Kira was being played by a different actress. I was 50/50 on Quark being played by a different actor too.
Like, I know it's been 30 years. but man I was having trouble recognizing them.
Visitor sounded her age to me but it probably didn't help that they basically drew her as she appeared in S1 of DS9. STO probably isn't canon anymore but her appearance there continued from her look during the Dominion War so you get a better sense of the passage of time. That said, it's good the LD writers remembered she ranked up to Colonel by the end of the series.
Also,
Mesk the poser Orion reminded me a lot of Worf - someone raised outside his culture who ends up inadvertently embracing a lot of the stereotypes of his people to the point of almost being a caricature. Whether intentional or not, it's actually a pretty clever commentary on members of diaspora communities who sometimes end up exoticizing or "othering" their own ancestral heritage to varying degrees. Think Irish-Americans who dress up as leprechauns on St. Paddy's or Black Americans who attended screenings of Black Panther in dashikis and kufis.
I remember talking to Kenyan colleague who actually found the movie extremely offensive. When I asked why, he simply said, "A hyper-advanced African nation that still uses spears? With thatched-roof skyscrapers? Are you fucking kidding me?! There were reports of similar reactions in Asia to Crazy Rich Asians, a film lauded by Asian Americans as a milestone but viewed in Asia proper - where nations have had their own film industries for decades - as just shallow and uninspired. Many Singaporean and Chinese critics were quick to point out that for all its noise about celebrating Asians inclusiveness, so many of its characters were reduced to just decades-old caricatures frozen in time (the heartless mother that cares more about the family name than individual happiness, the cheating husband who takes his wife for granted while feeling inadequate, the gaudy affluent with their hideous taste, etc). All while ignoring the more nuanced aspects of Singaporean society, like how multicultural and multiracial it actually is (Indian-Singaporeans are all but absent in the movie).
American communities seem to be much more forgiving if not outright ecstatic about seeing their nations of origin depicted in exaggerated terms that delineate clear and distinct group identities, but there definitely can be something off-putting and even dehumanizing about Hollywood's embrace of cultural and racial stereotypes in the name of trying to be more inclusive, something that often gets lost on "melting pot" Americans but become much more pronounced when viewed by the actual people whose cultures are supposedly being represented.
Not Jennifer, that's Jake's mom. Ben's mom was Sarah, who we only see in flashback and picture form. The first we hear about her is that she left as soon as Ben was born and his dad remarried (his stepmother is never named or shown and is passed, but was apparently a good wife and mother when she was alive). She was literally given a name and face only as setup for her being possessed by a space god.
You’re right, I meant Sarah Sisko! In my defence, it was late. It remains deeply, deeply creepy and there was basically no reason to do it.
I'm okay with the deeply creepy part (it helps to emphasise that they're alien when they have a completely different way of looking at things), but Sisko really should have chewed them out for it. It's not like he didn't have a precedent of shouting at them.
My personal theory is that the Prophets don't really care about Bajor all that much. They care about Sisko, and via timeywimey weirdness end up caring about Bajor, after a fashion, because he cares about it and because Bajor's existence/situation/history/whathaveyou are important to get Sisko to DS9 and enter the wormhole and do all the other stuff that have him being the Emissary and other timeywimey stuff. But they don't seem overly concerned about the actual well being of Bajor and Bajorans outside of that. Some of that might be because of the timeywimey weirdness, so they don't intervene when the Dominion attempted to blow up Bajor's sun because they knew it was covered; but things like sticking the Pah-Wraiths on Bajor and their reluctance to do something about the Dominion fleet until Sisko yelled at them... I'm not saying they're malicious, but their priorities are most definitely not the sort of priorities you expect from non-baddies in Star Trek.
The bolded seems to check out if you consider the little meeting Sisko and the false Emissary had with the Prophets. The Prophets seemed to neither understand nor care about the Emissary nonsense. They said, "You are The Sisko," in a tone that to me implied, "What the fuck are you two even taking about?"
In this light when they said, "We are of Bajor," this could have been more their acknowledgement that linear and nonlinear beings are both still beings, without a proper understanding of what Bajor actually is or its place in the weird time-universe outside their realm. Basically their way of saying, "You're all weird squishy goo aliens and we don't understand each other but can still see that we are fundamentally alike."
My personal theory is that the Prophets don't really care about Bajor all that much. They care about Sisko, and via timeywimey weirdness end up caring about Bajor, after a fashion, because he cares about it and because Bajor's existence/situation/history/whathaveyou are important to get Sisko to DS9 and enter the wormhole and do all the other stuff that have him being the Emissary and other timeywimey stuff. But they don't seem overly concerned about the actual well being of Bajor and Bajorans outside of that. Some of that might be because of the timeywimey weirdness, so they don't intervene when the Dominion attempted to blow up Bajor's sun because they knew it was covered; but things like sticking the Pah-Wraiths on Bajor and their reluctance to do something about the Dominion fleet until Sisko yelled at them... I'm not saying they're malicious, but their priorities are most definitely not the sort of priorities you expect from non-baddies in Star Trek.
The bolded seems to check out if you consider the little meeting Sisko and the false Emissary had with the Prophets. The Prophets seemed to neither understand nor care about the Emissary nonsense. They said, "You are The Sisko," in a tone that to me implied, "What the fuck are you two even taking about?"
In this light when they said, "We are of Bajor," this could have been more their acknowledgement that linear and nonlinear beings are both still beings, without a proper understanding of what Bajor actually is or its place in the weird time-universe outside their realm. Basically their way of saying, "You're all weird squishy goo aliens and we don't understand each other but can still see that we are fundamentally alike."
I like the theory that the Prophets are Bajorans. Star Trek tends towards the idea that sentient species eventually become energy beings through biological or technological means. When the Prophets say "we are of Bajor," they're entirely literal. They've become so far removed from their corporeal ancestors that they no longer understand them. It's like us stumbling on the fossils of early hominids.
"Help Bajor."
"No. We don't interfere with your linear shit. Fuck Bajor.
"You interfere all the fucking time. You once said you were of Bajor."
"Damn fucking skippy we're of Bajor. That's why we're totally going to help you."
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
"Help Bajor."
"No. We don't interfere with your linear shit. Fuck Bajor.
"You interfere all the fucking time. You once said you were of Bajor."
"Damn fucking skippy we're of Bajor. That's why we're totally going to help you."
"We have come to give you warning of a terrifying invasion invasion. You must stop your carefree lives of farming and stock pile weapons, you must prepare yourselves, the Cardassian occupation is 500 years away!"
"Cardassian occupation? Like the one we had 500 years ago?"
"Yes! Exactly, that one!"
"Well that was 500 years ago! How are we supposed to prepare for something that's already happened?"
"Better late than never?"
"No! No it is not!"
"Fine then! See if we help you again!"
"Help Bajor."
"No. We don't interfere with your linear shit. Fuck Bajor.
"You interfere all the fucking time. You once said you were of Bajor."
"Damn fucking skippy we're of Bajor. That's why we're totally going to help you."
"We have come to give you warning of a terrifying invasion invasion. You must stop your carefree lives of farming and stock pile weapons, you must prepare yourselves, the Cardassian occupation is 500 years away!"
"Cardassian occupation? Like the one we had 500 years ago?"
"Yes! Exactly, that one!"
"Well that was 500 years ago! How are we supposed to prepare for something that's already happened?"
"Better late than never?"
"No! No it is not!"
"Fine then! See if we help you again!"
The Federation and Cardies alike would tremble at a Baker steered by a HoI IV player rather than the prophets.
In two different episodes Mariner was able to obtain one or more weapons while standing in an arbitrary corridor of the Cerritos. If she's not armed she's not more than one access hatch away from something.
Finished DS9. I didn't expect a full explanation of the prophets, but the prophets sure seem like bullshit.
edit: Also,
They fucking foreshadowed the Alamo for an entire season and then it doesnt even come up in the finale. I expected Julien or O'Brien to be like 'hold your britches we got this'
In two different episodes Mariner was able to obtain one or more weapons while standing in an arbitrary corridor of the Cerritos. If she's not armed she's not more than one access hatch away from something.
I figure there's a super crude way you could joke and explain this if you wanted to.
Have Boimler wish he had a phaser, and Mariner instantly whips one out to give him.
"Where were you hiding this? And why is it... moist?"
"Do you really want an answer to that question?
"...EEEWWWW."
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
DS9 notes, as I officially started my first watch through today.
Episode 1
Major Kira's shoulderpads are tight, and she's got a real cold war kids vibe
The look on Picard's face when Sisko is "I was at wolf 359!" was just "oh not this shit again..."
"I was carrying three lemonades, and the sand was burning my feet!" Seriously Sisko is every bit as much a stage presence as Picard or Riker. I like his whole deal.
COG DOORS! Fallout style
Oh... oh Bashir... Oh my... hello...
Odo huh? I guess he can't get Tasha Yarr'ed
Okay O'Brien fucking worked out between seasons when he got the gig on DS9 from TNG. He's got some dad bod energy and I'm here for it.
Oh damn! Odo with the character development. Alright I'm on board.
Honestly that was a pretty great way to explain time, like for real.
Lol O'Brien using the deflectors and then scolding the computer. Very Scotty in Trek 4
Goddamnit Hahns.... baseball
Oh that ending, that ending theme...
Alright yeah it took me twice last year to get through the first 20 minutes but I think I just needed time to get the idea of TNG out of my mind and enjoy something fresh.
Started watching the Orville. It's uncanny how much it feels like Seth McFarlan's Star Trek Adventures campaign, but with all the Star Trek serial numbers filed off.
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
My personal theory is that the Prophets don't really care about Bajor all that much. They care about Sisko, and via timeywimey weirdness end up caring about Bajor, after a fashion, because he cares about it and because Bajor's existence/situation/history/whathaveyou are important to get Sisko to DS9 and enter the wormhole and do all the other stuff that have him being the Emissary and other timeywimey stuff. But they don't seem overly concerned about the actual well being of Bajor and Bajorans outside of that. Some of that might be because of the timeywimey weirdness, so they don't intervene when the Dominion attempted to blow up Bajor's sun because they knew it was covered; but things like sticking the Pah-Wraiths on Bajor and their reluctance to do something about the Dominion fleet until Sisko yelled at them... I'm not saying they're malicious, but their priorities are most definitely not the sort of priorities you expect from non-baddies in Star Trek.
the prophets don't live in linear time. They could literally decide at the heat death of the universe to help bajor, and it could still happen "today" from the show's perspective. We don't even know if that isn't what happened. Maybe they thought about what Sisko said for 500 billion years and "then" decided to help him when he asked.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Started watching the Orville. It's uncanny how much it feels like Seth McFarlan's Star Trek Adventures campaign, but with all the Star Trek serial numbers filed off.
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
The effects only get better as the show gets more and more money. Honestly I wish I'd just binged it now instead of loving it in small spurts for six years, but alas.
My personal theory is that the Prophets don't really care about Bajor all that much. They care about Sisko, and via timeywimey weirdness end up caring about Bajor, after a fashion, because he cares about it and because Bajor's existence/situation/history/whathaveyou are important to get Sisko to DS9 and enter the wormhole and do all the other stuff that have him being the Emissary and other timeywimey stuff. But they don't seem overly concerned about the actual well being of Bajor and Bajorans outside of that. Some of that might be because of the timeywimey weirdness, so they don't intervene when the Dominion attempted to blow up Bajor's sun because they knew it was covered; but things like sticking the Pah-Wraiths on Bajor and their reluctance to do something about the Dominion fleet until Sisko yelled at them... I'm not saying they're malicious, but their priorities are most definitely not the sort of priorities you expect from non-baddies in Star Trek.
The bolded seems to check out if you consider the little meeting Sisko and the false Emissary had with the Prophets. The Prophets seemed to neither understand nor care about the Emissary nonsense. They said, "You are The Sisko," in a tone that to me implied, "What the fuck are you two even taking about?"
In this light when they said, "We are of Bajor," this could have been more their acknowledgement that linear and nonlinear beings are both still beings, without a proper understanding of what Bajor actually is or its place in the weird time-universe outside their realm. Basically their way of saying, "You're all weird squishy goo aliens and we don't understand each other but can still see that we are fundamentally alike."
Pet theory: The prophets are of bajor in that they come from the bajorans, and at some point become unaffected by linear time. They don't interfere because they don't wanna stop themselves from existing. And they interfere, because the have now "always" existed.
Started watching the Orville. It's uncanny how much it feels like Seth McFarlan's Star Trek Adventures campaign, but with all the Star Trek serial numbers filed off.
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
That's what it feels like because that's almost exactly what it is. I say almost because he has two episodes I won't spoil that are basically some nerd on the Youtubes doing a video titled, "This is what's wrong with the Prime Directive." But the rest? Great Value Brand Star Trek.
Hevach on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Started watching the Orville. It's uncanny how much it feels like Seth McFarlan's Star Trek Adventures campaign, but with all the Star Trek serial numbers filed off.
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
to be fair, it eventually stops being both a fox and a comedy
+5
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I've been working my way through Orville s3, I'm nearly at the end, and as many others have said, it's very good. Surprisingly so. It might even rival SNW for me, honestly!
The thing is, while we wandered through the desert of Trek proper having Kurtzman things done to it in the name of being ever more prestigey prestige TV, Orville was out there showing that the classic TNG/DS9 blend of episodic adventure + some serialized elements + smaller, character-focused stories could still work in the 2010s and feel fresh and relevant. With Lower Decks and SNW, Trek itself has rediscovered those virtues, so I went into this season wondering where that left the Orville.
And the answer to that is, it doubles down on those things but also goes really hard on Trek-style politics with open, direct, and even strident messages about current events. Modern Trek tries to be political too, and it succeeds when it does this stuff implicitly - like having casts with POC and queer actors/characters - but its actual political storytelling has either been kind of muted, or just a fucking mess.
You can tell I'm speaking the truth because if you listen to the chuds, they're still mad about black women and gay people and "woke haircuts." They're not mad about Picard trying to be about Brexit because they can't even remember that that show was trying to roast them; it couldn't keep "Brexit bad, isolationism bad" on its mind for two episodes before it was suddenly about incest Romulans and Mass Effect 3.
SNW, by contrast, was very much not a mess (and God bless it for that) but it was content, in its first season, to mostly be about having fun adventures with its insanely charismatic cast. The stories had ethical and philosophical themes but fairly timeless ones, with characters musing about what the right thing to do in a situation was. It mostly didn't take big current events-y swings except for the very mild one of showing Jan 6 footage while Pike talked about what a mess Earth was in the 21st century.
But Orville s3 is out here like, "hey here's a direct analog to Donald Trump; remember how much shit that guy sucks? Here are some transphobes and now we're going to beat the fuck out of them. Here are our characters reacting with horror to the actual 21st-century America you live in." It's really nice! it was the final piece of the Star Trek puzzle, and with that piece in place, the season takes its place among Trek's best runs, like TOS season 1-2, TNG seasons 3-5, and DS9 4-7. The fact that it's not actually a Star Trek show is entirely incidental.
But it's also carving out an identity of its own. The forced jokey-jokes of the show's first season ("that star's corona is hotter than Rihanna's last single! lmao!") are gone, but what's left is this sense that the characters are pop-culture literate in a way that almost no Star Trek characters have ever been. Orville characters still quote The Tempest and the poetry of William Carlos Williams or whatever, but they also say things like "are we really supposed to go into the spooky haunted house?" They act like people who've seen a movie in their lives.
The music is also much more in-your-face than anything in Trek since Ron Jones left. That's become rare not just in Trek but in lots of shows and movies now, where the score is either diagetic (coming from something within the scene, like a radio), or minimalist background noise, or non-existent. Orville this season is constantly busting out bold, brassy themes that feel like they could be out of Star Wars.
And speaking of Star Wars, the increased budget has in part been used to stage a lot of aerial chases and hovercar chases and space dogfights, which mostly work well and look cool and give some adrenaline without getting in the way of, or taking over, the story. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
It was great. Of course Shax knew Kira. And of course Mariner served in the Dominion War which actually explains a lot with PTSD and such. Loved having Kira and Quark back. And the bit with Boiler talking about not using money was great.
Started watching the Orville. It's uncanny how much it feels like Seth McFarlan's Star Trek Adventures campaign, but with all the Star Trek serial numbers filed off.
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
Worth noting that comedy element was Fox C-Suite meddling - from what I understand MacFarlane only got the show greenlit if he agreed to make it Ha Ha Family Guy Man Make Funny Space Comedy - so you're gonna get that kind of humor. If you're fine with it you should have no problem, but if you don't I'd say it's still worth sticking it out. Once they switched to Hulu for season 3 the whole show drastically changed formatting - but in a very good way, so I'd say look forward to it.
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WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
New Lower Decks episode question
Is Jenny's hilariously sociopathic/bloodthirsty behavior typical of Andorians, or is it just her? Nice to see her develop into something more than a ex-Red Shirt / Mariner's hot Andorian girlfriend (unless it's un-Andorian-like, then it becomes weird but funny)
Like, look at her clapping with glee at the sight of her friends getting phaser'd into unconsciousness! (Tho they kinda deserved it)
Is Jenny's hilariously sociopathic/bloodthirsty behavior typical of Andorians, or is it just her? Nice to see her develop into something more than a ex-Red Shirt / Mariner's hot Andorian girlfriend (unless it's un-Andorian-like, then it becomes weird but funny)
Like, look at her clapping with glee at the sight of her friends getting phaser'd into unconsciousness! (Tho they kinda deserved it)
She’s just excited her girlfriend is getting to be her best self!
I love Tendie. That whole "I was a horrible evil bad ass but would much rather just quietly science the shit out of things" is great.
Regarding Tendi
I like that she's ashamed of the pirate stuff mostly because it's wrong but there's also this underlying racism in Federation space that even some of her friends have showcased. And being mixed ethnicity that's a very real feeling
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
+5
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Lost CanuckWorld's Greatest Escape ArtistDoctor Vundabar's Murder MachineRegistered Userregular
Regarding the voice of one of the guest stars in yesterday's Lower Decks, I think this tweet from the actor explains some of it:
John, yes. I had to wear the teeth. The voice isn't quark without them.
Armin Shimerman said he wore his old Quark false teeth to record his dialogue.
Nintendo Switch friend code: SW-4012-4821-3053
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Tendi feels like that person you work with who is kind of unassuming during office hours and then you go hang out with them on the weekend and find out they do triathlons and iron man competitions in their spare time.
Tendi's line in season 1, "And for your information, many Orions haven't been pirates for over FIVE years!" is still one of my favorite line deliveries in the whole show.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I've been working my way through Orville s3, I'm nearly at the end, and as many others have said, it's very good. Surprisingly so. It might even rival SNW for me, honestly!
The thing is, while we wandered through the desert of Trek proper having Kurtzman things done to it in the name of being ever more prestigey prestige TV, Orville was out there showing that the classic TNG/DS9 blend of episodic adventure + some serialized elements + smaller, character-focused stories could still work in the 2010s and feel fresh and relevant. With Lower Decks and SNW, Trek itself has rediscovered those virtues, so I went into this season wondering where that left the Orville.
And the answer to that is, it doubles down on those things but also goes really hard on Trek-style politics with open, direct, and even strident messages about current events. Modern Trek tries to be political too, and it succeeds when it does this stuff implicitly - like having casts with POC and queer actors/characters - but its actual political storytelling has either been kind of muted, or just a fucking mess.
You can tell I'm speaking the truth because if you listen to the chuds, they're still mad about black women and gay people and "woke haircuts." They're not mad about Picard trying to be about Brexit because they can't even remember that that show was trying to roast them; it couldn't keep "Brexit bad, isolationism bad" on its mind for two episodes before it was suddenly about incest Romulans and Mass Effect 3.
SNW, by contrast, was very much not a mess (and God bless it for that) but it was content, in its first season, to mostly be about having fun adventures with its insanely charismatic cast. The stories had ethical and philosophical themes but fairly timeless ones, with characters musing about what the right thing to do in a situation was. It mostly didn't take big current events-y swings except for the very mild one of showing Jan 6 footage while Pike talked about what a mess Earth was in the 21st century.
But Orville s3 is out here like, "hey here's a direct analog to Donald Trump; remember how much shit that guy sucks? Here are some transphobes and now we're going to beat the fuck out of them. Here are our characters reacting with horror to the actual 21st-century America you live in." It's really nice! it was the final piece of the Star Trek puzzle, and with that piece in place, the season takes its place among Trek's best runs, like TOS season 1-2, TNG seasons 3-5, and DS9 4-7. The fact that it's not actually a Star Trek show is entirely incidental.
But it's also carving out an identity of its own. The forced jokey-jokes of the show's first season ("that star's corona is hotter than Rihanna's last single! lmao!") are gone, but what's left is this sense that the characters are pop-culture literate in a way that almost no Star Trek characters have ever been. Orville characters still quote The Tempest and the poetry of William Carlos Williams or whatever, but they also say things like "are we really supposed to go into the spooky haunted house?" They act like people who've seen a movie in their lives.
The music is also much more in-your-face than anything in Trek since Ron Jones left. That's become rare not just in Trek but in lots of shows and movies now, where the score is either diagetic (coming from something within the scene, like a radio), or minimalist background noise, or non-existent. Orville this season is constantly busting out bold, brassy themes that feel like they could be out of Star Wars.
And speaking of Star Wars, the increased budget has in part been used to stage a lot of aerial chases and hovercar chases and space dogfights, which mostly work well and look cool and give some adrenaline without getting in the way of, or taking over, the story. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
The worst thing about The Orville Season 3 is knowing that that's probably the show we could have gotten for the first two seasons if Fox wasn't around to tell Seth no
Posts
Also,
I remember talking to Kenyan colleague who actually found the movie extremely offensive. When I asked why, he simply said, "A hyper-advanced African nation that still uses spears? With thatched-roof skyscrapers? Are you fucking kidding me?! There were reports of similar reactions in Asia to Crazy Rich Asians, a film lauded by Asian Americans as a milestone but viewed in Asia proper - where nations have had their own film industries for decades - as just shallow and uninspired. Many Singaporean and Chinese critics were quick to point out that for all its noise about celebrating Asians inclusiveness, so many of its characters were reduced to just decades-old caricatures frozen in time (the heartless mother that cares more about the family name than individual happiness, the cheating husband who takes his wife for granted while feeling inadequate, the gaudy affluent with their hideous taste, etc). All while ignoring the more nuanced aspects of Singaporean society, like how multicultural and multiracial it actually is (Indian-Singaporeans are all but absent in the movie).
American communities seem to be much more forgiving if not outright ecstatic about seeing their nations of origin depicted in exaggerated terms that delineate clear and distinct group identities, but there definitely can be something off-putting and even dehumanizing about Hollywood's embrace of cultural and racial stereotypes in the name of trying to be more inclusive, something that often gets lost on "melting pot" Americans but become much more pronounced when viewed by the actual people whose cultures are supposedly being represented.
You’re right, I meant Sarah Sisko! In my defence, it was late. It remains deeply, deeply creepy and there was basically no reason to do it.
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The bolded seems to check out if you consider the little meeting Sisko and the false Emissary had with the Prophets. The Prophets seemed to neither understand nor care about the Emissary nonsense. They said, "You are The Sisko," in a tone that to me implied, "What the fuck are you two even taking about?"
In this light when they said, "We are of Bajor," this could have been more their acknowledgement that linear and nonlinear beings are both still beings, without a proper understanding of what Bajor actually is or its place in the weird time-universe outside their realm. Basically their way of saying, "You're all weird squishy goo aliens and we don't understand each other but can still see that we are fundamentally alike."
I like the theory that the Prophets are Bajorans. Star Trek tends towards the idea that sentient species eventually become energy beings through biological or technological means. When the Prophets say "we are of Bajor," they're entirely literal. They've become so far removed from their corporeal ancestors that they no longer understand them. It's like us stumbling on the fossils of early hominids.
"No. We don't interfere with your linear shit. Fuck Bajor.
"You interfere all the fucking time. You once said you were of Bajor."
"Damn fucking skippy we're of Bajor. That's why we're totally going to help you."
"We have come to give you warning of a terrifying invasion invasion. You must stop your carefree lives of farming and stock pile weapons, you must prepare yourselves, the Cardassian occupation is 500 years away!"
"Cardassian occupation? Like the one we had 500 years ago?"
"Yes! Exactly, that one!"
"Well that was 500 years ago! How are we supposed to prepare for something that's already happened?"
"Better late than never?"
"No! No it is not!"
"Fine then! See if we help you again!"
Also, Mariner went to the salon armed?
and they included the hazy fog that pervades the promenade
The Federation and Cardies alike would tremble at a Baker steered by a HoI IV player rather than the prophets.
edit: Also,
I figure there's a super crude way you could joke and explain this if you wanted to.
"Where were you hiding this? And why is it... moist?"
"Do you really want an answer to that question?
"...EEEWWWW."
Episode 1
The look on Picard's face when Sisko is "I was at wolf 359!" was just "oh not this shit again..."
"I was carrying three lemonades, and the sand was burning my feet!" Seriously Sisko is every bit as much a stage presence as Picard or Riker. I like his whole deal.
COG DOORS! Fallout style
Oh... oh Bashir... Oh my... hello...
Odo huh? I guess he can't get Tasha Yarr'ed
Okay O'Brien fucking worked out between seasons when he got the gig on DS9 from TNG. He's got some dad bod energy and I'm here for it.
Oh damn! Odo with the character development. Alright I'm on board.
Honestly that was a pretty great way to explain time, like for real.
Lol O'Brien using the deflectors and then scolding the computer. Very Scotty in Trek 4
Goddamnit Hahns.... baseball
Oh that ending, that ending theme...
Alright yeah it took me twice last year to get through the first 20 minutes but I think I just needed time to get the idea of TNG out of my mind and enjoy something fresh.
I'm in. Episode 2 next
Pretty decent so far, and they really didn't cut corners on the special effects, which for a fox comedy show I'm impressed.
The effects only get better as the show gets more and more money. Honestly I wish I'd just binged it now instead of loving it in small spurts for six years, but alas.
Pet theory: The prophets are of bajor in that they come from the bajorans, and at some point become unaffected by linear time. They don't interfere because they don't wanna stop themselves from existing. And they interfere, because the have now "always" existed.
That's what it feels like because that's almost exactly what it is. I say almost because he has two episodes I won't spoil that are basically some nerd on the Youtubes doing a video titled, "This is what's wrong with the Prime Directive." But the rest? Great Value Brand Star Trek.
to be fair, it eventually stops being both a fox and a comedy
The thing is, while we wandered through the desert of Trek proper having Kurtzman things done to it in the name of being ever more prestigey prestige TV, Orville was out there showing that the classic TNG/DS9 blend of episodic adventure + some serialized elements + smaller, character-focused stories could still work in the 2010s and feel fresh and relevant. With Lower Decks and SNW, Trek itself has rediscovered those virtues, so I went into this season wondering where that left the Orville.
And the answer to that is, it doubles down on those things but also goes really hard on Trek-style politics with open, direct, and even strident messages about current events. Modern Trek tries to be political too, and it succeeds when it does this stuff implicitly - like having casts with POC and queer actors/characters - but its actual political storytelling has either been kind of muted, or just a fucking mess.
You can tell I'm speaking the truth because if you listen to the chuds, they're still mad about black women and gay people and "woke haircuts." They're not mad about Picard trying to be about Brexit because they can't even remember that that show was trying to roast them; it couldn't keep "Brexit bad, isolationism bad" on its mind for two episodes before it was suddenly about incest Romulans and Mass Effect 3.
SNW, by contrast, was very much not a mess (and God bless it for that) but it was content, in its first season, to mostly be about having fun adventures with its insanely charismatic cast. The stories had ethical and philosophical themes but fairly timeless ones, with characters musing about what the right thing to do in a situation was. It mostly didn't take big current events-y swings except for the very mild one of showing Jan 6 footage while Pike talked about what a mess Earth was in the 21st century.
But Orville s3 is out here like, "hey here's a direct analog to Donald Trump; remember how much shit that guy sucks? Here are some transphobes and now we're going to beat the fuck out of them. Here are our characters reacting with horror to the actual 21st-century America you live in." It's really nice! it was the final piece of the Star Trek puzzle, and with that piece in place, the season takes its place among Trek's best runs, like TOS season 1-2, TNG seasons 3-5, and DS9 4-7. The fact that it's not actually a Star Trek show is entirely incidental.
But it's also carving out an identity of its own. The forced jokey-jokes of the show's first season ("that star's corona is hotter than Rihanna's last single! lmao!") are gone, but what's left is this sense that the characters are pop-culture literate in a way that almost no Star Trek characters have ever been. Orville characters still quote The Tempest and the poetry of William Carlos Williams or whatever, but they also say things like "are we really supposed to go into the spooky haunted house?" They act like people who've seen a movie in their lives.
The music is also much more in-your-face than anything in Trek since Ron Jones left. That's become rare not just in Trek but in lots of shows and movies now, where the score is either diagetic (coming from something within the scene, like a radio), or minimalist background noise, or non-existent. Orville this season is constantly busting out bold, brassy themes that feel like they could be out of Star Wars.
And speaking of Star Wars, the increased budget has in part been used to stage a lot of aerial chases and hovercar chases and space dogfights, which mostly work well and look cool and give some adrenaline without getting in the way of, or taking over, the story. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Also loved pirate Tendi.
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Worth noting that comedy element was Fox C-Suite meddling - from what I understand MacFarlane only got the show greenlit if he agreed to make it Ha Ha Family Guy Man Make Funny Space Comedy - so you're gonna get that kind of humor. If you're fine with it you should have no problem, but if you don't I'd say it's still worth sticking it out. Once they switched to Hulu for season 3 the whole show drastically changed formatting - but in a very good way, so I'd say look forward to it.
Like, look at her clapping with glee at the sight of her friends getting phaser'd into unconsciousness! (Tho they kinda deserved it)
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*inhales*
HolyshitholyshithyshitholyshjtholshitholyshitholyshtholyshitholyshitholyshitholyshitHolyshitholyshithyshitholyshjtholshitholyshitholyshtholyshitholyshitholyshitholyshitHolyshitholyshithyshitholyshjtholshitholyshitholyshtholyshitholyshitholyshitholyshit
Also Morn talked too much.
And also the further implication that no, really, Tendi is an absolute unmitigated bad ass is good
Regarding Tendi
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The worst thing about The Orville Season 3 is knowing that that's probably the show we could have gotten for the first two seasons if Fox wasn't around to tell Seth no