HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
god help me, I liked Episode 2
Still nits though
The fact that they had to make the ending a cliffhanger was stupid as hell. We know they'll get to 2024, what's the point. Make the ending them time jumping around the sun and cut to black then. These new Trek shows still have so many artificial stakes Just to streeeetch into these season long arcs, I hate it.
Also Q punching Picard and him getting all bloody in staying bloody for aaaaages until he finally wipes it off was stupid. Gotta be edgy!!!!
With that said I'm enjoying the concept of this season for sure so we'll see!
Man, Balance of Terror is like one of the best TOS episodes.
Also the "not my trek" people are probably 40-somethings who grew up on TNG (Guilty as charged) rather than 60-somethings who grew up on TOS.
I'm a 40-something and I grew up on reruns of old Trek. It was the only thing my whole family gathered around the TV to watch.
You're not a "not my trek" person though, are you?
Oh, definitely not! But that's partly because when TNG came out I thought it was a dumb knock-off of my favorite show and I was giving youthful "not my Trek" vibes though I never used those exact words. Then I gave it a chance and turns out I liked it! So I got that shit out of my system early.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Honestly I'll stick to it forever but any not my trek folks are just... did they watch the shows?
The tone, quality and even canon fluctuates at will and it's literally just them going "I Have decided I am old now and Disco/Lower Decks is some obscene version of the show I liked"
Honestly I'll stick to it forever but any not my trek folks are just... did they watch the shows?
The tone, quality and even canon fluctuates at will and it's literally just them going "I Have decided I am old now and Disco/Lower Decks is some obscene version of the show I liked"
Why watch the shows when you can have a fully-formed opinion from watching an out-of-context YouTube clip to confirm your biases?
You can even cut out the middleman and just have a sweaty YouTube person TELL you what to think. Or your pastor. Who may also be a sweaty YouTube person. I dunno.
EDIT: I don't care if folks don't like a thing. People are allowed to not like things! I don't like a lot of prestige TV out there, especially shit about antiheroes that isn't leavened with a healthy dose of humor. But when they speak as if they had authority on a subject that they know nothing about or have no experience on... that's when my eyes glaze over. Also, the tendency for some people (mostly on Reddit) to write long and extensive paragraphs to shit in other people's Cheerios when the room clearly just wants to geek out about something they love is weird (and this is a bias at work, because you only really remember the folks who post the long diatribes... the quiet "I don't like a thing" people tend not to make an impression). Critique is great, sure! But read the room, ShadowKargon1192.
Honestly I'll stick to it forever but any not my trek folks are just... did they watch the shows?
The tone, quality and even canon fluctuates at will and it's literally just them going "I Have decided I am old now and Disco/Lower Decks is some obscene version of the show I liked"
Why watch the shows when you can have a fully-formed opinion from watching an out-of-context YouTube clip to confirm your biases?
See also: All of media fandom out there.
I literally wish I could effectively ban youtube from ever suggesting Star Trek things.
Because it's all just "Disco said something different to TNG and therefore it's all bad garbage"
In one of my Star Trek Adventures campaigns, I had the PCs arrive at a planet that was remarkably similar to Earth, except that it was entirely populated by famous people from the 20th century... folks that have a well-curated Wikipedia entry or would have been in an encyclopedia or Who's Who of various media franchises*. To "blend in", the PCs all took on costumes to make them look like famous people like Andy Warhol.
One of the PCs picked Patrick Stewart. "Oh yeah, he was that famous 20th century Shakespearean actor who played Professor X in that comic book franchise movie." Another person picked Leonard Nimoy. "He was in many episodes of Mission Impossible. Also, he was famous for singing "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins", right?" "Star Trek" as a media franchise does not exist in the history of the Star Trek universe.
* It turns out that the planet was created by an entity whose only exposure to Earth culture was from a history database.
Honestly I'll stick to it forever but any not my trek folks are just... did they watch the shows?
The tone, quality and even canon fluctuates at will and it's literally just them going "I Have decided I am old now and Disco/Lower Decks is some obscene version of the show I liked"
Why watch the shows when you can have a fully-formed opinion from watching an out-of-context YouTube clip to confirm your biases?
See also: All of media fandom out there.
I literally wish I could effectively ban youtube from ever suggesting Star Trek things.
Because it's all just "Disco said something different to TNG and therefore it's all bad garbage"
Most of my Star Trek YouTube suggestions are actually "Here's the cast of DS9/Enterprise/TNG, 20 years later!" in a "Where are they now?" video format, which is kind of cool to see. Also, this: https://youtu.be/5cWkEm1HT70
The thing that took me out of the scene the most I'm Picard ep 2 was
rinky dink little stage and small crowd for the speech of the president of the confederation. Plus plastic looking banners in the back
Might count as a og star trek throwback on the other hand. 60s TV budget.
See, it makes sense to me:
An autocratic fascist dictatorship would probably limit the audience due to security reasons, and would make sure to only have enthusiastic supporters up front and center to be seen on camera so everything is seen as Good and Proper and We Love the Empire.
After 2016 and "hyoooge crowds" LOL, I think it's more realistic this way.
The plastic-looking banners, though... that's just lazy. They have holograms! You have every excuse to use gaudy, obvious CG. Yeah, it's more costly, I know.
The thing that took me out of the scene the most I'm Picard ep 2 was
rinky dink little stage and small crowd for the speech of the president of the confederation. Plus plastic looking banners in the back
Might count as a og star trek throwback on the other hand. 60s TV budget.
Eh, the President, Captain Kingshit Genocide and the Borg queen are all on stage together. You're going to want to limit the amount of people who have access to that event, lest one of the trillion people who the Confederation has pissed off decides to try and take a potshot.
Man, Balance of Terror is like one of the best TOS episodes.
Also the "not my trek" people are probably 40-somethings who grew up on TNG (Guilty as charged) rather than 60-somethings who grew up on TOS.
I'm a 40-something and I grew up on reruns of old Trek. It was the only thing my whole family gathered around the TV to watch.
You're not a "not my trek" person though, are you?
Oh, definitely not! But that's partly because when TNG came out I thought it was a dumb knock-off of my favorite show and I was giving youthful "not my Trek" vibes though I never used those exact words. Then I gave it a chance and turns out I liked it! So I got that shit out of my system early.
I went through a similar thing after growing up on TNG. I eventually decided that maybe these new series weren't just the worst, and maybe I should give them a fair shot. They had even recently announced a new one starring one of my favorite Sci-Fi actors from the 90s! Understandably, it took me a long time to go back and try DS9 after that experience.
The fascist future looks like low budget shite because they're fascists.
You can apply any material condition analysis to that you want but: Fascists suck and are fascists remans true.
Q also says they arent as technologically advanced.
But they took out the Borg somehow?
Maybe the blades and bullets theory holds merit.
Though that wouldn't explain how they took out the Klingons and Cardassians.
They had a pretty low tech, and straight forward to take out the Borg once upon a time. They even somewhat reference going down a similar path mentioning that isolating them makes the Borg much less of a threat. I have been reading it as relative intelligence is the same but twisting the mind towards genocide rather than peace. It would line up with both Picard and Sisko ending up as Generals as they both were very clever tactically when the job required it.
The fascist future looks like low budget shite because they're fascists.
You can apply any material condition analysis to that you want but: Fascists suck and are fascists remans true.
Q also says they arent as technologically advanced.
But they took out the Borg somehow?
Maybe the blades and bullets theory holds merit.
Though that wouldn't explain how they took out the Klingons and Cardassians.
They had a pretty low tech, and straight forward to take out the Borg once upon a time. They even somewhat reference going down a similar path mentioning that isolating them makes the Borg much less of a threat. I have been reading it as relative intelligence is the same but twisting the mind towards genocide rather than peace. It would line up with both Picard and Sisko ending up as Generals as they both were very clever tactically when the job required it.
Or maybe they used something like that weird impossible shape virus that they came up with in the normal timeline.
The fascist future looks like low budget shite because they're fascists.
You can apply any material condition analysis to that you want but: Fascists suck and are fascists remans true.
Q also says they arent as technologically advanced.
But they took out the Borg somehow?
Maybe the blades and bullets theory holds merit.
Though that wouldn't explain how they took out the Klingons and Cardassians.
Technology may not be as advanced, but their weapons and ships are still probably better
The Klingons were technologically behind the Federation in TOS and TNG, but were still militarily a reasonable match. And where the Federation fought to hold its borders against both the Klingons and Cardassians, the Confederation took a similar path to the Terran Empire and brought the sky down on their worlds. The Federation has always had muscle far beyond what it's willing to flex, and the Confederation or Terran Empire don't share the same restraint.
The fall of the Borg seems to be much more recent, and is likely the Confederation only finished them off. The Species 8472 war still happened, Unimatrix 0 still destabilized the collective and without Voyager trying to interfere was probably never caught. The Borg we see starting in The Descent were showing plenty of loose threads and the galaxy was looking to pull at them.
Had a couple hours to kill so watched the first two S2 Picard episodes.
They're ok?
First the ugh
The self referential nod and wink jokes like
Guinen works at 10 bar on Forward street
Q's Yesterday's Enterprise and through a mirror darkly lines (though that second one might get a pass since he was doing a full quote)
Spot-73
Can just fuck off. That sorta humor doesn't work here and even Lower Decks would have left it in the bin.
I can also do without them reusing familiar Federation ship names for their "I recognize the thing!" value
Coulda done without Elnor slitting someone's throat that implicitly. Sure, the Klingons have definitely cut some people down but it was always filmed very PG. So the second one was fine but that first implicit one just feels outta place for Trek.
The eh
Hard to gauge how this season will pan out. I actually liked episode 1 for the most part but then the season teaser is all INTENSE ACTION DRAMA MUSIC AHHHH which just put a sense of dread in me.
The Borg Queen in episode 1 being all cloaked and mysterious is concerning. Since when do the Borg have tailors or give a shit about presentation? Then with her quoting Picard's mom it's just all setting off my "oh no" alarms.
There's definitely some obvious band-aiding going on to try and patch Season 1's fuck ups but I'll take that over them not learning at all.
Q and the Borg and time travel do feel like a "fuck it, let's just bring back the greatest hits" play by the writers. Could go either way with this one depending on how things play out.
They put Borg tech in their ships and are shocked the Borg can access it. Lol. Lmao. This is why you gotta be careful with your smart home devices kids.
The good!
Pacing feels much better now that it's just the gang doing stuff together on an adventure instead of trying to shoehorn in b plots in other places with boring ass characters and everyone having c plot melodramatic personal issues that occupy way too much run time. Everyone has a role in the crew (quite nicely highlighted by who ends up where in the Confederation) and I'm actually enjoying how they fit together this time around. Even Agnes is fun despite 100% needing to be in space jail.
The costuming and set design are well done. I particularly loved the Stargazer bridge and how it looks like a natural evolution of higher tech Starfleet design. That money shot of the ship was ace too.
Ayy, it's not a copy paste fleet this time!
John de Lancie still fucking kills it as Q and tbh I'm more curious what's going on with him than anything else. Q is having a bad time and being super cagey about it. I kinda hope the season is more about that than anything dumb like Picard's mom. Like, the trial Q is pushing right now is more just him not knowing any better way to handle his problems than fucking with Picard, that could be fun.
So yeah, it's off to a tentatively decent start with noticeable improvements from Season 1 already visible but also some eye roll references and huge glaring potential for this all to get very, very stupid.
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
+1
Options
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
It may be that the Borg were in a place of such need, with no time to spare, that they made this desperate last gasp at communicating that need so that it ends up appearing hostile.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
It may be that the Borg were in a place of such need, with no time to spare, that they made this desperate last gasp at communicating that need so that it ends up appearing hostile.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
Picard Spoilers
The Borg Queen also did make it crystal clear they had no hostile intentions. Someone, I think 7, calls out that everyone who has attacked the Queen has only been stunned by return fire. She knew they were trying to kill her and still made sure to disable rather than harm. Everyone was reacting to what she might be doing and ignoring the signs of what she was doing.
Unrelated, but the other Borg Queen being fully visible and using Locutus has pretty much confirmed for me she will be Picard's mom. I am guessing alternate timeline shenanigans which is... better I guess? Not thrilled at that ticking time bomb of a revelation, but I am still loving this series. Season 1 had plenty of issues and I still think it might be my third favorite bit of Trek after TNG and Lower Decks.
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
It may be that the Borg were in a place of such need, with no time to spare, that they made this desperate last gasp at communicating that need so that it ends up appearing hostile.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
That’s probably the way they’re going to go, but
even if we ignore that they had time to wait for Picard to show up and write that off as time portal shenanigans, they had enough room to transmit the entirety of article 15, which means plenty of time to add some nuance or context to their message. And then once the Borg Queen is on the ship, she can and does talk, and at no point even tries to claim that what she’s doing isn’t exactly what it appears to be. It’s especially galling because there’s like an 80% chance that it’s going to be a main character from time travel nonsense under that mask, who would know perfectly well what this looks like and how to reassure Picard.
It's perfectly logical to view the Borg's actions—hiding their identity, transporting aboard the Stagazer without permission, and subverting the fleet—as hostile and respond accordingly.
But Trek constantly, constantly, holds that one should do the right thing even if it at first seems illogical. That theme appears in every Trek series. Consider Picard's refusal to destroy the Borg through Hugh or his future self rallying the crew in All Good Things.
When Picard triggered the auto-destruct, he was acting like a soldier when he shoud've been thinking like an explorer. So he ends up in "a world of [his] own making," where he is a perfect soldier in a land ruled by perfect soldiers.
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
It may be that the Borg were in a place of such need, with no time to spare, that they made this desperate last gasp at communicating that need so that it ends up appearing hostile.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
My thought:
Like in Scorpion, the Borg know what negotiation is and how it works, but are unaccustomed to it and refuse to negotiate from a position of perceived weakness. Like when they tried to seize Voyager during their negotiation, they are establishing that they still have the upper hand.
0
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I think there's an issue in that
the Borg Collective comes with a whole lot of baggage attached as far as assumed hostility goes. You can drop some subtle cues that maybe this time they're not trying to kill everyone, but it's kind of hard to get from that to Picard's actions being some sort of moral failing given the situation. Sure, maybe this one time the Borg aren't there to take over the ship and turn everyone into body horror cyborgs with no free will, but the Borg have a bit of a track record when it comes to showing up uninvited on someone's ship and accessing the main computer.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+3
Options
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
"My Trek" is DS9, so very much liking season 2 of Picard so far
I WANT EVIL SISKO!
+5
Options
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
"My Trek" is DS9, so very much liking season 2 of Picard so far
I WANT EVIL SISKO!
Evil Sisko was such a tease, there's no way they're actually gonna give him to us. They knew they can just throw it out there like 'SEND THEM TO EVIL NEELIX'
Later developments and revelations in DS9 made it pretty clear that Sisko's very existence was due to the intervention of the Prophets. What role, then, did they want him to play, what did they intend for him to do for Bajor, in this altered timeline? Did he?
0
Options
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
Later developments and revelations in DS9 made it pretty clear that Sisko's very existence was due to the intervention of the Prophets. What role, then, did they want him to play, what did they intend for him to do for Bajor, in this altered timeline? Did he?
I'm almost 100% certain that
Picard writers didn't give it that much thought and it was just an Easter egg
Watched both Picard S2 episodes last night. I liked them a lot, but one detail that bothers me
they seem to be pretty clearly aiming at “those Borg weren’t being hostile, Picard should’ve trusted them”, which is just… ridiculous? The Borg Queen has broken into their ship and then started forcibly seizing control over it, despite the crew voicing their objection to both actions. I’m not saying that it’s impossible for her actions to turn out to be benign and far less hostile than they appear, but it’s completely justified for someone to assume it’s an attack they need to defend against. This feels like “sure, that guy in the bar made some crude comments about you, tried to corner you in the bathroom, and kept offering you drinks, but you know, maybe he’s actually a really nice guy! You shouldn’t have been so rude with him.”
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
It may be that the Borg were in a place of such need, with no time to spare, that they made this desperate last gasp at communicating that need so that it ends up appearing hostile.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
Picard Spoilers
The Borg Queen also did make it crystal clear they had no hostile intentions. Someone, I think 7, calls out that everyone who has attacked the Queen has only been stunned by return fire. She knew they were trying to kill her and still made sure to disable rather than harm. Everyone was reacting to what she might be doing and ignoring the signs of what she was doing.
Unrelated, but the other Borg Queen being fully visible and using Locutus has pretty much confirmed for me she will be Picard's mom. I am guessing alternate timeline shenanigans which is... better I guess? Not thrilled at that ticking time bomb of a revelation, but I am still loving this series. Season 1 had plenty of issues and I still think it might be my third favorite bit of Trek after TNG and Lower Decks.
It also has to be noted, the Borg lie. Every single time up to this point where something exceptional has happened and the Borg resort to negotiation (which they will only do after force has already failed), that dialogue has proven to be a deception to allow them to employ force again somewhere down the line.
So it really doesn't matter if a Borg shows up waving a white flag and asking you talk, anyone with as much knowledge of the Borgs MO as Picard will be franticly looking for the other shoe to drop. Presenting it as a moral failure on his part to trust the Borg ignores literally every single experience Picard (and every other Starfleet captain that has encountered them) has had.
+1
Options
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
Later developments and revelations in DS9 made it pretty clear that Sisko's very existence was due to the intervention of the Prophets. What role, then, did they want him to play, what did they intend for him to do for Bajor, in this altered timeline? Did he?
I don't remember all the ins and outs of Prophets and what not. But alternate-universe Sisko did exist in DS9.
Later developments and revelations in DS9 made it pretty clear that Sisko's very existence was due to the intervention of the Prophets. What role, then, did they want him to play, what did they intend for him to do for Bajor, in this altered timeline? Did he?
Regarding you concern:
The Prophets rarely care about anything in the corporeal universe. When they do, it's about Bajor or Sisko. They engineered the Emissary's existence because he needed to exist in order to meet them, without any heed to whether said Emissary was a good person.
It's entirely possible for General Sisko to have met the Prophets, used the resulting influence to conquer Bajor, then gone on about his day.
Posts
Still nits though
Also Q punching Picard and him getting all bloody in staying bloody for aaaaages until he finally wipes it off was stupid. Gotta be edgy!!!!
With that said I'm enjoying the concept of this season for sure so we'll see!
Also the "not my trek" people are probably 40-somethings who grew up on TNG (Guilty as charged) rather than 60-somethings who grew up on TOS.
I'm a 40-something and I grew up on reruns of old Trek. It was the only thing my whole family gathered around the TV to watch.
You're not a "not my trek" person though, are you?
Yeah I'm really not joking that the episode just... made near zero impact on me.
Like the main take away I have from it is "this is why Enterprise could never show a romulan? Ain't worth it"
But also this is me looking back on a series as long as 2 series of modern stuff so I've probably forgot details?
Oh, definitely not! But that's partly because when TNG came out I thought it was a dumb knock-off of my favorite show and I was giving youthful "not my Trek" vibes though I never used those exact words. Then I gave it a chance and turns out I liked it! So I got that shit out of my system early.
The tone, quality and even canon fluctuates at will and it's literally just them going "I Have decided I am old now and Disco/Lower Decks is some obscene version of the show I liked"
See also: All of media fandom out there.
EDIT: I don't care if folks don't like a thing. People are allowed to not like things! I don't like a lot of prestige TV out there, especially shit about antiheroes that isn't leavened with a healthy dose of humor. But when they speak as if they had authority on a subject that they know nothing about or have no experience on... that's when my eyes glaze over. Also, the tendency for some people (mostly on Reddit) to write long and extensive paragraphs to shit in other people's Cheerios when the room clearly just wants to geek out about something they love is weird (and this is a bias at work, because you only really remember the folks who post the long diatribes... the quiet "I don't like a thing" people tend not to make an impression). Critique is great, sure! But read the room, ShadowKargon1192.
I literally wish I could effectively ban youtube from ever suggesting Star Trek things.
Because it's all just "Disco said something different to TNG and therefore it's all bad garbage"
One of the PCs picked Patrick Stewart. "Oh yeah, he was that famous 20th century Shakespearean actor who played Professor X in that comic book franchise movie." Another person picked Leonard Nimoy. "He was in many episodes of Mission Impossible. Also, he was famous for singing "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins", right?" "Star Trek" as a media franchise does not exist in the history of the Star Trek universe.
* It turns out that the planet was created by an entity whose only exposure to Earth culture was from a history database.
After 2016 and "hyoooge crowds" LOL, I think it's more realistic this way.
The plastic-looking banners, though... that's just lazy. They have holograms! You have every excuse to use gaudy, obvious CG.
You can apply any material condition analysis to that you want but: Fascists suck and are fascists remans true.
I went through a similar thing after growing up on TNG. I eventually decided that maybe these new series weren't just the worst, and maybe I should give them a fair shot. They had even recently announced a new one starring one of my favorite Sci-Fi actors from the 90s! Understandably, it took me a long time to go back and try DS9 after that experience.
Maybe the blades and bullets theory holds merit.
Though that wouldn't explain how they took out the Klingons and Cardassians.
The Klingons were technologically behind the Federation in TOS and TNG, but were still militarily a reasonable match. And where the Federation fought to hold its borders against both the Klingons and Cardassians, the Confederation took a similar path to the Terran Empire and brought the sky down on their worlds. The Federation has always had muscle far beyond what it's willing to flex, and the Confederation or Terran Empire don't share the same restraint.
The fall of the Borg seems to be much more recent, and is likely the Confederation only finished them off. The Species 8472 war still happened, Unimatrix 0 still destabilized the collective and without Voyager trying to interfere was probably never caught. The Borg we see starting in The Descent were showing plenty of loose threads and the galaxy was looking to pull at them.
They're ok?
First the ugh
Guinen works at 10 bar on Forward street
Q's Yesterday's Enterprise and through a mirror darkly lines (though that second one might get a pass since he was doing a full quote)
Spot-73
Can just fuck off. That sorta humor doesn't work here and even Lower Decks would have left it in the bin.
I can also do without them reusing familiar Federation ship names for their "I recognize the thing!" value
Coulda done without Elnor slitting someone's throat that implicitly. Sure, the Klingons have definitely cut some people down but it was always filmed very PG. So the second one was fine but that first implicit one just feels outta place for Trek.
The eh
The Borg Queen in episode 1 being all cloaked and mysterious is concerning. Since when do the Borg have tailors or give a shit about presentation? Then with her quoting Picard's mom it's just all setting off my "oh no" alarms.
There's definitely some obvious band-aiding going on to try and patch Season 1's fuck ups but I'll take that over them not learning at all.
Q and the Borg and time travel do feel like a "fuck it, let's just bring back the greatest hits" play by the writers. Could go either way with this one depending on how things play out.
They put Borg tech in their ships and are shocked the Borg can access it. Lol. Lmao. This is why you gotta be careful with your smart home devices kids.
The good!
The costuming and set design are well done. I particularly loved the Stargazer bridge and how it looks like a natural evolution of higher tech Starfleet design. That money shot of the ship was ace too.
Ayy, it's not a copy paste fleet this time!
John de Lancie still fucking kills it as Q and tbh I'm more curious what's going on with him than anything else. Q is having a bad time and being super cagey about it. I kinda hope the season is more about that than anything dumb like Picard's mom. Like, the trial Q is pushing right now is more just him not knowing any better way to handle his problems than fucking with Picard, that could be fun.
So yeah, it's off to a tentatively decent start with noticeable improvements from Season 1 already visible but also some eye roll references and huge glaring potential for this all to get very, very stupid.
I was bothered by that as well, Strikor did point something out to me that makes sense though.
So to use your analogy of a guy at the bar, it's as if a guy who is diabetic and suffering the effects of high blood sugar starts acting confused and hostile, vomits at the bar and then he realizes what is happening and grabs the lapels of the nearest stranger, crying "help me!"
To the outside world he just looks like a belligerent drunk, but only the woman who's lapels he grabbed would smell the fruity breath and could maybe suss out that this was someone on the verge of a diabetic coma and that they should call 911. So maybe Picard had enough info in the moment to know this was a legit cry for help but he let fear override that - Q does seem to be implying that Picard had enough to know.
Picard Spoilers
Unrelated, but the other Borg Queen being fully visible and using Locutus has pretty much confirmed for me she will be Picard's mom. I am guessing alternate timeline shenanigans which is... better I guess? Not thrilled at that ticking time bomb of a revelation, but I am still loving this series. Season 1 had plenty of issues and I still think it might be my third favorite bit of Trek after TNG and Lower Decks.
That’s probably the way they’re going to go, but
(not really a spoiler, just speculation, but whatever)
But Trek constantly, constantly, holds that one should do the right thing even if it at first seems illogical. That theme appears in every Trek series. Consider Picard's refusal to destroy the Borg through Hugh or his future self rallying the crew in All Good Things.
When Picard triggered the auto-destruct, he was acting like a soldier when he shoud've been thinking like an explorer. So he ends up in "a world of [his] own making," where he is a perfect soldier in a land ruled by perfect soldiers.
My thought:
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
As I said before, though:
I'm almost 100% certain that
So it really doesn't matter if a Borg shows up waving a white flag and asking you talk, anyone with as much knowledge of the Borgs MO as Picard will be franticly looking for the other shoe to drop. Presenting it as a moral failure on his part to trust the Borg ignores literally every single experience Picard (and every other Starfleet captain that has encountered them) has had.
Let's just call him Pah-Wraith Summoned Sisko
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Regarding you concern:
It's entirely possible for General Sisko to have met the Prophets, used the resulting influence to conquer Bajor, then gone on about his day.