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[Canadian Politics Thread] Government-running Cons accused of running cons in government

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    My condo board has been trying for nearly 10 years to move off heating oil, but going to a pellet boiler would cost us over $50,000 and no government has offered more than token help to do so (The NWT said we could get a $2k grant). So we're still using a 44 year old heating oil boiler.

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    DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    Daimar wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    In fact, they've been taking it away from more and more places. Not YK yet, though, but I imagine it's on the list.

    Makes sense, with climate change heating the planet up there are fewer places that need it.

    It's not just heating/energy costs that the allowance covers. Everything is more expensive up there if it isn't built or grown or caught locally. Like a head of lettuce in Iqaluit could cost $30-$40 because it all has to be imported, and there are no real roads or railways that go there, so it's all by boat. If it weren't for the allowance a lot of people (especially people with specific skills like doctors, lawyers, etc.) wouldn't be willing to move to and live in those locations, which can really hurt those communities and their ability to survive. I've never been further North than like...Montreal, but I'm a big supporter of the northern allowance because it helps those communities continue to exist.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Blarghy wrote: »
    The carbon tax continues to be one of the most short-sighted own-goals of the Trudeau government, politically. We need to take way more action on tackling climate change and making changes to our energy grid, but this was always a poor choice in how to do so.

    If you have to explain multiple steps for how it works to the average voter, or it relies on them doing math, you've already lost a lot of them. Even if it benefits them. It's such a softball for their opponents to campaign against. Yes, the conservatives will always find something to complain about, but this was practically giftwrapped for them.

    From an incentives perspective, carbon taxes are the most effective way to tackle pollution, since its meant to align incentives on pollution with the polluters pocketbook. That being said, it is of course very easy to attack as being a tax that increases costs and is an excellent demonstration of how hard it is to actually tackle climate change.

    It also tackles carbon everywhere it turns up, rather than just where regulators think to look. Embodied Carbon is the new hotness in sustainability for buildings, and it can make for some counterintuitive results because you just never really think that deeply about it.

    Does the increased structural concrete necessary to support the added dead load of a green roof cancel out the benefit of lowered albedo and reduced runoff? &c. Plus, incentivizing creating the manufacturing process that actually eliminates carbon emissions because it makes it cheaper compared to competitors out of the box, rather than cost competitive after a sheaf of grant paperwork

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    Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    I really hope the carbon tax isn't killed. :(

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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    I really hope the carbon tax isn't killed. :(

    As things stand, I feel the liberals are going to tank the next election and the conservatives absolutely rip it up.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    The carbon tax continues to be one of the most short-sighted own-goals of the Trudeau government, politically. We need to take way more action on tackling climate change and making changes to our energy grid, but this was always a poor choice in how to do so.

    If you have to explain multiple steps for how it works to the average voter, or it relies on them doing math, you've already lost a lot of them. Even if it benefits them. It's such a softball for their opponents to campaign against. Yes, the conservatives will always find something to complain about, but this was practically giftwrapped for them.

    You don't need multiple steps to explain the carbon tax. It's extremely straightforward and one of if not the simplest way to address pollution.

    The problem is not that it's complicated, the problem is that it's unpopular. People don't want to pay more for their fuel. Or for anything really. People don't want to change.

    shryke on
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    El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The carbon tax continues to be one of the most short-sighted own-goals of the Trudeau government, politically. We need to take way more action on tackling climate change and making changes to our energy grid, but this was always a poor choice in how to do so.

    If you have to explain multiple steps for how it works to the average voter, or it relies on them doing math, you've already lost a lot of them. Even if it benefits them. It's such a softball for their opponents to campaign against. Yes, the conservatives will always find something to complain about, but this was practically giftwrapped for them.

    You don't need multiple steps to explain the carbon tax. It's extremely straightforward and one of if not the simplest way to address pollution.

    The problem is not that it's complicated, the problem is that it's unpopular. People don't want to pay more for their fuel. Or for anything really. People don't want to change.

    Yeah, people want bold steps from the government to address climate change, but they don’t want to be the ones to change…even when the goverment pays the increase back to them.

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    TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The carbon tax continues to be one of the most short-sighted own-goals of the Trudeau government, politically. We need to take way more action on tackling climate change and making changes to our energy grid, but this was always a poor choice in how to do so.

    If you have to explain multiple steps for how it works to the average voter, or it relies on them doing math, you've already lost a lot of them. Even if it benefits them. It's such a softball for their opponents to campaign against. Yes, the conservatives will always find something to complain about, but this was practically giftwrapped for them.

    You don't need multiple steps to explain the carbon tax. It's extremely straightforward and one of if not the simplest way to address pollution.

    The problem is not that it's complicated, the problem is that it's unpopular. People don't want to pay more for their fuel. Or for anything really. People don't want to change.

    The multiple steps being that you also have to explain to individuals the rebates that will offset their new up-front costs.

    It's honestly like many government programs we have, where most people actually save money, while the program is paid for by raising their taxes slightly, and by much less than the amount they're saving. But they see 'tax go up', and refuse to have very simple math explained to them, and get mad at this thing that actually benefits them. There are a lot of voters out there, where you could introduce an efficient government program that costs them $1000 less a year, paid for with $500 added to their taxes, and even though they're ahead $500, they're just going to complain that their taxes went up.

    Anyway, I think I'm mostly just grumpy that we're probably on track to get stuck with the Cons for at least a few years, because the average voter refuses to think.

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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    The carbon tax continues to be one of the most short-sighted own-goals of the Trudeau government, politically. We need to take way more action on tackling climate change and making changes to our energy grid, but this was always a poor choice in how to do so.

    If you have to explain multiple steps for how it works to the average voter, or it relies on them doing math, you've already lost a lot of them. Even if it benefits them. It's such a softball for their opponents to campaign against. Yes, the conservatives will always find something to complain about, but this was practically giftwrapped for them.

    You don't need multiple steps to explain the carbon tax. It's extremely straightforward and one of if not the simplest way to address pollution.

    The problem is not that it's complicated, the problem is that it's unpopular. People don't want to pay more for their fuel. Or for anything really. People don't want to change.

    The multiple steps being that you also have to explain to individuals the rebates that will offset their new up-front costs.

    It's honestly like many government programs we have, where most people actually save money, while the program is paid for by raising their taxes slightly, and by much less than the amount they're saving. But they see 'tax go up', and refuse to have very simple math explained to them, and get mad at this thing that actually benefits them. There are a lot of voters out there, where you could introduce an efficient government program that costs them $1000 less a year, paid for with $500 added to their taxes, and even though they're ahead $500, they're just going to complain that their taxes went up.

    Anyway, I think I'm mostly just grumpy that we're probably on track to get stuck with the Cons for at least a few years, because the average voter refuses to think.

    They don't but generally, we can all agree it's time for Trudeau to go. If he refuses to step down, what happens after is on him.

    Also "Tax goes up" means less money on your paycheck. If you are already struggling to get by week to week, the refund at the end is inconsequential. It's expensive to be poor

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    My city just swapped to compost and clear bag garbage and people just hate it for no reason

    They even gave everyone a compost bin and it and recycling are still weekly just that garbage is biweekly and clear bags so you can't just toss stuff in but people hate change ange making people's jobs easier I guess

    They'll get over it but it'll be like a 5 year cry of "being back our worse garbage service'

    icGJy2C.png
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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    My city just swapped to compost and clear bag garbage and people just hate it for no reason

    They even gave everyone a compost bin and it and recycling are still weekly just that garbage is biweekly and clear bags so you can't just toss stuff in but people hate change ange making people's jobs easier I guess

    They'll get over it but it'll be like a 5 year cry of "being back our worse garbage service'
    It'll take longer than 5 years. My partner's parents sometimes still complain about garbage sorting in New Brunswick. Usually, funny enough, when they visit us and have to deal with Nova Scotia having a slightly different method of sorting and what an incredible hardship it is for them to put things in the right bag.

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    My city just swapped to compost and clear bag garbage and people just hate it for no reason

    They even gave everyone a compost bin and it and recycling are still weekly just that garbage is biweekly and clear bags so you can't just toss stuff in but people hate change ange making people's jobs easier I guess

    They'll get over it but it'll be like a 5 year cry of "being back our worse garbage service'
    It'll take longer than 5 years. My partner's parents sometimes still complain about garbage sorting in New Brunswick. Usually, funny enough, when they visit us and have to deal with Nova Scotia having a slightly different method of sorting and what an incredible hardship it is for them to put things in the right bag.

    Yep. NS started getting green bins in the nineties and I know people who are still griping about things like that.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    My city just swapped to compost and clear bag garbage and people just hate it for no reason

    They even gave everyone a compost bin and it and recycling are still weekly just that garbage is biweekly and clear bags so you can't just toss stuff in but people hate change ange making people's jobs easier I guess

    They'll get over it but it'll be like a 5 year cry of "being back our worse garbage service'
    It'll take longer than 5 years. My partner's parents sometimes still complain about garbage sorting in New Brunswick. Usually, funny enough, when they visit us and have to deal with Nova Scotia having a slightly different method of sorting and what an incredible hardship it is for them to put things in the right bag.

    Yep. NS started getting green bins in the nineties and I know people who are still griping about things like that.

    Society advances one funeral at a time

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    The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    moniker wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    My city just swapped to compost and clear bag garbage and people just hate it for no reason

    They even gave everyone a compost bin and it and recycling are still weekly just that garbage is biweekly and clear bags so you can't just toss stuff in but people hate change ange making people's jobs easier I guess

    They'll get over it but it'll be like a 5 year cry of "being back our worse garbage service'
    It'll take longer than 5 years. My partner's parents sometimes still complain about garbage sorting in New Brunswick. Usually, funny enough, when they visit us and have to deal with Nova Scotia having a slightly different method of sorting and what an incredible hardship it is for them to put things in the right bag.

    Yep. NS started getting green bins in the nineties and I know people who are still griping about things like that.

    Society advances one funeral at a time

    It'd be less funny if the police budget didn't get like doubled every year

    So much wasted money on so many dipshits who get free raises for being cops unlike well the rest of us lmfao and also there all fucking shit i also love looking at a car SUV snd being like yup that's a erzat vehicle dunno what we need that fire power but there it is

    The Cow King on
    icGJy2C.png
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Here in Ontario I've never heard anyone complain about the blue bin or the green bin system. Or even the grey bins back when that was still a thing.

    People just kinda shrugged and sorted their stuff as best they could.

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    ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Completely unrelated, but what's it going to take to reform the system for actually enforcing traffic violations? There's just too many people on the road who should but be allowed to drive. I'm currently waiting out in an NSLC with my bike after someone cut me off at a 4-way and then wanted to have fisticuffs. 🫠

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Completely unrelated, but what's it going to take to reform the system for actually enforcing traffic violations? There's just too many people on the road who should but be allowed to drive. I'm currently waiting out in an NSLC with my bike after someone cut me off at a 4-way and then wanted to have fisticuffs. 🫠

    I've always been a big fan of more people installing dash cams, and police departments traffic enforcement giving a portion of any tickets they issue from submitted footage to the person who submitted it.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Completely unrelated, but what's it going to take to reform the system for actually enforcing traffic violations? There's just too many people on the road who should but be allowed to drive. I'm currently waiting out in an NSLC with my bike after someone cut me off at a 4-way and then wanted to have fisticuffs. 🫠

    Part of the problem is that if you enforce traffic violations, people might not be able to drive. Not being able to drive is pretty awful for a substantial majority of people in the country. If a few hundred pedestrians and cyclists die every year because we don’t care to ticket people for doing 90 in a 50 zone, that’s the blood price we’re happy to pay. It’s not like pedestrians or cyclists are real people anyways.


    As for the carbon tax: people just don’t don’t get it. Even some of my most lefty friends, family, and coworkers don’t believe it works as it does, despite explanations, and despite them seeing the money getting deposited into their bank accounts. And on the other end of the spectrum, I see people who complain about how it’s making it so expensive to commute in their F250 and to buy oil to keep their home heated to a reasonable 22° C, I’m just like dude, how can you be so close to understanding this but not getting it?

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    I think most folks are just keenly aware that the carbon tax and most green initiatives are thrust on the citizens/consumer while corporations can do whatever they please. We have an extremely high cost of living as it is and no one is cheering for anything making it more so.

    See: Losing plastic straws but airlines flying 10K+ empty flights during the pandemic to save their spots at airports.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Everyday is a new fuckery filled extravaganza with the UCP.

    So Alberta Health Services has been split up again into 3 parts, Primary Care, Continuing Care, Mental Health and Addictions . All the regional health authorities got merged into AHS back in 2008 which I think at the time was a good idea as every region was using their own EMR and a bunch of duplication of work across admin levels.

    Of course heading up these new divisions are people who are totally pro private health care. Easier to shave off chunks of health care when things are split up and with all the changes I suspect we will see hem trying to that crap soon. Doesn’t matter that the whole dynalife thing was a massive faliure.. full steam ahead.

    Oh and Danielle Smith will be sharing the stage with sentient bow tie fuckstick Tucker Carlson… awesome that isn’t chilling at all.

    Switch SW-6182-1526-0041
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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    The UCP convention last week was 110% all bout dismantling the government and attacking LGBTQ+ youth. That's it. Literally nothing about affordability or even the evergreen Carbon tax.

    They are going to fuck everything over as much as they can and leave what I hope is the NDP to pick up the pieces.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Sadness here in Winnipeg today, as the Bombers failed to bring home the Grey Cup yesterday.

    2 wins and 4 appearances in the last 4 years is some comfort.

    And big congrats to the Montreal Alouettes on their victory, they fought hard and emerged victorious from a great competition. Some of the post game reactions and celebrations by the team were very moving, loved to see it.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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    SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    It should have been the Argos vs the Bombers, but our offence completely shit the bed during the East Final. Our D was solid, but the O choked. Alas, our stellar run this season was just too good to last.

    That said, the Bombers are my second team (seeing as how my wife is a 'Pegger), so that was disappointing too. BUT! It was a hell of a game.... very exciting to watch. Right down to the wire.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    It should have been the Argos vs the Bombers, but our offence completely shit the bed during the East Final. Our D was solid, but the O choked. Alas, our stellar run this season was just too good to last.

    That said, the Bombers are my second team (seeing as how my wife is a 'Pegger), so that was disappointing too. BUT! It was a hell of a game.... very exciting to watch. Right down to the wire.

    225px-Fry_meme.png

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    SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    It should have been the Argos vs the Bombers, but our offence completely shit the bed during the East Final. Our D was solid, but the O choked. Alas, our stellar run this season was just too good to last.

    That said, the Bombers are my second team (seeing as how my wife is a 'Pegger), so that was disappointing too. BUT! It was a hell of a game.... very exciting to watch. Right down to the wire.

    225px-Fry_meme.png

    That's what they call themselves!!!

    Also... some people like that sorta thing. :smirk:

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited November 2023
    I sometimes think about getting a sweatshirt for a couple I know with certain proclivities, since they'll be able to say "It's from a friend in Winnipeg."

    (also fun fact it's apparently pre-order only, so I presume quite popular)

    Shadowen on
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Meanwhile, in Québec, the PQ now leads the CAQ in polls in every region of the province. This is the first time in a decade that the CAQ isn't first in the polls, and it happens just one year after the CAQ crushed the other parties in an election and won 72% of seats in parliament.

    While some credit is due to PSPP's charismatic and mature leadership style, a lot of this downfall is self-inflicted, as the CAQ flails around aimlessly from one populist gift to another while stumbling incompetently through major political issues without any clear long-term plan for the province. Their latest scandal is spending $7M to get the Kings to play a few practice games in Québec City (a gift to the city to desperately try to win back some votes after their crushing defeat in the recent by-election) while being in the middle of massive province-wide public service strikes blamed on the CAQ's refusal to give employees reasonable pay raises ("there's just not money for it"). And while, yes, $7M wouldn't cover 1% of 1% of the raises needed to end the strike, the optics of giving millions to US millionaires while at the exact same time saying they have no money for teachers and nurses just isn't working in their favour.

    Overall, the CAQ is a party that's quickly discovering that governing is a lot harder than winning elections.

    sig.gif
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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Someone seems to have set off a car bomb at the Rainbow Bridge border crossing just now. Two dead, per BBC.

    Not much else in terms of specifics yet, beyond people thinking whatever it was was deliberate.

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    DirtyboyDirtyboy Registered User regular
    Authorities are trying to get more video footage to figure out what actually happened due to conflicting witness reports. Like this is now hitting tweeter:

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Dirtyboy wrote: »
    Authorities are trying to get more video footage to figure out what actually happened due to conflicting witness reports. Like this is now hitting tweeter:


    Good Omens 3 is off to a hell of a start.

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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    A suicide bomber in a bentley is a new one

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    No explosives found so far, though. Seems like maybe less suicide bomber and more either drunk idiot or just a suicidal car crash.

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    DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    Here's a CBC article on the incident entitled "Right-wing U.S. media covered fiction as fact: A non-existent terrorist attack from Canada at Rainbow Bridge."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/border-incident-erroneous-reporting-1.7036978

    Mostly posting it for this funny quote:
    "I have been sounding the alarm bell about the northern border for a long time," said Vivek Ramaswamy during a lengthy interview about an incident he did not witness, was not a subject-matter expert on, and had no insight into.

    lol good stuff

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    BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    CTV forbids use of ‘Palestine,’ suppresses critical stories about Israel
    The journalists said senior producers and senior editors across the platforms of CTV’s parent company Bell Media have disparaged Palestinian guests, told employees that protests calling for a ceasefire should not be reported on, and blocked or delayed stories that included too much contextual information about Israel’s military occupation and regime of apartheid in Palestine.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    CTV forbids use of ‘Palestine,’ suppresses critical stories about Israel
    The journalists said senior producers and senior editors across the platforms of CTV’s parent company Bell Media have disparaged Palestinian guests, told employees that protests calling for a ceasefire should not be reported on, and blocked or delayed stories that included too much contextual information about Israel’s military occupation and regime of apartheid in Palestine.

    I think this is the part of this that has been most significant to me: There is a concerted effort in many organizations, not just news, but unions, charities, etc, to prevent any acknowledgment that the people who live in Palestine and especially Gaza are human beings. Not just being critical of statements or opinions, but straight up threatening people's livelihoods that they better not say anything acknowledging the humanity of Palestinians.

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    Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Anything is possible.
    Nova_C wrote: »
    CTV forbids use of ‘Palestine,’ suppresses critical stories about Israel
    The journalists said senior producers and senior editors across the platforms of CTV’s parent company Bell Media have disparaged Palestinian guests, told employees that protests calling for a ceasefire should not be reported on, and blocked or delayed stories that included too much contextual information about Israel’s military occupation and regime of apartheid in Palestine.

    I think this is the part of this that has been most significant to me: There is a concerted effort in many organizations, not just news, but unions, charities, etc, to prevent any acknowledgment that the people who live in Palestine and especially Gaza are human beings. Not just being critical of statements or opinions, but straight up threatening people's livelihoods that they better not say anything acknowledging the humanity of Palestinians.

    The lack of humanity has been chilling. Having people who are concerned about civilians have to condemn Hamas 17 x different ways before you can imply that maybe we should not bomb children has been very hard to watch.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Just to wrap up the "car crash or terrorist bomb?!" issue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQOr6meUvQ

    Yeah they Dukes of Hazzard'd that shit.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    I forget, how did the Mythbusters episode on if you could actually do that in real life end?

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I forget, how did the Mythbusters episode on if you could actually do that in real life end?

    "The car managed to jump 172 feet (51.6 m), three feet (90 cm) short of the estimated distance of the gorge jumped in the movie. However, the car crashed nose-down and was destroyed, busting the myth (and the car)."

    Thank you mythresults.com.

    Of course if one worked in the movie industry doing special effects (as they did), one probably was aware that stunt cars typically end up badly damaged if not totaled, especially from jumps.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I forget, how did the Mythbusters episode on if you could actually do that in real life end?

    A cursory google'ing indicates 'no, probably not, and even if you survived the car is going to be fuuuuucked'.

    Which is why shows and movies often have several on hand for different angles and uses, and apparently the Dukes of Hazard went through several hundred Chargers and Ambassadors over the course of the series.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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