If that isn't enough for you, so be it. I only ask you admit it. If saving as many lives as possible is the "lesser evil," then yes that is the choice you should make. Every time.
And yeah, I am going to judge you. I can't help it. You think you're making a moral choice and remaining true to your ideals. I think you're willing to let me and everyone I love die so you can say you were right on Facebook.
Like I said before, conscience is important. Follow it—and understand the cost.
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
Yes, it's your burden as a citizen
Sorry that democracy is hard
Nah, screw that.
I vote for who I want to be president. I have no responsibility to vote for someone just because others say the opponent is worse.
Surely the 100th time you try the 'yell for several pages' method of voter persuasion it will work better
I don’t think anyone here is going to persuaded to vote one way or the other. Anyone spending time reading and posting here knows how or if they’ll vote. It’s a forum for debate and discourse.
And the Glorious Edict only stops the use of specific invectives, but not the actual trolling.
Surely the 100th time you try the 'yell for several pages' method of voter persuasion it will work better
I'd say this goes both ways. The amount of times I've seen it said I am a bad person for backing the Dems and Biden is evil hasn't really changed my mind.
And its kinda just frustrating because I want there to be an election thread, where I can keep up with the news. But every 5 pages someone has to let everyone else know Biden sucks and it devolves into a another regurgitated Primary Proxy war.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
I won't lie to you. I don't know. But I do know we will never find the path to a better future if we surrender to Trump. We will never have the chance for something better if Trump succeeds in turning our democracy into a de-facto dictatorship. That's the path we are on right now.
You might spend your entire life voting for the lesser evil, when you wish you could vote for the truly good. It's entirely possible. I can only ask you to bare that burden so that maybe, some day, we can break the cycle and achieve something better. And if not us then our children, or our children's children. Progress is difficult, progress is painful, progress is slow. But there will be no opportunity for progress if Trump gets his way. Please help us.
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
Yes. Life is compromise. Literally any candidate would be a compromise because they won't match all your values and positions and experiences. And unless you plan on finding some magic perfect person, everyone is some degree of evil including you. You will never be able to vote for someone without evil and pretending otherwise is beyond utopianism.
More specifically if your positions are so far outside the mainstream that you view Biden as 'diet evil' comparable to Trump's evil then adopting your positions would be so anti-democratic that doing so itself would be a moral evil. How staggeringly arrogant to presume your political will should trump the vast majority of the citizenry. So you might as well embrace the actions that promote administrations that are "less evil".
Just so we're clear, in response to me questioning the dissolution of my autonomy as a democratic actor, I am evil and anti-democratic?
I just want us to be accurate with the political resume we're throwing on me for expressing my disdain for a lack of true autonomy.
It is the height of arrogance yes. You think that you are the one being held hostage but the counter case would be to project your will onto the polity instead. It is a deeply undemocratic and incredibly arrogant position.
You will also die someday; "true autonomy" is nonsense and fictional.
You're making a truly compelling case for any political engagement within the system.
"Disregard your convictions and vote for the guy that just wants to shoot you in the leg" is a sales pitch you may want to rework in the office.
Seriously, if this argument is that I, as a political agent in a democratic republic, have no real sense of autonomy and must vote for who this collective demands, what sense of freedom do I truly have in relation to the president elect? You can keep hurling claims of me being undemocratic, but you insults of arrogance and demands of one-street voting send a very similar message.
You have as much autonomy as any of us. The vast, vast majority of people here did not want Biden. But he's now the Dem nominee and the only other realistic winner of the election is Donald Trump.
Our two options are to either progress to the left a bit more or regress to the right a whole lot more. Having only those two as viable choices sucks and is unfair but it's the reality we live in. So you can either participate to try and make things better or do nothing and let them get worse.
It is easily possible to vote for someone while working to pressure them.
JFK and LBJ were not that amazingly progressive on civil rights but most voters still voted for them while civil rights activists continued to pressure them
I think that realistically other representatives of other elements of the political spectrum should run, not because they're going to win, but because they can put forth a manifesto that you can then subscribe towards and show that you're clearly in support of certain things that the main candidates don't fulfil.
Biden needed to give a decent speech last night, and I think it was a great one. I can't imagine Trump or anyone at the RNC matching it. I am interested to see the format for the RNC convention Considering all that has gone on, this virtual convention went pretty smoothly, and I wouldn't be opposed to doing a virtual roll call from the states every year. I really enjoyed seeing a small snapshot of every state and the voters.
Jon Lovett was joking before this started they should make one of these type of images:
but with Biden's face to cover up when everything fucks up.
But you know, I don't think anything really fucked up much at all during that whole thing. It went shockingly smoothly. And pretty effective for something no one has ever done before. I was impressed.
If for some god-awful fingers-crossed-never-happens reason you had to do this again, there's a lot that's been learned I think and you could do it even better.
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
Yes, it's your burden as a citizen
Sorry that democracy is hard
Nah, screw that.
I vote for who I want to be president. I have no responsibility to vote for someone just because others say the opponent is worse.
So do you want Trump or Biden? Those are the two choices of who can become president this election regardless of the reasons for that.
There is no "neither becomes president" choice in any meaningful sense
The centrist are always going to be somewhat less nightmarish than the fascists and the political elite that form the majority of Democrat trend towards centrism, therefore you're basically just going to get centrist Dems as an option forever because they know you have no choice, until you are able to leverage support to force them to move left.
The only leverage you have is your vote so by casting it in support of a centrist you're basically throwing your influence away. You're caving instantly.
Caving to what? What do you think you're holding out for? If you don't help Biden get into office, if you don't help the Democrats retake the Senate then there's no one to influence anyway, and you're contributing to a Republican victory doesn't teach anyone anything other than "More people wanted the Republican message". You're literally pushing perceptions in the opposite direction you want them to go.
Support Biden, support the Democrats, and then once Biden accomplishes what he can, then we can go further beyond that.
even fewer people would die if biden was less shit
but that ain't happening either
Sure isn't! You can have 200,000 people die or 20,000 people die. Those are the options. Deciding to not participate doesn't make one immune from the moral culpability.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
I think that realistically other representatives of other elements of the political spectrum should run, not because they're going to win, but because they can put forth a manifesto that you can then subscribe towards and show that you're clearly in support of certain things that the main candidates don't fulfil.
This is what happens during the primary.
can you feel the struggle within?
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Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
I just ask that, provided we get Biden in the white house, you join in on calling the Democrats out on stuff they do wrong after that. And while he is getting my vote, I also ask please not to judge folks who legitimately cannot bring themselves to cast that vote for Biden.
I will absolutely judge anyone who does not cast a vote for Biden. While it’s their prerogative to exercise that freedom, it’s also mine to judge them for it.
You know what, that's entirely fair.
My thoughts on it were to encourage not exercising someone's will on another, and by that same argument I can't exactly tell you what to do about it.
I am going to express my opinion that this is something that might be better to be talked about with more empathy than scorn, though. Everyone here has that baseline agreement of wanting improvement, and why they don't want to cast that vote could be a personally touchy subject. And apologies if I am reading into things too much and reading a harsher tone on statements than intended.
Surely the 100th time you try the 'yell for several pages' method of voter persuasion it will work better
I'd say this goes both ways. The amount of times I've seen it said I am a bad person for backing the Dems and Biden is evil hasn't really changed my mind.
And its kinda just frustrating because I want there to be an election thread, where I can keep up with the news. But every 5 pages someone has to let everyone else know Biden sucks and it devolves into a another regurgitated Primary Proxy war.
There's not a lot of grace or patience extended to others of a different political view and it's made a lot of these conversations incredibly toxic/push people away
even fewer people would die if biden was less shit
but that ain't happening either
Sure isn't! You can have 200,000 people die or 20,000 people die. Those are the options. Deciding to not participate doesn't make one immune from the moral culpability.
but it does make biden immune to moral culpability, apparently
I think that realistically other representatives of other elements of the political spectrum should run, not because they're going to win, but because they can put forth a manifesto that you can then subscribe towards and show that you're clearly in support of certain things that the main candidates don't fulfil.
This is what happens during the primary.
In the primary you choose you're preferred candidate, but you should then have other places to put your vote if the party goes for someone you don't want to vote for. I think that'd be good.
even fewer people would die if biden was less shit
but that ain't happening either
Sure isn't! You can have 200,000 people die or 20,000 people die. Those are the options. Deciding to not participate doesn't make one immune from the moral culpability.
but it does make biden immune to moral culpability, apparently
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
Yes. Life is compromise. Literally any candidate would be a compromise because they won't match all your values and positions and experiences. And unless you plan on finding some magic perfect person, everyone is some degree of evil including you. You will never be able to vote for someone without evil and pretending otherwise is beyond utopianism.
More specifically if your positions are so far outside the mainstream that you view Biden as 'diet evil' comparable to Trump's evil then adopting your positions would be so anti-democratic that doing so itself would be a moral evil. How staggeringly arrogant to presume your political will should trump the vast majority of the citizenry. So you might as well embrace the actions that promote administrations that are "less evil".
Just so we're clear, in response to me questioning the dissolution of my autonomy as a democratic actor, I am evil and anti-democratic?
I just want us to be accurate with the political resume we're throwing on me for expressing my disdain for a lack of true autonomy.
It is the height of arrogance yes. You think that you are the one being held hostage but the counter case would be to project your will onto the polity instead. It is a deeply undemocratic and incredibly arrogant position.
You will also die someday; "true autonomy" is nonsense and fictional.
You're making a truly compelling case for any political engagement within the system.
"Disregard your convictions and vote for the guy that just wants to shoot you in the leg" is a sales pitch you may want to rework in the office.
Seriously, if this argument is that I, as a political agent in a democratic republic, have no real sense of autonomy and must vote for who this collective demands, what sense of freedom do I truly have in relation to the president elect? You can keep hurling claims of me being undemocratic, but you insults of arrogance and demands of one-street voting send a very similar message.
I mean, what do you expect a voter to be capable of doing in a democracy? You vote for a candidate, or write in a vote (which on a national level is more or less the same as not voting). There is no form of democracy which guarantees you a candidate that you like, unless you yourself run. Virtually all of the time democracy means voting for someone you have disagreements with.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
If that isn't enough for you, so be it. I only ask you admit it. If saving as many lives as possible is the "lesser evil," then yes that is the choice you should make. Every time.
And yeah, I am going to judge you. I can't help it. You think you're making a moral choice and remaining true to your ideals. I think you're willing to let me and everyone I love die so you can say you were right on Facebook.
Like I said before, conscience is important. Follow it—and understand the cost.
I mean, this is good and all if you prescribe to a more utilitarian moral framework.
And its especially good if you only consider things under a utilitarian moral framework.
But if you don't...? If your morals and value system aren't based on that framework?
I do understand the concern that a vote for Biden may lead to a loss for Democrats next time. I have had it myself, and why I voted Bernie (among other reasons). Unfortunately, we don't have any sort of ranked choice system, so I don't have much of a choice, other than to vote for the better candidate.
I think that realistically other representatives of other elements of the political spectrum should run, not because they're going to win, but because they can put forth a manifesto that you can then subscribe towards and show that you're clearly in support of certain things that the main candidates don't fulfil.
This is what happens during the primary.
In the primary you choose you're preferred candidate, but you should then have other places to put your vote if the party goes for someone you don't want to vote for. I think that'd be good.
Sure, and if the United States had a different system of government where more than two parties could reasonably govern, like the parliamentary systems other countries use, you’d have more options. It’s absolutely worth exploring systemic change that might result in that, since clearly there are major problems with the system we have now. Ranked choice voting, for instance, is a positive, significant step in that direction.
The current system isn’t changing before November, however.
So do you want Trump or Biden? Those are the two choices of who can become president this election regardless of the reasons for that.
There is no "neither becomes president" choice in any meaningful sense
There are more people on the ballot than just Trump or Biden, there is even a write in candidate slot. I have no need to vote for Biden or Trump, and I have no responsibility to do so.
If that isn't enough for you, so be it. I only ask you admit it. If saving as many lives as possible is the "lesser evil," then yes that is the choice you should make. Every time.
And yeah, I am going to judge you. I can't help it. You think you're making a moral choice and remaining true to your ideals. I think you're willing to let me and everyone I love die so you can say you were right on Facebook.
Like I said before, conscience is important. Follow it—and understand the cost.
I mean, this is good and all if you prescribe to a more utilitarian moral framework.
And its especially good if you only consider things under a utilitarian moral framework.
But if you don't...? If your morals and value system aren't based on that framework?
Mine most definitely aren't based solely on utilitarianism. That said, I've spent enough time wallowing in ethical philosophy to know I'll pull the trolley lever. I'm going to feel terrible guilt either way and I'd rather feel the guilt of one person dying than ten.
I have no empathy for people who support left-wing ideals but aren't voting democrat in American elections.
Until the Republican party is dead and buried, or you change your system to have ranked choice voting, then you are not an ally in any way that matters.
Ironically conservatives understand this. It's why they keep winning.
I know some folks just plain don't like Biden, they feel like voting for him would betray some part of themselves. I can only imagine what that must feel like. But please understand, if Trump wins this thing we may never get a chance to vote for someone better than Biden. I don't think it's hyperbole to say our democracy is very near to death. Trump is a cancer. Your vote is a scalpel. Please help us cut this cancer out.
Till the next time, right?
Till the next presidential election when the right run another cartoon villain, right?
Can I ask, when do I get released from this hostage situation as a voter?
Is my sense of autonomy always going to be compromised and over-ridden due to the necessity to vote for diet-evil over ultra-evil?
Always is a long time. Probably not always. Honest answer though? That damnable choice might be there for the entirety of your voting life.
I know right now Biden must be voted for to even have the opportunity for something better to come along. Not doing that smacks of accelerationism. Another Trump victory is going to do nobody good. You, me, Trump, Biden, leftist of all stripes, Dems, 'Pubs, fascist, white supremacist, cops, white people, black people, native Americans, the 99%, the 1%, the 0.1%, kids in cages, and those who want them rescued will all lose badly, and possibly never get the chance to recover.
So do you want Trump or Biden? Those are the two choices of who can become president this election regardless of the reasons for that.
There is no "neither becomes president" choice in any meaningful sense
There are more people on the ballot than just Trump or Biden, there is even a write in candidate slot. I have no need to vote for Biden or Trump, and I have no responsibility to do so.
It is a choice in the same way as saying I want free healthcare is a choice when my hospital asks me how I want to pay for the bill.
By voting for Biden you actually reduce the chance of getting someone you do want to vote for, though. Biden does not know you voted for him under the duress of "I guess you aren't a fascist even though you do love a blatantly nationalist and imperialist country and have at times supported the same kind of policies that the guys who are fascists also supported" does he. Voting for him creates no incentive for him to move left, he already has your vote.
You could say the same about not voting for him though. That's why I think most here would agree that the primary is the place for such process and argument to play out
If you don't vote for him then he actually has to think about how he's going to win your vote. If you do then he's got it and he doesn't.
I like the concept of vote to choose your desired adversary
I think that realistically other representatives of other elements of the political spectrum should run, not because they're going to win, but because they can put forth a manifesto that you can then subscribe towards and show that you're clearly in support of certain things that the main candidates don't fulfil.
This is what happens during the primary.
And it is in fact what happened in the primary and one of the reasons Biden's platform supports things it didn't previously support.
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SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
I don't know where I recently saw it, but I thought this was clever:
American politics isn't a marriage, it's a bus. You're not looking for a soul mate, you're trying to get somewhere, and if the bus doesn't go right to where you're wanting to go, you take the first bus and then take another bus, you don't just stay home and say "well it didn't run direct."
SummaryJudgment on
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
The centrist are always going to be somewhat less nightmarish than the fascists and the political elite that form the majority of Democrat trend towards centrism, therefore you're basically just going to get centrist Dems as an option forever because they know you have no choice, until you are able to leverage support to force them to move left.
The only leverage you have is your vote so by casting it in support of a centrist you're basically throwing your influence away. You're caving instantly.
Caving to what? What do you think you're holding out for? If you don't help Biden get into office, if you don't help the Democrats retake the Senate then there's no one to influence anyway, and you're contributing to a Republican victory doesn't teach anyone anything other than "More people wanted the Republican message". You're literally pushing perceptions in the opposite direction you want them to go.
Support Biden, support the Democrats, and then once Biden accomplishes what he can, then we can go further beyond that.
Solar lives in the UK so wouldn't be voting for Biden under any but the most bizarre circumstances.
joe biden is but a man, and is unable to do ought but cut and limit social services because the the dEfIcIt exploded from tax cuts, the one constant in the universe
perhaps, if we the american people simply did not fail him by refusing to love and support him unconditionally he would not need to make this terrible choice
I don't know where I recently saw it, but I thought this was clever:
American politics isn't a marriage, it's a bus. You're not looking for a soul mate, you're trying to get somewhere, and if the bus doesn't go right to where you're wanting to go, you take the first bus and then take another bus, you don't just stay home and say "well it didn't run direct."
joe biden is but a man, and is unable to do ought but cut and limit social services because the the dEfIcIt exploded from tax cuts, the one constant in the universe
perhaps, if we the american people simply did not fail him by refusing to love and support him unconditionally he would not need to make this terrible choice
Nobody here has said this. I understand being despondent but it's not a reason to resort to intellectual dishonesty.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
I don't know where I recently saw it, but I thought this was clever:
American politics isn't a marriage, it's a bus. You're not looking for a soul mate, you're trying to get somewhere, and if the bus doesn't go right to where you're wanting to go, you take the first bus and then take another bus, you don't just stay home and say "well it didn't run direct."
what if both buses are going the wrong way
Then you pick the bus going closer to where you want to get to.
Because both buses are not going to the same place.
Has Biden actually suggested he would cut services because of the deficit or are people just treating some random with a connection to the campaign as being proof positive of it?
Posts
If that isn't enough for you, so be it. I only ask you admit it. If saving as many lives as possible is the "lesser evil," then yes that is the choice you should make. Every time.
And yeah, I am going to judge you. I can't help it. You think you're making a moral choice and remaining true to your ideals. I think you're willing to let me and everyone I love die so you can say you were right on Facebook.
Like I said before, conscience is important. Follow it—and understand the cost.
Nah, screw that.
I vote for who I want to be president. I have no responsibility to vote for someone just because others say the opponent is worse.
And the Glorious Edict only stops the use of specific invectives, but not the actual trolling.
I'd say this goes both ways. The amount of times I've seen it said I am a bad person for backing the Dems and Biden is evil hasn't really changed my mind.
And its kinda just frustrating because I want there to be an election thread, where I can keep up with the news. But every 5 pages someone has to let everyone else know Biden sucks and it devolves into a another regurgitated Primary Proxy war.
I won't lie to you. I don't know. But I do know we will never find the path to a better future if we surrender to Trump. We will never have the chance for something better if Trump succeeds in turning our democracy into a de-facto dictatorship. That's the path we are on right now.
You might spend your entire life voting for the lesser evil, when you wish you could vote for the truly good. It's entirely possible. I can only ask you to bare that burden so that maybe, some day, we can break the cycle and achieve something better. And if not us then our children, or our children's children. Progress is difficult, progress is painful, progress is slow. But there will be no opportunity for progress if Trump gets his way. Please help us.
You have as much autonomy as any of us. The vast, vast majority of people here did not want Biden. But he's now the Dem nominee and the only other realistic winner of the election is Donald Trump.
Our two options are to either progress to the left a bit more or regress to the right a whole lot more. Having only those two as viable choices sucks and is unfair but it's the reality we live in. So you can either participate to try and make things better or do nothing and let them get worse.
JFK and LBJ were not that amazingly progressive on civil rights but most voters still voted for them while civil rights activists continued to pressure them
but that ain't happening either
Jon Lovett was joking before this started they should make one of these type of images:
But you know, I don't think anything really fucked up much at all during that whole thing. It went shockingly smoothly. And pretty effective for something no one has ever done before. I was impressed.
If for some god-awful fingers-crossed-never-happens reason you had to do this again, there's a lot that's been learned I think and you could do it even better.
So do you want Trump or Biden? Those are the two choices of who can become president this election regardless of the reasons for that.
There is no "neither becomes president" choice in any meaningful sense
Caving to what? What do you think you're holding out for? If you don't help Biden get into office, if you don't help the Democrats retake the Senate then there's no one to influence anyway, and you're contributing to a Republican victory doesn't teach anyone anything other than "More people wanted the Republican message". You're literally pushing perceptions in the opposite direction you want them to go.
Support Biden, support the Democrats, and then once Biden accomplishes what he can, then we can go further beyond that.
Sure isn't! You can have 200,000 people die or 20,000 people die. Those are the options. Deciding to not participate doesn't make one immune from the moral culpability.
This is what happens during the primary.
You know what, that's entirely fair.
My thoughts on it were to encourage not exercising someone's will on another, and by that same argument I can't exactly tell you what to do about it.
I am going to express my opinion that this is something that might be better to be talked about with more empathy than scorn, though. Everyone here has that baseline agreement of wanting improvement, and why they don't want to cast that vote could be a personally touchy subject. And apologies if I am reading into things too much and reading a harsher tone on statements than intended.
There's not a lot of grace or patience extended to others of a different political view and it's made a lot of these conversations incredibly toxic/push people away
In the primary you choose you're preferred candidate, but you should then have other places to put your vote if the party goes for someone you don't want to vote for. I think that'd be good.
No, it doesn't.
I mean, what do you expect a voter to be capable of doing in a democracy? You vote for a candidate, or write in a vote (which on a national level is more or less the same as not voting). There is no form of democracy which guarantees you a candidate that you like, unless you yourself run. Virtually all of the time democracy means voting for someone you have disagreements with.
I mean, this is good and all if you prescribe to a more utilitarian moral framework.
And its especially good if you only consider things under a utilitarian moral framework.
But if you don't...? If your morals and value system aren't based on that framework?
Sure, and if the United States had a different system of government where more than two parties could reasonably govern, like the parliamentary systems other countries use, you’d have more options. It’s absolutely worth exploring systemic change that might result in that, since clearly there are major problems with the system we have now. Ranked choice voting, for instance, is a positive, significant step in that direction.
The current system isn’t changing before November, however.
There are more people on the ballot than just Trump or Biden, there is even a write in candidate slot. I have no need to vote for Biden or Trump, and I have no responsibility to do so.
Mine most definitely aren't based solely on utilitarianism. That said, I've spent enough time wallowing in ethical philosophy to know I'll pull the trolley lever. I'm going to feel terrible guilt either way and I'd rather feel the guilt of one person dying than ten.
This isn't supposed to be a metadiscussion about the system for crying out loud
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Until the Republican party is dead and buried, or you change your system to have ranked choice voting, then you are not an ally in any way that matters.
Ironically conservatives understand this. It's why they keep winning.
Always is a long time. Probably not always. Honest answer though? That damnable choice might be there for the entirety of your voting life.
I know right now Biden must be voted for to even have the opportunity for something better to come along. Not doing that smacks of accelerationism. Another Trump victory is going to do nobody good. You, me, Trump, Biden, leftist of all stripes, Dems, 'Pubs, fascist, white supremacist, cops, white people, black people, native Americans, the 99%, the 1%, the 0.1%, kids in cages, and those who want them rescued will all lose badly, and possibly never get the chance to recover.
It is a choice in the same way as saying I want free healthcare is a choice when my hospital asks me how I want to pay for the bill.
I like the concept of vote to choose your desired adversary
And it is in fact what happened in the primary and one of the reasons Biden's platform supports things it didn't previously support.
American politics isn't a marriage, it's a bus. You're not looking for a soul mate, you're trying to get somewhere, and if the bus doesn't go right to where you're wanting to go, you take the first bus and then take another bus, you don't just stay home and say "well it didn't run direct."
perhaps, if we the american people simply did not fail him by refusing to love and support him unconditionally he would not need to make this terrible choice
Nobody here has said this. I understand being despondent but it's not a reason to resort to intellectual dishonesty.
Then you pick the bus going closer to where you want to get to.
Because both buses are not going to the same place.