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The 117th United States [Congress]

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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    the stuff that business and capital wants, that gets done.
    :/

    It's been ~5 years in the making from Congressional negotiations. They just finally managed to get the last bits finalized. Same as how the Music Modernization Act and Marakesh that got passed and implemented under Trump, but which he had no hand in.

    Also, the businesses and capital behind ocean going freight carriers very much did not want this. They wanted to keep screwing people.

    Right, but people have been murdering children with AR-15 rifles for decades

    You know legislatures can go through multiple bills at once right?

    And that this passage does not prevent other bills from passing?

    And there isn't a magic number of bills that can be passed?

    Oh and the reason gun control can't be passed is 50 senators with Rs next to their names.

    Yes, I know all of those things, I'm not a four year old

    This is super rude and patronizing.

    Then don’t set things off with a rude and patronizing tone of your own.

    Do you think you were dropping some unknown revaluation with your comment about decades of gun violence?

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'd argue when you can definitively say that a bill got through solely on it being in that narrow niche of corporatist bullshit that both parties agree on. Is when it's something that hasn't escaped the culture war. A point of case here is how the treasury department is able to use a private bank, US Bank, for unemployment and Medicaid cards. Culture war wise the GOP would be killing this because social safety net, but that bank gets a shit ton of money out of it and it is likely donating to their campaigns or they are making money off of that bank via stock holdings.

    Once you get outside of the culture war nonsense you do find shit getting passed and sometimes that has fuck all to do with "how can we fuck the poors." Now, you could argue that many of these cases are disputes between one group of wealthy entities and another, which might be true. You also get cases where it is being done with the common person in mind because without the culture war as a wedge, it's pretty easy for that to blow up on the person that decides "nah, fuck the average citizen."

    The shipping thing seems like it's a little of A, a couple megacorps were price gouging everyone for years. This then gets into how it was also a little of B, people are happy with rising prices and many have been suspecting price gouging is a culprit in this. Sounds like the bill puts the kibosh to at least some chunk of that price gouge, which helps freight businesses that were being fucked by it. This in turn could mean that the consumer sees prices slow down or maybe even reverse depending on what happens from here. You figure if the price gouging is cut significantly and the impacted companies don't just keep prices as they were, it probably means the consumer sees a noticeable difference. Granted, possible that they decide to be greedy fuckers and not adjust pricing at all.

    For anyone that might ask why would the GOP agree to this, when they are currently weaponizing inflation against the democrats. The gouged business might have enough clout to cause them electoral issues because business can still donate to campaigns and they can still blame politicians for having to cut pay or jobs. Also in order to properly weaponize inflation against democrats, the GOP also needs it to abate at some point. I mean, there is a reason why some of us say we have an issue where the GOP fucks everything up, gets voted out. Then democrats fix it, but still get punished because it wasn't fast enough according to the GOP and media, while also getting stuck with everything else the GOP fucked up, breaking on their watch and then eating the blame.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I'm not sure I follow what mass shootings have to do with expanding Federal Oversight and Regulatory Authority over international maritime containerized cargo.

    I also don't really follow how increased governmental regulation, and agency staffing to implement oversight, is self-evidently pro-business/ capital. It seems business vs business/ capital vs capital if anything, and fortunately pro-consumer considering it's aiming at fighting anti-competitive behavior among an oligopoly that literally ferries every good that crosses an ocean.

    This seems like an untrammeled good reform.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    I feel the most that corporate interests played with the shipping bill is that it likely ensured that not many congress critters could ignore it. I mean, too much money or not in your politics, if you hit a big enough industry, they are going to be able to signal boost an issue.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if inflation factored into this a little. No one that is the average citizen, is happy about rising prices. So some reform that cuts down on price gouging in theory means that those prices could go down, at the very least, it means the rate they increase will be slowed. Hell, if this kills some anti-competitive behavior in an industry in need of more competition, it can only be good for the consumer.

    Also not every win for a business interest is necessarily a loss for the average citizens. Sometimes a win for a business interest is also a win for the average citizen.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    I'm not sure I follow what mass shootings have to do with expanding Federal Oversight and Regulatory Authority over international maritime containerized cargo.

    I also don't really follow how increased governmental regulation, and agency staffing to implement oversight, is self-evidently pro-business/ capital. It seems business vs business/ capital vs capital if anything, and fortunately pro-consumer considering it's aiming at fighting anti-competitive behavior among an oligopoly that literally ferries every good that crosses an ocean.

    This seems like an untrammeled good reform.

    The smarter people I read have been advocating for this bill to help with some of the supply chain sourced inflation.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Again, this took 5 years to hammer out. Inflation wasn't really a going concern in 2017, aside from how it's always a thing in economic policy. It's certainly good timing to try and cut price gouging, but that's also always true. I'm sure it didn't hurt push things over the finish line. It's the slow boring of dull policies that have broad impacts and are important to do well. It's not like the FMC is all that high profile an agency. I mean, I knew about it but I'm a weirdo, and interned at DOT along with folks at MARAD.

    moniker on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I'm just venting because, yeah, stuff like this gets through and nothing else seems to. :disappointed:

    Commander Zoom on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Does that bill fix that stupid fucking Puerto Rico issue?.


    You’re referring to the Jones Act, I believe, which requires that ships moving goods between US ports be US-built, US-owned, and US-crewed.

    AKA the “ensure we actually have a maritime industry that hasn’t been massively undercut by cheap overseas labor” law?

    I’m not saying it’s a perfect law or that PR isn't outsizedly affected by it, but what you posted is a massive oversimplification.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Does that bill fix that stupid fucking Puerto Rico issue?.


    You’re referring to the Jones Act, I believe, which requires that ships moving goods between US ports be US-built, US-owned, and US-crewed.

    AKA the “ensure we actually have a maritime industry that hasn’t been massively undercut by cheap overseas labor” law?

    I’m not saying it’s a perfect law or that PR isn't outsizedly affected by it, but what you posted is a massive oversimplification.

    I believe it's less the "US port to US port" thing that's the issue, and more the "international shipping can't go direct to PR" thing that's the biggest issue, at least as I remember it.

    So everything must go via the US mainland, which adds multiple steps.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Nah, I think inflation probably played a bit more in this than usual. We're dealing with a GOP that doesn't like to let the democrats accomplish anything. In a world without inflation, I wouldn't be surprised if the dicks dragged this out until after the elections or the next Congress or even further. I'm sure some asshole republican could pull out some nonsense from their ass to hold things up. With inflation such as it is, it probably removed most of any existing appetite to slow roll things until the GOP could easily claim sole credit for it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few other things roll through that could have some impact on inflation or create the appearance of trying to curb it before this congress becomes useless because of midterms. Seems like the GOP has realized they can't really sit back and do fuck all on that issue, while blaming the democrats.

    Like I get that a shit ton of this shit takes time, but some of that excess time is that someone, usually a republican, finds some inane thing to hold up the whole process. So a major issue that voters aren't happy about can cut through some of the hurdles for anything that can be perceived as possible mitigating the issue.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    For an example of something like this that does get caught up in culture wars bullshit, see the TPP

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    Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Reminder: It has been three months since the Senate has passed the Sunshine Protection Act which would make Daylight Savings Time permanent. The House still has not taken any action on it. A piss-easy layup for the Democrats and they still won't take the shot.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Reminder: It has been three months since the Senate has passed the Sunshine Protection Act which would make Daylight Savings Time permanent. The House still has not taken any action on it. A piss-easy layup for the Democrats and they still won't take the shot.

    Not really a layup given that passing it would piss of the half of the country who wants standard time made permanent.

    There's a reason nobody has gotten this taken care of before, and why a lot of the Senate went "Wait, we did WHAT?" after they passed it.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Reminder: It has been three months since the Senate has passed the Sunshine Protection Act which would make Daylight Savings Time permanent. The House still has not taken any action on it. A piss-easy layup for the Democrats and they still won't take the shot.

    Not really a layup given that passing it would piss of the half of the country who wants standard time made permanent.

    There's a reason nobody has gotten this taken care of before, and why a lot of the Senate went "Wait, we did WHAT?" after they passed it.

    Not half, 13%.

    https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_031522/

    on the other hand 33% are also saying "stay as is so not exactly an overwhelming majority for...anything really.

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    Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Reminder: It has been three months since the Senate has passed the Sunshine Protection Act which would make Daylight Savings Time permanent. The House still has not taken any action on it. A piss-easy layup for the Democrats and they still won't take the shot.

    Not really a layup given that passing it would piss of the half of the country who wants standard time made permanent.

    There's a reason nobody has gotten this taken care of before, and why a lot of the Senate went "Wait, we did WHAT?" after they passed it.

    Not half, 13%.

    https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_031522/

    on the other hand 33% are also saying "stay as is so not exactly an overwhelming majority for...anything really.

    That leaves about 44% who want this change, including me.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    The part of me that likes consistency would very very much like it to be standard time, so we don't end up with a permanent one-hour offset from the relatively straightforward count to our east and west. It's like putting the whole country up on a shelf, out of sync with the rest of the world. I would prefer to reduce American exceptionalism, not add another example of it.

    Commander Zoom on
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited June 2022
    One poll asks just before the spring change, a plurality want the spring change permanent.

    A second poll asks just before the fall change, a plurality wants the fall change permanent

    A third poll asked in Feb and a plurality want to keep switching

    There isn't even an easy out here for the politicians. Which poll do you trust?

    Phyphor on
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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    I'm not sure I follow what mass shootings have to do with expanding Federal Oversight and Regulatory Authority over international maritime containerized cargo.

    I also don't really follow how increased governmental regulation, and agency staffing to implement oversight, is self-evidently pro-business/ capital. It seems business vs business/ capital vs capital if anything, and fortunately pro-consumer considering it's aiming at fighting anti-competitive behavior among an oligopoly that literally ferries every good that crosses an ocean.

    This seems like an untrammeled good reform.

    The smarter people I read have been advocating for this bill to help with some of the supply chain sourced inflation.

    Yeah, like, I'm a freight broker - my job is basically "increase inflation!" - and I can tell you straight up that prices for drayage have grown far past anything anyone dreamed of three years ago simply on the threat of demurrage costs. If they're stuck paying $1000 if it doesn't pick up tomorrow I can offer to do the job for $750 and clients will jump at it. We have people in my office (decidedly not me, to be clear) making $30k/month on drayage alone. If the steamship lines get their prices forced down suddenly we're not nearly as attractive at our current rates, and all of that flows downward.

    uH3IcEi.png
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    Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    One poll asks just before the spring change, a plurality want the spring change permanent.

    A second poll asks just before the fall change, a plurality wants the fall change permanent

    A third poll asked in Feb and a plurality want to keep switching

    There isn't even an easy out here for the politicians. Which poll do you trust?

    There is an easy out, but not one politicians are able to perceive. It's tossing the polls over your shoulder and doing it anyway, then standing by what you did. People will come around, especially since they won't have to fall back just before the midterms.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Time switching kills people, so they should just pass something that stops it, I don't care much which way

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    If I was the house, I’d do the vote during lame duck if it wasn’t clear it was popular.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Phyphor wrote: »
    One poll asks just before the spring change, a plurality want the spring change permanent.

    A second poll asks just before the fall change, a plurality wants the fall change permanent

    A third poll asked in Feb and a plurality want to keep switching

    There isn't even an easy out here for the politicians. Which poll do you trust?

    There is an easy out, but not one politicians are able to perceive. It's tossing the polls over your shoulder and doing it anyway, then standing by what you did. People will come around, especially since they won't have to fall back just before the midterms.

    Nah, falling back is the good one. Everyone loves the extra hour of sleeping in

    The correct answer is being brave and making standard time universal
    kime wrote: »
    Time switching kills people, so they should just pass something that stops it, I don't care much which way

    The fall change has a reduction in heart attack visits approximately equal to the increase from the spring change. DST switching gives those people an extra ~4 months!

    Phyphor on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    One poll asks just before the spring change, a plurality want the spring change permanent.

    A second poll asks just before the fall change, a plurality wants the fall change permanent

    A third poll asked in Feb and a plurality want to keep switching

    There isn't even an easy out here for the politicians. Which poll do you trust?

    Sure there is. Make DST permanent and ignore the people who are wrong.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    .

    Commander Zoom on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2022
    If there's any partisan lean on the preference at all, make whatever the dems prefer permanent. Republicans will decide they hate it no matter what you do, and a bunch of the Dems opposed to it will decide they like it after you do it, for similarly partisan reasons.

    Just make something permanent, practically it doesn't much matter which option.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Well if my mom that has been poisoned by Fox News is anything to go by, it seems that shitty network has been drumming up that we should go with "standard" time because they keep finding experts saying that permanent DLS is worse.

    My bet is if that is what's going on, the goal isn't to stop the switches. It's to keep anything from being done because the whole shit show is a great distraction from getting anything done. The house should just pass it before this Congress ends. If they lose their majority in one or both chambers, this will be very far from being the straw that broke the camels back. What's going to cause that is the GOP once again not be held accountable for their actions, namely that they've allow businesses to not be properly regulated and this h as resulted in consumers getting fucked over even more during a rise of inflation. One such reg would have been some serious trust busting, so that we'd have more competition, that would have led to some under cutting when assholes tried to commit gouging consumers.

    So they might as well do something good. I mean, we'd get at least two years before the GOP even has a shot at changing it back. I'm sure they'll try out of pure spite, but maybe such a future attempt will blow up in their faces because I'm pretty sure most really hate the time changes and if they go two years without them, they might not be keen on that shit being brought back.

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    AlexandierAlexandier Registered User regular
    JUST. PICK. ONE.

    I don't care let the MAGA chuds crow its a victory to have standard as the One True Time to bring us all and in the darkness(of the winder solstice) bind us.

    Please stop the clock changing, my poor heart...

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Also, switch all government form date formats to Big Endian.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    "Computer, erase that entire personal log."

    (fcking coward)

    Commander Zoom on
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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Fox's scientists aren't wrong. Standard time is better for most people.

    The real problem is that we work too damn many hours, and fucking with the clock won't change that.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    If other legislation is any indicator, we won't see anything happen until polling heavily sways in one direction or the other.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening? Given the unrivaled power of the US military, the only way I can conceive of such a thing happening is if the military itself were to split. Which doesn’t seem terribly likely? I think? Otherwise, any attempt at civil war will be put down rapidly and brutally.

    I could see an increase in decentralized violence, like terrorist attacks and such. I could see fascist/right-wing authoritarian rule. Or even direct military rule, maybe. A real civil war seems less likely than any of the above. I just don't see what path gets us there.

    Kaputa on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening? Given the unrivaled power of the US military, the only way I can conceive of such a thing happening is if the military itself were to split. Which doesn’t seem terribly likely? I think? Otherwise, any attempt at civil war will be put down rapidly and brutally.

    I could see an increase in decentralized violence, like terrorist attacks and such. I could see fascist/right-wing authoritarian rule. Or even direct military rule, maybe. A real civil war seems less likely than any of the above. I just don't see what path gets us there.

    I think this could be an entire thread and probably not for a thread focused on legislation.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998
    That sounds somewhat realistic, although even then I think geographical divisions and history of the Ireland-England conflict doesn't apply super well to our own situation. But I get your point. The Years of Lead in Italy is the example I've been imagining for comparison.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    moniker wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998

    10x as many people die in the US via gun violence every year than the entire combined casualties of the Troubles.

    Our political mass shootings already eclipse that, because nearly all of them are politically motivated.

    We're already there.

    jungleroomx on
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998

    10x as many people die in the US via gun violence every year than the entire combined casualties of the Troubles.

    Our political mass shootings already eclipse that, because nearly all of them are politically motivated.

    We're already there.

    I dont think the point is to compare numbers, its pointing to the factionalism and stochastic violence without things so clear as uniforms and state borders.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    moniker wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998

    10x as many people die in the US via gun violence every year than the entire combined casualties of the Troubles.

    Our political mass shootings already eclipse that, because nearly all of them are politically motivated.

    We're already there.

    I dont think the point is to compare numbers, its pointing to the factionalism and stochastic violence without things so clear as uniforms and state borders.

    We're already there. You can pick a Proud Boy out of a crowd pretty easily, can't you? See someone in khakis, red hat, and white shirt, what's the first thing you think of? And finally, the clearest uniform of them all: The blue one American police wear.

    And we've got pretty clear borders, or as we call them "red" and "blue" states.

    We've got nasty sectarian and political violence right now. We've got GOP legislators calling for murder right now, and have been for over a decade since Palin's target ad.

    The idea the right isn't already engaging in this kind of shit is mindblowing.

    jungleroomx on
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    Oh, looks like conservatives are now openly calling for the murder of LGBT folks.

    At what point do we actually recognize what they're doing and act appropriately in response?

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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    I've seen people mention fear of civil war - recently in this thread, as a hypothetical outcome of a SCOTUS justice assassination, and less recently in others, and also on liberal twitter and tictoc and stuff. I don't really get it. What sort of civil war do people envision happening?

    Northern Ireland circa 1968-1998

    10x as many people die in the US via gun violence every year than the entire combined casualties of the Troubles.

    Our political mass shootings already eclipse that, because nearly all of them are politically motivated.

    We're already there.

    I dont think the point is to compare numbers, its pointing to the factionalism and stochastic violence without things so clear as uniforms and state borders.

    We're already there. You can pick a Proud Boy out of a crowd pretty easily, can't you? See someone in khakis, red hat, and white shirt, what's the first thing you think of? And finally, the clearest uniform of them all: The blue one American police wear.

    And we've got pretty clear borders, or as we call them "red" and "blue" states.

    We've got nasty sectarian and political violence right now. We've got GOP legislators calling for murder right now, and have been for over a decade since Palin's target ad.

    The idea the right isn't already engaging in this kind of shit is mindblowing.

    The random nature of it makes it hard to predict or mitigate, though. We know what kind of person is likely to commit a mass shooting, but most of those people won't. So at best a Proud Boy "uniform" is advertising that they're an asshole and probably a deeply unpleasant person, but not necessarily that they're a latent terrorist.

This discussion has been closed.