Citron Research discontinues short selling research After 20 years of publishing Citron will no longer publish “short reports”. We will focus on giving long side multibagger opportunities for individual investors
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
It’s Wall Street finance being able (having been able) to dictate the rules and benefiting from the little guys being temporarily shut out of the action
RH et al ran into a cash crunch- they’re fine though now, lots of their users were shut out, and yeah hopefully we can get more detail through investigations by relevant bodies
A lot of the stereotypical wall street guys talking to the media seemed to have thought large institutions were involved in the squeeze instead of just retail traders at least after the initial stage
Which if course means that placing retail traders in a "no buy only sell" situation still benefits the entrenched powers on Wall Street, on both sides of the squeeze.
I may believe RH on why they had to halt trading on these stocks...as noted, many other retail trading platforms did as well...but its incredibly convenient that they were unable to get ahead of this issue, given how the incentives align for their major partner entities.
The CEO of RH was on CNBC last night and he was UTTERLY unconvincing, but I may be reading my own viewpoint into it. It just read as standard "business guy gets on and says platitudes to do PR spin control". Even the CNBC guy was kind of calling him on some of it. The problem, as has been noted up thread (and this isn't even just RH, they just happen to be the face of retail trading brokerages right now) was their communication was bullshit, and most retail folks don't know how the sausage is made past "push buy, get stock" (hell I didn't know, and I only know what I've learned from this debacle). Some of the other places that had to halt at least posted something about it.
Citron is probably pissed about this because they were using their "Short Reports" to try to get retail to either join in the shorts, or at least to get them to be scared to long.
I don't know if it's been proven/disproven yet, but also, if RH was indeed forcing people to sell stocks that weren't just margin calls, then still.. fuck em.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
It seems that despite claiming that trading is open for GME on Robinhood, you can't purchase more than 5 GME stocks from them.
Cambiata on
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
It seems that despite claiming that trading is open for GME on Robinhood, you can't purchase more than 5 GME stocks from them.
they didn't outline this specifically in their pr statement yesterday to users, but did say they would be limiting it in some way. So I guess this is what that means.
I don't know if it's been proven/disproven yet, but also, if RH was indeed forcing people to sell stocks that weren't just margin calls, then still.. fuck em.
It was discussed a bit here yesterday, but as far as I know those occurrences were situations where people were trading on unsettled funds. Lots of new "investors" opened RH accounts to try to get in on this and made initial deposits. RH will "loan" you that deposit amount (up to a certain amount?) until it clears through ACH, which is typically like three days. So they were kind of trading on margin without really being aware of it.
Still sucks for those people, but not as nefarious as it might seem.
Lokah Samastah Sukhino Bhavantu
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
It seems that despite claiming that trading is open for GME on Robinhood, you can't purchase more than 5 GME stocks from them.
This person has 850,000 dollars in gamestop right now.
Fucking wow.
What do you suppose the odds are that they are one of the people set to sell at $420.69?
considering he bought 0.69 shares at one point?
Pretty high.
If this person bought 2K shares at 20 bucks that's still $40K risked. But WSB is really into people making incredibly unwise and risky bets so the reaction to this isn't "Holy shit cash out your huge profit!" but "Let it ride!"
Which to a certain extent, yeah maybe I shouldn't feel too bad for someone who has 40K or 100K to lose on Entertainment 720 getting upvotes but I still kinda do. People kill themselves over this shit.
Citron is probably pissed about this because they were using their "Short Reports" to try to get retail to either join in the shorts, or at least to get them to be scared to long.
That seems to be a big part of it yeah, that he was manipulating stock prices down on shorts with very public "reports" and now that well is going to be dry for the foreseeable future because his name is dirt. So now it's all mea culpas and "actually you should know that I'm the good guy here" excuses.
It is possible to think that WSB is a shitty bigoted community that promotes gambling, but also approve of this particular bet they are making and want them to succeed.
WSB started as a shitty, bigoted community.
That seed has had millions and millions of new users join in the past week.
It's hard to say what they even are now.
Personally, I went there out of curiosity and clicked Join, looked around for a few minutes, decided I wasn't interested after all, and forgot to click Leave until just now after looking at this thread (I don't check Reddit much at all).
Who knows how many of these new users pretty much just popped in out of curiosity versus becoming new regular members.
It is possible to think that WSB is a shitty bigoted community that promotes gambling, but also approve of this particular bet they are making and want them to succeed.
WSB started as a shitty, bigoted community.
That seed has had millions and millions of new users join in the past week.
It's hard to say what they even are now.
Personally, I went there out of curiosity and clicked Join, looked around for a few minutes, decided I wasn't interested after all, and forgot to click Leave until just now after looking at this thread (I don't check Reddit much at all).
Who knows how many of these new users pretty much just popped in out of curiosity versus becoming new regular members.
I feel like I've read that generally between 1 and 3% of curious lurkers subsequently join a community
It is possible to think that WSB is a shitty bigoted community that promotes gambling, but also approve of this particular bet they are making and want them to succeed.
WSB started as a shitty, bigoted community.
That seed has had millions and millions of new users join in the past week.
It's hard to say what they even are now.
Personally, I went there out of curiosity and clicked Join, looked around for a few minutes, decided I wasn't interested after all, and forgot to click Leave until just now after looking at this thread (I don't check Reddit much at all).
Who knows how many of these new users pretty much just popped in out of curiosity versus becoming new regular members.
I feel like I've read that generally between 1 and 3% of curious lurkers subsequently join a community
Well, hi to all the curious lurkers reading this then, I guess I’ll talk to you when you post in the holiday forum
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Yeah I mean RH is the most visible but Schwab, TD, Webull, etc also did this shit yesterday and it really shouldn't be allowed.
Schwab, TD, Webull, etc. didn't name themselves after a historical icon known for his heroism on behalf of peasantry. I can definitely understand its users feeling betrayed by a company that actively marketed itself to be the exact opposite of what they have done this week.
So it looks like Robinhood did not prohibit customers from buying GameStop or AMC as part of a conspiracy to protect short sellers. It did it because it literally couldn't afford to let them keep trading. https://t.co/0uFya2zDjr?amp=1
and continuing the thread
Short explanation of why having lots of customers buying GameStop put Robinhood into a cash crunch: Because stock trades don't settle for 2 days, brokerages are required to post capital to cover the risk that a clearinghouse will fail in that period.
The more volatile the underlying stocks are, the more capital you have to post. GME's (and AMC's) stock prices have become incredibly volatile, which meant Robinhood had to put up more of its own money (and it has to use its own money, not client money).
The paradox here is that you'd normally assume that more trading is good for a stock-trading platform. But as a brokerage, Robinhood has to be able to meet those capital requirements. And it clearly got worried that if people just kept buying GME, it wouldn't be able to.
The culprit behind the GameStop buying ban, in other words, seems not to have been a sinister hedge-fund cabal. Instead, disappointing as it is from a dramatic perspective, the culprit seems to have been government- and industry-imposed capital requirements.
Here is a longer, more detailed thread explaining exactly how the capital requirements are set, and why Robinhood, et. al., found itself facing a liquidity crunch. Well worth reading if you're interested.
That would not explain why a huge number of other platforms restricted trading on those stocks.
I ate an engineer
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I believe the phrase I've been grasping for is "the appearance of impropriety." It's not a "conspiracy" to talk about how the timing of that stuff looks, and why it's good for the SEC to investigate it. Could it just end up to be a money shortage as they have reported? Sure! It could also, after investigation, show that there were additional things going on.
Especially if, as rumored, platforms like Think or Swim still allowed trades on the blocked stocks to people who were rich enough.
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
RobinHood also did not provide that explanation when their CEO was live last night, and we have multiple random billionaires in interviews (who, granted, may not know anything specific) more or less openly stating that the game should be rigged in favor of hedge funds and closing trades is good because it prevents losses (implied: for shorts).It is possible Robinhood was also cash poor, but at best that appears to be a happy justification for stopping trading.
E: Like, if Robinhood really couldn't allow trades due to regulatory requirements for cash on hand, why the hell is that coming out via a Twitter investigation rather than the CEO who had a national platform and couldn't do anything but flounder about saying "you can trade other stocks" and dodging questions?
So it looks like Robinhood did not prohibit customers from buying GameStop or AMC as part of a conspiracy to protect short sellers. It did it because it literally couldn't afford to let them keep trading. https://t.co/0uFya2zDjr?amp=1
and continuing the thread
Short explanation of why having lots of customers buying GameStop put Robinhood into a cash crunch: Because stock trades don't settle for 2 days, brokerages are required to post capital to cover the risk that a clearinghouse will fail in that period.
The more volatile the underlying stocks are, the more capital you have to post. GME's (and AMC's) stock prices have become incredibly volatile, which meant Robinhood had to put up more of its own money (and it has to use its own money, not client money).
The paradox here is that you'd normally assume that more trading is good for a stock-trading platform. But as a brokerage, Robinhood has to be able to meet those capital requirements. And it clearly got worried that if people just kept buying GME, it wouldn't be able to.
The culprit behind the GameStop buying ban, in other words, seems not to have been a sinister hedge-fund cabal. Instead, disappointing as it is from a dramatic perspective, the culprit seems to have been government- and industry-imposed capital requirements.
Here is a longer, more detailed thread explaining exactly how the capital requirements are set, and why Robinhood, et. al., found itself facing a liquidity crunch. Well worth reading if you're interested.
If they didn't have cash, how were they able to allow buying other stocks?
If that is the reason, why did financial people publicly say that the reason was to protect investors?
The first one can at least be explained by "we see our cash-required line is rapidly approaching all the cash we have. Stopping GME trades will stabilize us because the other trades are nowhere near as big a problem." The latter, and the CEO not mentioning it last night, are more "interesting" questions.
I absolutely can believe that RH story while also absolutely believing it means jack dick, it’s still a small number of firms and people benefiting which is how it always fucking goes
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
If they didn't have cash, how were they able to allow buying other stocks?
If that is the reason, why did financial people publicly say that the reason was to protect investors?
The first one can at least be explained by "we see our cash-required line is rapidly approaching all the cash we have. Stopping GME trades will stabilize us because the other trades are nowhere near as big a problem." The latter, and the CEO not mentioning it last night, are more "interesting" questions.
The multitude of bad actions throughout the week and previous weeks, in addition to the Citadel tie-in, bankrupts any benefit of the doubt that we should extend to Robinhood, or the other financial institutions.
They're grasping at straws to try and find a palatable fig leaf to hide their malicious intent.
It is possible to think that WSB is a shitty bigoted community that promotes gambling, but also approve of this particular bet they are making and want them to succeed.
WSB started as a shitty, bigoted community.
That seed has had millions and millions of new users join in the past week.
It's hard to say what they even are now.
Personally, I went there out of curiosity and clicked Join, looked around for a few minutes, decided I wasn't interested after all, and forgot to click Leave until just now after looking at this thread (I don't check Reddit much at all).
Who knows how many of these new users pretty much just popped in out of curiosity versus becoming new regular members.
I feel like I've read that generally between 1 and 3% of curious lurkers subsequently join a community
Reddit, however, is somewhat different in that the communities one is a part of makes up their main page.
If someone isn’t interested in what a community has to say, then one as active as WSB would be a wall of spam drowning out posts from games they’re into or political stuff or pics of cats doing funny things, etc.
The nature of the platform doesn’t prohibit users from following a vast array of topics, but if one of those topics is drowning out all other info for them (unless they abandon their main page and strictly go to each subreddit one at a time), I imagine the volume and annoyance would be present for many.
I know I’ve abandoned noisy communities that weren’t seeing a fraction of the avalanche this one is.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Posts
On my sleeve, let the runway start
It’s Wall Street finance being able (having been able) to dictate the rules and benefiting from the little guys being temporarily shut out of the action
RH et al ran into a cash crunch- they’re fine though now, lots of their users were shut out, and yeah hopefully we can get more detail through investigations by relevant bodies
eat shit, citron
Which if course means that placing retail traders in a "no buy only sell" situation still benefits the entrenched powers on Wall Street, on both sides of the squeeze.
I may believe RH on why they had to halt trading on these stocks...as noted, many other retail trading platforms did as well...but its incredibly convenient that they were unable to get ahead of this issue, given how the incentives align for their major partner entities.
They only restricted the peasants.
IMO, an even worse move.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
On my sleeve, let the runway start
they didn't outline this specifically in their pr statement yesterday to users, but did say they would be limiting it in some way. So I guess this is what that means.
It was discussed a bit here yesterday, but as far as I know those occurrences were situations where people were trading on unsettled funds. Lots of new "investors" opened RH accounts to try to get in on this and made initial deposits. RH will "loan" you that deposit amount (up to a certain amount?) until it clears through ACH, which is typically like three days. So they were kind of trading on margin without really being aware of it.
Still sucks for those people, but not as nefarious as it might seem.
This person has 850,000 dollars in gamestop right now.
Fucking wow.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
They put out a news item this morning saying they were limiting the number of shares you can buy on certain securities and listed them.
What do you suppose the odds are that they are one of the people set to sell at $420.69?
On my sleeve, let the runway start
I really don't envy the accountant assigned to investigate and report on the motives of WSB.
considering he bought 0.69 shares at one point?
Pretty high.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
(e: Feels like) more market manipulation to reduce the downside these hedge funds are going to realize.
If this person bought 2K shares at 20 bucks that's still $40K risked. But WSB is really into people making incredibly unwise and risky bets so the reaction to this isn't "Holy shit cash out your huge profit!" but "Let it ride!"
Which to a certain extent, yeah maybe I shouldn't feel too bad for someone who has 40K or 100K to lose on Entertainment 720 getting upvotes but I still kinda do. People kill themselves over this shit.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
After yesterday's fuckery I have no idea what's going on, but as of Wednesday a flat friday would be a win for the small guys.
It's really looking like the plan now is just to sit on it and quietly close some positions out when the losses aren't too egregious.
That seems to be a big part of it yeah, that he was manipulating stock prices down on shorts with very public "reports" and now that well is going to be dry for the foreseeable future because his name is dirt. So now it's all mea culpas and "actually you should know that I'm the good guy here" excuses.
Personally, I went there out of curiosity and clicked Join, looked around for a few minutes, decided I wasn't interested after all, and forgot to click Leave until just now after looking at this thread (I don't check Reddit much at all).
Who knows how many of these new users pretty much just popped in out of curiosity versus becoming new regular members.
I feel like I've read that generally between 1 and 3% of curious lurkers subsequently join a community
Well, hi to all the curious lurkers reading this then, I guess I’ll talk to you when you post in the holiday forum
Schwab, TD, Webull, etc. didn't name themselves after a historical icon known for his heroism on behalf of peasantry. I can definitely understand its users feeling betrayed by a company that actively marketed itself to be the exact opposite of what they have done this week.
NYT financial reporter and continuing the thread
The conspiracy stuff has been pretty clearly a narrative in search of facts if you looked into it
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Especially if, as rumored, platforms like Think or Swim still allowed trades on the blocked stocks to people who were rich enough.
On my sleeve, let the runway start
E: Like, if Robinhood really couldn't allow trades due to regulatory requirements for cash on hand, why the hell is that coming out via a Twitter investigation rather than the CEO who had a national platform and couldn't do anything but flounder about saying "you can trade other stocks" and dodging questions?
If that is the reason, why did financial people publicly say that the reason was to protect investors?
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If you can't afford
Then you fucking halt ALL trading on your platform, not this pick and choose shit
The first one can at least be explained by "we see our cash-required line is rapidly approaching all the cash we have. Stopping GME trades will stabilize us because the other trades are nowhere near as big a problem." The latter, and the CEO not mentioning it last night, are more "interesting" questions.
I mean, I will grant it is plausible, but I have no particular reason to trust them implicitly. This situation demands further investigation.
The multitude of bad actions throughout the week and previous weeks, in addition to the Citadel tie-in, bankrupts any benefit of the doubt that we should extend to Robinhood, or the other financial institutions.
They're grasping at straws to try and find a palatable fig leaf to hide their malicious intent.
Reddit, however, is somewhat different in that the communities one is a part of makes up their main page.
If someone isn’t interested in what a community has to say, then one as active as WSB would be a wall of spam drowning out posts from games they’re into or political stuff or pics of cats doing funny things, etc.
The nature of the platform doesn’t prohibit users from following a vast array of topics, but if one of those topics is drowning out all other info for them (unless they abandon their main page and strictly go to each subreddit one at a time), I imagine the volume and annoyance would be present for many.
I know I’ve abandoned noisy communities that weren’t seeing a fraction of the avalanche this one is.