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[Star Trek]: Now Playing: Lower Decks S3 (Latest seasons of current shows in spoilers)

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    The dialogue wasn't quite as crisp as last time, we were treated to ANOTHER trauma-infused backstory - the only kind Alex Kurtzman and his cronies seem to know how to write - and I remain deeply meh at the current era's insistence on treating the big hero ships like a fucking X-Wing, but none of that hugely mitigates against the overall sense of fun and good-natured, humane adventure.

    If memory serves, TNG had its fair share of traumatic backstories (Tasha with the rape gangs, Worf's parents murdered by Romulans, O'Brien in the UFP-Cardassian war, Picard getting stabbed by Naussicans and attacked while commanding the Stargazer, Wesley and Beverly with their father/husband, Data with Lore, Noonian, the colonists and the crystalline entity, Guinan with the Borg, Ro Laren and the Cardassians). And that's just within the main cast.

    Also did the Hemmer's character/disposition seem more understandable in the context of 'hazing' Uhura?

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    The dialogue wasn't quite as crisp as last time, we were treated to ANOTHER trauma-infused backstory - the only kind Alex Kurtzman and his cronies seem to know how to write - and I remain deeply meh at the current era's insistence on treating the big hero ships like a fucking X-Wing, but none of that hugely mitigates against the overall sense of fun and good-natured, humane adventure.

    If memory serves, TNG had its fair share of traumatic backstories (Tasha with the rape gangs, Worf's parents murdered by Romulans, O'Brien in the UFP-Cardassian war, Picard getting stabbed by Naussicans and attacked while commanding the Stargazer, Wesley and Beverly with their father/husband, Data with Lore, Noonian, the colonists and the crystalline entity, Guinan with the Borg, Ro Laren and the Cardassians). And that's just within the main cast.

    Also did the Hemmer's character/disposition seem more understandable in the context of 'hazing' Uhura?

    It is kind of weird how back in the 80s -90s the traumatic backgrounds were all there, but because we didn't get them front-loaded it seemed less traumatic. And also even once we did know about them, there wasn't a big reveal and a character-arc related to the trauma it was just, "Oh yeah, Tasha survived rape gangs on her home planet, a planet I'll remind you was filled with humans and yet somehow outside the federation, so like a human slum world? How does that work, and why don't we explore it? Whatevs, she's fine now and happily fucking robots, no big."

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I suspect that for good or ill, trauma and what you do with it is one of the major themes of the season. Which is fine, even if I can understand the desire to have characters who don't have tragic backstories.

    I honestly wasn't over bothered by the one outlined here - it was about equivalent to someone saying I lost my family in a car accident and was raised by my grandparents

    Which you know, isn't exactly uncommon all things considered.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Some thoughts post-digestion on Picard finale, specifically Q:
    I keep going back to Q saying he's dying alone. Aside from when he was briefly cast out of the Continuum, there was never any indication that he was alone. He had communication with other Q, he was their representative in trying to prevent Quinn's suicide, and during their civil war he was a faction leader. Why is he alone now?

    I went back to the Voyager Q episodes, and checked Discovery S4 where it's said that some time in the early 2500's was the last time anyone heard from a Q. I think I've settled on my theory as to why Q is dying alone: The Q as a whole are dying, and he's one of the last.

    Quinn's entire argument was that every word had been said, every discussion exhausted, every game solved, every experience had, the only unknown left was death, and he wanted to experience it.

    Q tried to deny him, but ultimately seems to have accepted his logic that the Continuum had nothing left, and facilitated his suicide. Some other events followed but the heart of it is that he didn't just bring death to the Continuum (he admits Q had died and even been killed before), but he brought out the idea that death was the next thing, the only experience left undone.

    Quinn won.

    Glyph wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    The dialogue wasn't quite as crisp as last time, we were treated to ANOTHER trauma-infused backstory - the only kind Alex Kurtzman and his cronies seem to know how to write - and I remain deeply meh at the current era's insistence on treating the big hero ships like a fucking X-Wing, but none of that hugely mitigates against the overall sense of fun and good-natured, humane adventure.

    If memory serves, TNG had its fair share of traumatic backstories (Tasha with the rape gangs, Worf's parents murdered by Romulans, O'Brien in the UFP-Cardassian war, Picard getting stabbed by Naussicans and attacked while commanding the Stargazer, Wesley and Beverly with their father/husband, Data with Lore, Noonian, the colonists and the crystalline entity, Guinan with the Borg, Ro Laren and the Cardassians). And that's just within the main cast.

    Also did the Hemmer's character/disposition seem more understandable in the context of 'hazing' Uhura?

    DS9, too - Sisko's wife, Bashir with the mommy/daddy issues, every Bajoran with the Occupation, Garak in exile, Ziyal abandoned, Odo got to have more than one, and we brought over O'Brien and Worf for a double dip.

    Voyager gave us comparatively few (Paris and Torres are the only ones I can think of) but most of them were all happy with their families and pets off the ship just so it would be more traumatic when they had that all ripped away. And when they completely failed to show any of that, they just gave Harry Kim a traumatic present to make up for all of it.

    Hevach on
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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    I count 31 primary characters between TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    Only 7 of them (Geordi, Dax, Quark, Tuvok, Janeway, Kim, and the Doctor) do not have tragic backstories.

    Mancingtom on
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I count 31 primary characters between TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    Only 7 of them (Geordi, Dax, Quark, Tuvok, Janeway, Kim, and the Doctor) do not have tragic backstories.

    I would argue with Dax. Jadzia dying is tragic for Ezri. And you know the whole murderer Dax that was suppressed.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I count 31 primary characters between TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    Only 7 of them (Geordi, Dax, Quark, Tuvok, Janeway, Kim, and the Doctor) do not have tragic backstories.

    Dax had some rather unpleasant previous hosts, Quark already wasted some good profit opportunities because of "conscience", and I doubt people started forgetting to turn the Doctor off when Voyager got to the delta quadrant.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    "Oh yeah, Tasha survived rape gangs on her home planet, a planet I'll remind you was filled with humans and yet somehow outside the federation, so like a human slum world? How does that work, and why don't we explore it? Whatevs, she's fine now and happily fucking robots, no big."

    Always wondered about this as well. Like there are just some human planets that would rather persist in squalor outside the Federation. To rape with impunity, apparently.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I can't remember Geordi ever getting any backstory, tragic or otherwise.
    I'd guess they figured 'blind' was enough of a backstory and they didn't need to add any more.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I can't remember Geordi ever getting any backstory, tragic or otherwise.
    I'd guess they figured 'blind' was enough of a backstory and they didn't need to add any more.

    A little bit here and there about the history of his implants giving him chronic headaches, but he had turned down upgrades.

    Before the episode where he learns his mom died he might as well have been decanted out of a test tube for all we knew about his family.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I can't remember Geordi ever getting any backstory, tragic or otherwise.
    I'd guess they figured 'blind' was enough of a backstory and they didn't need to add any more.

    They eventually killed off his mom. Or flung her into another quadrant depending on what you consider canon.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I'm going to set a line and say that things that happen to a character during a series don't count as backstory. Character development, sure.

    With spinoffs it can get more complicated. I guess I'd rule that Spock and Pike's adventures with Discovery can count as backstory for them in SNW and TOS.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I count 31 primary characters between TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    Only 7 of them (Geordi, Dax, Quark, Tuvok, Janeway, Kim, and the Doctor) do not have tragic backstories.

    I would argue with Dax. Jadzia dying is tragic for Ezri. And you know the whole murderer Dax that was suppressed.

    I thought about Dax, but I don't think the bad stuff in her past defined or established her character in the same way as tragic backstory types.

    Kira's character is defined by the bad things that happened to her before the story. If you took the Occupation away from her, she stops being Kira. If you skipped the episodes about Dax's shady past hosts or Lenara, Dax is still Dax.

    Riker, for example, isn't defined by having a deadbeat dad—but it's one of the first personal details we learn about him. It's part of how the story established his character. Dax was established through her generational friendship with Sisko and her zest for life, not by having shady past hosts.

    It's the same reason I don't consider Janeway to have a tragic backstory, even though she lost a parent the same way as Worf, Wesley, Troi, Jake, and Nog. Her father's death is a detail introduced after she's established and ultimately isn't that important to who she is.

    Mancingtom on
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I count 31 primary characters between TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    Only 7 of them (Geordi, Dax, Quark, Tuvok, Janeway, Kim, and the Doctor) do not have tragic backstories.

    I would argue with Dax. Jadzia dying is tragic for Ezri. And you know the whole murderer Dax that was suppressed.

    I thought about Dax, but I don't think the bad stuff in her past defined or established her character in the same way as tragic backstory types.

    Kira's character is defined by the bad things that happened to her before the story. If you took the Occupation away from her, she stops being Kira. If you skipped the episodes about Dax's shady past hosts or Lenara, Dax is still Dax.

    Riker, for example, isn't defined by having a deadbeat dad—but it's one of the first personal details we learn about him. It's part of how the story established his character. Dax was established through her generational friendship with Sisko and her zest for life, not by having shady past hosts.

    It's the same reason I don't consider Janeway to have a tragic backstory, even though she lost a parent the same way as Worf, Wesley, Troi, Jake, and Nog. Her father's death is a detail introduced after she's established and ultimately isn't that important to who she is.

    Jadzia Dax, sure. Her backstory contains her death(s), but it doesn't really define her or her roll on the show.

    Ezri I'd say was far more affected by Jadzia's death that Jadzia was by Kurzon. Possibly because she got shoved right back into Jadzia's life (probably why the Trill had all those rules about not going back to your old life/friends once you got joined).

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Surely, Kim wished upon a Monkey's Paw or got cursed by an old woman in a rickety hut or something. It's not explicitly said, but it's the only explanation.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    For a second, in the new SNW s01e02 episode, I thought the plot was going to be just like one of the Star Trek Adventures games I ran a few weeks ago, and I'm like "Oh god, I'm a haaaaaaaack." Luckily, it turned out not to be the case, and they ended up diverging. But it would be ironic, given that we seem to be having a season throughline of "predicting what will happen in the future". :)
    I loved the design of the Shepherds and their ship. I also like that Sam Kirk isn't just a one-off character for a joke in the first episode.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Looking not just at TV but also at comics etc, I think there's probably more focus on trauma (in fiction and in life) these days than there used to be - a sort of acknowledgement and affirmation that "this happened to you, we're not going to pretend it didn't, but it doesn't have to cripple you."
    I almost typed "define" there, but the problem is, for a lot of lazy writers it does.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    One thing I'm starting to notice is how they seem to be on an actual ship. For some reason I was just never convinced that the Discovery was a real, functional vessel or that its decks had any coherent floor plan. They always kind of looked like a collection of metal halls and rooms but they didn't feel like they were designed for people to really work and live in.

    Here, every section seems more intentional and purposeful.
    ffj3rr1lourx.jpg

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    I think a big part of that is being able to see the ceiling. It really gives the sense of being in a ship, it's roomy but there's still the slightly claustrophobic sense that you are definitely enclosed into a big box of steel (or megadurasteel or whatever ST ships are made of)

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    One thing I'm starting to notice is how they seem to be on an actual ship. For some reason I was just never convinced that the Discovery was a real, functional vessel or that its decks had any coherent floor plan. They always kind of looked like a collection of metal halls and rooms but they didn't feel like they were designed for people to really work and live in.

    Here, every section seems more intentional and purposeful.
    ffj3rr1lourx.jpg

    I think being brighter helps a lot. It's still Abrams-esque monochrome utlitarian, but you can actually see detail. Discovery's so dark that the ship feels like one gray room with the occasional lens flare. Here, there's enough light and color that it feels warm and textured.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Looking not just at TV but also at comics etc, I think there's probably more focus on trauma (in fiction and in life) these days than there used to be - a sort of acknowledgement and affirmation that "this happened to you, we're not going to pretend it didn't, but it doesn't have to cripple you."
    I almost typed "define" there, but the problem is, for a lot of lazy writers it does.

    This isn't to excuse those writers, but this is a thing that happens in humans, were we do have a tendency to boil people down unnecessarily. I remember hearing that some people after being diagnosed with cancer will withhold that information from friends and family, because once you have cancer then everything becomes about the cancer. Now that I've thought of that, I would be interested in some characters who were just like, "Captain, I know you've read my file, but we don't have to bring up my youth on a Death World every time I go on an away mission. I already have a counselor and you are not it."

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    It's still Abrams-esque

    Thankfully they didn't go too far in that direction. Lot of people have compared the Abrams Enterprise bridge to an Apple Store but to me it looks like a photoshoot studio or makeup room.

    bn9lry5doitm.jpg

    It's those damn bulbs.

    Glyph on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Looking not just at TV but also at comics etc, I think there's probably more focus on trauma (in fiction and in life) these days than there used to be - a sort of acknowledgement and affirmation that "this happened to you, we're not going to pretend it didn't, but it doesn't have to cripple you."
    I almost typed "define" there, but the problem is, for a lot of lazy writers it does.

    This isn't to excuse those writers, but this is a thing that happens in humans, were we do have a tendency to boil people down unnecessarily. I remember hearing that some people after being diagnosed with cancer will withhold that information from friends and family, because once you have cancer then everything becomes about the cancer. Now that I've thought of that, I would be interested in some characters who were just like, "Captain, I know you've read my file, but we don't have to bring up my youth on a Death World every time I go on an away mission. I already have a counselor and you are not it."

    This would be a great lower deck's episode. Especially if the captain is just all I'm trying my best!

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Looking not just at TV but also at comics etc, I think there's probably more focus on trauma (in fiction and in life) these days than there used to be - a sort of acknowledgement and affirmation that "this happened to you, we're not going to pretend it didn't, but it doesn't have to cripple you."
    I almost typed "define" there, but the problem is, for a lot of lazy writers it does.

    This isn't to excuse those writers, but this is a thing that happens in humans, were we do have a tendency to boil people down unnecessarily. I remember hearing that some people after being diagnosed with cancer will withhold that information from friends and family, because once you have cancer then everything becomes about the cancer. Now that I've thought of that, I would be interested in some characters who were just like, "Captain, I know you've read my file, but we don't have to bring up my youth on a Death World every time I go on an away mission. I already have a counselor and you are not it."

    This would be a great lower deck's episode. Especially if the captain is just all I'm trying my best!

    Also the councilor is Migleemo and his awful food metaphors. (Seriously trek, put more money into psychological health. It'll cut down on the insane admiral issue, i'm sure!)

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Ep 2 down, and it was a great episode.

    Anson Mount is just delightful. Nothing else to add.

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    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    things that were really great in SNWS01E02
    kirk was incapacitated but wasn't OMG HE IS GOING TO DIE IF WE DON"T DO SOMETHING IN 10 SECONDS!
    Uhura's tick at the party pays off later
    honesty being a big theme and hopefully there will be a payoff with the captain later on
    the ship getting damaged but not going from 100 to 0 in 1 hit even though the aliens are clearly stronger
    several of the scenes just had time to breathe
    the engineer mocking the helm person for volunteering them solving the problem on a timeline
    not a perfect episode, as someone else mentioned
    there was a definite disconnect about how and why those music notes lowered the shield but it was like whatever, ok, they needed the ship to not view them as threats i guess that's enough.

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    MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Pike deffo has my command style, where I definitely love the work but sometimes I just need turn to my coworkers and go "Are these goobers for real??"

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Episode 2!

    A 90% lovely episode all about classic Trek stuff. Communication, problem solving, all that good stuff. We got Pike set in the first episode and now we're off to engage even moar with the bridge crew and it's great. It's not the Pike show and that's great to see.

    I cannot wait for an Ortegas episode cause she hasn't been fleshed out much but is already a favorite of mine. I'm loving her entire wildcard vibe.
    Writing wise I can really do without the every character is heavily traumatized and needs therapy thing. All of new Trek is riding this so hard it has become obnoxious. At this point a single well adjusted character would be a breath of fresh air.

    The biggest plot criticism I had is that a TOS shuttle being able to generate that much heat is stretching the Trek magic too far for my tastes.

    That's a terrifying amount of thermal energy the shuttle would need to be outputting and afaik we've never seem any Trek vessel do this before. If a shuttle can output that much heat, what could a starship do? That's, uh, terrifying. Imagine if instead of a protracted orbital campaign a starship just got into atmosphere and flipped their baked potato switch.

    RIP

    I fucking love Hemmee already. His crack back at the modification suggestion another person made was pure "eat my ass" energy and instantly made me fall in love with him cause that's just me at my actual job.

    TOGSolid on
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    The Aenar’s name is Hemmer. But the name hasn’t been said much. I only know it because I’ve been obsessively watching preview clips over and over.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    The Aenar’s name is Hemmer. But the name hasn’t been said much. I only know it because I’ve been obsessively watching preview clips over and over.

    Woot, thanks. I really need repetition to learn names.

    Speaking of Hemmer
    The more I think about his convo with Uhura the more that scene reaks of well intentioned bad writing.

    At no point do we see him having issues with cutting anything. He's just vibing and chopping veggies nbd and the important bit is *we actually see him doing it.* At no point did I see him having any issues that would warrant seeing if he needed a hand.

    So here comes Uhura instantly asking if he needs help purely based on his blindness rather than on what he's actually doing which is isn't just naivete, it's actually offensive. She just saw him with a knife and butted in instead of waiting half a second and seeing if he actually needed any or seeing if anyone already there was going "uhhh" but were too hesitant to say anything.

    Now, yes, sometimes writing is done in service of the whole "look at the audience and tell them to knock this shit off" morality tale thing which I get! But then she exits the convo playing it off as it was some hazing thing instead of acknowledging what just happened.

    It just makes her look like an asshole that got caught out more than anything.

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
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    VontreVontre Registered User regular
    I have some bad news about the amount of energy it would theoretically take to travel through interstellar space. Yeah, a single unopposed starship being able to obliterate a planet's surface is not out of line. I doubt the writing has been really consistent on this though, but the amount of heat the shuttle generated is likely underselling what it's capable of. Things get real weird in future-tech levels of energy throughput. I think it's really funny that they've said on a few separate occasions that a direct hit from a nuclear bomb would have absolutely no effect on starship shields. Technological escalation makes sense but it gets real weird and spooky when you think about the ramifications of so much energy being harnessed.

    Unrelated, this might be the first time we've ever seen "evasive maneuvers" actually be an effective tactic haha.

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    StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Look I'm not saying Ortegas needs to be the pilot in the next Mass Effect game but I'm not not saying it.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    "Captain, I know you've read my file, but we don't have to bring up my youth on a Death World every time I go on an away mission. I already have a counselor and you are not it."
    At Starfleet Academy, post DS9:
    "Sir, I know you've read my file, and if you're worried about my Tragic Backstory-"
    "Actually O'Brien, I haven't finished it yet. I can only spare one hour a night to get through it, so it's going to take a while. I'm up to 'H'."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Re: Strange New Worlds Ep 2
    The attention to detail is RIDICULOUS. Did anyone else catch the shield flares from the Enterprise's hull caused by the rocks coming off of the comet? Also, we're back to beam phasers from phaser emitters which is niiiice.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Yeah, Enterprise had those same phasers in Enterprise season 2. It's basically the only thing comprehensible in that whole mess of nonsense that was the space battle in the season finale.

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    RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    Can I just praise the tone and pace of Strange New Worlds? It feels like a more relaxed and purposeful pace than certain other new Trek shows. It made for a really enjoyable watch where I felt like I knew these characters better in 2 episodes than 3 seasons of Discovery. Character was revealed through the events of the episode and mostly felt organic and earned. No breathless running through corridors, frenetic camera movement, or tearful confessions (we came close!).

    It felt like a balance of character and just enough plot to keep things going with some classic Trek problems.

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    SNWE2
    "We don't change the path of developing cultures but we don't just let them die"

    Ahahahahahahaha no.

    Otherwise just a great episode that mixes high concept sci-fi with lots of personal scenes that get to just... exist? Similar to Lower Decks the fact that we get scenes that feel like the universe is lived in.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    SNWE2
    "We don't change the path of developing cultures but we don't just let them die"

    Ahahahahahahaha no.

    Otherwise just a great episode that mixes high concept sci-fi with lots of personal scenes that get to just... exist? Similar to Lower Decks the fact that we get scenes that feel like the universe is lived in.

    To be fair
    This is the Kirk era, before the prime directive became a conveniant excuse for non-action.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    SNWE2
    "We don't change the path of developing cultures but we don't just let them die"

    Ahahahahahahaha no.

    Otherwise just a great episode that mixes high concept sci-fi with lots of personal scenes that get to just... exist? Similar to Lower Decks the fact that we get scenes that feel like the universe is lived in.

    To be fair
    This is the Kirk era, before the prime directive became a conveniant excuse for non-action.
    The whole thing struck me a bit as competing versions of the PD: Kirk (and Pike) era "just don't let anyone see you" vs TNG-et-al "WE MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH GOD'S PLAN".

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    The Orville returns on June 2.

    https://youtu.be/LThmwpdJx4o

    Looking schmexy! Also, RIP Norm MacDonald.

    Hahnsoo1 on
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