope that they make Trials a bit more approachable and forgiving of losses. Fuck the whole "mercy is for the weak" bullshit, I don't care about that, I care about things like disconnects/ddos and having human children who sometimes wake up, Crucible be damned. I always preferred I think Arteen's(?) idea of losses cancelling out some number of wins so that it may still be arduous and a marathon to hit 9/0, but at least your night isn't ruined when 6 games into the card something that isn't related to actually playing the game happens.
But who am I kidding they are copy/pasta from D1 because that's what people have been clamoring for.
Back in Y1, I wish I'd tried a built with skullfort, striker, and flashbangs in PvP. Flashbangs bring them within shoulder charge lethal, the disorient makes closing safer, and then the skullfort gets me closer to my next flashbang.
Shoulder Charge wasn't lethal in Y1, it only took off shields
Yeah, shoulder charge was a pile of hot garbage in PvP. Because what would happen is you'd charge them and then before you could shoot your weapon to finish them off, they'd kill you. Like ... every time.
Yeeeep that's gonna be several nights a weekend right there.
Good times?
Maybe not.
I'm also still holding out hope that they make Trials a bit more approachable and forgiving of losses. Fuck the whole "mercy is for the weak" bullshit, I don't care about that, I care about things like disconnects/ddos and having human children who sometimes wake up, Crucible be damned. I always preferred I think Arteen's(?) idea of losses cancelling out some number of wins so that it may still be arduous and a marathon to hit 9/0, but at least your night isn't ruined when 6 games into the card something that isn't related to actually playing the game happens.
But who am I kidding they are copy/pasta from D1 because that's what people have been clamoring for.
I've been playing some Legends of Runeterra recently (basically LoL Heathstone) and they've got a draft format where you are trying to get to 7 wins that has a system that kept making me think "Maybe this wouldn't be terrible for trials". Basically you aren't done till you lose 2 in a row. Except for your 7th and final win where it's all or nothing.
If you wanted to make it a bit less forgiving you could do like 2 wins needed to cancel out a loss.
Yeeeep that's gonna be several nights a weekend right there.
Good times?
Maybe not.
I'm also still holding out hope that they make Trials a bit more approachable and forgiving of losses. Fuck the whole "mercy is for the weak" bullshit, I don't care about that, I care about things like disconnects/ddos and having human children who sometimes wake up, Crucible be damned. I always preferred I think Arteen's(?) idea of losses cancelling out some number of wins so that it may still be arduous and a marathon to hit 9/0, but at least your night isn't ruined when 6 games into the card something that isn't related to actually playing the game happens.
But who am I kidding they are copy/pasta from D1 because that's what people have been clamoring for.
they have that for Survival now, a loss takes 2 wins off your streak rather than resetting it to 0. still makes getting to 5 a challenge but has some forgiveness baked in.
Well. Their light locking weapons solution ought to fix FOMO alright.
Invalidating all the godrolls I spent weeks to months grinding for, or invested painful crucible hours in learning to use well. That makes me no longer fear missing out on new content.
Because I’m entirely discouraged from ever bothering to grind new rolls, whether it’s content that’s time limited or not.
Why invest the time when they don’t respect it? When it’ll be useless outside of patrol in a season or two?
Can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot every time they do something good. Trials might be great but I don’t know if I’ll b out her now
Except the problem is that there is no reason to get new rolls when you already have something just as good you got a year and a half ago. Why invest the time in getting new weapons when you already have ones that do the job?
They aren't wrong with the Magic comparison. Or the MMO comparison. There's a reason they rotate things out of play.
Give us new perks, new archetypes, new combinations of perks. Martyr’s this season was exciting and new because it was the first wave frame GL. We got new primaries that can run demolitionist and rampage. Vorpal is an awesome new perk, osmosis too with the right gun.
With how hard it is to get the roll you want, with how much of a grind it can be...I have dropped over 50K fractaline and still don’t have a line in the sand I’m happy with. I got a decent bygones that I like for pvp, finally, last season. That’s over a year after Forsaken dropped. Imagine getting a gun you’ve been chased finally and the damned thing is literally useless after a mere few weeks or a month or even immediately.
People have been complaining non-stop since armor 2.0 came out about the layers of rng upon rng making it impossible to get a set they’re happy with, and now you want to make me redo my entire vault of weapons too? Get outta here!
If they can’t find a way to make new weapons exciting or interesting, I shouldn’t be punished for the time I’ve invested in their game. Planned obsolescence sucks. If I have a perfectly good phone I don’t need a new iPhone but if they make the new one cool and flashy somehow I’ll go and buy it. Don’t brick my old phone to incentivise me
I don’t play magic but the idea of making hundreds of dollars of stuff I’ve bought useless without a decent reason makes it seem like a dumpster fire of a hobby. And as for MMO’s...there’s a reason D2 is the only one I play.
They are already doing all those things and it's inadequate to the task. Inventories are bursting and people are getting loaded down with a bunch of new weapons that just aren't different enough from old weapons to be a meaningfully prize for players to go after. And my personal experience with player engagement this season among the PC folks and the people here in this thread, and I'm betting Bungie's extensive data on this stuff, bears out the idea that this is an issue.
It's also an issue from a design perspective since there's only so much you can bloat the system out sideways before it becomes a bunch of interesting but not actually useful filler. You can skirt this issue a bit with meta-changes (eg - if you nerf handcannons and buff sidearms, everyone now has an incentive to farm sidearms, which they weren't doing before) but this can only do so much before you are circling back around to the same stuff and is just more balance work.
And it's really not that hard to get a good roll. The fractaline donation system we're on right now is the easiest loot has ever been to get. The only actual limit on how many rolls you can get is how much time you are willing to stand around in the tower clicking buttons. So it's not like loot suddenly being transient is a huge problem on that account. The game has only been getting more generous with loot for awhile now.
In the end, you need some incentive for players to keep playing and keeping wanting to get new things. And it's basically eventually impossible to do that if nothing ever leaves the game. This kind of thing has been a long time coming and the longer they want to keep D2 going rather then replacing it with D3, the more it or something like it becomes necessary. The transience of everything is just a part of games that aren't strict finite experiences. Metas change, events and activities and such come and go and change all the time.
PS - The problem with Armour 2.0 is it's too much rng. The weapon system is not near as bad on this account, which is why it doesn't get the same level or style of complaints even though it's been around a full year longer. It's really not the same issue at all as it being hard to add meaningful new weapon options that players want to farm.
If Bungie can’t spend a few bucks to add more server storage for inventory space with all the income they’re getting off the influx of new light players buying season passes and the 200-300% increase in Eververse dust prices driving silver purchases then what the hell are they spending their money on if not funneling it back into the game? Like Smith get a new Ferrari?
Additionally: as a player and consumer that has paid cash money, not a developer, my sympathy for Bungie’s development challenges goes so far as it takes them to start devaluing the time and money I’ve invested into the game. It’s hard making new guns? Cool. It’s their job. If I told clients in my job that I was going to devalue their last investment to make them more inclined to spend more time or money with me again they’d not come back.
I literally just gave you my own experiences in how hard it can be to get a good roll; which you kindly ignored to make your own point? Yes fractaline makes it easier. But do you think they’re going to make it this easy every time? Hardly. We’re going to be regrinding for the slim chance at a roll we like and if we’re lucky enough to get our perfect roll, it could be 3/4 of the way through the life of the weapon. Enjoy your reward for 200 runs of a nightfall; 3 months to use a gun.
Some of us aren’t no lifers and streamers and are still working on getting the things we want. Mtashed and Kackis whines about wanting it on fireteam chat and a month later Bungie is ready to give the streamers what they want.
Hey everyone: we hear you’re not enjoying the temporary nature of activities and we’re listening, so your guns are temporary too. Spin it and rationalise however you like but at the end of the day that’s what it is; utter contempt for the time we’ve invested into the game. Good luck convincing me to ever buy another ornament for a weapon if it’s useless in a season, too.
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
They can bring guns and armor back later but maybe tweak it, change what it can roll with, and you can compare how a Y1 Old Fashioned compares to the Y3 version (answer, I like the random rolls more, but I'd take a version with Luck in the Chamber... Just saying bungo). Your guns aren't going anywhere, you just can't take the same Erentil you've had for a year now into Trials and run a train on people... And we still don't know the timeline for retiring things. 9-15 months is a long ass time for guns to remain relevant in endgame content. Emphasis here being on endgame, so Trials/IB/Raids and probably Nightfalls and Dungeons.
The important thing is they are not taking it away completely, just phase it out in a soft manner. I've had a freaking year to use my Erentil, and it's existence alone is what got me Unbroken. I'm rapidly approaching 5,000 kills on it. And I don't want them to nerf just that gun or that whole archetype to adjust things. Introduce some new ones, and then maybe later on give me Erentil 2.0 in Y5 or whatever, maybe this time without crazy range but some other possible fun rolls. You've had time to use everything in your bank, and no matter how long you plan on telling yourself you need 9 different rolls on Mindbenders or whatever in case it becomes a godroll some update, you could have been using this stuff for the last two years of Destiny! And the stuff you just got isn't going away anytime soon. We laugh/cringe when we see a screenshot of an Erentil with 100k+ kills, but it's a problem we can fix.
I'm also someone who has limited time to play games. I'm constantly battling work/life balance and I still have so many god damned guns in Destiny I could break down one gun every day for the next year and still have a ton of OP shit in my vault. Destiny is undergoing a lot of growing pains since they can't afford a D3 engine. Eventually this is gonna mean content is gonna have to rotate out, and that means the guns you get from them won't be obtainable anymore. Is it then fair to have guns lying around that outclass anything new coming in the pipeline for the sake of balance? Is it okay that people starting in Season of the Worthy have to go against people with 100k+ on their Not Forgottens, Mindbenders, Bygones, etc? I've heard the Raid pulse is good, I have 5 decent to good rolls, never once used a single one because Bygones exists so why bother.
The cash you're talking about spending is at most 10 bucks for every three months and then some cosmetics. And the only person you can be mad about for buying cosmetics is yourself.
Another thing the collections could fix. If they bring back Bygones Y5 or whatever, you should be able to pull a Y5 with the same roll you favorited or whatever in the collection. That makes sense to me, and something they should look at.
So Luke Smith has tweeted that Artifact Power will be disabled in Trials + Iron Banner until they can implement a "power cap"/revise the power structure.
And the TWAB has some Subclass previews, which reveals that Arc Subclasses rule and everyone else drools. (Also Contraverse Holds and HHSN are getting nerfed.)
I was about to write a very annoyed post about the changes to HHSN, but I held off after reading the dev comments. I’ll just say that maybe it will still be effective, but for fucks sake, another self-damaging ability on a warlock subclass, really?
Also, lol at how deeply buried in the code warlock melee speed must be if they are giving extra range instead of fixing the speed. I don’t buy the lore/variety excuse at all.
Well those with a positive view of the changes, we’ll just agree to disagree because you’ll never convince me that blatant contempt for my time investment is a good thing.
Catalase on
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
As for the Warlock’s Handheld Supernova, we’ve made a number of changes to bring this ability in line with the other one-shot abilities. While part of HHSN’s strength lies in its pairing with the Contraverse Hold Exotic gauntlets (which are also being tuned this Season), our data indicated that even without Contraverse Hold, Handheld Supernova needed to be adjusted. Here are the changes:
-Increased activation time by 0.6 seconds
-Reduced hold time from 3.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds
-Reduced range by 20%
-Tightened horizontal spread of bolts by 25%
-Bolt explosion now does self-damage
-Reduced bolt explosion radius from 3m to 2.5m
In our playtesting, we’ve found that the product of these changes is an ability that is still incredibly strong but now has a risk/reward ratio commensurate with its power. (After all, this thing can vaporize multiple PvP opponents instantly.) There’s even a bit of silver lining here —the tightening of the bolts leads to more concentrated damage at range, improving its viability against Supers. To compensate for this change, other elements of the middle Voidwalker path are being buffed, including the Nova Warp Super, which now has increased damage resistance, a longer duration, and a reduced blink cost.
So the range is going from ~17m to ~13m, with much less horizontal spread and AOE, while also taking longer to charge, less time to fire it off, and if the enemy tries to hug you, you probably die too. But if you do manage to hit them inside of 13m, it’s more likely they’ll die. Also, contraverse holds are getting changed too, but that’s part of next weeks update.
At least they are compensating with the nova warp super changes. Rolling back the duration and blink energy use will be super helpful, as will the additional DR.
I personally feel the entire problem with HHSN rested nearly entirely with contraverse making it too tanky, but apparently the data says otherwise.
The HHSN changes hurt, but I'm more worried about this:
For the Hunter’s Weighted Knife, we’ve reduced its tracking significantly and created new tracking tech that will make the knife more faithful to its initial throw trajectory.
A Titan’s barricade is incredibly powerful in Trials because you can use it to safely resurrect your fallen teammates. Next Season, we’re creating counters to the barricade while also raising its health from 500hp to 600hp. Barricades will now take extra damage from Special-ammo weapons, anti-barrier weapons, and certain Heavy weapons. This change makes barricades sturdier while giving opposing players the option to use their Special ammo to bring down the barricade more quickly.
The following weapons now do 30% extra damage to Barricades:
Sniper Rifles
Grenade Launchers
Linear Fusion Rifles
Machine Guns
Trace Rifles
Anti-Barrier Weapons
The following weapons now do 60% extra damage to Barricades:
Shotguns
Fusion Rifles
You’ll see yellow damage numbers when hitting a barricade with a counter weapon, which always feels good.
I don’t think the extra hp is going to be enough to offset the extra damage from non-primaries. Seem like a straight up nerf to me.
Definitely something titans needed, especially after the buffs to the cooldown by stacking the most useful of the 3 stats /s
As for the Warlock’s Handheld Supernova, we’ve made a number of changes to bring this ability in line with the other one-shot abilities. While part of HHSN’s strength lies in its pairing with the Contraverse Hold Exotic gauntlets (which are also being tuned this Season), our data indicated that even without Contraverse Hold, Handheld Supernova needed to be adjusted. Here are the changes:
-Increased activation time by 0.6 seconds
-Reduced hold time from 3.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds
-Reduced range by 20%
-Tightened horizontal spread of bolts by 25%
-Bolt explosion now does self-damage
-Reduced bolt explosion radius from 3m to 2.5m
In our playtesting, we’ve found that the product of these changes is an ability that is still incredibly strong but now has a risk/reward ratio commensurate with its power. (After all, this thing can vaporize multiple PvP opponents instantly.) There’s even a bit of silver lining here —the tightening of the bolts leads to more concentrated damage at range, improving its viability against Supers. To compensate for this change, other elements of the middle Voidwalker path are being buffed, including the Nova Warp Super, which now has increased damage resistance, a longer duration, and a reduced blink cost.
So the range is going from ~17m to ~13m, with much less horizontal spread and AOE, while also taking longer to charge, less time to fire it off, and if the enemy tries to hug you, you probably die too. But if you do manage to hit them inside of 13m, it’s more likely they’ll die. Also, contraverse holds are getting changed too, but that’s part of next weeks update.
At least they are compensating with the nova warp super changes. Rolling back the duration and blink energy use will be super helpful, as will the additional DR.
I personally feel the entire problem with HHSN rested nearly entirely with contraverse making it too tanky, but apparently the data says otherwise.
The problem with Nova Warp super catalyzed for me when I used it and came around the corner to a Hunter. He was able to cast void knives and stab me to death in one hit before I could accomplish a SINGLE charge + attack.
They need to either drop the speed debuff or the energy drain from holding a charge while in warp. I have no idea why they though it would be okay to make a super that already moves at walking speed go even slower just to get a few more meters of range.
Alternatively, get rid of the charge mechanic entirely. Make the default blast hit an extra 1-1.5m, slightly higher energy use, and call it a day.
"We've relyed on our data to review these changes. As such, after reviewing the overwhelming success of all things Hunter due to their insane kit, and their having a class with a one hit ranged melee ability that recharges without an exotic, we've decided to nerf Titan Barricades and Shoulder Charge (which has had issuss since Shadowkeep). Also because we want some classes to get more use than they currently do, we will continue to ignore hit registration issues on Sentinel and instead buff....uhhhhhh, middle tree Striker."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhht.
(Yes I know.the Weighted Knife and HHSN changes, but fucking still dudes)
Well. Their light locking weapons solution ought to fix FOMO alright.
Invalidating all the godrolls I spent weeks to months grinding for, or invested painful crucible hours in learning to use well. That makes me no longer fear missing out on new content.
Because I’m entirely discouraged from ever bothering to grind new rolls, whether it’s content that’s time limited or not.
Why invest the time when they don’t respect it? When it’ll be useless outside of patrol in a season or two?
Can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot every time they do something good. Trials might be great but I don’t know if I’ll b out her now
Except the problem is that there is no reason to get new rolls when you already have something just as good you got a year and a half ago. Why invest the time in getting new weapons when you already have ones that do the job?
They aren't wrong with the Magic comparison. Or the MMO comparison. There's a reason they rotate things out of play.
Give us new perks, new archetypes, new combinations of perks. Martyr’s this season was exciting and new because it was the first wave frame GL. We got new primaries that can run demolitionist and rampage. Vorpal is an awesome new perk, osmosis too with the right gun.
With how hard it is to get the roll you want, with how much of a grind it can be...I have dropped over 50K fractaline and still don’t have a line in the sand I’m happy with. I got a decent bygones that I like for pvp, finally, last season. That’s over a year after Forsaken dropped. Imagine getting a gun you’ve been chased finally and the damned thing is literally useless after a mere few weeks or a month or even immediately.
People have been complaining non-stop since armor 2.0 came out about the layers of rng upon rng making it impossible to get a set they’re happy with, and now you want to make me redo my entire vault of weapons too? Get outta here!
If they can’t find a way to make new weapons exciting or interesting, I shouldn’t be punished for the time I’ve invested in their game. Planned obsolescence sucks. If I have a perfectly good phone I don’t need a new iPhone but if they make the new one cool and flashy somehow I’ll go and buy it. Don’t brick my old phone to incentivise me
I don’t play magic but the idea of making hundreds of dollars of stuff I’ve bought useless without a decent reason makes it seem like a dumpster fire of a hobby. And as for MMO’s...there’s a reason D2 is the only one I play.
They are already doing all those things and it's inadequate to the task. Inventories are bursting and people are getting loaded down with a bunch of new weapons that just aren't different enough from old weapons to be a meaningfully prize for players to go after. And my personal experience with player engagement this season among the PC folks and the people here in this thread, and I'm betting Bungie's extensive data on this stuff, bears out the idea that this is an issue.
It's also an issue from a design perspective since there's only so much you can bloat the system out sideways before it becomes a bunch of interesting but not actually useful filler. You can skirt this issue a bit with meta-changes (eg - if you nerf handcannons and buff sidearms, everyone now has an incentive to farm sidearms, which they weren't doing before) but this can only do so much before you are circling back around to the same stuff and is just more balance work.
And it's really not that hard to get a good roll. The fractaline donation system we're on right now is the easiest loot has ever been to get. The only actual limit on how many rolls you can get is how much time you are willing to stand around in the tower clicking buttons. So it's not like loot suddenly being transient is a huge problem on that account. The game has only been getting more generous with loot for awhile now.
In the end, you need some incentive for players to keep playing and keeping wanting to get new things. And it's basically eventually impossible to do that if nothing ever leaves the game. This kind of thing has been a long time coming and the longer they want to keep D2 going rather then replacing it with D3, the more it or something like it becomes necessary. The transience of everything is just a part of games that aren't strict finite experiences. Metas change, events and activities and such come and go and change all the time.
PS - The problem with Armour 2.0 is it's too much rng. The weapon system is not near as bad on this account, which is why it doesn't get the same level or style of complaints even though it's been around a full year longer. It's really not the same issue at all as it being hard to add meaningful new weapon options that players want to farm.
If Bungie can’t spend a few bucks to add more server storage for inventory space with all the income they’re getting off the influx of new light players buying season passes and the 200-300% increase in Eververse dust prices driving silver purchases then what the hell are they spending their money on if not funneling it back into the game? Like Smith get a new Ferrari?
Additionally: as a player and consumer that has paid cash money, not a developer, my sympathy for Bungie’s development challenges goes so far as it takes them to start devaluing the time and money I’ve invested into the game. It’s hard making new guns? Cool. It’s their job. If I told clients in my job that I was going to devalue their last investment to make them more inclined to spend more time or money with me again they’d not come back.
I literally just gave you my own experiences in how hard it can be to get a good roll; which you kindly ignored to make your own point? Yes fractaline makes it easier. But do you think they’re going to make it this easy every time? Hardly. We’re going to be regrinding for the slim chance at a roll we like and if we’re lucky enough to get our perfect roll, it could be 3/4 of the way through the life of the weapon. Enjoy your reward for 200 runs of a nightfall; 3 months to use a gun.
Some of us aren’t no lifers and streamers and are still working on getting the things we want. Mtashed and Kackis whines about wanting it on fireteam chat and a month later Bungie is ready to give the streamers what they want.
Hey everyone: we hear you’re not enjoying the temporary nature of activities and we’re listening, so your guns are temporary too. Spin it and rationalise however you like but at the end of the day that’s what it is; utter contempt for the time we’ve invested into the game. Good luck convincing me to ever buy another ornament for a weapon if it’s useless in a season, too.
It's not contempt of any sort. It's a very basic design problem that has been pointed out by lots of people for awhile now and which other games have had to deal with (or have managed to avoid via basically doing what Bungie is doing but as part of other larger regular changes to the game).
The basic fact is that the game cannot just keep giving us more things that are both desirable but not more powerful then what came before. If you are avoiding powercreep in the end you end up with what we have now: mostly a bunch of new weapons that aren't meaningfully different enough or useful enough to be very desirable. It's just not giving players a reason to go out and get new stuff.
It's a game. They are trying to craft an experience that makes you want to play and then reward you with something meaningful for doing. They aren't doing any of this because they hate the players, they are doing it because they want the players to have something they want to get a hold of and then are happy when they do. They need to create meaningful rewards for the players. Because getting those rewards is fun. But the continuing bloat of possible weapons makes each new one less meaningful if you are trying to avoid powercreep.
It's strange to act like they are doing this for any reason but the very obvious one that it's good for the game for rewards to be meaningful and desirable.
And I think it's pretty obvious that they are very much interested in making it easy to get stuff. The Menagerie was the most generous activity we'd seen yet. In part by design, in part by accident. And I think the pattern probably goes back even further, with The Menagerie likely being designed based on feedback from Black Armory, which itself was trying to make it easier for players to grind for specific things. Vex Offensive, for all it's problems, was not at all stingy with the loots. And Sundial, the first activity we've seen that was directly influenced by the feedback from the Menagerie, is basically "what if we did Menagerie again, but we did the bug on purpose". And then they ended the season fucking firehosing us with drops like they are trying to delouse the playerbase with a slurry made of guns. There has so far been a pretty clear pattern here that Bungie wants the players to be able to easily grind out roles for specific things. None of this is accidental.
Anyone want to do a legendary sundial this weekend?
Other then that I need to get my stupid lanterns level up, I'm only level 12 so I might not be able to make it which is a bummer since I really want that damn season of dawn pin
Nobody needs to be fired. I still think it’s insane they didn’t realize how poorly received it would be. But they fixed it before release so I can stop throwing a tantrum
I'm curious if it's just artifact power that is disabled but LL is still enabled so like, you still have to be max light with gear level, or if it'll play just like regular Elim does now
Re: Titan Barricades, I think they prob are or were effective in Trials testing for a variety of reasons. The problem is I don't think anyone found them in need of changing in general crucible. I get what they want, is for us to burn special rounds to take them down fast... But one Erentil shot and a light peppering of anything else would break a shield. I'm constantly vooping Titans through the shield. If anything, it could go to 600 hp. Instead of a ×2 dmg buff with special, at most it should be ×1.5 really.
I can imagine scenarios with a team of three bubble Titans also stacking towering barricades to create a concentrated wall of Fuck You, and turtling on the tie breaker capture point.
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KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
On the subject of guns from a sort-of neophyte's perspective: I have around 160 guns in my vault. I've used about 20 of those guns total in any great amount. About 5 of those were exotics just to get the catalyst finished because why not.
I have very little reason to take out every gun I have and try each one out. The few times I've tried that, I've ended up finding most of the guns as incredibly similar, so it comes down to that "one" stat or combination of perks that make that gun worth more than anything else. I've got around 20 different versions of each gun type (Hand Cannon, Scout Rifle, etc), and I don't know what I'm meant to do with them all. I think maybe the original intent was to encourage you to try out all the guns, but when I'm using firearms that just simply have overall better stats than most of the others in its weapon class . . . what's the point?
So I can see why they want to shake it up. If this game is about looting and shooting, and my loadout has been the same for about 200 out of the 300 hours I've spent in this game, then encouraging playing around with the loot more should be a good thing, or so I'd be encouraged to believe.
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Having double barricaded a res in Elim I can definitely see why they'd feel like they could be a problem in Trials. Even with the changes they'll still be super clutch, res sniping was a huge part of Trials and a well placed barricade will screw that up.
Rift is still a shit ability, outside of extremely niche builds. What I wouldn't give for a either a casting speed increase, or an instant chunk of health back on cast.
I'm not looking forward to seeing how they're going to murder my baby, top tree stormcaller. Maybe they just won't fix the arc web bugs.
I get barricade is good in elim but for everything it’s good for in elim wasn’t it as good and more in countdown? Like you can res with it but also disarm? And it wasn’t that big of a deal...
Rift is still a shit ability, outside of extremely niche builds. What I wouldn't give for a either a casting speed increase, or an instant chunk of health back on cast.
This is why Arc/Void Battery mods made sense to me. Except they apparently forgot Hunter dodge existed while designing them and, whoops, guess what they are much much better for.
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To back that up, their most recent attempt, Gallant Charge (I think that's the name?) is hot garbage. Same archetype as Erentil.
The raid is the last time I picked up a new weapon outside of pinnacles/ritual, aside from getting a pet Perfect Paradox roll. I never use it.
edit: added quote because totp context is fun
Good times?
Maybe not.
I'm also still holding out hope that they make Trials a bit more approachable and forgiving of losses. Fuck the whole "mercy is for the weak" bullshit, I don't care about that, I care about things like disconnects/ddos and having human children who sometimes wake up, Crucible be damned. I always preferred I think Arteen's(?) idea of losses cancelling out some number of wins so that it may still be arduous and a marathon to hit 9/0, but at least your night isn't ruined when 6 games into the card something that isn't related to actually playing the game happens.
But who am I kidding they are copy/pasta from D1 because that's what people have been clamoring for.
Yeah, shoulder charge was a pile of hot garbage in PvP. Because what would happen is you'd charge them and then before you could shoot your weapon to finish them off, they'd kill you. Like ... every time.
I've been playing some Legends of Runeterra recently (basically LoL Heathstone) and they've got a draft format where you are trying to get to 7 wins that has a system that kept making me think "Maybe this wouldn't be terrible for trials". Basically you aren't done till you lose 2 in a row. Except for your 7th and final win where it's all or nothing.
If you wanted to make it a bit less forgiving you could do like 2 wins needed to cancel out a loss.
they have that for Survival now, a loss takes 2 wins off your streak rather than resetting it to 0. still makes getting to 5 a challenge but has some forgiveness baked in.
Additionally: as a player and consumer that has paid cash money, not a developer, my sympathy for Bungie’s development challenges goes so far as it takes them to start devaluing the time and money I’ve invested into the game. It’s hard making new guns? Cool. It’s their job. If I told clients in my job that I was going to devalue their last investment to make them more inclined to spend more time or money with me again they’d not come back.
I literally just gave you my own experiences in how hard it can be to get a good roll; which you kindly ignored to make your own point? Yes fractaline makes it easier. But do you think they’re going to make it this easy every time? Hardly. We’re going to be regrinding for the slim chance at a roll we like and if we’re lucky enough to get our perfect roll, it could be 3/4 of the way through the life of the weapon. Enjoy your reward for 200 runs of a nightfall; 3 months to use a gun.
Some of us aren’t no lifers and streamers and are still working on getting the things we want. Mtashed and Kackis whines about wanting it on fireteam chat and a month later Bungie is ready to give the streamers what they want.
Hey everyone: we hear you’re not enjoying the temporary nature of activities and we’re listening, so your guns are temporary too. Spin it and rationalise however you like but at the end of the day that’s what it is; utter contempt for the time we’ve invested into the game. Good luck convincing me to ever buy another ornament for a weapon if it’s useless in a season, too.
The important thing is they are not taking it away completely, just phase it out in a soft manner. I've had a freaking year to use my Erentil, and it's existence alone is what got me Unbroken. I'm rapidly approaching 5,000 kills on it. And I don't want them to nerf just that gun or that whole archetype to adjust things. Introduce some new ones, and then maybe later on give me Erentil 2.0 in Y5 or whatever, maybe this time without crazy range but some other possible fun rolls. You've had time to use everything in your bank, and no matter how long you plan on telling yourself you need 9 different rolls on Mindbenders or whatever in case it becomes a godroll some update, you could have been using this stuff for the last two years of Destiny! And the stuff you just got isn't going away anytime soon. We laugh/cringe when we see a screenshot of an Erentil with 100k+ kills, but it's a problem we can fix.
I'm also someone who has limited time to play games. I'm constantly battling work/life balance and I still have so many god damned guns in Destiny I could break down one gun every day for the next year and still have a ton of OP shit in my vault. Destiny is undergoing a lot of growing pains since they can't afford a D3 engine. Eventually this is gonna mean content is gonna have to rotate out, and that means the guns you get from them won't be obtainable anymore. Is it then fair to have guns lying around that outclass anything new coming in the pipeline for the sake of balance? Is it okay that people starting in Season of the Worthy have to go against people with 100k+ on their Not Forgottens, Mindbenders, Bygones, etc? I've heard the Raid pulse is good, I have 5 decent to good rolls, never once used a single one because Bygones exists so why bother.
The cash you're talking about spending is at most 10 bucks for every three months and then some cosmetics. And the only person you can be mad about for buying cosmetics is yourself.
I'm not confident a Y1 Grenade + a Y1 shoulder Charge actually would kill someone
And the TWAB has some Subclass previews, which reveals that Arc Subclasses rule and everyone else drools. (Also Contraverse Holds and HHSN are getting nerfed.)
Also, lol at how deeply buried in the code warlock melee speed must be if they are giving extra range instead of fixing the speed. I don’t buy the lore/variety excuse at all.
So the range is going from ~17m to ~13m, with much less horizontal spread and AOE, while also taking longer to charge, less time to fire it off, and if the enemy tries to hug you, you probably die too. But if you do manage to hit them inside of 13m, it’s more likely they’ll die. Also, contraverse holds are getting changed too, but that’s part of next weeks update.
At least they are compensating with the nova warp super changes. Rolling back the duration and blink energy use will be super helpful, as will the additional DR.
I personally feel the entire problem with HHSN rested nearly entirely with contraverse making it too tanky, but apparently the data says otherwise.
Guess I'm never using that tree again.
I don’t think the extra hp is going to be enough to offset the extra damage from non-primaries. Seem like a straight up nerf to me.
Definitely something titans needed, especially after the buffs to the cooldown by stacking the most useful of the 3 stats /s
The problem with Nova Warp super catalyzed for me when I used it and came around the corner to a Hunter. He was able to cast void knives and stab me to death in one hit before I could accomplish a SINGLE charge + attack.
Alternatively, get rid of the charge mechanic entirely. Make the default blast hit an extra 1-1.5m, slightly higher energy use, and call it a day.
Oh for fucks sake.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhht.
(Yes I know.the Weighted Knife and HHSN changes, but fucking still dudes)
It's not contempt of any sort. It's a very basic design problem that has been pointed out by lots of people for awhile now and which other games have had to deal with (or have managed to avoid via basically doing what Bungie is doing but as part of other larger regular changes to the game).
The basic fact is that the game cannot just keep giving us more things that are both desirable but not more powerful then what came before. If you are avoiding powercreep in the end you end up with what we have now: mostly a bunch of new weapons that aren't meaningfully different enough or useful enough to be very desirable. It's just not giving players a reason to go out and get new stuff.
It's a game. They are trying to craft an experience that makes you want to play and then reward you with something meaningful for doing. They aren't doing any of this because they hate the players, they are doing it because they want the players to have something they want to get a hold of and then are happy when they do. They need to create meaningful rewards for the players. Because getting those rewards is fun. But the continuing bloat of possible weapons makes each new one less meaningful if you are trying to avoid powercreep.
It's strange to act like they are doing this for any reason but the very obvious one that it's good for the game for rewards to be meaningful and desirable.
And I think it's pretty obvious that they are very much interested in making it easy to get stuff. The Menagerie was the most generous activity we'd seen yet. In part by design, in part by accident. And I think the pattern probably goes back even further, with The Menagerie likely being designed based on feedback from Black Armory, which itself was trying to make it easier for players to grind for specific things. Vex Offensive, for all it's problems, was not at all stingy with the loots. And Sundial, the first activity we've seen that was directly influenced by the feedback from the Menagerie, is basically "what if we did Menagerie again, but we did the bug on purpose". And then they ended the season fucking firehosing us with drops like they are trying to delouse the playerbase with a slurry made of guns. There has so far been a pretty clear pattern here that Bungie wants the players to be able to easily grind out roles for specific things. None of this is accidental.
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Other then that I need to get my stupid lanterns level up, I'm only level 12 so I might not be able to make it which is a bummer since I really want that damn season of dawn pin
Nobody needs to be fired. I still think it’s insane they didn’t realize how poorly received it would be. But they fixed it before release so I can stop throwing a tantrum
I’m ok with either way. I’d prefer if it was ll off but ll on tricks my friends to doing things like raids and other Pve stuff with me
I can imagine scenarios with a team of three bubble Titans also stacking towering barricades to create a concentrated wall of Fuck You, and turtling on the tie breaker capture point.
I have very little reason to take out every gun I have and try each one out. The few times I've tried that, I've ended up finding most of the guns as incredibly similar, so it comes down to that "one" stat or combination of perks that make that gun worth more than anything else. I've got around 20 different versions of each gun type (Hand Cannon, Scout Rifle, etc), and I don't know what I'm meant to do with them all. I think maybe the original intent was to encourage you to try out all the guns, but when I'm using firearms that just simply have overall better stats than most of the others in its weapon class . . . what's the point?
So I can see why they want to shake it up. If this game is about looting and shooting, and my loadout has been the same for about 200 out of the 300 hours I've spent in this game, then encouraging playing around with the loot more should be a good thing, or so I'd be encouraged to believe.
I'm not looking forward to seeing how they're going to murder my baby, top tree stormcaller. Maybe they just won't fix the arc web bugs.
This is why Arc/Void Battery mods made sense to me. Except they apparently forgot Hunter dodge existed while designing them and, whoops, guess what they are much much better for.