Hey, it's not like huge numbers of people with massive mortgages that they can't afford has ever backfired before, right?
I mean, you would hope that the banks would take precautions to avoid the kinds of multiple mortgage overleveraging (ie, a person having 6 mortgages with no ability to secure income beyond rent) that was a problem with the GFC.
But despite happening literally less than 15 years ago, I don't have confidence in that.
Here's hoping that the LNP either lose the election, or at least it goes on the same pile of "Yeah we'll do that" that most of their other promises go on.
Is it though, or is it 'The LNP/Nats have utterly failed us, time to swing for an independent' and then just grabbing randomly at people offering easy solutions.
It probably doesn't matter either way though; the votes are still cast the same way.
I at least still get heartened by the 'Doesn't hold a hose' sign in my neighbours front yard.
Edit: ABC running a line similar to me this morning:
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Not necessarily a good thing for either party. The US 2021 election also had record turnout, and a lot of those turned out to vote for the orange baboon.
Not necessarily a good thing for either party. The US 2021 election also had record turnout, and a lot of those turned out to vote for the orange baboon.
But it's better than the alternative. One of the reasons the orange baboon succeeded, was because a lot of people who wouldn't have voted for him, stayed home.
Universal voting may suck, but it's also the best bulwark against an extremist position, because it's just generally unappealing.
If you allowed people not particularly interested in politics to abstain, I would bet the house that you'ld see significant increases in vote share for Palmer/Hanson, because the people who vote for them would vote, but the people who think they're nuts but otherwise aren't interested, wouldn't show up.
That's one of the reasons why the American right have swung so hard. They don't need to win the majority of their district. They just need to win a majority of people determined enough to show up. And fanatics show up.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Oh I've got nothing against compulsory voting at all.
It's not a bulwark against anything though, looking at the terrible LNP governments we elect time after time.
At least compulsory voting means you have a solid grasp on how much your countrymen suck. Without it, we'd get to have all the crazies in power but no clear signal whether you really should jump ship.
Oh I've got nothing against compulsory voting at all.
It's not a bulwark against anything though, looking at the terrible LNP governments we elect time after time.
Oh, absolutely, we've had shitty leadership from the LNP.
But that's because...
1) The LNP can pass as respectable for the most part.
2) The Murdoch media factor in on the edges (rather than the US where they're ride-or-die). Both in covering for LNP, but also convincing Australia that "economy = stock market".
3) Labor tend to punch themselves in the dick way too often (and that's expanded on by 2). I'm not sure if Albanese is good or not, but he's definitely uninspiring a lot of the time.
But the vast majority of the electorate (though not enough) tend to shun Palmer/Hanson, at least in public.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
At least compulsory voting means you have a solid grasp on how much your countrymen suck. Without it, we'd get to have all the crazies in power but no clear signal whether you really should jump ship.
If the majority of your own populace cant be bothered to make the choice for or against having an idiot in power, whats the difference? Get out anyway.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Nah.
FPTP means people are stuck between orange baboon and the same old shit sandwich.
So it's no surprise they don't want to eat it.
Here we are very fortunate to have ranked choice and mandatory voting.
Also, a fully independent non-partisan electoral commission. While the two you point out are better than the alternatives (FPTP and voluntary voting), I can at least see a rationale behind alternatives.
Partisans directly in charge of the election structure, system, implementation and execution? That just seems batshit crazy, and it was inevitable that the current circumstance in the US would happen eventually.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Also an electoral commission that properly penalises outright lying during election campaigns.
Yeah, that would be real nice. Not going to happen though because the AEC is pretty toothless when they come to that and don't really have the ability to punish anyone. They refer cases to the AFP who then promptly do fuck all with them.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Nah.
FPTP means people are stuck between orange baboon and the same old shit sandwich.
So it's no surprise they don't want to eat it.
Here we are very fortunate to have ranked choice and mandatory voting.
I wasn't against mandatory voting. I love our voting system.
I was just pointing out it doesn't matter if it exists or not for determining if you should get out out a country when it gets that bad.
I'm not sure I agree when it's unclear how many people are apathetic because any outcome works for them or they don't care, and how many are apathetic because they get kicked both ways.
If the country is in the latter case, then I'm not sure it's a clear sign that it's worth abandoning.
The former case is worth abandoning because the majority of people are against you. In the latter, it's the system that's against you, and perhaps that can be changed.
I don't know that sounds like it's a pretty good dodge on the issue really. What he's trying to get wedged on is to say "well boys should be able to play in girls leagues..." which manages to be insulting both to trans- people and give the Coalition the sound bite they're looking for.
EDIT: Of course one could imagine a world in which the media would ask about something else, like bushfire preparedness, flood preparedness, renewable energy adoption...
electricitylikesme on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
It was definitely a dodge. It can unfortunately be taken a few different ways, so while the LNP didn't get the soundbite they wanted, you can be sure it'll still get negative headlines.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Imagine if labor actually had a leader who wanted to have genuinely different positions to the current idiots in charge.
I guess that's my point. Seems he won't dare say trans folk are the gender with which they identify.
I'm content for this election not to be redirected into the US import culture war as a way to launder everything else the Coalition has done.
Not to mention that it's barely the government's business to start with setting as how it's sports specifically.
For what its worth I agree, but the people actually affected by these issues probably feel differently. But then those people were never likely to be Liberal voters in the first place, so this is, unfortunately, probably a calculated move.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
That was a non answer.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Scotty has finally cracked, ranting about how he's fed up with Australians walking on eggshells in fear of offending someone.
Perrottet has also been dragged into this whole thing supporting Scotty and Deves, which, I'm not exactly surprised the Opus Dei cultist is anti-LGBTQI.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
strategically the right move - what are they going to do, vote Liberal? But I would have liked to see a stance.
It's a trap though: Murdoch wants a stance so it can be used as a wedge issue with the religious right. There's no equivalent left faction, so it's all win for him. The reality is it's going to be a heck of lot easier to bully an early term labor government into moving on these issues, and forcing the Liberals to run on "we will strip Australians of rights!" later on, then to get the religious fundamentalists to do something they don't want to do.
These are issues which ubiquitously cause a bunch unrest before they're passed, and then everyone loses interest after they pass.
strategically the right move - what are they going to do, vote Liberal? But I would have liked to see a stance.
It's a trap though: Murdoch wants a stance so it can be used as a wedge issue with the religious right. There's no equivalent left faction, so it's all win for him. The reality is it's going to be a heck of lot easier to bully an early term labor government into moving on these issues, and forcing the Liberals to run on "we will strip Australians of rights!" later on, then to get the religious fundamentalists to do something they don't want to do.
These are issues which ubiquitously cause a bunch unrest before they're passed, and then everyone loses interest after they pass.
Yup. While taking a position would be a great signal to the marginalized and their supporters, the general ignorance of the electorate might be swayed against if Labor take a hard position. Because LNP/Murdoch will absolutely spin a hard Labor position in support as pro "indoctrination/groomer" bullshit.
I know more than a few people who aren't particularly bigoted, but definitely have a "don't throw it in my face" reaction. It's sad that they're only comfortable around gay/trans as long as they don't have to embrace those people are gay/trans, but it's where a good portion of the middle (at least anecdotally) are.
I'd prefer it was all out in the open, but I'd rather win by not making it an issue, than lose by taking a stance, which will see the LNP continuing to try and suspend/strip rights away from these people.
I am so fucking tired of seeing these evil shits win, not because their ideas are "better", but because they're more capable of triggering the reactionary parts of the brains of a majority of the constituency.
Fuck off Labor. This evil shit needs to end, not continue. It's inspired governmenrs around the world to do the same, and it just perpetuates misery.
AND IT WON'T EVEN WIN VOTES. For those whom this is important, they will not vote Labor anyway.
The part that infuriates me, is the distinction, and the hypocrisy of it.
People who arrive by boat, are criminals. People who arrive by plane, though? No problems there.
The amount spent on the former, vs the amount spent on the latter, and the methods involved, is just so disproportionate.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather we have a higher acceptance of immigration, but the clear racist overtones (how many white people arrive by boat?), and that if you've got a little money and a compliant home government, you're not going to piss off the ABF, on who we accept, really annoys the shit out of me.
This postie ditching (presumed empty) liberal party postal vote forms is funny.
But no, just fill the reply paid envelopes that are meant to take the postal vote applications to the liberal party with rocks instead.
Not that I know how these reply paid envelopes work.
Do they charge more for weight?
But yeah.
I'm incredibly galled by the Liberal party man-in-the-middle-ing supposed secret question and answers that are meant to be used by the AEC to verify postal votes.
Even if everyone is allowed to give out the postal vote forms, they should not be able to send out envelopes that send them anywhere but the AEC.
Looks like there's a limit on reply-paid weight.
So perhaps just seal and post empty envelopes to the Liberal party instead, so that they get charged for the delivery.
Posts
I mean, you would hope that the banks would take precautions to avoid the kinds of multiple mortgage overleveraging (ie, a person having 6 mortgages with no ability to secure income beyond rent) that was a problem with the GFC.
But despite happening literally less than 15 years ago, I don't have confidence in that.
Here's hoping that the LNP either lose the election, or at least it goes on the same pile of "Yeah we'll do that" that most of their other promises go on.
So basically, nothing has changed so far.
It makes me sad that ~1/12 Australians have declared for Hanson or Palmer.
At least the worst haven't been fully incorporated into the mainstream conservative party like it has the Republicans or Tories.
But 8% of the public thinking "LNP? Not faschy enough for me!".
It probably doesn't matter either way though; the votes are still cast the same way.
I at least still get heartened by the 'Doesn't hold a hose' sign in my neighbours front yard.
Edit: ABC running a line similar to me this morning:
Why Queensland is home to maverick politicians like Clive Palmer and Pauline Hanson
GG
But it's better than the alternative. One of the reasons the orange baboon succeeded, was because a lot of people who wouldn't have voted for him, stayed home.
Universal voting may suck, but it's also the best bulwark against an extremist position, because it's just generally unappealing.
If you allowed people not particularly interested in politics to abstain, I would bet the house that you'ld see significant increases in vote share for Palmer/Hanson, because the people who vote for them would vote, but the people who think they're nuts but otherwise aren't interested, wouldn't show up.
That's one of the reasons why the American right have swung so hard. They don't need to win the majority of their district. They just need to win a majority of people determined enough to show up. And fanatics show up.
It's not a bulwark against anything though, looking at the terrible LNP governments we elect time after time.
Oh, absolutely, we've had shitty leadership from the LNP.
But that's because...
1) The LNP can pass as respectable for the most part.
2) The Murdoch media factor in on the edges (rather than the US where they're ride-or-die). Both in covering for LNP, but also convincing Australia that "economy = stock market".
3) Labor tend to punch themselves in the dick way too often (and that's expanded on by 2). I'm not sure if Albanese is good or not, but he's definitely uninspiring a lot of the time.
But the vast majority of the electorate (though not enough) tend to shun Palmer/Hanson, at least in public.
If the majority of your own populace cant be bothered to make the choice for or against having an idiot in power, whats the difference? Get out anyway.
FPTP means people are stuck between orange baboon and the same old shit sandwich.
So it's no surprise they don't want to eat it.
Here we are very fortunate to have ranked choice and mandatory voting.
Also, a fully independent non-partisan electoral commission. While the two you point out are better than the alternatives (FPTP and voluntary voting), I can at least see a rationale behind alternatives.
Partisans directly in charge of the election structure, system, implementation and execution? That just seems batshit crazy, and it was inevitable that the current circumstance in the US would happen eventually.
That would be real nice.
I wasn't against mandatory voting. I love our voting system.
I was just pointing out it doesn't matter if it exists or not for determining if you should get out out a country when it gets that bad.
I'm not sure I agree when it's unclear how many people are apathetic because any outcome works for them or they don't care, and how many are apathetic because they get kicked both ways.
If the country is in the latter case, then I'm not sure it's a clear sign that it's worth abandoning.
The former case is worth abandoning because the majority of people are against you. In the latter, it's the system that's against you, and perhaps that can be changed.
They arent changing this system.
I don't know that sounds like it's a pretty good dodge on the issue really. What he's trying to get wedged on is to say "well boys should be able to play in girls leagues..." which manages to be insulting both to trans- people and give the Coalition the sound bite they're looking for.
EDIT: Of course one could imagine a world in which the media would ask about something else, like bushfire preparedness, flood preparedness, renewable energy adoption...
Wouldn't that be nice.
I'm content for this election not to be redirected into the US import culture war as a way to launder everything else the Coalition has done.
Not to mention that it's barely the government's business to start with setting as how it's sports specifically.
For what its worth I agree, but the people actually affected by these issues probably feel differently. But then those people were never likely to be Liberal voters in the first place, so this is, unfortunately, probably a calculated move.
Perrottet has also been dragged into this whole thing supporting Scotty and Deves, which, I'm not exactly surprised the Opus Dei cultist is anti-LGBTQI.
strategically the right move - what are they going to do, vote Liberal? But I would have liked to see a stance.
It's a trap though: Murdoch wants a stance so it can be used as a wedge issue with the religious right. There's no equivalent left faction, so it's all win for him. The reality is it's going to be a heck of lot easier to bully an early term labor government into moving on these issues, and forcing the Liberals to run on "we will strip Australians of rights!" later on, then to get the religious fundamentalists to do something they don't want to do.
These are issues which ubiquitously cause a bunch unrest before they're passed, and then everyone loses interest after they pass.
Yup. While taking a position would be a great signal to the marginalized and their supporters, the general ignorance of the electorate might be swayed against if Labor take a hard position. Because LNP/Murdoch will absolutely spin a hard Labor position in support as pro "indoctrination/groomer" bullshit.
I know more than a few people who aren't particularly bigoted, but definitely have a "don't throw it in my face" reaction. It's sad that they're only comfortable around gay/trans as long as they don't have to embrace those people are gay/trans, but it's where a good portion of the middle (at least anecdotally) are.
I'd prefer it was all out in the open, but I'd rather win by not making it an issue, than lose by taking a stance, which will see the LNP continuing to try and suspend/strip rights away from these people.
I am so fucking tired of seeing these evil shits win, not because their ideas are "better", but because they're more capable of triggering the reactionary parts of the brains of a majority of the constituency.
Fuck off Labor. This evil shit needs to end, not continue. It's inspired governmenrs around the world to do the same, and it just perpetuates misery.
AND IT WON'T EVEN WIN VOTES. For those whom this is important, they will not vote Labor anyway.
The part that infuriates me, is the distinction, and the hypocrisy of it.
People who arrive by boat, are criminals. People who arrive by plane, though? No problems there.
The amount spent on the former, vs the amount spent on the latter, and the methods involved, is just so disproportionate.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather we have a higher acceptance of immigration, but the clear racist overtones (how many white people arrive by boat?), and that if you've got a little money and a compliant home government, you're not going to piss off the ABF, on who we accept, really annoys the shit out of me.
Someone I work with went there and she and her husband got it, and she said Albo spent a long time in the crowd talking to people.
But no, just fill the reply paid envelopes that are meant to take the postal vote applications to the liberal party with rocks instead.
Not that I know how these reply paid envelopes work.
Do they charge more for weight?
But yeah.
I'm incredibly galled by the Liberal party man-in-the-middle-ing supposed secret question and answers that are meant to be used by the AEC to verify postal votes.
Even if everyone is allowed to give out the postal vote forms, they should not be able to send out envelopes that send them anywhere but the AEC.
So perhaps just seal and post empty envelopes to the Liberal party instead, so that they get charged for the delivery.
But I wonder how many tolls, levies and excises they have planned.