ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Man, I have had some ROUGH losses. This seems definitely more difficult than WR in ways beyond just the learning curve. Here are my thoughts (spoilered for long):
The larger map means it's harder for one or two good players to truly be everywhere and dominate.
The game is subtly longer. WR games can go anywhere from say, 18 to 25 minutes with some obvious variance for fast surrenders or longer slogs. In my experience, PC is 25 to 30ish minutes but the way those minutes are distributed are very different. WR ends laning very quickly and goes to team fighting. PC laning is significantly longer, and then you lose some fights and it's basically wrapped up in short order. My guess is this has to do with tower plating.
Similarly, PC feels more inevitable. The small map and softer/fewer towers mean even if you're behind you can very quickly win a teamfight due to some luck or bad positioning on the other side, ace them and roll straight through two towers and a nexus.
A lot of this adds up to that carries carry harder in WR. It is much harder to completely destroy their lane early since towers are more protective and the laning phase is proportionately longer. If they're going to get their farm. You also can't close out as quickly in the lanes you ARE winning, and then when you're teamfighting they're going to ruin you.
Some jungle specific differences:
It is significantly harder to solo dragon or herald because those mobs are much tankier. The longer the fight lasts, the easier it is for them to come up with a counterattack and the less safe it is for me to try to sneak it in trade for say, they get dragon I take this. This also means it's harder for me to translate being good at the jungle into the map because I could solo herald, drop it in lane and take a tower.
Farming/counterjungling matters so much more in PC. Maybe I'm playing WR totally off but it feels like mobs respawn so quickly in WR that there's very little point to counterjungling. I think this is a large part of why Shyvana is so terrible in that game. If you kill the jungler and want to take half of their side, well, your side probably already respawned and by the time they get back to it they might not even notice you did anything.
Because jungle mobs are like paper there's a lot less of having to choose what to do. Killing camps takes significantly longer on pc so if you're trying to do it on the way to a gank your timing window just might be gone in PC.
It's definitely a much more demoralizing game it feels. I definitely think I've gotten better. I'm dying less, I'm picking better fights, my CS is getting higher on average. If I had to boil it down, WR is a game you could win by making plays, PC feels like it's more about not making mistakes. I'd be interested to see what other people who have done both think though.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
WR definitely devalues CS and has far weaker jungle mobs, but that's a function of control limitations. You can't micromanage with touch controls so they have to make the jungle role simpler and make lane phase more about making plays than farming.
I had to stop playing Wild Rift though. The lower cooldowns and quicker pace made me worse at League, and I do still enjoy getting on with friends from time to time.
WR definitely devalues CS and has far weaker jungle mobs, but that's a function of control limitations. You can't micromanage with touch controls so they have to make the jungle role simpler and make lane phase more about making plays than farming.
I had to stop playing Wild Rift though. The lower cooldowns and quicker pace made me worse at League, and I do still enjoy getting on with friends from time to time.
I don't think that's entirely it. Jungle mobs just hit harder and do more damage in the PC version, clears are a lot healthier in WR. I do think that's a choice though in part of the faster action. You can't be doing a full clear and then back, you gotta full clear and have plenty of health to run around and gank and do shit.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
If you made jungle mobs as tough on WR as they were on PC the job would be near impossible. You can't reliably kite like you can with mouse controls and Wild Rift doesn't even have jungle items. I'm not saying its the only reason, but controls definitely dictate a lot of the game design.
If you made jungle mobs as tough on WR as they were on PC the job would be near impossible. You can't reliably kite like you can with mouse controls and Wild Rift doesn't even have jungle items. I'm not saying its the only reason, but controls definitely dictate a lot of the game design.
But you can't tell me bronze leaguers (or shit, silver?) are really kiting the shit out of the mobs or moving the small krug around the big one to avoid getting hit. There is definitely upside to clearing your jungle better on PC, but it's not unplayable or impossible if you cannot. Not to mention for some junglers it's pretty trivial. Fiddlesticks can't really kite them that much at all since he's channeling drain.
Making the junglers hit harder on WR might reduce the pool of viable junglers due to the control limitations some but many many junglers can clear fine, if not totally safely/optimally on PC without moving at all.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
seems their answer to Janna top is to nerf OBJ bounties if your team has two or more support items
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
seems their answer to Janna top is to nerf OBJ bounties if your team has two or more support items
Feels like a light touch that seems like it could be exploitable.
You already can’t buy a smite item and a wardstone item at the same time. Why not change it so that you can’t have smite (natively) and a wardstone item at all.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
seems their answer to Janna top is to nerf OBJ bounties if your team has two or more support items
Feels like a light touch that seems like it could be exploitable.
You already can’t buy a smite item and a wardstone item at the same time. Why not change it so that you can’t have smite (natively) and a wardstone item at all.
Because people sometimes pick the wrong summoner spells pre game
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
So as someone who hasn't played SR this season can I get a link and/or a brief rundown on what is so messed up with Janna top?
So as someone who hasn't played SR this season can I get a link and/or a brief rundown on what is so messed up with Janna top?
You just leave lane and roam. When you get behind on gold/cs you make up for it with the objective bounties that you're given for being behind. You take smite and fuck with the enemy jungle, gank things, blah blah.
Basically it's better to just not be in top than to actually play top.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Ahh so it's not necessarily a Janna thing but so far she seems to fit that role the best meta wise. I understand now.
Ahh so it's not necessarily a Janna thing but so far she seems to fit that role the best meta wise. I understand now.
She is the Wolverine at it because of her shield, and her extra passive move speed between lanes. Karma, and Bard are honorable mentions.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Janna specifically empowers her own JNG to gank and quickly take the JNG through the passive move speed bonus. She buys a support item so she can generate an income while helping her team, she doesn't need CS or gold to really contribute.
This also manipulates the OBJ bounties to go up quicker, as without a top farmer your teams gold will be quite a bit lower than the enemy team. This further funnels gold into your carries because they continue to get extra value from the OBJs you'd already be taking.
It's toxic AF to have a Janna roaming with a Lee Sin and turbo ganking every lane while they don't fall behind at all.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Huh, the Zeri Q change so crits will actually multiply base damage as well is interesting. Might actually help make those shots feel meaty when ult isn’t up more. Will need to take it to the training lab when the patch is up and I’m not dead tired from work.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Does anyone else judge their match odds based on the number of skins on each side in the loading screen? This feels like the League equivalent of determining which team will win a sports match based on whose mascot would win in a fight.
Basically more skins > less skins, and if it's tied you gotta figure out the value of the skins.
Does anyone else judge their match odds based on the number of skins on each side in the loading screen? This feels like the League equivalent of determining which team will win a sports match based on whose mascot would win in a fight.
Basically more skins > less skins, and if it's tied you gotta figure out the value of the skins.
I mean, this is accurate in the same way reading folks mastery is.
Presuming the game is even MMR wise the people that are more investing in their character will win.*
*But also comp, rng and people getting free skins or playing a champ to M7 then dropping them all make this less accurate.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You think that's a good system and then you come against the smurf account.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Does anyone else judge their match odds based on the number of skins on each side in the loading screen? This feels like the League equivalent of determining which team will win a sports match based on whose mascot would win in a fight.
Basically more skins > less skins, and if it's tied you gotta figure out the value of the skins.
I mean, this is accurate in the same way reading folks mastery is.
Presuming the game is even MMR wise the people that are more investing in their character will win.*
*But also comp, rng and people getting free skins or playing a champ to M7 then dropping them all make this less accurate.
I do this but with the added wrinkle of I’m basically an ARAM only player.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
yeah but ARAM is a different beast. I have five game on Aphelios but you can bet your bottom dollar if I get him in ARAM the other team will weep blood
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I can smash my face against the keyboard and get an A rating with Aphelios on ARAM
I did the unthinkable a few releases back… and unlocked all the champions finally.
I am excited for Shield Rage Lady tomorrow.
I NEED this bonkers stuff from her ult breaking things.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I just saw the Cait on my team get two pentakills and a quadra. I just...wow? I would like some credit as I feel I set the table with some very clutch early ganks that got the ball rolling.
They just kept going all in on my Nunu? I think they were terrified to death of the Absolute Zero but once that started they'd just go nuts on me. They'd still all die. Fair trade every time.
I just saw the Cait on my team get two pentakills and a quadra. I just...wow? I would like some credit as I feel I set the table with some very clutch early ganks that got the ball rolling.
They just kept going all in on my Nunu? I think they were terrified to death of the Absolute Zero but once that started they'd just go nuts on me. They'd still all die. Fair trade every time.
Nunu has been the best jungler in the game for a while just by being a supportive champion with good objective control. You doing good.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I just saw the Cait on my team get two pentakills and a quadra. I just...wow? I would like some credit as I feel I set the table with some very clutch early ganks that got the ball rolling.
They just kept going all in on my Nunu? I think they were terrified to death of the Absolute Zero but once that started they'd just go nuts on me. They'd still all die. Fair trade every time.
Nunu has been the best jungler in the game for a while just by being a supportive champion with good objective control. You doing good.
Nunu has long been one of my favorites from when I played eons ago and in Wild Rift. I was really trying to avoid playing him again in PC because half the reason I got interested in PC again was the very stagnant WR meta. I think I realized 1) it's much easier to adapt to PC differences when I have the champion somewhat on lockdown and 2) I just fucking LIKE Nunu and his playstyle fits me very well and what I want to do.
Things to love about Nunu:
1) High sustain easy jungle clear. I never have to go to base if I don't want to. I'll just go snack on some monsters.
2) Great objective control.
3) THE GANKS
4) The feeling when you get the full channel on that ult
5) It's just a kid and his fucking yeti and that shit is adorable.
6) When you get swole and they can't kill you but they also can't leave and you just slap them to death.
I tried a lot of tanks like Zac or Poppy, again looking for that sweet Nunu high but they're just not Nunu. I even thought maybe Sejuani was the way: Nunu is a cold boy on a yeti, Sejuani is a cold lady on a pig. Should be basically the same, right? WRONG. Yetis > pigs.
Viego and Ekko still seem legit though as my replacements for Vi and Eve from WR.
I just saw the Cait on my team get two pentakills and a quadra. I just...wow? I would like some credit as I feel I set the table with some very clutch early ganks that got the ball rolling.
They just kept going all in on my Nunu? I think they were terrified to death of the Absolute Zero but once that started they'd just go nuts on me. They'd still all die. Fair trade every time.
Nunu has been the best jungler in the game for a while just by being a supportive champion with good objective control. You doing good.
I do miss his old Bloodboil (I think that was the ability name). Just drive by gank and give the ADC steroids.
Have you seen the new bee-themed Nunu skin they're going to release, is the important question here (they are also releasing bee Ziggs and Heimerstinger and Orbeeanna )
Man whoever at Riot came up with this incredibly stupid and yet incredibly great skin line deserves a lot of money
Have you seen the new bee-themed Nunu skin they're going to release, is the important question here (they are also releasing bee Ziggs and Heimerstinger and Orbeeanna )
Man whoever at Riot came up with this incredibly stupid and yet incredibly great skin line deserves a lot of money
I love them all and want to own them all.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Have you seen the new bee-themed Nunu skin they're going to release, is the important question here (they are also releasing bee Ziggs and Heimerstinger and Orbeeanna )
Man whoever at Riot came up with this incredibly stupid and yet incredibly great skin line deserves a lot of money
I don't know how I feel about it. Space groove and papercraft are already so good.
I tried a lot of tanks like Zac or Poppy, again looking for that sweet Nunu high but they're just not Nunu. I even thought maybe Sejuani was the way: Nunu is a cold boy on a yeti, Sejuani is a cold lady on a pig. Should be basically the same, right? WRONG. Yetis > pigs.
As someone who has Sejuani at my highest mastery this now means war
Ivellius on
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited February 2022
A guy just banned my Nunu pick because I said GLHF and then proceeded to try to flame me for being terrible at Ekko? I dunno man, don't ban the shit I wanted? Then he started taking my camps and kept pointing out how I had less cs than the Viego. Yep...that's how it works! Like I hope the troll was worth the LP. I'm not totally saying we would have won that game if I was Nunu but it wouldn't have hurt.
I tried a lot of tanks like Zac or Poppy, again looking for that sweet Nunu high but they're just not Nunu. I even thought maybe Sejuani was the way: Nunu is a cold boy on a yeti, Sejuani is a cold lady on a pig. Should be basically the same, right? WRONG. Yetis > pigs.
As someone who has Sejuani at my highest mastery this now means war
Facts is facts. Sejuani would be much more powerful if she were also riding a yeti. Also I liked her more before the rework.
The little bit of labbing I did in the… well, labs, definitely makes me think Zeri Q’s feels more meaty now early on when you get some crit. Curious to how a regular marksman crit build would feel (like IE and Hurricane and stuff), but it’s hard to test until I get into a regular game and not just against a bad bot.
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Fair. I had to put her down for about...2 years, I think, before I could come back. I can appreciate the champion she now is, but I did like the old one.
Ivellius on
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Dodging is so laaaaame. I really dislike this minigame of "oh let me just ban all the things I saw last time."
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Dodging is so laaaaame. I really dislike this minigame of "oh let me just ban all the things I saw last time."
if they do that to me I just pick swain and let them reap what they have sown
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Let me add Swain jungle to my to learn list.
+2
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Renata Glasc is released and suddenly the number of people queuing for support skyrockets
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
queueing to play support, or queueing to play Opposing Team's Carry
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Posts
Some jungle specific differences:
It's definitely a much more demoralizing game it feels. I definitely think I've gotten better. I'm dying less, I'm picking better fights, my CS is getting higher on average. If I had to boil it down, WR is a game you could win by making plays, PC feels like it's more about not making mistakes. I'd be interested to see what other people who have done both think though.
I had to stop playing Wild Rift though. The lower cooldowns and quicker pace made me worse at League, and I do still enjoy getting on with friends from time to time.
I don't think that's entirely it. Jungle mobs just hit harder and do more damage in the PC version, clears are a lot healthier in WR. I do think that's a choice though in part of the faster action. You can't be doing a full clear and then back, you gotta full clear and have plenty of health to run around and gank and do shit.
But you can't tell me bronze leaguers (or shit, silver?) are really kiting the shit out of the mobs or moving the small krug around the big one to avoid getting hit. There is definitely upside to clearing your jungle better on PC, but it's not unplayable or impossible if you cannot. Not to mention for some junglers it's pretty trivial. Fiddlesticks can't really kite them that much at all since he's channeling drain.
Making the junglers hit harder on WR might reduce the pool of viable junglers due to the control limitations some but many many junglers can clear fine, if not totally safely/optimally on PC without moving at all.
Feels like a light touch that seems like it could be exploitable.
You already can’t buy a smite item and a wardstone item at the same time. Why not change it so that you can’t have smite (natively) and a wardstone item at all.
Because people sometimes pick the wrong summoner spells pre game
You just leave lane and roam. When you get behind on gold/cs you make up for it with the objective bounties that you're given for being behind. You take smite and fuck with the enemy jungle, gank things, blah blah.
Basically it's better to just not be in top than to actually play top.
She is the Wolverine at it because of her shield, and her extra passive move speed between lanes. Karma, and Bard are honorable mentions.
This also manipulates the OBJ bounties to go up quicker, as without a top farmer your teams gold will be quite a bit lower than the enemy team. This further funnels gold into your carries because they continue to get extra value from the OBJs you'd already be taking.
It's toxic AF to have a Janna roaming with a Lee Sin and turbo ganking every lane while they don't fall behind at all.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Basically more skins > less skins, and if it's tied you gotta figure out the value of the skins.
I mean, this is accurate in the same way reading folks mastery is.
Presuming the game is even MMR wise the people that are more investing in their character will win.*
*But also comp, rng and people getting free skins or playing a champ to M7 then dropping them all make this less accurate.
I do this but with the added wrinkle of I’m basically an ARAM only player.
I am excited for Shield Rage Lady tomorrow.
I NEED this bonkers stuff from her ult breaking things.
They just kept going all in on my Nunu? I think they were terrified to death of the Absolute Zero but once that started they'd just go nuts on me. They'd still all die. Fair trade every time.
Nunu has been the best jungler in the game for a while just by being a supportive champion with good objective control. You doing good.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Nunu has long been one of my favorites from when I played eons ago and in Wild Rift. I was really trying to avoid playing him again in PC because half the reason I got interested in PC again was the very stagnant WR meta. I think I realized 1) it's much easier to adapt to PC differences when I have the champion somewhat on lockdown and 2) I just fucking LIKE Nunu and his playstyle fits me very well and what I want to do.
Things to love about Nunu:
1) High sustain easy jungle clear. I never have to go to base if I don't want to. I'll just go snack on some monsters.
2) Great objective control.
3) THE GANKS
4) The feeling when you get the full channel on that ult
5) It's just a kid and his fucking yeti and that shit is adorable.
6) When you get swole and they can't kill you but they also can't leave and you just slap them to death.
I tried a lot of tanks like Zac or Poppy, again looking for that sweet Nunu high but they're just not Nunu. I even thought maybe Sejuani was the way: Nunu is a cold boy on a yeti, Sejuani is a cold lady on a pig. Should be basically the same, right? WRONG. Yetis > pigs.
Viego and Ekko still seem legit though as my replacements for Vi and Eve from WR.
I do miss his old Bloodboil (I think that was the ability name). Just drive by gank and give the ADC steroids.
Man whoever at Riot came up with this incredibly stupid and yet incredibly great skin line deserves a lot of money
I love them all and want to own them all.
I don't know how I feel about it. Space groove and papercraft are already so good.
As someone who has Sejuani at my highest mastery this now means war
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
Facts is facts. Sejuani would be much more powerful if she were also riding a yeti. Also I liked her more before the rework.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Fair. I had to put her down for about...2 years, I think, before I could come back. I can appreciate the champion she now is, but I did like the old one.
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
if they do that to me I just pick swain and let them reap what they have sown
right!?
get out of here all you fair weather supports ;_;
the game should recognize my efforts in the support mines! GIVE ME GLASC