[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Let’s Do The Lockdown Again

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited October 26
    altid wrote: »
    Speculation is johnonson is waiting to see which way the US election goes. He wants a trump win so he can plough on with a no-deal (sorry, 'Australia style' deal) whereas Biden and his team would not provide an easy trade deal. There's the obvious problem of the Good Friday Agreement and also the general impression that brexit, johnson and trump are all parts of the same right wing populist nonsense. They also haven't forgotten johnson's "part-Kenyan president" comments from 2016 apprently. The guardian has a pretty good rundown from various sources:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/24/johnson-will-wait-for-us-election-result-before-no-deal-brexit-decision
    What makes them think that even a Trump deal (which considering the source I'd consider to be worse than a no-deal) would make it through the House?

    edit: I was unclear, I meant the US House that's Dem-controlled and extremely pro-GFA, not the spine-lacking Commons.

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 26
    Johnson has pretty much excised any Tory with a brain or a spine, so if he came back with anything he'd probably have the votes for it. Chrlorinated chickens, cows on more steroids than Hulk Hogan, 20g of insect mandible per can of beans, whatever: paint it as a victory, claim anyone who doesn't like it is doing Britain down, move on.

    The Tories aren't going to say a deal they've negotiated is bad no matter what*. They can't. To do so would be to admit Brexit weakened the country, which they'd rather drive us all off a cliff than do.

    EDIT: As Japan points out, they sort of did just that to the withdrawal agreement.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Tories aren't going to say a deal they've negotiated is bad no matter what. They can't. To do so would be to admit Brexit weakened the country, which they'd rather drive us all off a cliff than do.

    They did exactly this with the withdrawal agreement though

    In a matter of weeks we went from Johnson being so pleased with himself that he summoned press photographers to snap him signing it, to it being an intolerable imposition that the country can't possibly abide by

    BogartmonikerJazz
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    It would not be a surprise that some kind of deal is made, BoJo immediately claims it to be the best deal ever struck in the history of mankind, and then as soon as real people see it it gets excoriated. So much so that BoJo turns around and claims that the UK was taken advantage of by all those double-dealing outsiders.

    Then he admits on TV that of course the UK is weak. Otherwise they wouldn't have agreed to a deal that started with the words 'Even though the UK government are morons, here goes...' because duh.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I guess, though they angled the unacceptability of that agreement as someone else's fault, somehow. The EU is being intractable and unfair, which is a terrible disappointment to us, so that means we have to break these teensy little laws a tad. All totally normal.

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Johnson has pretty much excised any Tory with a brain or a spine, so if he came back with anything he'd probably have the votes for it. Chrlorinated chickens, cows on more steroids than Hulk Hogan, 20g of insect mandible per can of beans, whatever: paint it as a victory, claim anyone who doesn't like it is doing Britain down, move on.

    The Tories aren't going to say a deal they've negotiated is bad no matter what. They can't. To do so would be to admit Brexit weakened the country, which they'd rather drive us all off a cliff than do.

    On he could push it through the House of Commons, but Johnson has absolutely no ability to sway the US House of Representatives.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Speculation is johnonson is waiting to see which way the US election goes. He wants a trump win so he can plough on with a no-deal (sorry, 'Australia style' deal) whereas Biden and his team would not provide an easy trade deal. There's the obvious problem of the Good Friday Agreement and also the general impression that brexit, johnson and trump are all parts of the same right wing populist nonsense. They also haven't forgotten johnson's "part-Kenyan president" comments from 2016 apprently. The guardian has a pretty good rundown from various sources:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/24/johnson-will-wait-for-us-election-result-before-no-deal-brexit-decision

    It's a stupid enough plan that it might be true. Even if Trump won, the House of Representatives would still, baring insane levels of electoral shenanigans, be held by the Democrats; and they've made it clear that any trade agreement is dependent on not breaking the Good Friday Accords. And thanks to the internal market even if any trade agreement included language protecting the GFA, there's no reason for the House to trust that it'd actually mean anything. Never mind that I can't think that any agreement with the USA hammered out in the next two months could come close to making up for the havoc that a no-deal with the EU would cause.

    BoJo hoping that Trump can save him seems on point for 2020 though.

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Surely Biden would negotiate in good faith, where Trump would make us accept chlorinated chicken that has been shat upon in exchange for sending them Heinz Ketchup?

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Biden has no reason to do Johnson any favours, and several reasons to press him hard. Putting the Good Friday Agreement in danger is something House Dems will not accept, for instance. Biden can grind Johnson between the desire for a trade agreement and his own weakness to grab a big win for himself.

    Biden has no reason not to press the same shitty products on us that Trump would want to. He's not going to turn down the opportunity to grow US markets.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Surely Biden would negotiate in good faith, where Trump would make us accept chlorinated chicken that has been shat upon in exchange for sending them Heinz Ketchup?

    Even negotiating in good faith, the things that are worth something to the US are, generally speaking, not those that can be agreed without some significant political cost in the UK

    Conversely it isn't obvious what the US could offer in terms of trade concessions that would be worth the price

    That's part of the concern around a US trade deal - it's difficult to conceive of a hypothetical trade deal with the US that delivers non-trivial benefits to the UK in the first place, and any trade deal with the US is going to mean at least sacrificing current standards to align with lower standards in a number of areas, and potentially giving up politically sensitive industry and public sector safeguards

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Biden has no reason to do Johnson any favours, and several reasons to press him hard. Putting the Good Friday Agreement in danger is something House Dems will not accept, for instance. Biden can grind Johnson between the desire for a trade agreement and his own weakness to grab a big win for himself.

    Biden has no reason not to press the same shitty products on us that Trump would want to. He's not going to turn down the opportunity to grow US markets.

    Biden has also put out statements in very strong support of the GFA in all of this, so that'd increase the pressure on Boris on that front. Not that I know what that would actually result in since the government's position has varied from breaking international law to create an internal border that might well break up the UK.

    Only upside to Biden on a trade deal for the UK is that he might not push for whatever NHS breaking items that Trump would.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • 101101 Registered User regular
    Isn't biden publicly against the Medicare for all idea in the US? I really wouldn't expect him to give a damn about NHS protections, particularly at the expense of us companies.

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    Isn't biden publicly against the Medicare for all idea in the US? I really wouldn't expect him to give a damn about NHS protections, particularly at the expense of us companies.

    He's not the most progressive guy out there, sure. It's more that Trump and his team would go into negotiations with busting open the NHS market as a major goal. Not just for the business opportunities there, they're the sort who would wreck the NHS just on principle. Biden... I'm not saying he'd have his team work to protect the NHS or anything, just that he probably wouldn't roll in demanding that the whole thing be shut down and sold off to Kaiser or whatever. Boris would probably off it up on a silver platter, but it's not quite as automatic.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    ElldrenShadowen
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Regardless of Bidens opinions on public healthcare at home there's no reason to believe he wouldn't put the interests of US business first.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    There are plenty of US trade negotiating objectives that would negatively impact the NHS without necessarily being directly anti-NHS

    Mandatory open commissioning and prohibiting reference pricing and collective purchasing for drugs are probably the two biggest

    Drug pricing is a massive deal for the US pharma industry, and the UK's purchasing approach makes the NHS one of the few major purchasers worldwide that can go toe to toe with the pharma companies

    The thing about it is that it's easy to spin doing away with collective purchasing as a good thing, because it's the thing that occasionally generates headlines when the NHS won't fund some wildly expensive and/or questionably effective treatments in particular cases

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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Apparently a group of conservative MPs intend to form some sort of group equivalent to the ERG, except for 'business interests during covid', essentially to act 'as a counterweight' (Telegraph's words) to SAGE etc.

    ...

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So presumably their job will be to decide how many lives each business is worth?

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  • Mr.WangtangMr.Wangtang Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    So presumably their job will be to decide how many lives each business donation to the party is worth?
    ftfy



  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 26
    A group representing Independent Donor Interests Or Tory Supporters would be a good counterbalance to SAGE.

    Tastyfish on
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  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    COCK PISS SAMBROOK

    (MP for Birmingham Northfield)

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    "Stop hating us for killing you"

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    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Keep digging that hole.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    That's honestly some of the politest graffiti I've seen, unless some of it's already been painted over.
    Can they prove that Gary Sambrook does not, in fact, eat big dinners?

    The way it's laid out, Scum might be the author's name and they're just signing their work, like Banksy.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Just some random wall?

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    You're missing the point. What the message says is irrelevant the point is Sambrook is letting you know that he and all our other much maligned right wing MPs are the real victims here not the starving children.

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    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    won't someone please think of the Tories and their feelings

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    He's also blaming it on the left, despite some of his own party rebelling against it.

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    klemming wrote: »
    That's honestly some of the politest graffiti I've seen, unless some of it's already been painted over.
    Can they prove that Gary Sambrook does not, in fact, eat big dinners?

    The way it's laid out, Scum might be the author's name and they're just signing their work, like Banksy.

    You have clearly not seen protests in Cambridge against upmarket housing developments
    _95456191_graffiti2.jpg

    Tastyfish on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Romanes Eunt Domus!

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Goddamn, at least Captain Planet villains had the decency to stay fictional.

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Suspect in a nasty robbery fled to Europe and was circulated on a European arrest warrant earlier this year.

    He's just been picked up by German police and is already being extradited back to us.

    Good job we're getting rid of it! Bloody foreigners arresting our criminals....

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Goddamn, at least Captain Planet villains had the decency to stay fictional.

    I'm pretty sure Captain Planet villains, unlike the Tories, would actually want to feed starving children.

    Alright, so that they could cause an obesity problem and then sell them some kind of training program, but they'd probably still feed them.

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Looks like Kier Starmer managed to hit a cyclist with his car. Seems to have been a minor accident but fuck I hope he isn't at fault.

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    Winky wrote: »
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Casual wrote: »
    Looks like Kier Starmer managed to hit a cyclist with his car. Seems to have been a minor accident but fuck I hope he isn't at fault.

    Maybe this will be what gets Jeremy Clarkson on to Labour's side.

    tynicPhoenix-DShadowenVishNubAimSkeith
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Looks like Kier Starmer managed to hit a cyclist with his car. Seems to have been a minor accident but fuck I hope he isn't at fault.

    And thus we have the front pages of the rags for the next 4 years or more.

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Gleefully mowing down cyclists is like the third favourite columnist fantasy of the right wing press. This could be an eight dimensional chess move to get them on side!

    Anyway I hope he wasn't at fault.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    The Department of International Trade, in a brilliant attempt at capturing the mood of the nation, put out this tweet:


    The bakers used a lot of soya sauce in the first challenge on #GBBO, so it's a good thing it will be made cheaper thanks to our trade deal with Japan 🇯🇵

    They have met with a couple of objections:

    [1] It's soy sauce, not soya sauce
    [2] Japanese soy sauce is already imported with a 0% tariff thanks to existing EU trade deals
    [3] Most of our soy sauce is made in the EU, so it's going to get more expensive


    Just in case people were thinking that things were going well in Westminster

    Rhesus Positive on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Channel migrants: Deaths should be 'a wake-up call' for those in power
    The deaths of two children and two adults after a migrant boat sank off the coast of northern France should serve as a "wake-up call" to those in power, charities have said.

    Fifteen others were taken to hospital but the French authorities believe at least one more could be lost at sea.
    Does anyone think this will be taken by those in power as anything but a sign that things are working correctly?
    Boris has said his thoughts were with the victims' loved ones. Not prayers though, so that's even less than usual.

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  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    The Department of International Trade, in a brilliant attempt at capturing the mood of the nation, put out this tweet:


    The bakers used a lot of soya sauce in the first challenge on #GBBO, so it's a good thing it will be made cheaper thanks to our trade deal with Japan 🇯🇵

    They have met with a couple of objections:

    [1] It's soy sauce, not soya sauce
    [2] Japanese soy sauce is already imported with a 0% tariff thanks to existing EU trade deals
    [3] Most of our soy sauce is made in the EU, so it's going to get more expensive


    Just in case people were thinking that things were going well in Westminster

    While the rest is true. Soya sauce is an acceptable British English spelling and pronunciation (that I happen to use)

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  • Red or AliveRed or Alive Registered User regular
    The same Twitter account is pointing out that, under WTO rules, the tariff on soy sauce is 6%.

    However, given that we are not currently trading under WTO terms (and hopefully will not be in 2021, despite the fervent wishes of people even more economically illiterate than I), they have failed to prove that soy sauce will be cheaper thanks to the trade deal with Japan.

    Would that there were consequences for a lie coming directly from a government body.

This discussion has been closed.