BREAKING: President Biden condemns Kellogg's plans to permanently replace striking workers, calling it an "an existential attack on the union and its members’ jobs and livelihoods."
Huh! Wasn't expecting Biden to weigh in on this, at least not so quickly.
I'm just baffled that "you won't be able to negotiate for yourself!" is a compelling argument. I've never worked in a job that could be union eligible where I thought I could negotiate better pay, benefits, or working conditions. Hell, with my personality, "you won't have to negotiate for yourself" is a very pro-union message...
It's an altogether too common mentality in programmerland, thanks to the "rockstar" mentality endemic in the field.
I mean, programming is also a field where individual skill and knowledge plays a large part, and means different people can have very different values to a team. This isn't the same thing as being a 'rockstar' programmer who doesn't play well with a team. A programmer is not a commodity, and some of the worst jobs I've had were ones where managers thought they were.
I definitely would not want to be put into a one size fits all box with the rest of my teammates in terms of job responsibilities and compensation - not that a union has to be like that. Athletes and actors have unions too, and they definitely negotiate individually.
I'm just baffled that "you won't be able to negotiate for yourself!" is a compelling argument. I've never worked in a job that could be union eligible where I thought I could negotiate better pay, benefits, or working conditions. Hell, with my personality, "you won't have to negotiate for yourself" is a very pro-union message...
There are a LOT of people who think that self-negotiation is important and it's a "job skill", on both sides.
There are a LOT of people who think vaccines are poison.
Not sure if arguing with me or agreeing, cuz yes, a lot of people are silly on both of these two things.
BREAKING: President Biden condemns Kellogg's plans to permanently replace striking workers, calling it an "an existential attack on the union and its members’ jobs and livelihoods."
Huh! Wasn't expecting Biden to weigh in on this, at least not so quickly.
It's a large union in a battleground state.
While I think the President is bad on a ton of labor policy, he is very good at working head tables and making their members feel heard. I know someone who has been there in that capacity when he was both VP and President and while the Democrats have been fickle friends they say he's great when the cameras are off.
I told earlier how Gen Zrs crashed Kellogg’s website by submitting bogus applications online when it sought job apps from strike breakers to replace union workers. UPDATE: one of them wrote a program which uses random data to submit bogus applications to Kellogg’s 24 hrs a day
Kurt Eichenwald is an author and journalist.
Part of me has always had an issue with 'hacktivism' as it's sort of been used to describe some pretty shitty things. This seems to be one that I fully agree with - though I guess it's technically a borderline denial of service maybe.
Workers also told us that Kellogg's had to call in help from Ohio to put the train back on the tracks because no workers from Michigan would cross the picket line.
A More Perfect Union is a twitter feed devoted to Union coverage
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"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
I'm just baffled that "you won't be able to negotiate for yourself!" is a compelling argument. I've never worked in a job that could be union eligible where I thought I could negotiate better pay, benefits, or working conditions. Hell, with my personality, "you won't have to negotiate for yourself" is a very pro-union message...
It's an altogether too common mentality in programmerland, thanks to the "rockstar" mentality endemic in the field.
I mean, programming is also a field where individual skill and knowledge plays a large part, and means different people can have very different values to a team. This isn't the same thing as being a 'rockstar' programmer who doesn't play well with a team. A programmer is not a commodity, and some of the worst jobs I've had were ones where managers thought they were.
I definitely would not want to be put into a one size fits all box with the rest of my teammates in terms of job responsibilities and compensation - not that a union has to be like that. Athletes and actors have unions too, and they definitely negotiate individually.
Individual knowledge and skill is a large part of any job. That doesn't make the job not a commodity. It just means there are specialities within the profession and ramp up time on jobs or projects. Programmers are easily replaceable as shown by companies doing so all the time and the effort they go to retain them. The only advantage programmers have is that we're a commodity where demand far exceeds supply.
Unions don't put people in a one size fits all box. There can be both seniority and different titles that reflect differing responsibility and pay.
I'm just baffled that "you won't be able to negotiate for yourself!" is a compelling argument. I've never worked in a job that could be union eligible where I thought I could negotiate better pay, benefits, or working conditions. Hell, with my personality, "you won't have to negotiate for yourself" is a very pro-union message...
It's an altogether too common mentality in programmerland, thanks to the "rockstar" mentality endemic in the field.
I mean, programming is also a field where individual skill and knowledge plays a large part, and means different people can have very different values to a team. This isn't the same thing as being a 'rockstar' programmer who doesn't play well with a team. A programmer is not a commodity, and some of the worst jobs I've had were ones where managers thought they were.
I definitely would not want to be put into a one size fits all box with the rest of my teammates in terms of job responsibilities and compensation - not that a union has to be like that. Athletes and actors have unions too, and they definitely negotiate individually.
Individual knowledge and skill is a large part of any job. That doesn't make the job not a commodity. It just means there are specialities within the profession and ramp up time on jobs or projects. Programmers are easily replaceable as shown by companies doing so all the time and the effort they go to retain them. The only advantage programmers have is that we're a commodity where demand far exceeds supply.
Unions don't put people in a one size fits all box. There can be both seniority and different titles that reflect differing responsibility and pay.
I mean...specialities mean it's not a commodity. Commodities are completely indistinguishable. At any rate, my point is explaining why software developers might actually care about negotiating for themselves. You're here declaring things to me I already stated in my post.
UPDATE: Efforts to replace striking Kellogg's workers has been disastrous, workers tell us.
Scabs wreaked havoc on the factory, most cereals are not being produced, and a delivery train went off the track yesterday.
Workers also told us that Kellogg's had to call in help from Ohio to put the train back on the tracks because no workers from Michigan would cross the picket line.
I think the only way it could be better is if people accepted the job and then intentionally fucked everything up in a sort of "Ernest Works at Kelloggs" type action. That would bring me endless joy.
I think the only way it could be better is if people accepted the job and then intentionally fucked everything up in a sort of "Ernest Works at Kelloggs" type action. That would bring me endless joy.
Bringing back the good old days of twentieth century labor activism!
Gonna laugh if they run into issues where their potential new hires ghost their asses. I recall that being on the rise and I recall someone mentioning that some of that is people using it to get back at shitty employers. Granted, I think most of it is a result of shitty business, mostly all of them, forcing people to be more mercenary. So it's not people fucking with employers, but rather them lining up multiple job offers and jumping to whoever is willing to pay them the most.
Gonna laugh if they run into issues where their potential new hires ghost their asses. I recall that being on the rise and I recall someone mentioning that some of that is people using it to get back at shitty employers. Granted, I think most of it is a result of shitty business, mostly all of them, forcing people to be more mercenary. So it's not people fucking with employers, but rather them lining up multiple job offers and jumping to whoever is willing to pay them the most.
That reminds me of a hilarious post on LinkedIn I once saw of a recruiter for an agency whining about all the people that he worked so hard to line up a job for and they kept ghosting on him. He promptly got squashed under the weight of hundreds of posters pointing out how often job-seekers got ghosted by recruiting agencies even after being assured that there are potential jobs being lined up for them.
The ghosting is practically guaranteed unless Kelloggs is paying the scabs pretty high rates. A lot of the people striking were working crazy hours and had a ton of institutional knowledge; that will be nearly impossible to replace. And if they are paying higher rates, they still basically lose anyway.
And the damage to the public image can't be underestimated. I know I'll never buy a Kellogg's product again.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
The ghosting is practically guaranteed unless Kelloggs is paying the scabs pretty high rates. A lot of the people striking were working crazy hours and had a ton of institutional knowledge; that will be nearly impossible to replace. And if they are paying higher rates, they still basically lose anyway.
And the damage to the public image can't be underestimated. I know I'll never buy a Kellogg's product again.
I would definitely not buy a Kellogg product in the near term. Not even from a strike standpoint, but Simply because you know there is absolutely no QC going on right now. Who knows what is in the food they are sending out. I don’t want to be hospital case 1 in Kellogg scab food recall debacle.
Gonna laugh if they run into issues where their potential new hires ghost their asses. I recall that being on the rise and I recall someone mentioning that some of that is people using it to get back at shitty employers. Granted, I think most of it is a result of shitty business, mostly all of them, forcing people to be more mercenary. So it's not people fucking with employers, but rather them lining up multiple job offers and jumping to whoever is willing to pay them the most.
That reminds me of a hilarious post on LinkedIn I once saw of a recruiter for an agency whining about all the people that he worked so hard to line up a job for and they kept ghosting on him. He promptly got squashed under the weight of hundreds of posters pointing out how often job-seekers got ghosted by recruiting agencies even after being assured that there are potential jobs being lined up for them.
Not to mention all the people that have their time being wasted on pointless interviews since recruiters are obviously getting paid by headcount, not for finding someone that actually fits the job. And that's assuming that the conditions of said job are actually realistic, not that recruiters would know anything about it.
Twitter user is just someone, but there was a tornado out west tonight that has collapsed an Amazon warehouse with what sounds like two hundred workers inside at the time.
As of the most recent tweet, 100 are still trapped within the building, ten have been reported as dead
EDIT: now with news outlet the St Louis Post-Dispatch instead
Developing: An Amazon warehouse collapsed near Pontoon Beach in Madison County Friday night, trapping employees inside, as tornadoes and strong storms blew through the St. Louis region
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Amazon is an enterprise in human rights violations at this point.
I used to work in the distribution center down the road from that building. You just had to hope a tornado never lands there because the "shelter area" was just the one area that didn't have machinery or shelving looming over you.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
It wasn't even a protected shelter, it was just an empty area?
I'm just baffled that "you won't be able to negotiate for yourself!" is a compelling argument. I've never worked in a job that could be union eligible where I thought I could negotiate better pay, benefits, or working conditions. Hell, with my personality, "you won't have to negotiate for yourself" is a very pro-union message...
It's an altogether too common mentality in programmerland, thanks to the "rockstar" mentality endemic in the field.
I mean, programming is also a field where individual skill and knowledge plays a large part, and means different people can have very different values to a team. This isn't the same thing as being a 'rockstar' programmer who doesn't play well with a team. A programmer is not a commodity, and some of the worst jobs I've had were ones where managers thought they were.
I definitely would not want to be put into a one size fits all box with the rest of my teammates in terms of job responsibilities and compensation - not that a union has to be like that. Athletes and actors have unions too, and they definitely negotiate individually.
The above is the point. I can absolutely see, and honestly feel much rhe same, how many workers wouldn't want a union negotiating their exact raises, and who can be promoted, and so on. But, then just don't have a union that does that. Have the union negotiate for your healthcare costs, and your safety needs, and equity in access to promotion review for less visible team members. If your job has a huge divergence in capability between people at similar rank and title, and promotion and advancement are based on challenging metrics, then I assume you that minorities of all types are being excluded and that the union can advocate for equity in access to the process, and for clarity in regards to the process.
Amazon is an enterprise in human rights violations at this point.
I still can't believe I have lived long enough, even as a former Walmart, Sam's Club employee, and knowing Wally world was the genesis and blueprint on how to fuck workers In retail proper.
And yet, Amazon , originally from Seattle, a Strong Union City, unlike Bentonville, Arkansas At Will state, they keep allowing this to happen to their workers and , looking even worst than Walmart.
Eat up Amazon. You approved the design and construction of those buildings. And wonder why they are aggressively pushing for unions?
Well this right here. Proof that a Union is damn well required for Amazon Warehouse Centers.
As someone in tech, I want someone to negotiate for my pay because otherwise there is no way it's going to be an actual fair process. It's just going to benefit people who are good at negotiating (which is not a useful job skill) or the typical biases (white, male, non-LGBT, etc).
As someone in tech, I want someone to negotiate for my pay because otherwise there is no way it's going to be an actual fair process. It's just going to benefit people who are good at negotiating (which is not a useful job skill) or the typical biases (white, male, non-LGBT, etc).
Or, as literally happened, the companies will collude to suppress wages.
Amazon is an enterprise in human rights violations at this point.
I still can't believe I have lived long enough, even as a former Walmart, Sam's Club employee, and knowing Wally world was the genesis and blueprint on how to fuck workers In retail proper.
And yet, Amazon , originally from Seattle, a Strong Union City, unlike Bentonville, Arkansas At Will state, they keep allowing this to happen to their workers and , looking even worst than Walmart.
Eat up Amazon. You approved the design and construction of those buildings. And wonder why they are aggressively pushing for unions?
Well this right here. Proof that a Union is damn well required for Amazon Warehouse Centers.
Short of building an actual bunker, there isn't a ton you can do to design a building against a tornado. Anything less than a steel and poured concrete structure like a office building,with lots of interlocking support, can get scoured down to the foundation.
Any building that is a big open box is just doomed.
Amazon is an enterprise in human rights violations at this point.
I still can't believe I have lived long enough, even as a former Walmart, Sam's Club employee, and knowing Wally world was the genesis and blueprint on how to fuck workers In retail proper.
And yet, Amazon , originally from Seattle, a Strong Union City, unlike Bentonville, Arkansas At Will state, they keep allowing this to happen to their workers and , looking even worst than Walmart.
Eat up Amazon. You approved the design and construction of those buildings. And wonder why they are aggressively pushing for unions?
Well this right here. Proof that a Union is damn well required for Amazon Warehouse Centers.
Short of building an actual bunker, there isn't a ton you can do to design a building against a tornado. Anything less than a steel and poured concrete structure like a office building,with lots of interlocking support, can get scoured down to the foundation.
Any building that is a big open box is just doomed.
See Joplin Mo.
Surely though there’s a way to build a proper tornado shelter, a basement area, for workers to evacuate to, isn’t there? With multiple egress routes so that workers from around the facility can quickly get to shelter no matter where they might be?
Absolutely. Amazon was laying down a concrete slab for the warehouse (they need one for delivery trucks and for forklifts) they could have laid down a concrete bunker for the employees at the same time. It would have been more expensive but it probably would not have been a significant cost relative to the operation.
Now maybe they did make shelter areas that were sufficiently concrete and steel and the storm came up too fast for people to get to them…. But I highly doubt it
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
It doesn’t matter how many “hours of warning” they got because you don’t know, once a warning has been issued, whether or not you have an hour or a minute or that you won’t get hit. When there is a warning you shelter in place. The problem is entirely that the warehouse should have had a safe place to shelter. (Maybe it did and people didn’t have enough time to get to it because they literally are no warning. Maybe Amazon prevented them from stopping work. I don’t know any of this all I know is that you shelter in place when there is a warning and and that whatever system Amazon had to keep their workers safe failed
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
Because it's 2 weeks to Christmas, and instead of holiday decorations, Amazon trims itself out as FoxConn. If warehouses were more than 1 floor, there'd be suicide nets.
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
"Because it's a shipping warehouse" is the answer. I used to work in a warehouse for an online retailer (not Amazon) and they operated on 3 8-hour shifts and were only closed for sixteen hours of every week on Sunday - except during peak times of the year.
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
Because almost all major logistics places run 2nd and 3rd shifts(hell like every grocery store, home depot, target etc is re-stocked mostly at night). A semi that pulls in at 8PM and has to sit for 10 hours before it gets unloaded costs a lot, especially if the driver still has time on their clock and could be (un)loaded and 5 hours towards their next destination. Plus a bunch of drivers pulling in during the night would make a huge back log to clear in the morning, costing even more time.
As someone in tech, I want someone to negotiate for my pay because otherwise there is no way it's going to be an actual fair process. It's just going to benefit people who are good at negotiating (which is not a useful job skill) or the typical biases (white, male, non-LGBT, etc).
Or, as literally happened, the companies will collude to suppress wages.
I have gotten programmers who were directly impacted by the wage fixing cartel argue that it wasn't a big deal, and after all, they were making good money, so how could they be exploited?
As someone in tech, I want someone to negotiate for my pay because otherwise there is no way it's going to be an actual fair process. It's just going to benefit people who are good at negotiating (which is not a useful job skill) or the typical biases (white, male, non-LGBT, etc).
Or, as literally happened, the companies will collude to suppress wages.
I have gotten programmers who were directly impacted by the wage fixing cartel argue that it wasn't a big deal, and after all, they were making good money, so how could they be exploited?
It literally boggles the mind.
A programmer lays on the ground, pinned under a leopard currently making lunch out of him. He nonchalantly looks over to you, as if nothing at all could possibly be more normal.
“What do you mean, there is a leopard eating my face? Hah! What a jokester, seriously.”
He looks at you now, with his one good eye, and chuckles. The leopard has eaten the other eye.
Sheltering in place is safer. Tornadoes are very random. Liable to change direction suddenly and form quickly. You generally don’t know where a tornado is going or how much time it will take to get wherever it might be.
So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
Yeah at that point there wasn't much beyond giving the sever weather alarm.
However, it was well within the operator's ability to look at current weather conditions earlier and send people home. Work cut the OT last night to get us out before the big storm struck us yesterday. It can be done. It just requires someone deciding that workers are people and should be treated as such.
Amazon is an enterprise in human rights violations at this point.
I still can't believe I have lived long enough, even as a former Walmart, Sam's Club employee, and knowing Wally world was the genesis and blueprint on how to fuck workers In retail proper.
And yet, Amazon , originally from Seattle, a Strong Union City, unlike Bentonville, Arkansas At Will state, they keep allowing this to happen to their workers and , looking even worst than Walmart.
Eat up Amazon. You approved the design and construction of those buildings. And wonder why they are aggressively pushing for unions?
Well this right here. Proof that a Union is damn well required for Amazon Warehouse Centers.
Short of building an actual bunker, there isn't a ton you can do to design a building against a tornado. Anything less than a steel and poured concrete structure like a office building,with lots of interlocking support, can get scoured down to the foundation.
Any building that is a big open box is just doomed.
See Joplin Mo.
Surely though there’s a way to build a proper tornado shelter, a basement area, for workers to evacuate to, isn’t there? With multiple egress routes so that workers from around the facility can quickly get to shelter no matter where they might be?
That's really a building code issue. There isn't a requirement that every building have anti-tornado shelters built in because the odds of any specific building-even in tornado alley- getting hit by a tornado are incredibly small. For comparison tornados kill about 80 people in the US every year, fires kill about 3500.
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Huh! Wasn't expecting Biden to weigh in on this, at least not so quickly.
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I mean, programming is also a field where individual skill and knowledge plays a large part, and means different people can have very different values to a team. This isn't the same thing as being a 'rockstar' programmer who doesn't play well with a team. A programmer is not a commodity, and some of the worst jobs I've had were ones where managers thought they were.
I definitely would not want to be put into a one size fits all box with the rest of my teammates in terms of job responsibilities and compensation - not that a union has to be like that. Athletes and actors have unions too, and they definitely negotiate individually.
Not sure if arguing with me or agreeing, cuz yes, a lot of people are silly on both of these two things.
It's a large union in a battleground state.
While I think the President is bad on a ton of labor policy, he is very good at working head tables and making their members feel heard. I know someone who has been there in that capacity when he was both VP and President and while the Democrats have been fickle friends they say he's great when the cameras are off.
Kurt Eichenwald is an author and journalist.
Part of me has always had an issue with 'hacktivism' as it's sort of been used to describe some pretty shitty things. This seems to be one that I fully agree with - though I guess it's technically a borderline denial of service maybe.
A More Perfect Union is a twitter feed devoted to Union coverage
Individual knowledge and skill is a large part of any job. That doesn't make the job not a commodity. It just means there are specialities within the profession and ramp up time on jobs or projects. Programmers are easily replaceable as shown by companies doing so all the time and the effort they go to retain them. The only advantage programmers have is that we're a commodity where demand far exceeds supply.
Unions don't put people in a one size fits all box. There can be both seniority and different titles that reflect differing responsibility and pay.
I mean...specialities mean it's not a commodity. Commodities are completely indistinguishable. At any rate, my point is explaining why software developers might actually care about negotiating for themselves. You're here declaring things to me I already stated in my post.
In the words of Nelson Muntz: Ha ha!
EDIT: ah matev got here first!
Bringing back the good old days of twentieth century labor activism!
That reminds me of a hilarious post on LinkedIn I once saw of a recruiter for an agency whining about all the people that he worked so hard to line up a job for and they kept ghosting on him. He promptly got squashed under the weight of hundreds of posters pointing out how often job-seekers got ghosted by recruiting agencies even after being assured that there are potential jobs being lined up for them.
And the damage to the public image can't be underestimated. I know I'll never buy a Kellogg's product again.
I would definitely not buy a Kellogg product in the near term. Not even from a strike standpoint, but Simply because you know there is absolutely no QC going on right now. Who knows what is in the food they are sending out. I don’t want to be hospital case 1 in Kellogg scab food recall debacle.
Not to mention all the people that have their time being wasted on pointless interviews since recruiters are obviously getting paid by headcount, not for finding someone that actually fits the job. And that's assuming that the conditions of said job are actually realistic, not that recruiters would know anything about it.
As of the most recent tweet, 100 are still trapped within the building, ten have been reported as dead
EDIT: now with news outlet the St Louis Post-Dispatch instead
Edit: this article shows a picture of it
https://fox2now.com/news/illinois/multiple-workers-trapped-after-collapse-at-amazon-warehouse-in-edwardsville/amp/
The above is the point. I can absolutely see, and honestly feel much rhe same, how many workers wouldn't want a union negotiating their exact raises, and who can be promoted, and so on. But, then just don't have a union that does that. Have the union negotiate for your healthcare costs, and your safety needs, and equity in access to promotion review for less visible team members. If your job has a huge divergence in capability between people at similar rank and title, and promotion and advancement are based on challenging metrics, then I assume you that minorities of all types are being excluded and that the union can advocate for equity in access to the process, and for clarity in regards to the process.
I still can't believe I have lived long enough, even as a former Walmart, Sam's Club employee, and knowing Wally world was the genesis and blueprint on how to fuck workers In retail proper.
And yet, Amazon , originally from Seattle, a Strong Union City, unlike Bentonville, Arkansas At Will state, they keep allowing this to happen to their workers and , looking even worst than Walmart.
Eat up Amazon. You approved the design and construction of those buildings. And wonder why they are aggressively pushing for unions?
Well this right here. Proof that a Union is damn well required for Amazon Warehouse Centers.
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Or, as literally happened, the companies will collude to suppress wages.
Short of building an actual bunker, there isn't a ton you can do to design a building against a tornado. Anything less than a steel and poured concrete structure like a office building,with lots of interlocking support, can get scoured down to the foundation.
Any building that is a big open box is just doomed.
See Joplin Mo.
Surely though there’s a way to build a proper tornado shelter, a basement area, for workers to evacuate to, isn’t there? With multiple egress routes so that workers from around the facility can quickly get to shelter no matter where they might be?
Now maybe they did make shelter areas that were sufficiently concrete and steel and the storm came up too fast for people to get to them…. But I highly doubt it
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So you shelter in place (unless you’re in a car and can see it then you drive the other way). For people in a warehouse sheltering in place would be the safest option especially if they had bunkers.
How many hours of warning did they get? Was there really no time to get somewhere safer?
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It doesn’t matter how many “hours of warning” they got because you don’t know, once a warning has been issued, whether or not you have an hour or a minute or that you won’t get hit. When there is a warning you shelter in place. The problem is entirely that the warehouse should have had a safe place to shelter. (Maybe it did and people didn’t have enough time to get to it because they literally are no warning. Maybe Amazon prevented them from stopping work. I don’t know any of this all I know is that you shelter in place when there is a warning and and that whatever system Amazon had to keep their workers safe failed
Tornados in that neck you might get a Tornado watch (conditions favorable to formation) hours ahead but an actual Warning can be “you got minutes from someone sighting the funnel”
I think another excellent question is “why are 200 people still working at the warehouse at like 9PM central time”
Because it's 2 weeks to Christmas, and instead of holiday decorations, Amazon trims itself out as FoxConn. If warehouses were more than 1 floor, there'd be suicide nets.
Also, lights on the suicide nets.
"Because it's a shipping warehouse" is the answer. I used to work in a warehouse for an online retailer (not Amazon) and they operated on 3 8-hour shifts and were only closed for sixteen hours of every week on Sunday - except during peak times of the year.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Because almost all major logistics places run 2nd and 3rd shifts(hell like every grocery store, home depot, target etc is re-stocked mostly at night). A semi that pulls in at 8PM and has to sit for 10 hours before it gets unloaded costs a lot, especially if the driver still has time on their clock and could be (un)loaded and 5 hours towards their next destination. Plus a bunch of drivers pulling in during the night would make a huge back log to clear in the morning, costing even more time.
I have gotten programmers who were directly impacted by the wage fixing cartel argue that it wasn't a big deal, and after all, they were making good money, so how could they be exploited?
It literally boggles the mind.
A programmer lays on the ground, pinned under a leopard currently making lunch out of him. He nonchalantly looks over to you, as if nothing at all could possibly be more normal.
“What do you mean, there is a leopard eating my face? Hah! What a jokester, seriously.”
He looks at you now, with his one good eye, and chuckles. The leopard has eaten the other eye.
Yeah at that point there wasn't much beyond giving the sever weather alarm.
However, it was well within the operator's ability to look at current weather conditions earlier and send people home. Work cut the OT last night to get us out before the big storm struck us yesterday. It can be done. It just requires someone deciding that workers are people and should be treated as such.
Which, you know. Capitalism
That's really a building code issue. There isn't a requirement that every building have anti-tornado shelters built in because the odds of any specific building-even in tornado alley- getting hit by a tornado are incredibly small. For comparison tornados kill about 80 people in the US every year, fires kill about 3500.