Bleh, more of Dal being a little shit and everyone suffering for it. Really hope they give him some development soon because he's harshing the vibe. He's more dangerous to the crew than Gwyn at this point. Also I hope they're really forshadowing her becoming the captain.
Jankum being the first person in Star Trek history to refuse to do an away mission on a M class planet without a suit gets some mad props from me, though I wish he had realized that he shouldn't be able to smell things through the suit.
I wonder if there's any significance to one of the illusions being the Protostars mystery engine, or if Zero was just really into mysteries so that's what appeared to him.
VERY surprised the show is going with a more serialized format; this episode straight up ends on a cliffhanger. I figured the kids show would be more one-offy like Lower Decks.
Also what was up with those tricorders? They're way different than any I've seen before (do they show up in Picard?) This show is increasingly feeling like it can't possibly be only five years post voyager.
I agree about Dell needing development, though I liked that he was the first person to realize something was wrong and his immediate instinct was to rescue everyone else.
I hope they do something with Gywn's realization that it couldn't be her father because the illusion was kind to her. That really reminded me of Odo in Heart of Stone. I also hope she notices that the others came to help her while she was about to leave them all to die. I also agree that she's going to end up captain—that'll probably be the season finale after she finally accepts that her father is evil.
As for the tricorders, I like the design. I'm not sure we can use to determine when the Protostar launched, though. Just look at how much phaser rifles changed between 2364 and 2379.
That said, I can't wait to get those phasers in STO. Space Barbie, go!
Speculation on upcoming episodes:
•Gwyn will bond with the rest of the team while repairing the Protostar.
•They'll discover a) why the Diviner wants the ship or b) why he hates the Federation.
•The Diviner and Robo Vader will find them and capture the team and the ship.
•Gwyn defects when the Diviner mistreats the rest of the team.
They address it in the movie, but like why is Sybock Spock's brother? He could have been any Vulcan, or his (only?) friend from his youth.
Writing Shortcuts 101; Instead of establishing the personalities of two characters to make them believable antagonists to each other, just state some kind of messed up family/biological relationship. See also: Nemesis, Spectre, probably a whole bunch of things I haven't seen.
And whats with Federation captains and mountain climbing, Picard apparently also climbed in his youth.
It's part of the psychological assessment for making captain; if there's a mountain in front of you and you want to see what's behind it, do you a) go around it, or b) climb right over the thing? Anyone who answers a) isn't going to be put in command of a starship.
(This actually tracks with the default instinct of any Starfleet captain when encountering an Unknown Energy Thing in space; let's try flying into it and see what happens)
Plus mountain climbing is hella mental. Sure you have to be trained and physically fit, sorta, but for a lot of peaks it's mostly the raw willpower to keep putting one foot in front of the other until you run out of mountain. With the full support of Federation technology so that death is less likely, I can definitely see command track types getting into it.
I dunno, Kirk was free-climbing El Capitan (and falls). Picard's "son" was free climbing some cliff on whatever planet they picked him up on. As good as the doctors are, I dont know if they can reconstitute you from a puddle. I mean they can, just re-energize your last transporter pattern, but they dont do that for reasons. Or just grow a new you from the DNA slop they find at the base of the cliff.
For what its worth Kirk says he climbs mountains because they're there, so maybe it is a psych requirement for starship captains. Or at least explorers? I'd assume captains of medical/transport ships are probably expected to not explore nearby unknowns just because they happened to be in the area.
Well humans have survived falls after reaching terminal velocity. Maybe Anbo-Jyutsu has perfected the art of falling so that all of your bones are broken, a bunch of organs are in bad shape, and you still are alive long enough to be transported to the nearest hospital waiting to patch up your dumb ass. Seems like almost the exact type of stupid for the Federation.
They address it in the movie, but like why is Sybock Spock's brother? He could have been any Vulcan, or his (only?) friend from his youth.
Writing Shortcuts 101; Instead of establishing the personalities of two characters to make them believable antagonists to each other, just state some kind of messed up family/biological relationship. See also: Nemesis, Spectre, probably a whole bunch of things I haven't seen.
And whats with Federation captains and mountain climbing, Picard apparently also climbed in his youth.
It's part of the psychological assessment for making captain; if there's a mountain in front of you and you want to see what's behind it, do you a) go around it, or b) climb right over the thing? Anyone who answers a) isn't going to be put in command of a starship.
(This actually tracks with the default instinct of any Starfleet captain when encountering an Unknown Energy Thing in space; let's try flying into it and see what happens)
Plus mountain climbing is hella mental. Sure you have to be trained and physically fit, sorta, but for a lot of peaks it's mostly the raw willpower to keep putting one foot in front of the other until you run out of mountain. With the full support of Federation technology so that death is less likely, I can definitely see command track types getting into it.
I dunno, Kirk was free-climbing El Capitan (and falls). Picard's "son" was free climbing some cliff on whatever planet they picked him up on. As good as the doctors are, I dont know if they can reconstitute you from a puddle. I mean they can, just re-energize your last transporter pattern, but they dont do that for reasons. Or just grow a new you from the DNA slop they find at the base of the cliff.
For what its worth Kirk says he climbs mountains because they're there, so maybe it is a psych requirement for starship captains. Or at least explorers? I'd assume captains of medical/transport ships are probably expected to not explore nearby unknowns just because they happened to be in the area.
Well humans have survived falls after reaching terminal velocity. Maybe Anbo-Jyutsu has perfected the art of falling so that all of your bones are broken, a bunch of organs are in bad shape, and you still are alive long enough to be transported to the nearest hospital waiting to patch up your dumb ass. Seems like almost the exact type of stupid for the Federation.
Now I come to think about it, all you’d really need are portable inertial dampeners for smaller loads.
Wait why do you say that? Do we actually see evidence of that in a show? All I remember is quark thinking he's dying because "the most expensive doctor on ferenginar" tells him so and then when it turns out he isn't dying his first reaction is happiness at his he'll be able to sue for malpractice.
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
Bleh, more of Dal being a little shit and everyone suffering for it. Really hope they give him some development soon because he's harshing the vibe. He's more dangerous to the crew than Gwyn at this point. Also I hope they're really forshadowing her becoming the captain.
Jankum being the first person in Star Trek history to refuse to do an away mission on a M class planet without a suit gets some mad props from me, though I wish he had realized that he shouldn't be able to smell things through the suit.
I wonder if there's any significance to one of the illusions being the Protostars mystery engine, or if Zero was just really into mysteries so that's what appeared to him.
VERY surprised the show is going with a more serialized format; this episode straight up ends on a cliffhanger. I figured the kids show would be more one-offy like Lower Decks.
Also what was up with those tricorders? They're way different than any I've seen before (do they show up in Picard?) This show is increasingly feeling like it can't possibly be only five years post voyager.
I agree about Dell needing development, though I liked that he was the first person to realize something was wrong and his immediate instinct was to rescue everyone else.
I hope they do something with Gywn's realization that it couldn't be her father because the illusion was kind to her. That really reminded me of Odo in Heart of Stone. I also hope she notices that the others came to help her while she was about to leave them all to die. I also agree that she's going to end up captain—that'll probably be the season finale after she finally accepts that her father is evil.
As for the tricorders, I like the design. I'm not sure we can use to determine when the Protostar launched, though. Just look at how much phaser rifles changed between 2364 and 2379.
That said, I can't wait to get those phasers in STO. Space Barbie, go!
Speculation on upcoming episodes:
•Gwyn will bond with the rest of the team while repairing the Protostar.
•They'll discover a) why the Diviner wants the ship or b) why he hates the Federation.
•The Diviner and Robo Vader will find them and capture the team and the ship.
•Gwyn defects when the Diviner mistreats the rest of the team.
I figure Gwyn's turning point will be when she realises Diviner couldn't give two shits about her; he'll get a choice between saving her and pursuing the ship, and won't even hesitate for a second.
Wait why do you say that? Do we actually see evidence of that in a show? All I remember is quark thinking he's dying because "the most expensive doctor on ferenginar" tells him so and then when it turns out he isn't dying his first reaction is happiness at his he'll be able to sue for malpractice.
In the Season 7 Episode, Dogs of War, Liquidator Brunt is outlining all of the progressive changes the Grand Nagus and Moogi have made and he gets to "free healthcare for..." and he's interrupted by Quark shrieking, but he's clearly saying "everyone".
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Eh? The emotion chip first turns up in Brothers, the first Lore episode. And basically every one he turns up in after that.
I agree it’s not a great idea, for exactly the reasons you state, but it’s not something they threw together for one of the movies.
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Eh? The emotion chip first turns up in Brothers, the first Lore episode. And basically every one he turns up in after that.
I agree it’s not a great idea, for exactly the reasons you state, but it’s not something they threw together for one of the movies.
I like the idea the chip was Soonhg realizing he'd die before Data could fully develop and made a chip so he could see his son "complete" . Otherwise I really loathe it as a concept
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Eh? The emotion chip first turns up in Brothers, the first Lore episode. And basically every one he turns up in after that.
I agree it’s not a great idea, for exactly the reasons you state, but it’s not something they threw together for one of the movies.
I like the idea the chip was Soonhg realizing he'd die before Data could fully develop and made a chip so he could see his son "complete" . Otherwise I really loathe it as a concept
I think the idea was to have Data evolve as a being before giving him emotions, so he wouldn't wind up like Lore.
Nah, this is 100% colonialism. Think more British Empire than modern stuff. I mean, even w/o that it's probably more akin to the Soviet occupations. I gues what I'm saying is it's commentary was spot on, but only ahead of it's time in that it had the temerity to actually make that point, rather than "white man do good" being the only answer.
Star Trek VI is pretty good, much better than Star Trek V but thats a pretty low bar. For whatever reason I associate all of these movies as having come out before TNG started airing, but The Undiscovered Country came out in like season 5. I thought this movie established that Klingons love Shakespeare, but I think earlier episodes of TNG reference it.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Eh? The emotion chip first turns up in Brothers, the first Lore episode. And basically every one he turns up in after that.
I agree it’s not a great idea, for exactly the reasons you state, but it’s not something they threw together for one of the movies.
True, but that part never bothers me. It is a rare moment (3 episodes including both parts of a 2 parter) that doesn't really change the way the character is going. They continue to grow Data in emotional ways, and how he continues to strive for this emotional ability. I will say by the time we got to Descent that the ground work had been abandoned so it isn't entirely on the movie. It was still something salvageable because it works within the framework still since Lore was manipulating the input. I mostly throw it on the movie though because it is the only time they use it before deciding it was a bad idea.
Data did not share the crew's views on his emotional development. He would describe every feeling in technical terminology ("accustomed inputs are anticipated, and their absence noted"), what they saw as sympathy and understanding were his hard wired ethical rules, even his bond with Spot was because he took on a responsibility that his ethics required him to uphold. Even his desire to become better was coded in and he could see the subroutine activating and see how it recorded failures or successes.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
Data did not share the crew's views on his emotional development. He would describe every feeling in technical terminology ("accustomed inputs are anticipated, and their absence noted"), what they saw as sympathy and understanding were his hard wired ethical rules, even his bond with Spot was because he took on a responsibility that his ethics required him to uphold. Even his desire to become better was coded in and he could see the subroutine activating and see how it recorded failures or successes.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
The episode where he dates someone is I think a great illustration of this.
Meanwhile, I'm thinking of Detroit: Become Human (and the "Assembly" demo it evolved from) and thinking "good enough for me."
Yes, I acknowledge I'm a bit of a sucker when it comes to my empathetic response - I have trouble not answering the recorded voice in my office's elevator, though I know the mechanism behind it is not sapient or, for that matter, much more complex than the ones that just went *bing!* at me - but this is one of those places where I think its worth erring on the side of generosity and benefit of the doubt.
If Data was a fully human person and just had an extreme, specific processing method for the world he'd still be sentient and the things he expressed would still be considered feelings.
He'd almost certainly be considered to have a mental disability relating to how he processes those feelings but he'd be a person without a doubt.
Data creates feelings via logical assumptions that are quite often incorrect. This is just an inverse way of how many people have feelings then adjust their logical assumptions to make them feel more correct. Which is why it comes across as unnatural/inhuman and struggles with more front loaded emotional concepts like comedy or romance.
At one point Data is confused how Tasha's death could effect him more than the death of another random crewmember, given that, from a logical standpoint, both deaths should carry equal weight.
I think there's more going on there than the sum of his parts.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Data did not share the crew's views on his emotional development. He would describe every feeling in technical terminology ("accustomed inputs are anticipated, and their absence noted"), what they saw as sympathy and understanding were his hard wired ethical rules, even his bond with Spot was because he took on a responsibility that his ethics required him to uphold. Even his desire to become better was coded in and he could see the subroutine activating and see how it recorded failures or successes.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
Am I weird for thinking the entire time, since I first saw it, that his feeling rage when killing the Borg drone was supposed to be Lore, through the Borg, somehow subtly influencing him to feel emotions?
Finished Prodigy. They snuck in an answer to one of the timeline/locale questions:
In his illusion, Jankem mentions a Tellar sleeper ship. If he'd been on a sleeper ship, he or his recent ancestors could very well have left Tellar before the Earth-Romulan War, easily placing them in the Delta Quadrant without knowing about the Federation at all.
Also,
The Hirogen home system, apparently? In Voyager they're supposed to be fully nomadic, having lost or abandoned their homeworld. Being next door to an all consuming nightmare planet would make me go space nomad, too.
Data did not share the crew's views on his emotional development. He would describe every feeling in technical terminology ("accustomed inputs are anticipated, and their absence noted"), what they saw as sympathy and understanding were his hard wired ethical rules, even his bond with Spot was because he took on a responsibility that his ethics required him to uphold. Even his desire to become better was coded in and he could see the subroutine activating and see how it recorded failures or successes.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
Am I weird for thinking the entire time, since I first saw it, that his feeling rage when killing the Borg drone was supposed to be Lore, through the Borg, somehow subtly influencing him to feel emotions?
No, that was the point. It was also why, even when he turned off the safeties and put himself and Geordi in actual danger he still couldn't reproduce the feeling on his own.
Data did not share the crew's views on his emotional development. He would describe every feeling in technical terminology ("accustomed inputs are anticipated, and their absence noted"), what they saw as sympathy and understanding were his hard wired ethical rules, even his bond with Spot was because he took on a responsibility that his ethics required him to uphold. Even his desire to become better was coded in and he could see the subroutine activating and see how it recorded failures or successes.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
The context around that quote is what makes my case for me. Yes, that is what Maddox said. Maddox also changed his opinion on Data by the end of the episode. Consistently the view of "it is just a machine" is shown to be absolutely wrong. The writers went a different way, and that is fine. The earlier episode were not showing projection though. Just because Data was aware of the process of his emotions does not make it different.
Or to quote from the same episode "Commander Riker has dramatically demonstrated to this court that Lieutenant Commander Data is a machine. Do we deny that? No. Because it is not relevant. We too are machines, just machines of a different type."
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
I'm watching First Contact and this plot is non sensical, but hey, Ben Wyatt is flying the Defiant.
Apparently the Borg raised the ships temperature 10 degrees....to 39.1c. Which means the Enterprise's regular temperature is 85f. They're running around the ship in full jumpsuits in 85 degree weather with no breeze? Starfleet is crazy. Did the Borg assimilate the McPoyle's and thats why they like the thermometer set to 100F? Just gotta have that damp sticky look?
Its weird that despite knowing they can de-assimilate their crew members, Picard is just going around guns blazing. He rips a chip out of the guts of an ensign he was going to bash with a tommy gun after shooting them like 30 times.
And Data bangs the Borg Queen? And in the end she has a terminator skull?
Oh my god Worf says "Assimilate this!" right before blowing up a deflector dish full of Borg.
And Lily helps Zefram Cochrane build the first warp ship but nobody knows who she is? Nice to see people of color are getting their due recognition in the 24th century...
I do like Robert Picardo's and Ethan Philips' cameos though. And James Cromwell is great.
As a movie its fun and entertaining, but as a Star Trek fan this movie would have made a lot more sense if it came out between season 4 and 5 or something, pre Hugh. At least it wouldnt have walked back/ignored a bunch of Picard's development in I, Borg.
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I hope they do something with Gywn's realization that it couldn't be her father because the illusion was kind to her. That really reminded me of Odo in Heart of Stone. I also hope she notices that the others came to help her while she was about to leave them all to die. I also agree that she's going to end up captain—that'll probably be the season finale after she finally accepts that her father is evil.
As for the tricorders, I like the design. I'm not sure we can use to determine when the Protostar launched, though. Just look at how much phaser rifles changed between 2364 and 2379.
That said, I can't wait to get those phasers in STO. Space Barbie, go!
Speculation on upcoming episodes:
•They'll discover a) why the Diviner wants the ship or b) why he hates the Federation.
•The Diviner and Robo Vader will find them and capture the team and the ship.
•Gwyn defects when the Diviner mistreats the rest of the team.
Well humans have survived falls after reaching terminal velocity. Maybe Anbo-Jyutsu has perfected the art of falling so that all of your bones are broken, a bunch of organs are in bad shape, and you still are alive long enough to be transported to the nearest hospital waiting to patch up your dumb ass. Seems like almost the exact type of stupid for the Federation.
Now I come to think about it, all you’d really need are portable inertial dampeners for smaller loads.
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Rule of Acquisition #47: Fuck Cancer
That's just Economics 101.
What you leave behind tonight, you can always watch tomorrow.
Wait why do you say that? Do we actually see evidence of that in a show? All I remember is quark thinking he's dying because "the most expensive doctor on ferenginar" tells him so and then when it turns out he isn't dying his first reaction is happiness at his he'll be able to sue for malpractice.
Honestly given how Quark reacts to nuclear weapons this tracks.
I think Chang's ship is piloted using a wheel like a sailing ship, two steps forward one step back I guess.
General Chang is great though. Gorkon has that dope cane, but Chang is just too cool.
Decided to watch Generations as well. Tuvok's back! This time serving on the Enterprise-B with John Connor's foster mom!
Emotion chip data is pretty great, although I'm not sure why his homebrew chip was massive while Soong's was smaller than a thumbnail.
Also one of Picard's kids gets an Aliens Space Marine EVAC Fighter so I guess the films exist in the Star Trek universe and make a come back as part of a retro obsession with the 1990s? (okay, its not labeled, but I saw the toy and had to look it up because I had that toy as a kid; also since John Connor's foster mom is also Vasquez from Aliens I guess thats 2 Aliens references in the movie)
I'm not sure I understand the ribbon though, it travels around the galaxy on a 39 year cycle? But was also undetected by the transports El-Aurian refugees? Cant get a spaceship near it but it doesnt damage planets? Its also a time machine?
Wow, I can’t believe I never clocked her as Vasquez.
In the Season 7 Episode, Dogs of War, Liquidator Brunt is outlining all of the progressive changes the Grand Nagus and Moogi have made and he gets to "free healthcare for..." and he's interrupted by Quark shrieking, but he's clearly saying "everyone".
The emotion chip for Data has always felt to me like the biggest misstep with his character. The show spends a rather large amount of time building up the fact that data has emotional capacity that just looks very different than what everyone would expect. Then it gets just casually thrown out for one movie for no really apparent reason. I really wish they had chosen to keep down the path where everyone but Data could see how his emotions influences his decisions until he finally figured it out.
Eh? The emotion chip first turns up in Brothers, the first Lore episode. And basically every one he turns up in after that.
I agree it’s not a great idea, for exactly the reasons you state, but it’s not something they threw together for one of the movies.
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I thought they had healthcare but you just rack up infinite medical debt
I like the idea the chip was Soonhg realizing he'd die before Data could fully develop and made a chip so he could see his son "complete" . Otherwise I really loathe it as a concept
I think the idea was to have Data evolve as a being before giving him emotions, so he wouldn't wind up like Lore.
Sounds about right.
It was probably worse than an American fever dream originally, but after he hooked up with Moogie one of Zek's big reforms was free healthcare.
I wasn't going to say anything, but yeah that scene gave me major MAGA vibes.
True, but that part never bothers me. It is a rare moment (3 episodes including both parts of a 2 parter) that doesn't really change the way the character is going. They continue to grow Data in emotional ways, and how he continues to strive for this emotional ability. I will say by the time we got to Descent that the ground work had been abandoned so it isn't entirely on the movie. It was still something salvageable because it works within the framework still since Lore was manipulating the input. I mostly throw it on the movie though because it is the only time they use it before deciding it was a bad idea.
He could explain pulling the trigger on Fajo as the resolution of an ethical conflict, yet when he felt emotion killing the Borg drone, he could only describe the feeling as anger. There was a difference he could feel, but not articulate.
When Crusher or Troi said, "Data, don't you see that's just as much an emotion as laughter or crying," to him that is an echo of what Maddox said - "You are assigning feelings to it because it looks human, but it's a machine."
Also In Theory really is just a whole episode about why robot fucking fanfic wouldn’t be as fun as you think.
The episode where he dates someone is I think a great illustration of this.
Yes, I acknowledge I'm a bit of a sucker when it comes to my empathetic response - I have trouble not answering the recorded voice in my office's elevator, though I know the mechanism behind it is not sapient or, for that matter, much more complex than the ones that just went *bing!* at me - but this is one of those places where I think its worth erring on the side of generosity and benefit of the doubt.
If Data was a fully human person and just had an extreme, specific processing method for the world he'd still be sentient and the things he expressed would still be considered feelings.
He'd almost certainly be considered to have a mental disability relating to how he processes those feelings but he'd be a person without a doubt.
Data creates feelings via logical assumptions that are quite often incorrect. This is just an inverse way of how many people have feelings then adjust their logical assumptions to make them feel more correct. Which is why it comes across as unnatural/inhuman and struggles with more front loaded emotional concepts like comedy or romance.
I think there's more going on there than the sum of his parts.
Am I weird for thinking the entire time, since I first saw it, that his feeling rage when killing the Borg drone was supposed to be Lore, through the Borg, somehow subtly influencing him to feel emotions?
Also,
No, that was the point. It was also why, even when he turned off the safeties and put himself and Geordi in actual danger he still couldn't reproduce the feeling on his own.
The context around that quote is what makes my case for me. Yes, that is what Maddox said. Maddox also changed his opinion on Data by the end of the episode. Consistently the view of "it is just a machine" is shown to be absolutely wrong. The writers went a different way, and that is fine. The earlier episode were not showing projection though. Just because Data was aware of the process of his emotions does not make it different.
Or to quote from the same episode "Commander Riker has dramatically demonstrated to this court that Lieutenant Commander Data is a machine. Do we deny that? No. Because it is not relevant. We too are machines, just machines of a different type."
Apparently the Borg raised the ships temperature 10 degrees....to 39.1c. Which means the Enterprise's regular temperature is 85f. They're running around the ship in full jumpsuits in 85 degree weather with no breeze? Starfleet is crazy. Did the Borg assimilate the McPoyle's and thats why they like the thermometer set to 100F? Just gotta have that damp sticky look?
Its weird that despite knowing they can de-assimilate their crew members, Picard is just going around guns blazing. He rips a chip out of the guts of an ensign he was going to bash with a tommy gun after shooting them like 30 times.
And Data bangs the Borg Queen? And in the end she has a terminator skull?
Oh my god Worf says "Assimilate this!" right before blowing up a deflector dish full of Borg.
And Lily helps Zefram Cochrane build the first warp ship but nobody knows who she is? Nice to see people of color are getting their due recognition in the 24th century...
I do like Robert Picardo's and Ethan Philips' cameos though. And James Cromwell is great.
As a movie its fun and entertaining, but as a Star Trek fan this movie would have made a lot more sense if it came out between season 4 and 5 or something, pre Hugh. At least it wouldnt have walked back/ignored a bunch of Picard's development in I, Borg.