To be fair with regards to First Contact and the Defiant
The Defiant wasn't meant to be out soloing cubes. There was meant to be a whole fleet of them, deployed in wings from starbases during an attack. Individually they offered the greatest threat that could be packed into a low value package that hopefully wouldn't be prioritized for assimilation.
Starfleet ultimately decided to go a different way, and we see in Endgame that they were still going with the, "Throw a bunch of shit at the wall," method of Borg defense.
Considering what she was designed for, the Defiant would logically have been the first ship they called on, which means she was probably in the group that first engaged the Cube. And she was still kicking X amount of time later, which means she was in a running fight from the first engagement all the way to Earth (I dunno where the Typhon Sector is, but I doubt it's right on Earth's doorstep). Against a ship that was taking most starships out with a couple of shots.
The original and then the Sau Paulo? AFAIK, the Defiant we see in First Contact was simply repaired. Am I missing one?
Valiant and an unnamed one that was trying to recapture the Prometheus. Might have been one present in the Endgame fleet, as well, which was assembled within minutes so can't be the Defiant itself.
Please, that's just All Writing 101.
I remember that one episode of Angel where one characters parents visit and we spend the entire episode wondering what's wrong with them, then it turns out that they're normal parents and nothings wrong with them. None of the cast know how to relate to that.
I've mulled over the last couple of episodes of TNG and I'm not sure I like how they left things with Ro, really seemed like it should have been a mid season episode where you maybe get some follow up as opposed to the episode that leads to the finale. What happens to her? Killed by the Cardassian during the events of DS9?
Also what was with the Worf Troi romance, kinda seemed like it came out of nowhere and I know they tested it in previous episodes, but they basically start it in the season finale. And then it's not addressed in any of the movies? What? Doesn't even get addressed on DS9.
I think Ro's abrupt conclusion was a casualty of planning to have her on Voyager but that fell through.
+6
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The Worf-Troy thing is really weird. It worked well enough as far as chemistry between the characters went, but it comes out of nowhere and goes nowhere. It never comes up in DS9 and there's the whole wedding in Nemesis. I'm not sure if they actually had any plans of going forward with it in the movies or if it was a one-off hook for the series.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I thought Kira was originally Ro, but Forbes didn't want to sign on for a series.
Voyager's weirdness is with Paris being his TNG character Nicholas Locarno but with the serial number filed off so they didn't have to pay the original creator royalties.
Voyager's weirdness is with Paris being his TNG character Nicholas Locarno but with the serial number filed off so they didn't have to pay the original creator royalties.
I would love for Lower Decks to revisit that. Just a passing gag about how similar Paris and Locarno are, like there was an unusually high number of similar-looking rebellious pilots in Crusher's class, or something.
Voyager's weirdness is with Paris being his TNG character Nicholas Locarno but with the serial number filed off so they didn't have to pay the original creator royalties.
Actually, that's a thought.
Looking it up, Michael Piller wrote 'Ensign Ro'. He also had some degree of influence getting DS9 and Voyager off the ground.
Did he push for Ro in those so he could get the royalties?
I'm upset that we didn't get Ro as a long term character, but I'm extremely glad we got things the way we did because my life would be incomplete with Nana Visitor.
I'm upset that we didn't get Ro as a long term character, but I'm extremely glad we go things the way we did because my life would be incomplete with Nana Visitor.
To me, Kira being entirely outside of Starfleet was important to a lot of things in DS9, because Bajor and the Bajoran Militia were not bound by the same rules as the Federation and Starfleet. Things she did being done by a Starfleet officer take on a different and honestly sinister tone.
I feel like the perfect universe version of DS9 had both, with Kira being equal parts the person Ro joined Starfleet to avoid being and the person she wished she could be. At the same time it would turn every Kira/Sisko dynamic into an angry triangle and DS9 had the perfect amount of yelling as it was.
+10
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I'm impressed that the writers, when they couldn't use Ro, went ahead and made Kira a straight up terrorist who exploded people and felt little to no remorse about it. It's pre-9/11, but even so it was pretty bold writing to have someone with her background as a protagonist. A lesser show would have sanded off some of her rough edges and everything would have suffered as a result. Duet, for example, would have been far less interesting if she hadn't started off full of raw hatred for Marritza.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
It's pre-9/11 but terrorism was EXTREMELY top of the mind in the 90's. There was a lot more argument about freedom fighters vs terrorists depending on your side of things back then. It was a bold decision, ESPECIALLY when Kira herself, when someone called her a freedom fighter full on said "no, I was a terrorist" and made no bones about it.
Yeah, 9/11 didn't so much make terrorism a thing in media as it made it basically impossible to portray terrorists as nuanced characters who might have a just cause.
+12
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
I think Ro's abrupt conclusion was a casualty of planning to have her on Voyager but that fell through.
I don't think she's was ever planned for Voyager - she was supposed to be Kira, turned down that role, and we got Kira instead (which was a win, as much as I like Michelle Forbes.)
It's pre-9/11 but terrorism was EXTREMELY top of the mind in the 90's. There was a lot more argument about freedom fighters vs terrorists depending on your side of things back then. It was a bold decision, ESPECIALLY when Kira herself, when someone called her a freedom fighter full on said "no, I was a terrorist" and made no bones about it.
I wonder what a post-9/11 writers room would have done with her character. At the very least they'd have swapped that line around, so a cardassian would have called her a terrorist and she'd clarify that she was a freedom fighter.
More likely they'd be heavily sanitised so they never killed any civilians or some such, probably finally drove the cardassians out with the help of the USFederation.
Then the Federation leaves and whoops the cardassians came back immediately what do you call this earth thing named subtext.
It's pre-9/11 but terrorism was EXTREMELY top of the mind in the 90's. There was a lot more argument about freedom fighters vs terrorists depending on your side of things back then. It was a bold decision, ESPECIALLY when Kira herself, when someone called her a freedom fighter full on said "no, I was a terrorist" and made no bones about it.
I wonder what a post-9/11 writers room would have done with her character. At the very least they'd have swapped that line around, so a cardassian would have called her a terrorist and she'd clarify that she was a freedom fighter.
More likely they'd be heavily sanitised so they never killed any civilians or some such, probably finally drove the cardassians out with the help of the USFederation.
Then the Federation leaves and whoops the cardassians came back immediately what do you call this earth thing named subtext.
I'm not sure the Bajorans as-written could've even been the focus of a show. Intensely religious people who had to wage a war of terrorism against a vastly militarily superior foe?
Add an image of someone explaining that a dog is similar to a targ and I would one hundred percent believe Martok said that.
Also, Gowron just replaced Martok as general and so I'm going to go ahead and assume the Klingon war effort collapses immediately because Gowron fucks up just about everything he touches.
Gowron was a competent leader. He just came down with a touch of the paranoid insanity during the Dominion war. Could have happened to anyone.
Honestly, I think Gowron was kind of a victim of his own crazy-eyed success during the Dominion War. He'd eliminated basically everyone he actually had a reason to be paranoid about and was totally unprepared for an outside threat.
Posts
Starfleet ultimately decided to go a different way, and we see in Endgame that they were still going with the, "Throw a bunch of shit at the wall," method of Borg defense.
U.S.S. Defiant, Constitution-class.
Edit: answering wrong question, see above
Geordi's mom: Missing (dead)
Data's mom: Robot (dead)
Troi's mom: psychologically traumatized by death of her first daughter
Also, what is up with Starfleet's flashlights? Their palm design seems super hard to hold.
They were originally designed for dolphins.
Star Trek writing 101: mommy issues
Star Trek writing 102: Also daddy and brother issues
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
I remember that one episode of Angel where one characters parents visit and we spend the entire episode wondering what's wrong with them, then it turns out that they're normal parents and nothings wrong with them. None of the cast know how to relate to that.
Also what was with the Worf Troi romance, kinda seemed like it came out of nowhere and I know they tested it in previous episodes, but they basically start it in the season finale. And then it's not addressed in any of the movies? What? Doesn't even get addressed on DS9.
Voyager's weirdness is with Paris being his TNG character Nicholas Locarno but with the serial number filed off so they didn't have to pay the original creator royalties.
They also tried later to get her into flashback episodes on Voyager and Maquis episodes on DS9 and it never worked out.
I would love for Lower Decks to revisit that. Just a passing gag about how similar Paris and Locarno are, like there was an unusually high number of similar-looking rebellious pilots in Crusher's class, or something.
Looking it up, Michael Piller wrote 'Ensign Ro'. He also had some degree of influence getting DS9 and Voyager off the ground.
Did he push for Ro in those so he could get the royalties?
Agreed, Ro would be good but different.
I feel like the perfect universe version of DS9 had both, with Kira being equal parts the person Ro joined Starfleet to avoid being and the person she wished she could be. At the same time it would turn every Kira/Sisko dynamic into an angry triangle and DS9 had the perfect amount of yelling as it was.
I don't think she's was ever planned for Voyager - she was supposed to be Kira, turned down that role, and we got Kira instead (which was a win, as much as I like Michelle Forbes.)
I wonder what a post-9/11 writers room would have done with her character. At the very least they'd have swapped that line around, so a cardassian would have called her a terrorist and she'd clarify that she was a freedom fighter.
More likely they'd be heavily sanitised so they never killed any civilians or some such, probably finally drove the cardassians out with the help of the USFederation.
Then the Federation leaves and whoops the cardassians came back immediately what do you call this earth thing named subtext.
I'm not sure the Bajorans as-written could've even been the focus of a show. Intensely religious people who had to wage a war of terrorism against a vastly militarily superior foe?
there at least several dozens eventually, though I think they only made a couple at first.
Add an image of someone explaining that a dog is similar to a targ and I would one hundred percent believe Martok said that.
Also, Gowron just replaced Martok as general and so I'm going to go ahead and assume the Klingon war effort collapses immediately because Gowron fucks up just about everything he touches.
Regarding that and his actions towards Worf