Sinema potentially working with Republicans to torpedo the entire deal by amending it to change the tax on rich people to a tax on poor people.
Fun.
But remember, dems get to nominate some judges!
And reduce carbon dioxide emissions ~40% from 2005 levels.
*edit*
Also, Medicare negotiating prescription drug prices and automatic IRS tax filing for the vast majority of filers is... huge. Like, on their own both of those are impressive achievements against lobbyists
Did that gay marriage bill ever get scheduled for a Senate vote?
Last news I saw was from a few days ago and it was about Democrats working behind the scenes to try and cajole some Republicans into voting for it. Haven't heard about it coming up for a vote yet or being scheduled for that.
Did that gay marriage bill ever get scheduled for a Senate vote?
Last news I saw was from a few days ago and it was about Democrats working behind the scenes to try and cajole some Republicans into voting for it. Haven't heard about it coming up for a vote yet or being scheduled for that.
They really should have struck while the iron was hot
Did that gay marriage bill ever get scheduled for a Senate vote?
Last news I saw was from a few days ago and it was about Democrats working behind the scenes to try and cajole some Republicans into voting for it. Haven't heard about it coming up for a vote yet or being scheduled for that.
They really should have struck while the iron was hot
It would have failed. Which is great for political ads, but not for actually protecting LGBTQIA marriages.
Did that gay marriage bill ever get scheduled for a Senate vote?
Last news I saw was from a few days ago and it was about Democrats working behind the scenes to try and cajole some Republicans into voting for it. Haven't heard about it coming up for a vote yet or being scheduled for that.
They really should have struck while the iron was hot
It would have failed. Which is great for political ads, but not for actually protecting LGBTQIA marriages.
I think it had a better chance of passing when Republicans were in disarray and on the heels of Dobbs than after several weeks/months of quiet negotiation giving GOP leadership time to get their ducks in a row.
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
12% of what? I mean compared to what it was before the vote-a-rama. Did any changes actually come out of that or did Schumer just amend it back to what it started as?
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
12% of what? I mean compared to what it was before the vote-a-rama. Did any changes actually come out of that or did Schumer just amend it back to what it started as?
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
Then they're just pretending the Infrastructure Bill doesn't exist for some reason.
My interpretation of that question was "how much did the Vote-a-Rama change things," and that could just be because I'm on vacation so not as tuned in and the answer should otherwise be obvious. But if anyone wants to answer my question here, I'd appreciate it then, because I don't think "12%" is accurate and I don't think the Infrastructure Bill should be related at all
Did that gay marriage bill ever get scheduled for a Senate vote?
At least as of a few days ago the Republican position was "nah, we don't need to talk about this."
Couple Republicans in support, a couple more doing the "I might vote for it if you limit it enough," and the rest are all hard nos. It's probably not coming up for a vote this year.
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
12% of what? I mean compared to what it was before the vote-a-rama. Did any changes actually come out of that or did Schumer just amend it back to what it started as?
Of what BBB started out as.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything that's been going on.
Did Sinema get that stupid carveout she wanted? Was another compromise reached or did it just revert back to the original bill? There was a whole kerfuffle less then an hour ago over this.
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
Then they're just pretending the Infrastructure Bill doesn't exist for some reason.
My interpretation of that question was "how much did the Vote-a-Rama change things," and that could just be because I'm on vacation so not as tuned in and the answer should otherwise be obvious. But if anyone wants to answer my question here, I'd appreciate it then, because I don't think "12%" is accurate and I don't think the Infrastructure Bill should be related at all
Final language won't be in the Congressional Record until tomorrow or Tuesday most likely in order to fully compare. I'm sure some reporting will break it down among folks watching everything, but it only just passed within the hour.
Any word on what the final language of the bill looks like compared to what they started with?
Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
Then they're just pretending the Infrastructure Bill doesn't exist for some reason.
My interpretation of that question was "how much did the Vote-a-Rama change things," and that could just be because I'm on vacation so not as tuned in and the answer should otherwise be obvious. But if anyone wants to answer my question here, I'd appreciate it then, because I don't think "12%" is accurate and I don't think the Infrastructure Bill should be related at all
Final language won't be in the Congressional Record until tomorrow or Tuesday most likely in order to fully compare. I'm sure some reporting will break it down among folks watching everything, but it only just passed within the hour.
Yeah, I was wondering if anyone was following the last minute stuff to see what happened so we didn't have to wait till tomorrow or later tonight.
Did Sinema get that stupid carveout she wanted? Was another compromise reached or did it just revert back to the original bill? There was a whole kerfuffle less then an hour ago over this.
She got her carveout, yeah.
(And the other one she demanded last week as a condition of support; this afternoon was her moving the goalposts at the last minute.)
In-Party negotiation tactics from the last ~1.5 years will need to be reevaluated now that it turns out Manchin was gettable.
They’re going to call this the Manchin Climate Bill
IRA/Inflation Reduction Act is too cute and ephemeral- the climate stuff is what will endure and it’s too funny to not attach the Gob Coal Baron’s name to it
Schumer's honestly had a very good session, especially given the majority he has rests on a guy from a state Trump won by what, 40? And a not very bright person who is just there to represent private equity and troll for content.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Schumer's honestly had a very good session, especially given the majority he has rests on a guy from a state Trump won by what, 40? And a not very bright person who is just there to represent private equity and troll for content.
Yeah, Schumer overall seems to have played his hand pretty well. From what we've seen today maybe even better then expected. In the end he got a bunch of stuff through. And maybe even more to come.
This is also exactly the reason you keep people like Manchin and Sinema in the caucus, no matter how stupid and irritating they are.
So sounds like the plan is to have the house vote on what the Senate passed today, given that preempts an issue where someone adds something that blows the whole deal up.
I would have liked better but the democrats only have a majority because of the VP. This makes fuckers like Manchin and Sinema really fucking obnoxious; especially, Sinema. With luck the democratic party will endorse her primary challenger or not give Sinema any help at all in 2024. Like Manchin is awful, but he is at least consistent that you can work with him and I dare say not nearly as corrupt as Sinema. Plus, likely might not have a viable option to replace him with that can win in WV, but will see how things go post Dobbs. Sinema just needs to fucking go because she is the shitty politician that everyone makes all politicians out to be, the asshole that seems to hold no positions other than what gets them a big pay day.
Anyways, the climate stuff will help. I also see some reverberations now that the government gets to negotiate drug prices for Medicare. I see any state Medicaid agency that gives a damn about the people they serve immediately using that to get prescriptions to reason prices for people on that program, rather than often finding a way to not cover it (maybe they'll also start getting proper pain killers covered, so that the ERs aren't just handing out opiates to everyone that needs a painkiller for a medical issue. Like had a huge kidney stone and Virginia Medicaid was willing to cover Percocet, which costs more, but not cover generic Toradol). I also see private insurers pulling up the prices Medicare gets to beat pharma companies into submission. Also I hope the moment that pharma complains that it's costing them money, that everyone points out how quickly pharma found plenty of money to instantly run ads against this bill and pretty often on TV (aka the bastards aren't hurting for money at all).
The IRS stuff should be interesting. Not sure how much temp stuff tax prep companies will cut down on next year. IIRC a shit ton of stuff is done with online apps for the people this would help. So I kind of leaning towards none, since the programs they tax prep companies run are usually setup to be used for anyone doing taxes. I'd need to see how this impacts state level stuff because we probably will need states to get their tax agencies to do what the IRS is doing now, but maybe the IRS can have their thing do state taxes as well. Once you get auto stuff in, that might help a ton of low information people out because you really have to look for that state level stuff being done for free because all the tax prep companies try to stir you towards their online portal that grabs a chunk of your state returns. Hell, maybe people see a few extra bucks back from the state, depending on how sleazy and or lazy the tax prep companies were being about things. Sure there are probably some people impacted by this that were either paying less because they had improperly filed things and didn't get noticed. I'll feel somewhat bad for the ones where it was an honest mistake, but fuck the ones that were cheating on their taxes. Maybe that will make them more keen on making sure the IRS also forces the wealthy to pay their fair share as well, if they can no longer cheat on their taxes as a non-wealthy person.
As for the insulin cap. They should craft that into a bill and bring in up for a vote in September. If it doesn't pass, let it be on the GOP for not supporting it. Same deal for the marriage bill, put up for a vote and let the GOP deal with it. There is nothing stopping them from resubmitting this stuff next year because if they can't pass it now, they probably are unlikely to pass it this year.
Schumer's honestly had a very good session, especially given the majority he has rests on a guy from a state Trump won by what, 40? And a not very bright person who is just there to represent private equity and troll for content.
Yeah, Schumer overall seems to have played his hand pretty well. From what we've seen today maybe even better then expected. In the end he got a bunch of stuff through. And maybe even more to come.
This is also exactly the reason you keep people like Manchin and Sinema in the caucus, no matter how stupid and irritating they are.
Yeah, if we'd gone with "fuck Manchin, run him out of the party, who even cares anymore" none of this would've happened. It's a modest win, but in context it's not nothing. And between these last minute wins and the Dobbs stuff, it may even help us keep the Senate.
I am slightly less despondent than I was previously about the midterms!
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Schumer's honestly had a very good session, especially given the majority he has rests on a guy from a state Trump won by what, 40? And a not very bright person who is just there to represent private equity and troll for content.
Yeah, Schumer overall seems to have played his hand pretty well. From what we've seen today maybe even better then expected. In the end he got a bunch of stuff through. And maybe even more to come.
This is also exactly the reason you keep people like Manchin and Sinema in the caucus, no matter how stupid and irritating they are.
Manchin MAYBE. Sinema, no, fuck that noise. Primary her ass, we can do better.
In-Party negotiation tactics from the last ~1.5 years will need to be reevaluated now that it turns out Manchin was gettable.
They’re going to call this the Manchin Climate Bill
It seems like a corner was turned once negotiations were being led by Schumer instead of the WH.
Chuck Schumer has always been the better negotiator
That’s really, really sad.
Why?
I'm not sure what we are basing the idea that Schumer is a bad negotiator on here. It's not clear imo that there was a better deal to get.
I guess I’m just used to the Democrats, especially in the Senate, starting negotiations by giving away everything and then compromising even further when that doesn’t work, and then giving up. Pelosi at least always fought for things and did some performative bullshit like when all the Dems present on the GOP budget.
It’s like, Biden’s team are worse negotiators than the Senate Dems? Jesus, that’s dire.
Schumer's honestly had a very good session, especially given the majority he has rests on a guy from a state Trump won by what, 40? And a not very bright person who is just there to represent private equity and troll for content.
Yeah, Schumer overall seems to have played his hand pretty well. From what we've seen today maybe even better then expected. In the end he got a bunch of stuff through. And maybe even more to come.
This is also exactly the reason you keep people like Manchin and Sinema in the caucus, no matter how stupid and irritating they are.
Manchin MAYBE. Sinema, no, fuck that noise. Primary her ass, we can do better.
Who's talking about after the election or 2-4 years from now? I'm talking about right now in this Congress.
With any luck they can be neutered come January by increasing the D margin in the Senate.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
In-Party negotiation tactics from the last ~1.5 years will need to be reevaluated now that it turns out Manchin was gettable.
They’re going to call this the Manchin Climate Bill
It seems like a corner was turned once negotiations were being led by Schumer instead of the WH.
Chuck Schumer has always been the better negotiator
That’s really, really sad.
Why?
I'm not sure what we are basing the idea that Schumer is a bad negotiator on here. It's not clear imo that there was a better deal to get.
I guess I’m just used to the Democrats, especially in the Senate, starting negotiations by giving away everything and then compromising even further when that doesn’t work, and then giving up. Pelosi at least always fought for things and did some performative bullshit like when all the Dems present on the GOP budget.
It’s like, Biden’s team are worse negotiators than the Senate Dems? Jesus, that’s dire.
I mean, it may be as petty as negotiations coming from a colleague in the Senate, rather than the President.
It doesn't mean he's a worse negotiatior, per se, it just means personal relationships matter more than they should
I guess I can be blamed for 2024 senate stuff. Really my point had been, that we're stuck with both those assholes and Sinema has probably been the worst of the two, as evidenced by the last minute shit she pulled. Manchin is fucking awful, but you at leas know he is going to be consistent and when you have him on board he won't fuck it up last minute during the vote.
Ideally, we get enough democrats in the Senate this fall, while keeping the house, that neither one of those jackasses matters. Barring that, just one more democratic senator probably makes shit less fucked up because you can cut out Sinema, who we can realistically replace in 2024 as of right now. She's the one that likes to pull last minute crazy bullshit for the fucking oligarchs when everyone thought she was committed. Manchin at least will stick to the agreement once he agrees to go in for a vote.
Anyways, I really hope Schumer queues up all the good shit that the GOP has been blocking for years, but not voting on because they know the optics look bad. Figure if you aren't getting much done in the Senate, you can start giving people actually voting records to work with. Maybe the shithead republicans back down and you get some solid stuff through, if not you get to campaign on them being awful in an easy to prove way. Mitch's strategy when he was majority leader, was also to make sure the GOP got their awful policy shit, but in a way where they didn't have to defend voting for it.
I guess I can be blamed for 2024 senate stuff. Really my point had been, that we're stuck with both those assholes and Sinema has probably been the worst of the two, as evidenced by the last minute shit she pulled. Manchin is fucking awful, but you at leas know he is going to be consistent and when you have him on board he won't fuck it up last minute during the vote.
Ideally, we get enough democrats in the Senate this fall, while keeping the house, that neither one of those jackasses matters. Barring that, just one more democratic senator probably makes shit less fucked up because you can cut out Sinema, who we can realistically replace in 2024 as of right now. She's the one that likes to pull last minute crazy bullshit for the fucking oligarchs when everyone thought she was committed. Manchin at least will stick to the agreement once he agrees to go in for a vote.
Anyways, I really hope Schumer queues up all the good shit that the GOP has been blocking for years, but not voting on because they know the optics look bad. Figure if you aren't getting much done in the Senate, you can start giving people actually voting records to work with. Maybe the shithead republicans back down and you get some solid stuff through, if not you get to campaign on them being awful in an easy to prove way. Mitch's strategy when he was majority leader, was also to make sure the GOP got their awful policy shit, but in a way where they didn't have to defend voting for it.
I still want to know why he apparently abandoned that whole "We get multiple reconciliations" thing from when this term just started.
Okay, cool, we got this stuff. Now let's do a super mini-reconciliation for the insulin stuff only. Make Lindsay Graham really pissy about not getting to be on vacation. I do know we're butting up against campaigning time, but that still hits Republicans more than Dems.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I guess I can be blamed for 2024 senate stuff. Really my point had been, that we're stuck with both those assholes and Sinema has probably been the worst of the two, as evidenced by the last minute shit she pulled. Manchin is fucking awful, but you at leas know he is going to be consistent and when you have him on board he won't fuck it up last minute during the vote.
Ideally, we get enough democrats in the Senate this fall, while keeping the house, that neither one of those jackasses matters. Barring that, just one more democratic senator probably makes shit less fucked up because you can cut out Sinema, who we can realistically replace in 2024 as of right now. She's the one that likes to pull last minute crazy bullshit for the fucking oligarchs when everyone thought she was committed. Manchin at least will stick to the agreement once he agrees to go in for a vote.
Anyways, I really hope Schumer queues up all the good shit that the GOP has been blocking for years, but not voting on because they know the optics look bad. Figure if you aren't getting much done in the Senate, you can start giving people actually voting records to work with. Maybe the shithead republicans back down and you get some solid stuff through, if not you get to campaign on them being awful in an easy to prove way. Mitch's strategy when he was majority leader, was also to make sure the GOP got their awful policy shit, but in a way where they didn't have to defend voting for it.
I still want to know why he apparently abandoned that whole "We get multiple reconciliations" thing from when this term just started.
Okay, cool, we got this stuff. Now let's do a super mini-reconciliation for the insulin stuff only. Make Lindsay Graham really pissy about not getting to be on vacation. I do know we're butting up against campaigning time, but that still hits Republicans more than Dems.
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And reduce carbon dioxide emissions ~40% from 2005 levels.
*edit*
Also, Medicare negotiating prescription drug prices and automatic IRS tax filing for the vast majority of filers is... huge. Like, on their own both of those are impressive achievements against lobbyists
Yes but also, like...
*looking around at the US and how much judges are able to just wreck people's lives and Democracy at all levels*
maybe we shouldn't discount appointing judges?
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Some reporters I dont see any reason to doubt put it at around 12% of the size.
They're still trying to claw the whip count up to 60
Last news I saw was from a few days ago and it was about Democrats working behind the scenes to try and cajole some Republicans into voting for it. Haven't heard about it coming up for a vote yet or being scheduled for that.
They really should have struck while the iron was hot
It would have failed. Which is great for political ads, but not for actually protecting LGBTQIA marriages.
Then they're just pretending the Infrastructure Bill doesn't exist for some reason.
I think it had a better chance of passing when Republicans were in disarray and on the heels of Dobbs than after several weeks/months of quiet negotiation giving GOP leadership time to get their ducks in a row.
12% of what? I mean compared to what it was before the vote-a-rama. Did any changes actually come out of that or did Schumer just amend it back to what it started as?
Of what BBB started out as.
My interpretation of that question was "how much did the Vote-a-Rama change things," and that could just be because I'm on vacation so not as tuned in and the answer should otherwise be obvious. But if anyone wants to answer my question here, I'd appreciate it then, because I don't think "12%" is accurate and I don't think the Infrastructure Bill should be related at all
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At least as of a few days ago the Republican position was "nah, we don't need to talk about this."
Couple Republicans in support, a couple more doing the "I might vote for it if you limit it enough," and the rest are all hard nos. It's probably not coming up for a vote this year.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything that's been going on.
Did Sinema get that stupid carveout she wanted? Was another compromise reached or did it just revert back to the original bill? There was a whole kerfuffle less then an hour ago over this.
Final language won't be in the Congressional Record until tomorrow or Tuesday most likely in order to fully compare. I'm sure some reporting will break it down among folks watching everything, but it only just passed within the hour.
Yeah, I was wondering if anyone was following the last minute stuff to see what happened so we didn't have to wait till tomorrow or later tonight.
She got her carveout, yeah.
(And the other one she demanded last week as a condition of support; this afternoon was her moving the goalposts at the last minute.)
They’re going to call this the Manchin Climate Bill
IRA/Inflation Reduction Act is too cute and ephemeral- the climate stuff is what will endure and it’s too funny to not attach the Gob Coal Baron’s name to it
It seems like a corner was turned once negotiations were being led by Schumer instead of the WH.
That’s really, really sad.
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Yeah, Schumer overall seems to have played his hand pretty well. From what we've seen today maybe even better then expected. In the end he got a bunch of stuff through. And maybe even more to come.
This is also exactly the reason you keep people like Manchin and Sinema in the caucus, no matter how stupid and irritating they are.
Why?
I'm not sure what we are basing the idea that Schumer is a bad negotiator on here. It's not clear imo that there was a better deal to get.
I would have liked better but the democrats only have a majority because of the VP. This makes fuckers like Manchin and Sinema really fucking obnoxious; especially, Sinema. With luck the democratic party will endorse her primary challenger or not give Sinema any help at all in 2024. Like Manchin is awful, but he is at least consistent that you can work with him and I dare say not nearly as corrupt as Sinema. Plus, likely might not have a viable option to replace him with that can win in WV, but will see how things go post Dobbs. Sinema just needs to fucking go because she is the shitty politician that everyone makes all politicians out to be, the asshole that seems to hold no positions other than what gets them a big pay day.
Anyways, the climate stuff will help. I also see some reverberations now that the government gets to negotiate drug prices for Medicare. I see any state Medicaid agency that gives a damn about the people they serve immediately using that to get prescriptions to reason prices for people on that program, rather than often finding a way to not cover it (maybe they'll also start getting proper pain killers covered, so that the ERs aren't just handing out opiates to everyone that needs a painkiller for a medical issue. Like had a huge kidney stone and Virginia Medicaid was willing to cover Percocet, which costs more, but not cover generic Toradol). I also see private insurers pulling up the prices Medicare gets to beat pharma companies into submission. Also I hope the moment that pharma complains that it's costing them money, that everyone points out how quickly pharma found plenty of money to instantly run ads against this bill and pretty often on TV (aka the bastards aren't hurting for money at all).
The IRS stuff should be interesting. Not sure how much temp stuff tax prep companies will cut down on next year. IIRC a shit ton of stuff is done with online apps for the people this would help. So I kind of leaning towards none, since the programs they tax prep companies run are usually setup to be used for anyone doing taxes. I'd need to see how this impacts state level stuff because we probably will need states to get their tax agencies to do what the IRS is doing now, but maybe the IRS can have their thing do state taxes as well. Once you get auto stuff in, that might help a ton of low information people out because you really have to look for that state level stuff being done for free because all the tax prep companies try to stir you towards their online portal that grabs a chunk of your state returns. Hell, maybe people see a few extra bucks back from the state, depending on how sleazy and or lazy the tax prep companies were being about things. Sure there are probably some people impacted by this that were either paying less because they had improperly filed things and didn't get noticed. I'll feel somewhat bad for the ones where it was an honest mistake, but fuck the ones that were cheating on their taxes. Maybe that will make them more keen on making sure the IRS also forces the wealthy to pay their fair share as well, if they can no longer cheat on their taxes as a non-wealthy person.
As for the insulin cap. They should craft that into a bill and bring in up for a vote in September. If it doesn't pass, let it be on the GOP for not supporting it. Same deal for the marriage bill, put up for a vote and let the GOP deal with it. There is nothing stopping them from resubmitting this stuff next year because if they can't pass it now, they probably are unlikely to pass it this year.
Yeah, if we'd gone with "fuck Manchin, run him out of the party, who even cares anymore" none of this would've happened. It's a modest win, but in context it's not nothing. And between these last minute wins and the Dobbs stuff, it may even help us keep the Senate.
I am slightly less despondent than I was previously about the midterms!
Manchin MAYBE. Sinema, no, fuck that noise. Primary her ass, we can do better.
I guess I’m just used to the Democrats, especially in the Senate, starting negotiations by giving away everything and then compromising even further when that doesn’t work, and then giving up. Pelosi at least always fought for things and did some performative bullshit like when all the Dems present on the GOP budget.
It’s like, Biden’s team are worse negotiators than the Senate Dems? Jesus, that’s dire.
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Who's talking about after the election or 2-4 years from now? I'm talking about right now in this Congress.
With any luck they can be neutered come January by increasing the D margin in the Senate.
I mean, it may be as petty as negotiations coming from a colleague in the Senate, rather than the President.
It doesn't mean he's a worse negotiatior, per se, it just means personal relationships matter more than they should
Ideally, we get enough democrats in the Senate this fall, while keeping the house, that neither one of those jackasses matters. Barring that, just one more democratic senator probably makes shit less fucked up because you can cut out Sinema, who we can realistically replace in 2024 as of right now. She's the one that likes to pull last minute crazy bullshit for the fucking oligarchs when everyone thought she was committed. Manchin at least will stick to the agreement once he agrees to go in for a vote.
Anyways, I really hope Schumer queues up all the good shit that the GOP has been blocking for years, but not voting on because they know the optics look bad. Figure if you aren't getting much done in the Senate, you can start giving people actually voting records to work with. Maybe the shithead republicans back down and you get some solid stuff through, if not you get to campaign on them being awful in an easy to prove way. Mitch's strategy when he was majority leader, was also to make sure the GOP got their awful policy shit, but in a way where they didn't have to defend voting for it.
I still want to know why he apparently abandoned that whole "We get multiple reconciliations" thing from when this term just started.
Okay, cool, we got this stuff. Now let's do a super mini-reconciliation for the insulin stuff only. Make Lindsay Graham really pissy about not getting to be on vacation. I do know we're butting up against campaigning time, but that still hits Republicans more than Dems.
My guess is that Manchin said "no we don't"