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Come talk about the Jaguar, 3DO and Gex in the [Retro Games] Thread

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Posts

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    Apparently, the Saturn version of SotN has a bunch of extra stuff.

    The Saturn version is a trip. There are some solid QOL improvements - The dash relic is pretty cool, but you don't get it until fairly late in the game (well into the inverted castle). Still though, its nice to have if you are nearing the end of the game but want to go back and clean up the map and increase your explored percentage. Having the ability to choose Alucard, Richter, or Maria from the beginning of the game is also nice (even if Maria is pretty OP).

    The biggest benefit is the controller. The Saturn controller is just flat out better than any other retro console or handheld. Performing spells as Alucard goes from being a pain in the ass on the PS1's mushy buttons to being actually enjoyable on the Saturn's excellent d-pad. The "third hand" is also a major benefit, you can equip consumables like potions onto a dedicated button and use them whenever, instead of having to go to the menu, unequip your weapon or shield, equip the consumable, go back to the game, use the consumable, then go back to the menu, re-equip your weapon or shield, and then go back to the game like the PS1/PSP version.

    The extra areas are hit and miss (although they have remixed music from the series). The underground area is cool, the Greenhouse is a gauntlet, and the prison is basically just a series of corridors on top of each other that are filled with ghosts. The cut enemies are a mixed bag, some look great and I genuinely wonder why they were cut, but there are a few that are kind of goofy looking. The exclusive items are fun, having the two familiars that were cut from the US version of the game is cool even if they are basically just recolors of existing ones (although one of them can sing to you).

    The two major impediments to enjoying the Saturn version (from a software standpoint) are the language barrier and the performance. The Saturn port was only released in Japan, so if you don't speak moon it can be tough. Its still playable if you have experienced it on other platforms, but there will be a lot of guesswork figuring out which weapon or item in each menu is which. The performance issue rears its head a lot - there is definitely more slowdown in the Saturn version. The issue is that it was a rushed port intended to be a budget release that was farmed out to an inexperienced team that had an incredibly difficult time wrapping their heads around the Saturn hardware (to the point where they added comments complaining about it in the game's code). Its not unplayable by any means, but it does pop up a lot more often. They used mesh transparencies extensively as well, which will blend just fine on a CRT over a composite connection, but will be glaringly obvious when played on an upscaler (or even a CRT via S-Video). The Glaring Cloth (one of the Saturn exclusive items that is a cape that changes colors) was actually added to make up for the removal of the Cape of Invisibility (which used a transparency effect on other systems). Its not really a huge issue, but it does make the giant skulls in the outside area with the collapsing bridges right before the clocktower and some backgrounds with big moving clouds coming toward the camera look less than stellar.

    The good news is, there is a fan translated version of the Saturn port that replaces all of the written text with English, while also fixing bugs and mitigating some of the irritating performance issues (replacing the Japanese font with an English one with a significantly lower filesize means going to the menu no longer has a huge delay, for example) and adds an in-game map button like the PS1/PSP versions have. The other good news is that any stock Sega Saturn can play burned games with nothing more than a cartridge inserted with the proper firmware on it (no modding required). You can buy these carts outright (last I checked they ran around $50-$60), or flash the firmware to an Action Replay cart and make one of your own.

    I think the best bet for a new player would be to play through the PS1/PSP version first, so they get a sense of baseline performance and content, and then do a second playthrough of the Saturn version to check out all of the exclusive stuff. I still play the Saturn version from time to time, and I am not ashamed to admit that while Alucard's game is incredibly easy, the only way I was able to beat the game as Richter was by spamming Hydro Storm whenever I got into trouble.

    ShadowfireLBD_NytetraynBlackDragon480
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Yeah. I heard about that English fan translation patch. The extra areas sound cool, but for some weird reason, they do not want to carry them into the other versions.
    So, the Saturn version is becoming this special forgotten collector's item.
    I will probably have to collect it at some point.

    NitsuaLBD_Nytetrayn
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    They really need to make a Saturn mini. That would be the Holy Grail. Put Panzer Dragoon Saga on it.

    NitsuaJazzLBD_Nytetrayn
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    They really need to make a Saturn mini. That would be the Holy Grail. Put Panzer Dragoon Saga on it.

    I really, really doubt a Saturn Mini would sell in North America and Europe. The Saturn only sold well in Japan and without a nostalgia factor to work with, only the hardest of hardcore nerds would buy one.

    MMMig
  • NitsuaNitsua Gloucester, VARegistered User regular
    And the scalpers, the scalpers buy everything.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Well, they made an Amiga Mini and that was pretty rare in the US.

    Jazz
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Between nostalgia, hipster-ish attempts at increasing retro street cred, and plain old curiosity I think it would sell alright. Someone at Sega let loose a while back that they had looked into Saturn and Dreamcast minis, but they would be too expensive to manufacture due to the extra horsepower required for emulation.

    The nice thing about the Saturn is that, in the US at least, you can get a Japanese Saturn in decent shape for around $100 or less (including shipping), sometimes bundled with a memory cart and a game or two. Once you get that, pick up a PSK cart for around $50-$60 and dig out the long forgotten spindle of CDRs that is sitting at the bottom of your hall closet. Now instead of paying $100 for a Saturn Mini with 15 or 20 games, you are instead paying around $150 and getting every game in the library (plus, you're playing them on native hardware instead of an emulator).

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    The C64 mini was also pretty niche. I need to dig that out and mess with it. I actually got one of those better joysticks with the switches in it.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I got an old Saturn that still works. It was modded to play burnt discs. The mod was a little sloppy, but it works. I had to replace the AV cable. It was outputting weird.
    These days, I use the Beetle Saturn emulator.

  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    People forget the pixels are intended to be a little blurry.

    I think the option should always be there for both. Sometimes I'm in the mood for sharp clean pixels, but sometimes I want a well done CRT filter. Just as long as there's no "pixel perfect" mode.

    MMMigSynthesisJazz
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    Between the GG micro and both Astro City minis, Sega is real happy to make minis exclusive to Japan right now. The main issue is that they don't have a cheap enough vehicle to deliver passable Saturn emulation, but that can change in the nearish future.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    People forget the pixels are intended to be a little blurry.

    I think the option should always be there for both. Sometimes I'm in the mood for sharp clean pixels, but sometimes I want a well done CRT filter. Just as long as there's no "pixel perfect" mode.

    I think there's plenty of space for a pixel perfect mode (at least, as it's been implemented correctly, like any other option); what we need, above all, are a variety of options.

    (Maybe excluding anything that morphs the pixels into a weird shape to fill out the 4:3 into modern widescreen. For god's sakes, keep the correct aspect ratios.)

  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Dirty wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    People forget the pixels are intended to be a little blurry.

    I think the option should always be there for both. Sometimes I'm in the mood for sharp clean pixels, but sometimes I want a well done CRT filter. Just as long as there's no "pixel perfect" mode.

    I think there's plenty of space for a pixel perfect mode (at least, as it's been implemented correctly, like any other option); what we need, above all, are a variety of options.

    (Maybe excluding anything that morphs the pixels into a weird shape to fill out the 4:3 into modern widescreen. For god's sakes, keep the correct aspect ratios.)

    That's the thing, pixel perfect mode is usually the wrong aspect ratio.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Dirty wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    People forget the pixels are intended to be a little blurry.

    I think the option should always be there for both. Sometimes I'm in the mood for sharp clean pixels, but sometimes I want a well done CRT filter. Just as long as there's no "pixel perfect" mode.

    I think there's plenty of space for a pixel perfect mode (at least, as it's been implemented correctly, like any other option); what we need, above all, are a variety of options.

    (Maybe excluding anything that morphs the pixels into a weird shape to fill out the 4:3 into modern widescreen. For god's sakes, keep the correct aspect ratios.)

    That's the thing, pixel perfect mode is usually the wrong aspect ratio.

    Good point. It's entirely possible I'm thinking of the name incorrectly, since whether or not old hardware generated pixels in a square shape wasn't universal by any means.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    First and foremost, correct aspect ratios are king.

    Synthesis
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    I always get annoyed with gog games when they don't force aspect ratio. It is the first thing I do when getting one of their games.
    It is supposed to be 4:3, dammit.

    Krathoon on
    augustrahkeesh2000
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    Some games lend themselves well to 16:9 mods, some don't. Discretion should be excercised, and if you're changing a game from how it was originally presented (at least in an edition that purports to be original and not tweaked to modern standards, like the Bethesda Doom or Quake releases), give us it as an option, don't force it. I'll use it in some stuff, absolutely - if it doesn't interfere with the game in any way that can make it worse.

    And if you're just literally stretching that 4:3 image out to 16:9 (or indeed squashing it into some "pixel perfect" mode just so you can have square pixels on a machine that didn't originally have them), then go and stand in the corner and think long and hard about what you've done.

    Jazz on
    Phoenix-D
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    All of the DOSBox games should be forced to 4:3. Really, it should be a default.
    For some reason, they don't do that. You will notice that the circles are not perfectly round and that is usually the reason.

    The Sierra logo looking like an oval is a pretty good indicator that something is off.

    Krathoon on
    JazzaugustStormwatcher
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    The English translation patch for the Saturn SotN changes the Richter portrait for some weird reason.
    Someone is messing with stuff that they shouldn't.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    In the original retail version of the game Richter's portrait didn't match his reused Rondo of Blood sprites (which is why his portrait in dialogue scenes doesn't have a headband). The Saturn port has a slightly different look for Richter as well, so the translation people changed the portrait to another piece of art that more closely resembled it. Between the intro section, Richter mode, the portraits, Richter in the Colloseum, and the sprite Maria uses when she asks Alucard about him the whole thing is kind of a mess.

    Maria's sprite doesn't quite match up with the art that was used for her portrait either, but its close enough that its not obvious.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    As someone who loves the Saturn and SotN, I can freely vouch that it is a terrible port.
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I got an old Saturn that still works. It was modded to play burnt discs. The mod was a little sloppy, but it works. I had to replace the AV cable. It was outputting weird.
    These days, I use the Beetle Saturn emulator.

    Satiator means you don't have to mod it at all.

    cj_iwakura.gif
    rahkeesh2000
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    As someone who loves the Saturn and SotN, I can freely vouch that it is a terrible port.
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I got an old Saturn that still works. It was modded to play burnt discs. The mod was a little sloppy, but it works. I had to replace the AV cable. It was outputting weird.
    These days, I use the Beetle Saturn emulator.

    Satiator means you don't have to mod it at all.

    It was either modded for burnt discs or foreign ones. I don't remember. It was ages ago. The soldering was probably pretty sloppy. I was not that experienced with it.
    It has one of those special carts in it.
    I probably should give it a good cleaning.
    I was amazed that it is still working.

    I also got one of those PSOnes with a portable screen. Really, having Duckstation on a laptop made that obsolete.
    I did have my Playstation saves going to OneDrive, but OneDrive is full. I was messing around with DragonAge saves and it filled it up.

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    The Satiator is also just shy of $300. Meanwhile, a PSK cart is double digits and I think you can still get Saturn modchips for like $15-$20.

    I have a MODE (which was also fairly expensive), but for most people getting a cart is gonna bethe best way to go, and if they do want to look into an ode than they can save a ton of money picking up a Fenrir instead. The Satiator being plug and play is nice, but ODEs are very easy to install - if you are smart enough to build a Lego set you shouldn't have any trouble.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    It seems like alcohol and a tooth brush would be good to clean out the seams on the case. It wish they didn't design the Saturn that way.
    The original XBox has some grills that get dust in them.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    Wii U and 3DS eShop will die on March 2023.
    https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/57847/~/wii-u-&-nintendo-3ds-eshop-discontinuation-q&a

    Something to keep in mind. I will probably hook it up at some point and update it. I bet there are some apps that need updating, like Shovel Knight.
    So, you make want to look around and see if there are some apps to collect.

    The PS3 store and PSP store are supposed to die at some point. I guess they will keep the servers up for patches.
    I think I found what I wanted on the PS3 store.
    I got the Mortal Kombat Kollection, Darkstalkers Chronicles, and House of the Dead 4.
    There may be some PSOne games to get. I might get a copy of SotN since it has the original voice acting.
    Also, there are the Teken games. I did already get the Tomba! games and Klonoa.

    Krathoon on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    The Satiator is also just shy of $300. Meanwhile, a PSK cart is double digits and I think you can still get Saturn modchips for like $15-$20.

    I have a MODE (which was also fairly expensive), but for most people getting a cart is gonna bethe best way to go, and if they do want to look into an ode than they can save a ton of money picking up a Fenrir instead. The Satiator being plug and play is nice, but ODEs are very easy to install - if you are smart enough to build a Lego set you shouldn't have any trouble.

    I made an indulgence purchase when I got paid, and it was easily worth it. I have an OG 1996 Saturn and it was simple as plug and play.

    cj_iwakura.gif
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    There was a Wii U update in 2021.
    https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/56457/wii-u-system-update-released-yes-in-2021

    I think I messed around with the Wii U last year. I had the Homebrew channel working on the emulated Wii console. I have a couple import games I use on it.
    They were The Last Story and Pandora's Tower. Pandora's Tower was kind of buggy. I don't know if they ever patched with up. I wonder if you can patch through Homebrew.

    Edit:It looks like they never patched it. There is a workaround.
    https://nintendoeverything.com/pandoras-tower-has-a-game-freezing-bug-but-there-is-a-solution/

    Krathoon on
  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    Krathoon wrote: »
    It seems like alcohol and a tooth brush would be good to clean out the seams on the case. It wish they didn't design the Saturn that way.
    The original XBox has some grills that get dust in them.

    One of many reasons I'm such a fan of the launch PS4's slick, clean design. One pass with a microfiber cloth, done. And where I kept it, it didn't seem to collect much dust in the first place. Only a little bit along the intakes, and a little inside after a few years of constant use.

    ArmsForPeace84 on
    Nothing personal. It's just business.
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    We went to Bull Moose again today, a local game/music/book chain. This time we hit the one a few towns over. This is now a part of my son's collection (we'll probably sell his normal colored one online.)

    It's the Funtastic Smoke Black version in a slightly beat up box. We only paid $120 which is apparently quite good. He also got the Sharp Twin Famicom off Mercari this week. We have the disk version of Castlevania on the way as well.

    h03kk52r7iws.jpeg

    fnr3gldsnzxb.jpeg

    BlackDragon480Local H JayJazzemnmnmeBetsuniDonnictonMMMigShadowfireNitsuarahkeesh2000BigJoeMwunderbar
  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    On one hand, I think I'd rather my kid be hooked on retro games than drugs, but on the other hand, it's getting to the point where the drugs are cheaper.

    JazzBlackDragon480Kreutzwunderbar
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    On one hand, I think I'd rather my kid be hooked on retro games than drugs, but on the other hand, it's getting to the point where the drugs are cheaper.

    Yeah. Retro Games are pricey. It have been messing with more recent stuff and gog.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    On one hand, I think I'd rather my kid be hooked on retro games than drugs, but on the other hand, it's getting to the point where the drugs are cheaper.

    What, you don't have a dragon's hoard in the basement?

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    rahkeesh2000
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    PS2 games are good to collect now. Not too pricey and there is some weird stuff.
    I have also been digging around in PS3 games and 360 Kinect games.
    I assume the 360 Kinect games don't work on XBox One. I don't know if you can put the newer Kinect on the 360.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I would recommend Critical Depth for the PS1. It is a cheap weird game.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    PS2 games are good to collect now. Not too pricey and there is some weird stuff.
    I have also been digging around in PS3 games and 360 Kinect games.
    I assume the 360 Kinect games don't work on XBox One. I don't know if you can put the newer Kinect on the 360.

    The newer Kinect has a different connector and upgraded internal tech IIRC. It's a measure of how unloved it was, though, that while the OG Xbox One had a dedicated socket for it, the One S and One X omitted it altogether. There's an adapter to use it on one of those newer variants but it was apparently made in limited numbers and isn't cheap now.

    Series consoles don't support it at all as far as I'm aware.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    PS2 games are good to collect now. Not too pricey and there is some weird stuff.
    I have also been digging around in PS3 games and 360 Kinect games.
    I assume the 360 Kinect games don't work on XBox One. I don't know if you can put the newer Kinect on the 360.

    The newer Kinect has a different connector and upgraded internal tech IIRC. It's a measure of how unloved it was, though, that while the OG Xbox One had a dedicated socket for it, the One S and One X omitted it altogether. There's an adapter to use it on one of those newer variants but it was apparently made in limited numbers and isn't cheap now.

    Series consoles don't support it at all as far as I'm aware.

    Yeah. I got an adapter a while back. Not certain if the 360 Kinect games are supported on the Xbox One. I don't really have room to setup the 360. My HDMI switch is full too.
    Maybe I should setup a tv in the bedroom. I need to get a container to put all my mini consoles in.
    Really, I have found the Wii to be more convenient than the WiiU.

    I was playing the Capcom Fighting Collection. The A.I. in Darkstalkers 1 and Street Fighter 2 is brutal. The later games are more balanced.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    The Gunstringer was probably the best Kinect game. I think I have the DLC. It was like a live video shooting gallery.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Rare put all that effort into that Kinect exercise game and Microsoft abandoned it.

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    the technology in the 360 version of kinect wasn't good enough to do what Microsoft really wanted to do with it. The version on the xbone was way better, but was doomed the second that the PS4 was sold for $100 less.

    The catch 22 was that the only way for Kinect to really succeed was to be included with every Xbox, otherwise it's just another optional accessory that most people wont' buy. So Microsoft included it, but that meant the Xbox One was $100 more than the PS4 at launch, which tanked the Xbox One sales in a way it could never really recover from. Microsoft eventually cut the Kinect out of the Xbox One box and made it optional to get the price down, which then again meant that it was an optional accessory that only a subset of the userbase had and why would developers put a ton of time and money into developing kinect games if only a small percentage of the install base can even play it?


    I'll maintain for a very long time that the Xbox One was the right device at the wrong time. There were aspects of it that were way ahead of its time. When I picked up an Xbox one a couple months after launch I had it set up the whole way Microsoft had demoed. I had my cable box plugged into the HDMI passthrough so I could just yell at my living room "Xbox on" and my Xbox, TV, and speakers would all turn on, and by default it went to the cable box input for watching TV. But then just a couple remote/controller presses had me into a game or Netflix or whatever else was there.

    Microsoft was doing this a year before Amazon's Alexa/echo. 3 years before the first Google Home device. But a lot of the things we take for granted now like yelling at the sky computer to do things didn't exist back then, and Microsoft was among the first to make it happen.

    Just a bit too ahead of its time.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
    LBD_NytetraynFrem
  • NitsuaNitsua Gloucester, VARegistered User regular
    Yeah, I loved coming home and stating Xbox On and Play [specific game]. And for the game to be up and running and all I had to do was sit on my couch. Having to use a remote Or press power on my TV and Series X feels like a definite step back.

    LBD_Nytetrayn
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