i dunno how i feel about statements like "video games are too long"
cuz like on one hand sure there are games that pack themselves with filler so that they can advertise having a thousand hours of content or whatever. But also like, sometimes it's fun to just sorta bathe in something for a couple months as you work your way through it.
of course there's merit to short, tight experiences, but i also feel like the bar constantly shifts around what's considered "too long." Like I remember when 100 hours was thought of as too long for anyone but hardcore JRPG players, and then 60 hours was a bit overstuffed, then 40, and then it hit a point of "i got kids when do you expect me to make time for a 20 hour game"
and like i'm not knockin' single-digit hour counts, there's some really fantastic games that can be wrapped up in an afternoon. I just don't really feel like any particular game-length is an inherent positive or negative, it's just sort of a neutral descriptor and you might have your own personal preferences one way or the other
i also kinda can't help but wonder if part of the reason that's such a prominent opinion among critics is that, y'know, critics have to play a ton of games back-to-back and long games put a lot of pressure on their workflow. Banging out a 40 hour game in a week on top of everything else going on in your life does sound pretty crummy, let alone doing it multiple times a year. but also nobody else has the pressure to finish games that quickly.
Nah, there’s a whole lot of AAA games that run into major pacing problems due to this feeling that they’ve gotta implement bland side quest content or fill out a giant open world map.
A whole lot of the issues in the industry are a result of ever expanding scope and scale, and they should seriously consider pulling back a bit.
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
i also kinda can't help but wonder if part of the reason that's such a prominent opinion among critics is that, y'know, critics have to play a ton of games back-to-back and long games put a lot of pressure on their workflow. Banging out a 40 hour game in a week on top of everything else going on in your life does sound pretty crummy, let alone doing it multiple times a year. but also nobody else has the pressure to finish games that quickly.
Streaming, youtube and a general increasing cultural emphasis on FOMO means that a larger number of people feel this preasure than they probably should in an ideal world
Nah, there’s a whole lot of AAA games that run into major pacing problems due to this feeling that they’ve gotta implement bland side quest content or fill out a giant open world map.
A whole lot of the issues in the industry are a result of ever expanding scope and scale, and they should seriously consider pulling back a bit.
that's why the side quests aren't required nor do you have to explore the entire map. it's just there to do if you like doing it
Nah, there’s a whole lot of AAA games that run into major pacing problems due to this feeling that they’ve gotta implement bland side quest content or fill out a giant open world map.
A whole lot of the issues in the industry are a result of ever expanding scope and scale, and they should seriously consider pulling back a bit.
Many folks would rather have the option of lots of side content to decide how much time they can spend working on that stuff or not.
I just don't see how the idea of getting rid of content people enjoy because someone else doesn't enjoy it really makes a lot of sense.
What's bland to you made an experience great to someone else. Why should they have to lose that to make something more enjoyable to you?
And if the design is actually just bad, well that's bad design. It's not the actual length that is the issue in that case. If an FPS has shitty shooting mechanics it doesn't mean that other games shouldn't have shooting or that they should remove the shooting to make the game better. It means the game is just kinda shitty.
i also kinda can't help but wonder if part of the reason that's such a prominent opinion among critics is that, y'know, critics have to play a ton of games back-to-back and long games put a lot of pressure on their workflow. Banging out a 40 hour game in a week on top of everything else going on in your life does sound pretty crummy, let alone doing it multiple times a year. but also nobody else has the pressure to finish games that quickly.
Streaming, youtube and a general increasing cultural emphasis on FOMO means that a larger number of people feel this preasure than they probably should in an ideal world
that's fair, but in that case i feel like blaming games for being too long is sort of misdiagnosing the problem?
Like if every game were short enough that everyone could keep up with the endless hype cycle it's not like that would make the endless hype cycle a good thing
I have played 1 run of Monster Train, finished Ori, and nothing else on here. And I'm not sure there's much on there I want to play. FF7R eventually probably. P5 Royal is tempting. I don't really know what Huntdown or Legends of Runeterra even are.
Personally I find the nigh unavoidable discourse around new and popular games often tends to influence my perception in a way that makes me enjoy them less, and/or makes it harder for me to sort through my feelings on them once I'm done. The longer a game is, the more likely this is to happen.
i also kinda can't help but wonder if part of the reason that's such a prominent opinion among critics is that, y'know, critics have to play a ton of games back-to-back and long games put a lot of pressure on their workflow. Banging out a 40 hour game in a week on top of everything else going on in your life does sound pretty crummy, let alone doing it multiple times a year. but also nobody else has the pressure to finish games that quickly.
Streaming, youtube and a general increasing cultural emphasis on FOMO means that a larger number of people feel this preasure than they probably should in an ideal world
that's fair, but in that case i feel like blaming games for being too long is sort of misdiagnosing the problem?
Like if every game were short enough that everyone could keep up with the endless hype cycle it's not like that would make the endless hype cycle a good thing
Games are too long and also it is a symptom of a deliberately crafted culture that is impossible to fix solely by shortening game length, yes
I like the content starting out but then it just keeps on coming and coming and coming an even when I try to mainline shit it is obvious they expect me to do a lot of side stuff
I like the content starting out but then it just keeps on coming and coming and coming an even when I try to mainline shit it is obvious they expect me to do a lot of side stuff
I know people like to shit on the ubi open world model, but sometimes just checking boxes while zoning out is very comfortable to me. I can do that in AC games
I know people like to shit on the ubi open world model, but sometimes just checking boxes while zoning out is very comfortable to me. I can do that in AC games
i very much appreciate the brain dead gameplay but Vegeta is right as well; it leads to crunch which is fucking awful.
The Batman Arkham series is a pretty good example of content bloat. Riddler trophies fun in the first game? Okay, expansion on that system in the second one. People liked that game too? Okay, 500 Riddler trophies in the next game! Just bigger is not better. The tank fights were not as good as the punchy fights, so having two different SERIES of sidequests to tank fight was such a major misstep it made people disregard all the good and clever stuff in the game and dislike it overall.
I want AAA games to have a stressed parent consultant and an obsessive 100%er consultant. The job of the former is to kick up a fuss when the game stops the main plot and makes you grind for beaver pelts. That person should be able to veto shitty questlines like that and FORCE them to make the main throughline well paced and interesting throughout. The latter person's job is to point out when the optional tasks are boring, poorly designed, or asking too much. Collect all the sea shanties and fight legendary ships when your ship is fully upgraded? Awesome! Collect Animus diamonds that are on random empty islands to unlock... weird cheats sometimes and no story content? Cut that shit, it sucks.
I know people like to shit on the ubi open world model, but sometimes just checking boxes while zoning out is very comfortable to me. I can do that in AC games
Also just any big game where I really like the world I welcome all sorts of side content.
I understand there's a limit to just how much stuff can be super deep and exquisitely planned and written. So I will gladly take some more simple filler missions just for a reason to spend more time enjoying that world and playing that game.
It's really weird how there are people here seeming to straight up say "no you shouldn't get to enjoy that".
Like, I know if the shoe was on the other foot it wouldn't just be people saying "yea you're right I shouldn't get to enjoy that because you don't"
oh my god collecting seas shanties was INSANELY frustrating it completely killed that game for me
See?! SEE?!? Different strokes!
Well, you were probably frustrated by the "moving page in the wind" mechanic that was a holdover from earlier games, they just made the reward better in IV. The main point of that example is that the reward was real and interesting, not that trying to guess the page's path was necessarily fun.
Never said you shouldn't enjoy it I just said content for the sake of content is bad lol
I'm referring to people actually suggesting that long games should actually stop being so long.
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
I think video games are too long. But I think that can be as true of a ten hour game as a hundred hour one. I think it’s often more a failing on pacing than it is on the amount of content in a game.
Mainline quest every game and do side quests if you still want more after that. That's how I have to play games now.
Partly because I don't have time anymore, and partly because games like AC are happy to copy paste bandit camps all over and give you quests to kill them.
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Ridler bloat sucked.
Andromeda bloat sucked as well.
Really a quest can be anything, but give me some tangible stuff for the quest. Like a ten second cutscene to start it off minimum, some in game dialogue when I get to a location to remind me what I’m doing and why I care, maybe a small twist and cutscene when I collect the maguffin and then a short thing to finish up again.
Also, if people suck, don’t make them mandatory content, I hated that bloody baron quest because I was helping an abusive husband find his wife, the second I could abandon that quest I fucking did it, apparently if you play through the optional quest he gets his comeuppance but, that wasn’t made clear to me while playing the game.
Also, if people suck, don’t make them mandatory content, I hated that bloody baron quest because I was helping an abusive husband find his wife, the second I could abandon that quest I fucking did it, apparently if you play through the optional quest he gets his comeuppance but, that wasn’t made clear to me while playing the game.
i thought he only got his comeuppance if you chose to; wasn't there an option to totally side with the shithead?
Also, if people suck, don’t make them mandatory content, I hated that bloody baron quest because I was helping an abusive husband find his wife, the second I could abandon that quest I fucking did it, apparently if you play through the optional quest he gets his comeuppance but, that wasn’t made clear to me while playing the game.
i thought he only got his comeuppance if you chose to; wasn't there an option to totally side with the shithead?
The Witcher is about making choices so yeah sort of. But also many quests end in such a way that no one really ends up super happy with the way things turned out, which is very much a worldview carried over from the books.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
At least as I played it, the game forced me to find his daughter and wife, and I chose every option to call him a dick. I completed the Ciri stuff then there was an optional side quest to go with the baron to go get his wife, I never actually did that, because of how video games are, I don’t know the end results of the quest and didn’t want me bumbling through text options only to have the baron get back with his wife.
If there was a side quest for me to flip off the baron and let the wife free by myself, I would have done that, but at least I never found that.
Posts
More video games should be longer.
All games must also be a service
No
But what if... yes?
all video game stories should be 500 hours long as a minimum
cuz like on one hand sure there are games that pack themselves with filler so that they can advertise having a thousand hours of content or whatever. But also like, sometimes it's fun to just sorta bathe in something for a couple months as you work your way through it.
of course there's merit to short, tight experiences, but i also feel like the bar constantly shifts around what's considered "too long." Like I remember when 100 hours was thought of as too long for anyone but hardcore JRPG players, and then 60 hours was a bit overstuffed, then 40, and then it hit a point of "i got kids when do you expect me to make time for a 20 hour game"
and like i'm not knockin' single-digit hour counts, there's some really fantastic games that can be wrapped up in an afternoon. I just don't really feel like any particular game-length is an inherent positive or negative, it's just sort of a neutral descriptor and you might have your own personal preferences one way or the other
i also kinda can't help but wonder if part of the reason that's such a prominent opinion among critics is that, y'know, critics have to play a ton of games back-to-back and long games put a lot of pressure on their workflow. Banging out a 40 hour game in a week on top of everything else going on in your life does sound pretty crummy, let alone doing it multiple times a year. but also nobody else has the pressure to finish games that quickly.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
And short, long and medium length games all exist.
There's really no "games are too long" or "games are too short"
Just "games are varying lengths because there are different audiences that enjoy different lengths of games"
A whole lot of the issues in the industry are a result of ever expanding scope and scale, and they should seriously consider pulling back a bit.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Streaming, youtube and a general increasing cultural emphasis on FOMO means that a larger number of people feel this preasure than they probably should in an ideal world
that's why the side quests aren't required nor do you have to explore the entire map. it's just there to do if you like doing it
No. God no.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Many folks would rather have the option of lots of side content to decide how much time they can spend working on that stuff or not.
I just don't see how the idea of getting rid of content people enjoy because someone else doesn't enjoy it really makes a lot of sense.
What's bland to you made an experience great to someone else. Why should they have to lose that to make something more enjoyable to you?
And if the design is actually just bad, well that's bad design. It's not the actual length that is the issue in that case. If an FPS has shitty shooting mechanics it doesn't mean that other games shouldn't have shooting or that they should remove the shooting to make the game better. It means the game is just kinda shitty.
YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE LONGER
THIS FUCKING NOT-E3 BULLSHIT WE NEED AT LEAST 50 MORE WEEKS OF THIS
that's fair, but in that case i feel like blaming games for being too long is sort of misdiagnosing the problem?
Like if every game were short enough that everyone could keep up with the endless hype cycle it's not like that would make the endless hype cycle a good thing
http://www.audioentropy.com/
This GB poll was a bit shocking to me.
I have played 1 run of Monster Train, finished Ori, and nothing else on here. And I'm not sure there's much on there I want to play. FF7R eventually probably. P5 Royal is tempting. I don't really know what Huntdown or Legends of Runeterra even are.
Pretty empty game year for me, so far.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Everything I've read so far sounds like all steps in the right direction. Just let me see it in action!
Games are too long and also it is a symptom of a deliberately crafted culture that is impossible to fix solely by shortening game length, yes
except i like it so no!
I know people like to shit on the ubi open world model, but sometimes just checking boxes while zoning out is very comfortable to me. I can do that in AC games
i very much appreciate the brain dead gameplay but Vegeta is right as well; it leads to crunch which is fucking awful.
I want AAA games to have a stressed parent consultant and an obsessive 100%er consultant. The job of the former is to kick up a fuss when the game stops the main plot and makes you grind for beaver pelts. That person should be able to veto shitty questlines like that and FORCE them to make the main throughline well paced and interesting throughout. The latter person's job is to point out when the optional tasks are boring, poorly designed, or asking too much. Collect all the sea shanties and fight legendary ships when your ship is fully upgraded? Awesome! Collect Animus diamonds that are on random empty islands to unlock... weird cheats sometimes and no story content? Cut that shit, it sucks.
See?! SEE?!? Different strokes!
Also just any big game where I really like the world I welcome all sorts of side content.
I understand there's a limit to just how much stuff can be super deep and exquisitely planned and written. So I will gladly take some more simple filler missions just for a reason to spend more time enjoying that world and playing that game.
It's really weird how there are people here seeming to straight up say "no you shouldn't get to enjoy that".
Like, I know if the shoe was on the other foot it wouldn't just be people saying "yea you're right I shouldn't get to enjoy that because you don't"
Well, you were probably frustrated by the "moving page in the wind" mechanic that was a holdover from earlier games, they just made the reward better in IV. The main point of that example is that the reward was real and interesting, not that trying to guess the page's path was necessarily fun.
I'm referring to people actually suggesting that long games should actually stop being so long.
Partly because I don't have time anymore, and partly because games like AC are happy to copy paste bandit camps all over and give you quests to kill them.
Andromeda bloat sucked as well.
Really a quest can be anything, but give me some tangible stuff for the quest. Like a ten second cutscene to start it off minimum, some in game dialogue when I get to a location to remind me what I’m doing and why I care, maybe a small twist and cutscene when I collect the maguffin and then a short thing to finish up again.
Also, if people suck, don’t make them mandatory content, I hated that bloody baron quest because I was helping an abusive husband find his wife, the second I could abandon that quest I fucking did it, apparently if you play through the optional quest he gets his comeuppance but, that wasn’t made clear to me while playing the game.
Satans..... hints.....
i thought he only got his comeuppance if you chose to; wasn't there an option to totally side with the shithead?
The Witcher is about making choices so yeah sort of. But also many quests end in such a way that no one really ends up super happy with the way things turned out, which is very much a worldview carried over from the books.
If there was a side quest for me to flip off the baron and let the wife free by myself, I would have done that, but at least I never found that.
Satans..... hints.....