...which is why I am annoyed that we're not getting Pinnacle Station. I wanted to try the new combat in an actual trial instead of in storytime.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
A lot of the QoL adjustments they're making are a big deal to be sure, but a whole bunch of them appear to be mechanical changes that they can probably implement without substantially affecting or breaking the content of the original game.
A meaningful revamp of the storytelling and narrative itself would basically constitute a remake level of product we probably wouldn't see until 2023
+3
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
We all want more decent options but the reality is that that falls far beyond simple remastering and model-texture updates, and working actual content back into the game engine akin to developing an actual expansion to the trilogy (incl. creating new content for the sequels to make the "restored" content actually meaningful) honestly sounds like a shitshow
The weakness of this approach is that people are going to play ME1 and remember that... it kinda sucks in a lot of ways. Better textures won't make the inventory or worse combat any better.
They're doing more than just "better textures" though...
they literally are fixing both the combat and inventory. not overhauling but they are marked improvements on the existing systems.
that's way more than an uprez.
Calling it fixes is a massive overstatement. Like, you can use any weapon as any class... but you could already do that, it just took an achievement unlock. The inventory is better... but mods existed to achieve a similar effect. They're deleting the gun perks, but that will just end up meaning the shooting will start as it was with a leveled up character, not suddenly be super good. I think spending the time and money on a more substantial rework was warranted because Bioware has done nothing but massively lose public trust and interest since ME3. Large reworks that add back missing features or all new features are also more popular now than they have ever been (Ps5 Demon's Souls, Halo 2 Anniversary, Ps4 Shadow of the Colossus, Link's Awakening for Switch, Gears of War Ultimate, and of course FF7 Remake). I don't think their work on this is nothing or worthless, I just think that this halfway step will leave a lot of new customers and fans who only played one of the later games unimpressed.
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DHSChase lizards.....bark at donkeys..Registered Userregular
We all want more decent options but the reality is that that falls far beyond simple remastering and model-texture updates, and working actual content back into the game engine akin to developing an actual expansion to the trilogy (incl. creating new content for the sequels to make the "restored" content actually meaningful) honestly sounds like a shitshow
The weakness of this approach is that people are going to play ME1 and remember that... it kinda sucks in a lot of ways. Better textures won't make the inventory or worse combat any better.
They're doing more than just "better textures" though...
they literally are fixing both the combat and inventory. not overhauling but they are marked improvements on the existing systems.
that's way more than an uprez.
Calling it fixes is a massive overstatement. Like, you can use any weapon as any class... but you could already do that, it just took an achievement unlock. The inventory is better... but mods existed to achieve a similar effect. They're deleting the gun perks, but that will just end up meaning the shooting will start as it was with a leveled up character, not suddenly be super good. I think spending the time and money on a more substantial rework was warranted because Bioware has done nothing but massively lose public trust and interest since ME3. Large reworks that add back missing features or all new features are also more popular now than they have ever been (Ps5 Demon's Souls, Halo 2 Anniversary, Ps4 Shadow of the Colossus, Link's Awakening for Switch, Gears of War Ultimate, and of course FF7 Remake). I don't think their work on this is nothing or worthless, I just think that this halfway step will leave a lot of new customers and fans who only played one of the later games unimpressed.
that's the double edged sword, because the lost trust means low sales which means less budget. to even make Mass Effect 1 play like two, is to remake the game from ground up. all those other games are entries in series that either have universal acclaim or no real drop off in sales.
i agree that the best possible option, would be to remake ME1, bottom up from the best version of the engine or a modern version. the fact is they don't have the publisher's faith either, and divorcing judgment from EA for all the reasons you would, you can't really blame them for not investing the AAA budget to redevelop from ground up that game from a developer with two recent flops (which yes I know is probably EA's fault but beside the point here). there's no reason to risk that.
so this is what they can do, and it is honestly the next best thing, hopefully.
i think you're still selling short the work that's been done, and also that ME1 isn't really that bad, it wasn't a nonfunctional game just a bit awkward. i don't think that this is meant to sell very many new people, but prove that the IP still has a significant fanbase by giving them the games that won them that fanbase, presented well in a low friction package to replay. just because something could've been modded in doesn't make it not a selling point because most people played it on a console without mods, which again makes it a selling point.
would a real remake, of the whole original trilogy been preferable, and more than likely could've sold enough to justify itself? i believe probably yeah, i just see the position bioware and EA are in and know it wasn't gonna happen.
"Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
Discounting improvements just because there are mods that do the same thing is kinda goosey. There's a bunch of us that play on consoles and just never have access to that stuff.
+15
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Also, I enjoyed both DA:I and parts of Anthem, so my trust isn't exactly lost, it's just not day 1 on new stuff. I'm pretty sure I know I'll like Mass Effect.
Like, if they revealed a Bioshock Remaster, with 1 having the gameplay improvements of 2, I'd buy that in a hot minute, even though I know the final boss fight is totally mediocre.
Discounting improvements just because there are mods that do the same thing is kinda goosey. There's a bunch of us that play on consoles and just never have access to that stuff.
I think this might be a misunderstanding. I'm not saying "those aren't real improvements because people have seen them already." I'm saying "the game isn't up to par with 2 and 3 mechanically, even with similar improvements in play, we know this for a fact because of mods."
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2021
While I agree I would have much rather played a remake with additional content I don't really think this will "bite" them.
2021 is the console transition year for this gen. Not a lot of big titles being released and folks are looking for things to play. And it's been 9 years since ME3 was released.
So if you're gonna release a remaster this is the best time to do it.
The only thing I'm disappointed not to hear is a reworked paragon/renegade system in ME1 and ME2 to match ME3's combined approach.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
A lot of the problems with ME1's shooting stem from the fact that at early levels, weapon bloom quickly makes them wildly inaccurate and it takes way too long for your accuracy to recover. Once you've got a weapon skill maxed, the boost to accuracy is enough to make that pretty much a non-issue. So, I think making weapons just handle like you've maxed their skill all the time actually will make the game feel significantly better.
+4
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Taking muzzle sway off of sniper rifles in particular will make a huge difference
Mass Effect Legendary Edition has gone GOLD! It's been quite a journey - time to celebrate briefly. Maybe even dance a little... if that's you're thing. #MassEffect #Legendary
Amazing that a professional writer can make such an elementary error in a tweet... but still, I will forgive for the choice of GIF.
Also it's still weird to me that going gold is even a noteworthy thing any more in this age of day-zero patches, even if discs need mastering. (Also, I wonder if this'll be a multi-disc release on physical? It's likely to crack the 100GB barrier...)
Mass Effect Legendary Edition has gone GOLD! It's been quite a journey - time to celebrate briefly. Maybe even dance a little... if that's you're thing. #MassEffect #Legendary
Amazing that a professional writer can make such an elementary error in a tweet... but still, I will forgive for the choice of GIF.
Also it's still weird to me that going gold is even a noteworthy thing any more in this age of day-zero patches, even if discs need mastering. (Also, I wonder if this'll be a multi-disc release on physical? It's likely to crack the 100GB barrier...)
But still! It's getting closer...
As a professional editor, who also sometimes writes: it's the *editor's job* to fix that stuff. The writer's job is to focus on the writing. They are very very VERY very V E R Y different things (and actually, copyediting -- which is what you're actually talking about here -- is completely different than developmental editing)
(As an editor, I hate writers, and I hate writing, but also sometimes someone goes, "we'll give you money to write this specific thing" and I go F I N E )
The only thing I'm disappointed not to hear is a reworked paragon/renegade system in ME1 and ME2 to match ME3's combined approach.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
That is an entirely different stat metric that would drastically alter the way the narrative is built around the paragon-renegade checks, that sounds to me like... remake levels of work lol
I mean in a perfect world we'd get all three games rebuilt mechanically to match ME3's overall rhythms and flow but they would essentially be building new games at that point
We all want more decent options but the reality is that that falls far beyond simple remastering and model-texture updates, and working actual content back into the game engine akin to developing an actual expansion to the trilogy (incl. creating new content for the sequels to make the "restored" content actually meaningful) honestly sounds like a shitshow
The weakness of this approach is that people are going to play ME1 and remember that... it kinda sucks in a lot of ways. Better textures won't make the inventory or worse combat any better.
They're doing more than just "better textures" though...
they literally are fixing both the combat and inventory. not overhauling but they are marked improvements on the existing systems.
that's way more than an uprez.
Good to hear, because Combat and inventory in ME:1 was... not great.
Mass Effect Legendary Edition has gone GOLD! It's been quite a journey - time to celebrate briefly. Maybe even dance a little... if that's you're thing. #MassEffect #Legendary
Amazing that a professional writer can make such an elementary error in a tweet... but still, I will forgive for the choice of GIF.
Also it's still weird to me that going gold is even a noteworthy thing any more in this age of day-zero patches, even if discs need mastering. (Also, I wonder if this'll be a multi-disc release on physical? It's likely to crack the 100GB barrier...)
But still! It's getting closer...
As a professional editor, who also sometimes writes: it's the *editor's job* to fix that stuff. The writer's job is to focus on the writing. They are very very VERY very V E R Y different things (and actually, copyediting -- which is what you're actually talking about here -- is completely different than developmental editing)
(As an editor, I hate writers, and I hate writing, but also sometimes someone goes, "we'll give you money to write this specific thing" and I go F I N E )
I don't know if a tweet would ever pass through an editor's hands... but you're right, of course.
The only thing I'm disappointed not to hear is a reworked paragon/renegade system in ME1 and ME2 to match ME3's combined approach.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
That is an entirely different stat metric that would drastically alter the way the narrative is built around the paragon-renegade checks, that sounds to me like... remake levels of work lol
I mean in a perfect world we'd get all three games rebuilt mechanically to match ME3's overall rhythms and flow but they would essentially be building new games at that point
Calling it remake levels of work sounds like a massive exaggeration.
From a technical perspective, it's adding two numbers together for every persuasion check.
From a balance perspective, it makes persuasion checks a bit easier, which doesn't seem like a issue? The devs announced that a number of persuasion checks are being made easier in the remake anyway. Just like in ME3, the roleplaying flexibility is well worth any tradeoff.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. It could be annoying how you'd be locked out of a number of dialog options in ME2 if you didn't go hard for one path or the other.
And even then if you did certain things too early.
Taking muzzle sway off of sniper rifles in particular will make a huge difference
It doesn't seem to have stuck with people as much, probably because less classes use them and because it doesn't have that striking "hold LT to get motion sickness" aspect to it, but assault rifles also get it really bad. The early assault rifles really are like, you can fire one short burst and then you're going to be inaccurate for like the entire rest of the fight.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
The only thing I'm disappointed not to hear is a reworked paragon/renegade system in ME1 and ME2 to match ME3's combined approach.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
That is an entirely different stat metric that would drastically alter the way the narrative is built around the paragon-renegade checks, that sounds to me like... remake levels of work lol
I mean in a perfect world we'd get all three games rebuilt mechanically to match ME3's overall rhythms and flow but they would essentially be building new games at that point
Calling it remake levels of work sounds like a massive exaggeration.
From a technical perspective, it's adding two numbers together for every persuasion check.
From a balance perspective, it makes persuasion checks a bit easier, which doesn't seem like a issue? The devs announced that a number of persuasion checks are being made easier in the remake anyway. Just like in ME3, the roleplaying flexibility is well worth any tradeoff.
This is pretty presumptive of what the Influence score in Mass Effect 3 was actually for. If Mass Effect 2 or 1 ran off Influence it would basically mean rewriting the checks to read off both combined Paragon and Renegade options rather than just a flat score. This also doesn't take into account the fact that Mass Effect 1 actually has individual Charm and Intimidate stats that the player levels up through the course of the game, which would basically be a whole bunch of redundancy
When I'm referring to 'remake' levels of work I'm really saying that it seems like a non-insignificant, comprehensive change to the way the entire narrative works under the hood, which is basically creeping into remake territory, as opposed to tweaking values for Mako/weapon physics or adding a 'skip loading sequence' button.
The only thing I'm disappointed not to hear is a reworked paragon/renegade system in ME1 and ME2 to match ME3's combined approach.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
That is an entirely different stat metric that would drastically alter the way the narrative is built around the paragon-renegade checks, that sounds to me like... remake levels of work lol
I mean in a perfect world we'd get all three games rebuilt mechanically to match ME3's overall rhythms and flow but they would essentially be building new games at that point
Calling it remake levels of work sounds like a massive exaggeration.
From a technical perspective, it's adding two numbers together for every persuasion check.
From a balance perspective, it makes persuasion checks a bit easier, which doesn't seem like a issue? The devs announced that a number of persuasion checks are being made easier in the remake anyway. Just like in ME3, the roleplaying flexibility is well worth any tradeoff.
This is pretty presumptive of what the Influence score in Mass Effect 3 was actually for. If Mass Effect 2 or 1 ran off Influence it would basically mean rewriting the checks to read off both combined Paragon and Renegade options rather than just a flat score. This also doesn't take into account the fact that Mass Effect 1 actually has individual Charm and Intimidate stats that the player levels up through the course of the game, which would basically be a whole bunch of redundancy
When I'm referring to 'remake' levels of work I'm really saying that it seems like a non-insignificant, comprehensive change to the way the entire narrative works under the hood, which is basically creeping into remake territory, as opposed to tweaking values for Mako/weapon physics or adding a 'skip loading sequence' button.
We'll have to agree to disagree. This doesn't sound above and beyond any tweaks or rebalancing that the developers are already making.
+1
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I look forward to this on gamepass, eventually. After Andromeda and Anthem? Yeaaaaaaa, gonna wait a bit.
After Andromeda and Anthem? These were literally before Andromeda and Anthem. And are fundamentally the same games as they were.
Also the original versions are already on Game Pass (well, the first one is, the other two are on EA Play which you have if you have Ultimate). (Edit: on Xbox, anyway.)
Neither Andromeda nor Anthem shipped in very good condition, and despite this being a re-release I'd totally expect some form of shenanigans.
I mean you do you for sure but this makes no sense to me.
they would have to PROFOUNDLY fuck up to take three mostly stable games and put out a game as buggy as Andromeda. which is possible i guess, but doesn't seem likely based on how transparent they are being on the development and what their goals are.
"Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
+1
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Co-composer Sam Hulick comin' in with the only patch notes that matter
Neither Andromeda nor Anthem shipped in very good condition, and despite this being a re-release I'd totally expect some form of shenanigans.
I mean you do you for sure but this makes no sense to me.
they would have to PROFOUNDLY fuck up to take three mostly stable games and put out a game as buggy as Andromeda. which is possible i guess, but doesn't seem likely based on how transparent they are being on the development and what their goals are.
WCIII remastered says hi.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
+5
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited April 2021
Of note is that BioWare explicitly brought back some of the devs of the original Mass Effect game to assist with bringing the technology forward to the remaster (as well as the distant future sequel), which is an encouraging sign
Posts
I wouldn't go that far, but it sounds like it'll feel a lot better than it did.
A meaningful revamp of the storytelling and narrative itself would basically constitute a remake level of product we probably wouldn't see until 2023
Calling it fixes is a massive overstatement. Like, you can use any weapon as any class... but you could already do that, it just took an achievement unlock. The inventory is better... but mods existed to achieve a similar effect. They're deleting the gun perks, but that will just end up meaning the shooting will start as it was with a leveled up character, not suddenly be super good. I think spending the time and money on a more substantial rework was warranted because Bioware has done nothing but massively lose public trust and interest since ME3. Large reworks that add back missing features or all new features are also more popular now than they have ever been (Ps5 Demon's Souls, Halo 2 Anniversary, Ps4 Shadow of the Colossus, Link's Awakening for Switch, Gears of War Ultimate, and of course FF7 Remake). I don't think their work on this is nothing or worthless, I just think that this halfway step will leave a lot of new customers and fans who only played one of the later games unimpressed.
that's the double edged sword, because the lost trust means low sales which means less budget. to even make Mass Effect 1 play like two, is to remake the game from ground up. all those other games are entries in series that either have universal acclaim or no real drop off in sales.
i agree that the best possible option, would be to remake ME1, bottom up from the best version of the engine or a modern version. the fact is they don't have the publisher's faith either, and divorcing judgment from EA for all the reasons you would, you can't really blame them for not investing the AAA budget to redevelop from ground up that game from a developer with two recent flops (which yes I know is probably EA's fault but beside the point here). there's no reason to risk that.
so this is what they can do, and it is honestly the next best thing, hopefully.
i think you're still selling short the work that's been done, and also that ME1 isn't really that bad, it wasn't a nonfunctional game just a bit awkward. i don't think that this is meant to sell very many new people, but prove that the IP still has a significant fanbase by giving them the games that won them that fanbase, presented well in a low friction package to replay. just because something could've been modded in doesn't make it not a selling point because most people played it on a console without mods, which again makes it a selling point.
would a real remake, of the whole original trilogy been preferable, and more than likely could've sold enough to justify itself? i believe probably yeah, i just see the position bioware and EA are in and know it wasn't gonna happen.
Like, if they revealed a Bioshock Remaster, with 1 having the gameplay improvements of 2, I'd buy that in a hot minute, even though I know the final boss fight is totally mediocre.
I think this might be a misunderstanding. I'm not saying "those aren't real improvements because people have seen them already." I'm saying "the game isn't up to par with 2 and 3 mechanically, even with similar improvements in play, we know this for a fact because of mods."
2021 is the console transition year for this gen. Not a lot of big titles being released and folks are looking for things to play. And it's been 9 years since ME3 was released.
So if you're gonna release a remaster this is the best time to do it.
I'm totally happy with what we're getting for ME1. Some rebalancing, inventory improvements, and the various tweaks to make the shooting feel better have me excited to play through it again.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Amazing that a professional writer can make such an elementary error in a tweet... but still, I will forgive for the choice of GIF.
Also it's still weird to me that going gold is even a noteworthy thing any more in this age of day-zero patches, even if discs need mastering. (Also, I wonder if this'll be a multi-disc release on physical? It's likely to crack the 100GB barrier...)
But still! It's getting closer...
Steam | XBL
As a professional editor, who also sometimes writes: it's the *editor's job* to fix that stuff. The writer's job is to focus on the writing. They are very very VERY very V E R Y different things (and actually, copyediting -- which is what you're actually talking about here -- is completely different than developmental editing)
(As an editor, I hate writers, and I hate writing, but also sometimes someone goes, "we'll give you money to write this specific thing" and I go F I N E )
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
That is an entirely different stat metric that would drastically alter the way the narrative is built around the paragon-renegade checks, that sounds to me like... remake levels of work lol
I mean in a perfect world we'd get all three games rebuilt mechanically to match ME3's overall rhythms and flow but they would essentially be building new games at that point
Good to hear, because Combat and inventory in ME:1 was... not great.
I don't know if a tweet would ever pass through an editor's hands... but you're right, of course.
Steam | XBL
(sorry, not sorry)
Calling it remake levels of work sounds like a massive exaggeration.
From a technical perspective, it's adding two numbers together for every persuasion check.
From a balance perspective, it makes persuasion checks a bit easier, which doesn't seem like a issue? The devs announced that a number of persuasion checks are being made easier in the remake anyway. Just like in ME3, the roleplaying flexibility is well worth any tradeoff.
And even then if you did certain things too early.
This is pretty presumptive of what the Influence score in Mass Effect 3 was actually for. If Mass Effect 2 or 1 ran off Influence it would basically mean rewriting the checks to read off both combined Paragon and Renegade options rather than just a flat score. This also doesn't take into account the fact that Mass Effect 1 actually has individual Charm and Intimidate stats that the player levels up through the course of the game, which would basically be a whole bunch of redundancy
When I'm referring to 'remake' levels of work I'm really saying that it seems like a non-insignificant, comprehensive change to the way the entire narrative works under the hood, which is basically creeping into remake territory, as opposed to tweaking values for Mako/weapon physics or adding a 'skip loading sequence' button.
We'll have to agree to disagree. This doesn't sound above and beyond any tweaks or rebalancing that the developers are already making.
happy belated? or something
Youtube assures me it's in high-res but some of those Mako clips are so blurry.
A couple shots are really clean, like the close-up model comparisons.
Steam | XBL
After Andromeda and Anthem? These were literally before Andromeda and Anthem. And are fundamentally the same games as they were.
Also the original versions are already on Game Pass (well, the first one is, the other two are on EA Play which you have if you have Ultimate). (Edit: on Xbox, anyway.)
Steam | XBL
I mean you do you for sure but this makes no sense to me.
they would have to PROFOUNDLY fuck up to take three mostly stable games and put out a game as buggy as Andromeda. which is possible i guess, but doesn't seem likely based on how transparent they are being on the development and what their goals are.
WCIII remastered says hi.