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Penny Arcade - Comic - Fractal Parody

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited January 21 in The Penny Arcade Hub
imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Fractal Parody

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

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Posts

  • islingtonislington Registered User regular
    So 20 years later we discover that asshole at fox who got firefly cancelled may actually have been the good guy...

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  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    No, he’s still bad

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  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    Mike really killed it on this one. Those first two strips could have been the standard talking heads, but he managed a unique Watterson-esque background activity.

    And he really went to town on that demon. Can't say I've ever seen a warthog demon with nipple rings.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    dennis wrote: »
    Mike really killed it on this one. Those first two strips could have been the standard talking heads, but he managed a unique Watterson-esque background activity.

    And he really went to town on that demon. Can't say I've ever seen a warthog demon with nipple rings.

    The strips where they talk about random mundane stuff while crazy stuff goes on unremarked in the background (and sometimes foreground) are among my favorite.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Mike really killed it on this one. Those first two strips could have been the standard talking heads, but he managed a unique Watterson-esque background activity.

    And he really went to town on that demon. Can't say I've ever seen a warthog demon with nipple rings.
    Pumbaa got freaky after the events of "The Lion King". Hakuna Matata indeed.

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  • v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    I remember reading this interview and wondering who he thought it would garner sympathy from. And seriously, 5 years later he is still throwing shade on Gal Gadot. She must have been the first woman he worked with that declined his invitation to the casting couch or something.

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  • Radiated RoninRadiated Ronin Registered User regular
    I have often wondered if moves like this are intentional. Maybe Joss is simply tired of being rich and famous, and wants to go live a quiet life in obscurity, raising silkworms on the island he now owns. The best way to make people leave you alone is to come off like a terrible, bigoted, racist, disgusting human being. It seemed to work for Notch...

  • AsheramAsheram Registered User regular
    Remember "No True Scotsman."

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    v2micca wrote: »
    I remember reading this interview and wondering who he thought it would garner sympathy from. And seriously, 5 years later he is still throwing shade on Gal Gadot. She must have been the first woman he worked with that declined his invitation to the casting couch or something.

    People like this are convinced if they just tell you their side you'll understand without realizing their side is fucking awful.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • BropocalypseBropocalypse Registered User regular
    I have often wondered if moves like this are intentional. Maybe Joss is simply tired of being rich and famous, and wants to go live a quiet life in obscurity, raising silkworms on the island he now owns. The best way to make people leave you alone is to come off like a terrible, bigoted, racist, disgusting human being. It seemed to work for Notch...

    Probably better to change your name and retain some dignity, tbh

    PreacherMan in the MistsH3Knuckles
  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    v2micca wrote: »
    I remember reading this interview and wondering who he thought it would garner sympathy from. And seriously, 5 years later he is still throwing shade on Gal Gadot. She must have been the first woman he worked with that declined his invitation to the casting couch or something.

    People like this are convinced if they just tell you their side you'll understand without realizing their side is fucking awful.

    Yes, this. That closing line where he's saying he thinks he's the nicest showrunner etc, proves he's learned fucking nothing from any of it. He knows a couple correct soundbites to say but can't help himself from letting his true bullshit seep through.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    v2micca wrote: »
    I remember reading this interview and wondering who he thought it would garner sympathy from. And seriously, 5 years later he is still throwing shade on Gal Gadot. She must have been the first woman he worked with that declined his invitation to the casting couch or something.

    People like this are convinced if they just tell you their side you'll understand without realizing their side is fucking awful.

    Yes, this. That closing line where he's saying he thinks he's the nicest showrunner etc, proves he's learned fucking nothing from any of it. He knows a couple correct soundbites to say but can't help himself from letting his true bullshit seep through.

    In a way its reassuring that shitty people like people who are into cypto or cross fit have to blurt it out at every opportunity

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    dennisZilla360Man in the MistsH3Knuckles
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    Mike really killed it on this one. Those first two strips could have been the standard talking heads, but he managed a unique Watterson-esque background activity.

    And he really went to town on that demon. Can't say I've ever seen a warthog demon with nipple rings.

    Yes, stick to the story

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  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    That's just a basic type IV demon, a.k.a. nalfeshnee.

    The boar with the niprings is pretty wild tho heyooooooo!

  • E.CoyoteE.Coyote Registered User regular
    Huh, the demon haunting Joss Wheedon was Alf. Learn something new every day.

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    v2micca wrote: »
    I remember reading this interview and wondering who he thought it would garner sympathy from. And seriously, 5 years later he is still throwing shade on Gal Gadot. She must have been the first woman he worked with that declined his invitation to the casting couch or something.

    People like this are convinced if they just tell you their side you'll understand without realizing their side is fucking awful.

    Yes, this. That closing line where he's saying he thinks he's the nicest showrunner etc, proves he's learned fucking nothing from any of it. He knows a couple correct soundbites to say but can't help himself from letting his true bullshit seep through.

    In a way its reassuring that shitty people like people who are into cypto or cross fit have to blurt it out at every opportunity

    It's sort of the human variation on the brightly colored skin of the poison arrow frog.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I've been trying to articulate my position on Whedon's career, and I actually deleted two drafts and gave up, but Tycho hit the bullseye on what I was thinking:
    This is a legitimately revolting person who fashioned a malevolent lure out of a studied, systematic feminist performance - one that protected him from criticism like a magical ward for years.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    islington wrote: »
    So 20 years later we discover that asshole at fox who got firefly cancelled may actually have been the good guy...

    For all its popularity, Firefly is pretty horribly flawed. Sex workers have leveled a number of criticisms of how Inara was depicted, and then there's the Lost Cause undercurrent in the show. It's going to be interesting to see how the proposed reboot tries to handle things.

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  • el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I've been trying to articulate my position on Whedon's career, and I actually deleted two drafts and gave up, but Tycho hit the bullseye on what I was thinking:
    This is a legitimately revolting person who fashioned a malevolent lure out of a studied, systematic feminist performance - one that protected him from criticism like a magical ward for years.

    Yeah, Jerry's post is ace

    ouxsemmi8rm9.png

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  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    That would sound weird if talking about some other profession. Mechanics criticize depiction of kaylee, mercenaries criticize depiction of jayne?

  • AidanKuma120AidanKuma120 Registered User new member
    I'm reminded of Peter Sellers. Maybe it's an unpopular opinion these days or maybe my point of view is immature...but just because Sellers was a real S.O.B. doesn't stop me from loving Clouseau. I can't argue that Rowling isn't a terrible person...but there are at least three different versions of the complete Potter series in my home. Maybe Whedon was a prick at times and some of the things he did are inexcusable...but I'm not ready to condemn his art because of it. That article was a snapshot of a human being. The bad was terrible...the good was great. In all...I'm thankful for it and I think it's worth honoring the blood, sweat, and tears that went into the art. The people who were hurt an the people who did the hurting...those sacrifices are the price. I think I'll choose to honor them all, rather than condemn one or pity many.

  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    When did we start using “terrible person” to mean “someone I disagree with”?

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I've been trying to articulate my position on Whedon's career, and I actually deleted two drafts and gave up, but Tycho hit the bullseye on what I was thinking:
    This is a legitimately revolting person who fashioned a malevolent lure out of a studied, systematic feminist performance - one that protected him from criticism like a magical ward for years.

    I liked Firefly, even if Whedon always put out "skeevy" vibes to me... but with no real proof back then, just seemed like a dickish thing to say. But I guess now I feel somewhat justified in feeling that.

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    When did we start using “terrible person” to mean “someone I disagree with”?

    @Lttlefoot Whedon isn't being called terrible for expressing an unpopular political view, he's been accused of being an abusive employer and a sex pest. Like, one actress (Michelle Trachtenberg) was a minor, and there was apparently a rule on the set (of Buffy) to never leave her alone in a room with him.

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  • Johnny17Johnny17 Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Sometimes I think the choice in movie business when it comes to a director is always between a primadonna or Ghostbusters 2016.

    Johnny17 on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    When did we start using “terrible person” to mean “someone I disagree with”?

    One, that's not what's happening here - Whedon's record of abuse has been well documented.

    Two, the "difference of opinion" fallacy needs to go die in a fire. It turns out that many people "disagree" with things like misogyny because they are reprehensible positions to hold, and distilling that opposition to "disagreement" is arguing in bad faith at best.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    When did we start using “terrible person” to mean “someone I disagree with”?

    When did we start throwing up smokescreens to try and divert attention away from terrible people?

    I like apple pie better than cherry pie. I can disagree with someone about that without needing to think that they're a terrible person. This is not an apple pie vs cherry pie scenario.

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    That would sound weird if talking about some other profession. Mechanics criticize depiction of kaylee, mercenaries criticize depiction of jayne?

    Oh but everyone always criticizes the way their job is depicted in tv. It's just that most silly stereotypes are just dumb, whereas stereotypes about sex workers increase the risk of people treating them badly.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited January 22
    I feel like there was a littlefoot that got banned for this same sort of just asking questions nonsense. Could be wrong

    Anywho. I love Angel and Firefly. There's plenty of people that aren't Whedon that put work into them. But yeah, Whedon is shit. Just go away dude.

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  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    That would sound weird if talking about some other profession. Mechanics criticize depiction of kaylee, mercenaries criticize depiction of jayne?

    When your mechanic gets raped, beaten and murdered for being a mechanic, we'll have that conversation. Until then, stop being such a silly goose who pretends to not understand context.

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  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Just think, this is the guy that they chose to go with when they cancelled Sarah Connor Chronicles instead of friggin Dollhouse.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I feel like there was a littlefoot that got banned for this same sort of just asking questions nonsense. Could be wrong

    Anywho. I love Angel and Firefly. There's plenty of people that aren't Whedon that put work into them. But yeah, Whedon is shit. Just go away dude.

    Yeah, at least when it comes to stuff like those shows, they aren't solely created by the asshole in question, there are hundreds of artists involved in making a TV show. I have a harder time when it's a book author who made the art I love, but I can't say I throw those books out when I learn the author is a terrible person, either. I just try not to think of the author and try not to put anymore money in thier pocket (secondhand books ftw).

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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I've seen a handful of people taking to the news of what Whedon is really like and responding by retroactively digging through his stuff with this new context, the "Firefly Was Bad, Actually" take. Conversely we have people who are desperate to preserve Firefly in their minds, so they "Say it ain't so, Joss!" The second one is worse, of course, because the first one just "mistreats" a work of fiction and the second one mistreats actual victims.

    But I don't think either response is necessary, because those responses tie the quality of a creation to the decency of a creator. Obviously we wouldn't do that with other products: mass produced cars aren't less of a technological marvel because Henry Ford was a Nazi. I guess we do it with creative works because authors, by necessity, share something of themselves in their work. So if the author is a bad person, what does that say about their work? So you end up with people saying a work made by someone bad has to be bad, or the maker of a good work has to be good.

    This is not to say that you have to like Firefly. If you've always felt like it was crap, or hated the portrayal of the female characters, that is totally fair. I personally still love Firefly and think all the characters, male and female, are fantastically deep and interesting and refreshing. And that doesn't clash with me seeing that Whedon, objectively, has been revealed to be a terrible person. It's a shame, of course, but no one has taken the sky from me. For one thing, Whedon is not the sole creator of Zoe and Wash. And for another, even those aspects which were definitely his brain child, can still be good even if he was being creepy and abusive even as he created them.

    On the other hand, when it comes to an abusive creator, as opposed to just a creepy one, the "human cost" factor comes in. So, like, Red Dead 2 can still be a good game even though it was made via abuse. But it's not a good product because no matter how good it is, it was not worth the cost to make. What we do with the product afterwards is sort of a different question. I can definitely still enjoy Firefly (and since I have the box set no one is getting enriched by me watching it) but I don't know how I'd feel about watching a movie made with his involvement in the future (if that will ever even happen now).

    All this to say that I don't see the need to go back and read Whedon's own toxicity back into his works if it wasn't there. I still love Firefly and Dr. Horrible and Avengers (and I like Age of Ultron). Whedon's attitudes make me question whether Billy from Dr. Horrible was supposed to be sympathetic (I always saw him as tragic, but only as the author of his own misery, as a quintessential toxic nice guy). But I can still keep reading it the way I had before, though I totally get if that's not the case for someone else.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited January 22
    I think it's clear by this point that Joss Whedon is a guy who regularly mistreats the women around him, and I don't think he should be allowed to make anymore TV shows or be the boss of anyone else because he can't be trusted not to fall back on abuse.

    But I certainly don't feel the need to dig deep to find the flaws in all the works of his I liked before. For one thing, that's way more energy than the man deserves. The other thing is that - and this is not a popular opinion - a bad person can still make great art. A completely unethical person can invent a fictional world with utopian ethics at its core. I'm not saying that Firefly falls under that definition, since I think that world was intentionally a pretty bleak one, but I'm thinking of another asshole, Orson Scott Card, who somehow created a world (the Speaker for the Dead series) where inclusiveness was treated as the most important thing in the world. I've even heard in the past that Card was/is pro-socialism. I'm never going to give him anymore money for his books, but when the new Shadow book comes out, I'll get it second-hand and read it.

    I've been thinking more about how with the rise of the para-social relationship people just want to obliterate those who have committed crimes of one sort or another, in light of Lindsay Ellis withdrawing from Youtube. Not just making sure they don't get to be on TV or don't get to have Youtube views anymore, both of which are fine, but actually blasting people's emails and twitter with continuous threats and noise until that person has to just stop being on the internet. This more normally happens to women, so I don't expect Whedon has had to deal with it, but I also don't think he would deserve that if it is happening. And I genuinely hope that it's not! Take him off TV and film, don't send him an email, which becomes one among thousands upon thousands of his disappointed fans. If you want to send emails, save it for any studio that tries to give him another film, but individual humans aren't made to withstand that kind of torture and no one should have to. He doesn't need to be erased from time for what he's done, he just needs to retire. And I mean if we could get criminal charges for sexual harassment that would also be good but who knows if that's even possible, and if the victims are unwilling they deserve to be left in peace, too. Which makes me realize Gal Gadot and Charisma Carpenter are probably getting death threats for "ruining" Joss Whedon and uuuuuuugh.

    Edit: Pretty great take from Charisma Carpenter:

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  • jberryjberry longtime reader firsttime poster Fort Smith Ark USARegistered User regular
    edited January 23
    The best way to make people leave you alone is to come off like a terrible, bigoted, racist, disgusting human being.
    [ strikethrough mine ]

    not
    to come off like
    but
    to be

    theyll either leave you alone or youll get a book deal and ten million worshipers on youtube

    joss whedon is not his art so separate them if youve a sieve which finely sifts dogshit

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  • NadavNadav Registered User new member
    I just want to mention a typo here, the name is Gadot, not Godot

  • beeftruckbeeftruck Registered User regular
    Sinners and wrongthinkers had Whedon painted as the embodiment of the gross weird Male Feminist stereotype eons ago. I guess he's become irrelevant and unprofitable enough that people of virtue are allowed to notice now too.

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited January 23
    beeftruck wrote: »
    Sinners and wrongthinkers had Whedon painted as the embodiment of the gross weird Male Feminist stereotype eons ago. I guess he's become irrelevant and unprofitable enough that people of virtue are allowed to notice now too.

    I just remember watching Angel and having him "kill" Fred and thinking.. man Joss really has a fucking problem with happy couples.

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  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    beeftruck wrote: »
    Sinners and wrongthinkers had Whedon painted as the embodiment of the gross weird Male Feminist stereotype eons ago. I guess he's become irrelevant and unprofitable enough that people of virtue are allowed to notice now too.

    Or, you know, those incels painted him that way along with a swathe of other people they didn't like, and just managed to get lucky. But you believe what lets you get through the day, I guess.

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