Penny Arcade - Comic - Impactful

Dog

Penny Arcade - Comic - Impactful

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

Aldo

I laughed at the comic, but then I logged into Gems of War to grab my PvP glory, Faction Renown rewards, 4 different kinds of keys and play a few rounds to unlock more copies of a buff pet.

Evil_Monkeys

Oh god...a cool anime MMO with a gacha component. I think if you combine that many addictive qualities together you have to register it as a drug.

Darkewolfe

The game also has a season pass after you hit level 20. This thing is crammed full of current monetization strategies.

I'm surprised I haven't had anyone try to sell me a hat so far though.

T-Danger

Darkewolfe wrote: »

The game also has a season pass after you hit level 20. This thing is crammed full of current monetization strategies.

I'm surprised I haven't had anyone try to sell me a hat so far though.

What really pisses me off about these monetization strategies is that none of them seem to trust the user to just give them money in exchange for a in-game item.

You want to buy that nice looking model or skin? Oh you can't just buy it. You have to wait several hours until it randomly appears in the in-game store. Or buy a pass that gives you the item, so long as you complete a set of arbitary tasks in the game. And its all geared toward people who apparently have nothing better to do than play the game for entire days at a time. is

Rocket League is a major sinner at the moment. Remember when you could just buy all those cool licenced cars like Knight Rider and the Delorean from the E-shop? Not any more, unless you come across them in a random blueprint.

It's maddening, because any real life business that operated like this would go bust quickly, but they seem to keep thriving in things like Fortnite.
Just let me buy the things I want without all this bullshit in the way.

MichaelLC

T-Danger wrote: »

It's maddening, because any real life business that operated like this would go bust quickly, but they seem to keep thriving in things like Fortnite.
Just let me buy the things I want without all this bullshit in the way.

Businesses are operating on this model; see launch sneakers/consoles/phones, etc. Or "pop up" store or limited releases of Hidden Valley Ranch Wine or whatever the Hell that are designed purely for the bragging rights to get people to advertise for you and pay you for that privilege.

Is already being normalized that you should want something because of its artificial scarcity, not because of its quality or value.

Nightslyr

Evil_Monkeys wrote: »

Oh god...a cool anime MMO with a gacha component. I think if you combine that many addictive qualities together you have to register it as a drug.

It's not a MMO, but a Breath of the Wild clone with gacha mechanics. A.K.A. Breath of the Waifu.

Bropocalypse

T-Danger wrote: »

You want to buy that nice looking model or skin? Oh you can't just buy it. You have to wait several hours until it randomly appears in the in-game store. Or buy a pass that gives you the item, so long as you complete a set of arbitary tasks in the game. And its all geared toward people who apparently have nothing better to do than play the game for entire days at a time.

It's the opposite. The idea is to *force* you to play for several days so that it becomes a habit, thus exposing you more towards its own advertisements and marketing. Getting rewards randomly is the most habit-forming mechanic there is.

homogenized

Bropocalypse wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

You want to buy that nice looking model or skin? Oh you can't just buy it. You have to wait several hours until it randomly appears in the in-game store. Or buy a pass that gives you the item, so long as you complete a set of arbitary tasks in the game. And its all geared toward people who apparently have nothing better to do than play the game for entire days at a time.

It's the opposite. The idea is to *force* you to play for several days so that it becomes a habit, thus exposing you more towards its own advertisements and marketing. Getting rewards randomly is the most habit-forming mechanic there is.

I'm surprised I never connected variable reinforcement schedules to "random drop" mechanics until I read this comment.

Quid

T-Danger wrote: »

Darkewolfe wrote: »

The game also has a season pass after you hit level 20. This thing is crammed full of current monetization strategies.

I'm surprised I haven't had anyone try to sell me a hat so far though.

What really pisses me off about these monetization strategies is that none of them seem to trust the user to just give them money in exchange for a in-game item.

You want to buy that nice looking model or skin? Oh you can't just buy it. You have to wait several hours until it randomly appears in the in-game store. Or buy a pass that gives you the item, so long as you complete a set of arbitary tasks in the game. And its all geared toward people who apparently have nothing better to do than play the game for entire days at a time. is

Rocket League is a major sinner at the moment. Remember when you could just buy all those cool licenced cars like Knight Rider and the Delorean from the E-shop? Not any more, unless you come across them in a random blueprint.

It's maddening, because any real life business that operated like this would go bust quickly, but they seem to keep thriving in things like Fortnite.
Just let me buy the things I want without all this bullshit in the way.

That's how gambling works.

KagatoAC

Eh, still enjoying it for what it is, and I'll never spend a dime unless at some point I decide it really worth the point of entry of a game for me. The Gacha portion of it has yet to make me go "oh i gotta have that, Now!"

MichaelLC

homogenized wrote: »

Bropocalypse wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

You want to buy that nice looking model or skin? Oh you can't just buy it. You have to wait several hours until it randomly appears in the in-game store. Or buy a pass that gives you the item, so long as you complete a set of arbitary tasks in the game. And its all geared toward people who apparently have nothing better to do than play the game for entire days at a time.

It's the opposite. The idea is to *force* you to play for several days so that it becomes a habit, thus exposing you more towards its own advertisements and marketing. Getting rewards randomly is the most habit-forming mechanic there is.

I'm surprised I never connected variable reinforcement schedules to "random drop" mechanics until I read this comment.

To get all serious, it's why people stay in abusive relationships too.
"Oh they got me flowers today, I'll forgive them for hitting me yesterday."

See my TED Talk, Everything I Know About Love I Learned From The Joker and Harley Quinn.

ironzerg

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Nightslyr

ironzerg wrote: »

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Yeah, those 1% raid drops sure were a ton better :rotate:

ironzerg

Nightslyr wrote: »

ironzerg wrote: »

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Yeah, those 1% raid drops sure were a ton better :rotate:

As opposed to swiping your credit card for a 0.01% chance of something cool. /shrug

Preacher

Nightslyr wrote: »

ironzerg wrote: »

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Yeah, those 1% raid drops sure were a ton better :rotate:

Compared to literally selling them to you, yes it was better.

Nightslyr

ironzerg wrote: »

Nightslyr wrote: »

ironzerg wrote: »

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Yeah, those 1% raid drops sure were a ton better :rotate:

As opposed to swiping your credit card for a 0.01% chance of something cool. /shrug

Given the time taken to do a raid (finding a group, the learning phase, the farming phase, dealing with the inevitable interpersonal drama, etc.), and that you need to pay about $15/month for that 'privilege' plus whatever each expansion costs...

I honestly don't see much of a difference. You're still paying for a really low chance of obtaining a certain configuration of data and pixels.

Steel Angel

Nightslyr wrote: »

ironzerg wrote: »

Nightslyr wrote: »

ironzerg wrote: »

I remember the days back when we use to kill monsters in MMORPGS, collected gold, and got nice loot for our characters. Not as clumsy or random as gacha; an elegant system for a more civilized time.

Yeah, those 1% raid drops sure were a ton better :rotate:

As opposed to swiping your credit card for a 0.01% chance of something cool. /shrug

Given the time taken to do a raid (finding a group, the learning phase, the farming phase, dealing with the inevitable interpersonal drama, etc.), and that you need to pay about $15/month for that 'privilege' plus whatever each expansion costs...

I honestly don't see much of a difference. You're still paying for a really low chance of obtaining a certain configuration of data and pixels.

Presumably you'd enjoy the time spent in the game even if you didn't get the drop you wanted so you still got something out of it. If you weren't enjoying it then you probably should be spending your time and money on something else.

Enlong

Look. If you want to conserve your Mythril, and especially if you don’t want to use Gems, you gotta keep track of your Anima Lenses. If you spend them right, you’ll be able to selectively get the Relics for a lot of different Soul Breaks needed to outfit your heroes. Of course, Anima Lenses+ can only be acquired by spending Mythril, but those are only used for Hero Abilities you find st the end of the Record Board. You won’t need those until you’re ass-deep in the Magicite mines. And by then, you’ll probably have a bunch of USBs, BSBs, and maybe even some AASBs. And then there’s Artifact Stones, but that’s for later.

H3Knuckles

Enlong wrote: »

Look. If you want to conserve your Mythril, and especially if you don’t want to use Gems, you gotta keep track of your Anima Lenses. If you spend them right, you’ll be able to selectively get the Relics for a lot of different Soul Breaks needed to outfit your heroes. Of course, Anima Lenses+ can only be acquired by spending Mythril, but those are only used for Hero Abilities you find st the end of the Record Board. You won’t need those until you’re ass-deep in the Magicite mines. And by then, you’ll probably have a bunch of USBs, BSBs, and maybe even some AASBs. And then there’s Artifact Stones, but that’s for later.

The sick thing is your parody example was both more coherent and more reasonable-sounding than some of these kinds of multiple in-game currency/resource grind situations.

Ringo

I just assumed that wasn't parody, it sounds like just about every "games as service" title I've played in the last five years

Lttlefoot

Games are just math now

Darkewolfe

Enlong wrote: »

Look. If you want to conserve your Mythril, and especially if you don’t want to use Gems, you gotta keep track of your Anima Lenses. If you spend them right, you’ll be able to selectively get the Relics for a lot of different Soul Breaks needed to outfit your heroes. Of course, Anima Lenses+ can only be acquired by spending Mythril, but those are only used for Hero Abilities you find st the end of the Record Board. You won’t need those until you’re ass-deep in the Magicite mines. And by then, you’ll probably have a bunch of USBs, BSBs, and maybe even some AASBs. And then there’s Artifact Stones, but that’s for later.

I wasn't sure if this was a parody or just a copy paste from the next game over.

dennis

Poe's Law has come to gaming.

Aldo

Darkewolfe wrote: »

Enlong wrote: »

Look. If you want to conserve your Mythril, and especially if you don’t want to use Gems, you gotta keep track of your Anima Lenses. If you spend them right, you’ll be able to selectively get the Relics for a lot of different Soul Breaks needed to outfit your heroes. Of course, Anima Lenses+ can only be acquired by spending Mythril, but those are only used for Hero Abilities you find st the end of the Record Board. You won’t need those until you’re ass-deep in the Magicite mines. And by then, you’ll probably have a bunch of USBs, BSBs, and maybe even some AASBs. And then there’s Artifact Stones, but that’s for later.

I wasn't sure if this was a parody or just a copy paste from the next game over.

Without looking it up: Final Fantasy Record Keeper?

MarcinMN

dennis wrote: »

Poe's Law has come to gaming.

I feel like I am almost always including a smile or wink emoticon after things I post online. I guess it shows how seriously I take the internet these days.

BillieVee

Darkewolfe wrote: »

I wasn't sure if this was a parody or just a copy paste from the next game over.

I wasn't sure anything in this strip was real until I looked it up. I'm a bit out of touch, I guess.

Zoku Gojira

I picked it up on the strength of some reviews, although they were so kind as to include a warning as to the game’s, to put it kindly because at least it’s not a $60 game heavily monetized on the back end, “sustainability” model.

Might be a “hit it and quit it” kind of deal. But I’ll give it a look.

Madican

H3Knuckles wrote: »

Enlong wrote: »

Look. If you want to conserve your Mythril, and especially if you don’t want to use Gems, you gotta keep track of your Anima Lenses. If you spend them right, you’ll be able to selectively get the Relics for a lot of different Soul Breaks needed to outfit your heroes. Of course, Anima Lenses+ can only be acquired by spending Mythril, but those are only used for Hero Abilities you find st the end of the Record Board. You won’t need those until you’re ass-deep in the Magicite mines. And by then, you’ll probably have a bunch of USBs, BSBs, and maybe even some AASBs. And then there’s Artifact Stones, but that’s for later.

The sick thing is your parody example was both more coherent and more reasonable-sounding than some of these kinds of multiple in-game currency/resource grind situations.

...Parody? That's literally Final Fantasy Record Keeper and it's still only scratching the surface

Enlong

Yes. Albeit with use of some fan-made acronyms.

Showsni

It's all very simple. Spend real money to get Genesis Crystals, spend Genesis Crystals to get Primogems, spend Primogems to get Acquaint Fates or Intertwined Fates. Use Fates to make Wishes to randomly get character or weapons, and which will also give you Stardust or Starglitter, that you can then spend to purchase Fates.

Or just ignore that whole system and use the characters the game gives you for free, which have been working just fine for me so far.

Zoku Gojira

Showsni wrote: »

It's all very simple. Spend real money to get Genesis Crystals, spend Genesis Crystals to get Primogems, spend Primogems to get Acquaint Fates or Intertwined Fates. Use Fates to make Wishes to randomly get character or weapons, and which will also give you Stardust or Starglitter, that you can then spend to purchase Fates.

Or just ignore that whole system and use the characters the game gives you for free, which have been working just fine for me so far.

]

Djiem

Showsni wrote: »

It's all very simple. Spend real money to get Genesis Crystals, spend Genesis Crystals to get Primogems, spend Primogems to get Acquaint Fates or Intertwined Fates. Use Fates to make Wishes to randomly get character or weapons, and which will also give you Stardust or Starglitter, that you can then spend to purchase Fates.

Or just ignore that whole system and use the characters the game gives you for free, which have been working just fine for me so far.

I went with a compromise. I participated in the Wishes to the extent that the game let me do for free, which gave me 3 new characters and a few more weapons of the same quality the game naturally drops.

shadowysea07

ff record keeper wise they give you lots of free stuff so its very easy to play without paying for anything. The main things you'd want and have to go out of your way to get are the blue gems you idiotically have to transform into more blue gems to unlock a characters special ability unique to them. Most of them aren't worth investing in given how scare the blue gems are since those only come from some boss and such battles once or twice a month. And the abilities are at the end of the records boards which not all characters have access to. Adding on to that very few of the characters with record boards have abilities on them. So far the most useful ones I've seen are Rems, ff5 mc. shadows from ff6 is the next one I have my eye on since it bypasses enemies resistance stats. I also want Tyro's which refills the limit break gauge faster but he's much lower priority for me right now. As I want to go for ninja characters since they have fire and wind abilities that bypass resistance.

Limit breaks are a mixed bag but thus far the ones that give reraise/last stand and overstrike 1 bar cost are the best ones to head for. Timed infinite usage of abilities with double activation is another good one but has limited use past the beginning/middle levels of the game. Most of the stronger bosses you won't do much damage to with those. You're better off using limit breaks that have 1 bar cost and break the damage cap usually. Especially since the effect is useless if they ko the character with it.

Instant revive all party members ko'd is another decent one good for emergencies. Pulse of Life on Aerith, Phoenix on Elara are 2 that do it but are limited to one usage. Rosa, Iris, Sarah, Panello and Yuna have them without the usage limit iirc.