After the cold open when the Lower Decks opening started I just turned to my husband looking confused going "Why are they doing this a second time? The opening to the show already played."
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
After the cold open when the Lower Decks opening started I just turned to my husband looking confused going "Why are they doing this a second time? The opening to the show already played."
Oh you guys are talking about the pylon circling (which I believe had the original theme, not the crappy sped up one)
I thought you were talking about the very first opening with the Star Trek logo in it and the nebula with
I've been working my way through Orville s3, I'm nearly at the end, and as many others have said, it's very good. Surprisingly so. It might even rival SNW for me, honestly!
The thing is, while we wandered through the desert of Trek proper having Kurtzman things done to it in the name of being ever more prestigey prestige TV, Orville was out there showing that the classic TNG/DS9 blend of episodic adventure + some serialized elements + smaller, character-focused stories could still work in the 2010s and feel fresh and relevant. With Lower Decks and SNW, Trek itself has rediscovered those virtues, so I went into this season wondering where that left the Orville.
And the answer to that is, it doubles down on those things but also goes really hard on Trek-style politics with open, direct, and even strident messages about current events. Modern Trek tries to be political too, and it succeeds when it does this stuff implicitly - like having casts with POC and queer actors/characters - but its actual political storytelling has either been kind of muted, or just a fucking mess.
You can tell I'm speaking the truth because if you listen to the chuds, they're still mad about black women and gay people and "woke haircuts." They're not mad about Picard trying to be about Brexit because they can't even remember that that show was trying to roast them; it couldn't keep "Brexit bad, isolationism bad" on its mind for two episodes before it was suddenly about incest Romulans and Mass Effect 3.
SNW, by contrast, was very much not a mess (and God bless it for that) but it was content, in its first season, to mostly be about having fun adventures with its insanely charismatic cast. The stories had ethical and philosophical themes but fairly timeless ones, with characters musing about what the right thing to do in a situation was. It mostly didn't take big current events-y swings except for the very mild one of showing Jan 6 footage while Pike talked about what a mess Earth was in the 21st century.
But Orville s3 is out here like, "hey here's a direct analog to Donald Trump; remember how much shit that guy sucks? Here are some transphobes and now we're going to beat the fuck out of them. Here are our characters reacting with horror to the actual 21st-century America you live in." It's really nice! it was the final piece of the Star Trek puzzle, and with that piece in place, the season takes its place among Trek's best runs, like TOS season 1-2, TNG seasons 3-5, and DS9 4-7. The fact that it's not actually a Star Trek show is entirely incidental.
But it's also carving out an identity of its own. The forced jokey-jokes of the show's first season ("that star's corona is hotter than Rihanna's last single! lmao!") are gone, but what's left is this sense that the characters are pop-culture literate in a way that almost no Star Trek characters have ever been. Orville characters still quote The Tempest and the poetry of William Carlos Williams or whatever, but they also say things like "are we really supposed to go into the spooky haunted house?" They act like people who've seen a movie in their lives.
The music is also much more in-your-face than anything in Trek since Ron Jones left. That's become rare not just in Trek but in lots of shows and movies now, where the score is either diagetic (coming from something within the scene, like a radio), or minimalist background noise, or non-existent. Orville this season is constantly busting out bold, brassy themes that feel like they could be out of Star Wars.
And speaking of Star Wars, the increased budget has in part been used to stage a lot of aerial chases and hovercar chases and space dogfights, which mostly work well and look cool and give some adrenaline without getting in the way of, or taking over, the story. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
The worst thing about The Orville Season 3 is knowing that that's probably the show we could have gotten for the first two seasons if Fox wasn't around to tell Seth no
also that Seth wanted to do actual star trek, but was told no, so had to make his own.
After that showing in orville, I could imagine him running a decent TNG style show, modernized.
John, yes. I had to wear the teeth. The voice isn't quark without them.
Armin Shimerman said he wore his old Quark false teeth to record his dialogue.
Does... does he just carry them around with him?
if I ever got to play a Ferengi I sure would.
Someone would come up and be like "hey didn't you play a Ferengi on tv"
And I'd be "nah, you got me confused with someone else" then I'd quickly turn around, put the teeth in "but I did!"
John, yes. I had to wear the teeth. The voice isn't quark without them.
Armin Shimerman said he wore his old Quark false teeth to record his dialogue.
Does... does he just carry them around with him?
if I ever got to play a Ferengi I sure would.
Someone would come up and be like "hey didn't you play a Ferengi on tv"
And I'd be "nah, you got me confused with someone else" then I'd quickly turn around, put the teeth in "but I did!"
The thing is even without prosthetics you can tell he's Quark.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
After the cold open when the Lower Decks opening started I just turned to my husband looking confused going "Why are they doing this a second time? The opening to the show already played."
Oh you guys are talking about the pylon circling (which I believe had the original theme, not the crappy sped up one)
I thought you were talking about the very first opening with the Star Trek logo in it and the nebula with
I knew once we met Mesk it was a countdown until the Mistress of the Winter Constellations made herself known, but I didn't think he'd basically be Worf's tropes by way of Orion.
Bold Boimler is going to get seriously injured/killed at the climax of this season, isn't he?
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I have watched all of Lower Decks except the latest episode, and am catching up on Discovery. I'm about 4 or 5 eps into season 2. And I am loving it so far. I just hate having to watch commercials (T-Mobile is giving me the lowest tier of Paramount+ for free for one year.) I knew the show introduced Captain Pike and crew but I am super excited that he appeared really early in Season 2.
I knew once we met Mesk it was a countdown until the Mistress of the Winter Constellations made herself known, but I didn't think he'd basically be Worf's tropes by way of Orion.
Bold Boimler is going to get seriously injured/killed at the climax of this season, isn't he?
Yeah, I expected Tendi MotWC to just curbstomp a bully when he pushed her too far, not that the guy was literally a poser.
As for Boimler, I kinda hope he gets killed. But only if he gets Shax'd. And then having to come to terms, not with his death (as we kinda saw Shax dealing with), but that he's been deemed one of the "indispensable ones". Would fit into the whole Rutherford arc too. Mariner is probably already there. Have some philosophical (but comedic) reflection about inevitability/fate/destiny.
I knew once we met Mesk it was a countdown until the Mistress of the Winter Constellations made herself known, but I didn't think he'd basically be Worf's tropes by way of Orion.
Bold Boimler is going to get seriously injured/killed at the climax of this season, isn't he?
Yeah, I expected Tendi MotWC to just curbstomp a bully when he pushed her too far, not that the guy was literally a poser.
As for Boimler, I kinda hope he gets killed. But only if he gets Shax'd. And then having to come to terms, not with his death (as we kinda saw Shax dealing with), but that he's been deemed one of the "indispensable ones". Would fit into the whole Rutherford arc too. Mariner is probably already there. Have some philosophical (but comedic) reflection about inevitability/fate/destiny.
Re: Boimler
I think he's going to be headed for a Picard-with-the-Nausicaan moment, a brash, bold young ensign taking risks finally realizing that hey, maybe being a BIT careful is called for. Boldness has its place, but so does careful consideration and preparation.
Is technically the OTHER Bold Boimler. William Boimler on the Titan already had that same life change, finding himself and the success he'd been licking boots for all along in bold and impulsive action, and is about a year ahead of Bradward Boimler on that track.
My prediction is THAT Boimler is going to die, and at the funeral Riker is going to extoll his boldness (probably even calling him Bold Boimler) in a way that's going to make it very obvious that's why he died.
Hevach on
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited October 2022
I picked a great fucking week to start DS9 for the first time, because now ALL of this shit is canon.
DS9 episode 2 was great, fucking adorable, sweet summer child Bashir. Kira was a badass, and I really like Garak, the simple tailor. (or was it tinkerer?)
DS9 episode 2 was great, fucking adorable, sweet summer child Bashir. Kira was a badass, and I really like Garak, the simple tailor. (or was it tinkerer?)
He's a gardener. I met him on Romulus.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I picked a great fucking week to start DS9 for the first time, because now ALL of this shit is canon.
DS9 episode 2 was great, fucking adorable, sweet summer child Bashir. Kira was a badass, and I really like Garak, the simple tailor. (or was it tinkerer?)
Also Odo was like Justified cool...
"I'm the one giving you the choice..."
One problem with the entire episode:
How. Is. There. A. Rat. On. A. Space. Station?
Rates (and bugs) get everywhere. They probably come in with the cargo from planet side and you know there are probably plenty of sensor dead zones on that station to hide.
I picked a great fucking week to start DS9 for the first time, because now ALL of this shit is canon.
DS9 episode 2 was great, fucking adorable, sweet summer child Bashir. Kira was a badass, and I really like Garak, the simple tailor. (or was it tinkerer?)
Also Odo was like Justified cool...
"I'm the one giving you the choice..."
One problem with the entire episode:
How. Is. There. A. Rat. On. A. Space. Station?
Rates (and bugs) get everywhere. They probably come in with the cargo from planet side and you know there are probably plenty of sensor dead zones on that station to hide.
The ISS has had multiple infestations, and it doesn't have civilian traffic bringing in private belongings without thorough search.
Most notably bed bugs made it up in 2018, likely on an ESA clothing delivery (they were genetically identified as originating in France). There was also a small termite colony in some packing material launched in one of the International Segment modules, and a variety of test subjects have gotten out and survived for some amount of time before being eliminated.
Everything that goes to the space station is inspected and stuff still made it, thanks to those controls never in high enough numbers to create a persistent problem but it still takes constant vigilance on the ground and in orbit to keep it that way. I promise a station with gravity and civilian foot traffic subject to things like "inalienable sentient rights" will have way worse.
Hevach on
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
It's only because of handwavy star trek super tech that people aren't succumbing to parasitic infections constantly.
If I remember right there wasn't a rat on the space station, Odo just picked a form that could sneak around in the corners (and just shrinking down to Ant-Man Odo would have looked silly).
Or in the case of Cardassian Voles, the Cardiassians probably left them there on purpose to annoy Starfleet.
Quark actually breeds Cardassian voles. He gets discounts on yamok sauce and kanar by beaming one to three voles (alive or dead, works either way) into each crate as the freighter docks. During inspection he "discovers" a vole in the crate he checks, and makes a big show of randomly opening crates and finding voles in all of them. "What kind of operation are you running here? Because it sure LOOKS like an operation that gives me thirty percent off sign here... And here... Initial... thumb print... and thank you for your business."
He also got a great deal on vole cages, which is why they keep getting out and infesting the station.
Quark actually breeds Cardassian voles. He gets discounts on yamok sauce and kanar by beaming one to three voles (alive or dead, works either way) into each crate as the freighter docks. During inspection he "discovers" a vole in the crate he checks, and makes a big show of randomly opening crates and finding voles in all of them. "What kind of operation are you running here? Because it sure LOOKS like an operation that gives me thirty percent off sign here... And here... Initial... thumb print... and thank you for your business."
He also got a great deal on vole cages, which is why they keep getting out and infesting the station.
Ah yes a variation on the 'waiter I found a hair in my soup' discount. Oddly common practice on Farenginar regardless of the fact that the species has no hair.
Is technically the OTHER Bold Boimler. William Boimler on the Titan already had that same life change, finding himself and the success he'd been licking boots for all along in bold and impulsive action, and is about a year ahead of Bradward Boimler on that track.
My prediction is THAT Boimler is going to die, and at the funeral Riker is going to extoll his boldness (probably even calling him Bold Boimler) in a way that's going to make it very obvious that's why he died.
That would be hysterical. Fingers crossed.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
My biggest hope for the future in an AI generated world is that these old Trek Shows will magically have widescreen in a decade, just filled in like a Lucas remake.
are YOU on the beer list?
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
My biggest hope for the future in an AI generated world is that these old Trek Shows will magically have widescreen in a decade, just filled in like a Lucas remake.
Fun fact. TNG was filmed wide screen, but framed for 4:3 televisions. The raw footage would show parts of the set and lights, microphones etc off to the sides.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited October 2022
DS9 S1E3
Odo sure has a whole bit planned about relationships for a puddle of goo that's never been in one.
Dax's whole interaction with Sisko "I suggest you get comfortable with your discomfort... time will take care of the rest"
That was a cool line. It's sad they go so out of their way to make aliens caricatures of human races throughout trek (and a lot of sci-fi), because the actual values of acceptance and strength through unity and diversity are so powerful in some episodes.
Odo sure has a whole bit planned about relationships for a puddle of goo that's never been in one.
Dax's whole interaction with Sisko "I suggest you get comfortable with your discomfort... time will take care of the rest"
That was a cool line. It's sad they go so out of their way to make aliens caricatures of human races throughout trek (and a lot of sci-fi), because the actual values of acceptance and strength through unity and diversity are so powerful in some episodes.
I thought that was the point? That by making them "alien", you can encourage unity/diversity, without it being quite so confrontational.
While I get the desire to just go "Fuck it, accept it", the reality is that doesn't do much to convince people. People are much more likely to be convinced if they're eased into it.
Not everyone. A small number of people are going to be bigoted regardless. And that Trumpism is pushing bigotry as a virtue has moved shit backwards. But there's still significant national majorities for gay rights that weren't that way just a couple decades ago.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
"Killing your own clone is still murder!"
book em Odo
are YOU on the beer list?
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Episode 4: Babel
I love the science fiction based approach to a typically eldrich horror inspired kind of virus. Also I know it was the 90s but Keiko being all "I am a fucking botanist!" and O'Brien being all "well plant some shit in the promenade, or become a schoolmarm" was kinda shitty. Like I bet she's a really good fucking botanist.
are YOU on the beer list?
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
There are zero romantic relationships on DS9 that aren't overflowing with drama. The O'Briens get it with both barrels as the only married couple on the show
I love the science fiction based approach to a typically eldrich horror inspired kind of virus. Also I know it was the 90s but Keiko being all "I am a fucking botanist!" and O'Brien being all "well plant some shit in the promenade, or become a schoolmarm" was kinda shitty. Like I bet she's a really good fucking botanist.
In good news, we do hear more about Keiko’s botany exploits later on.
While a lot of the time Keiko kinda sucks because she exists to be a foil for O'Brien so complains 90% of the scenes we see her in I do genuinely like her character.
She's going through the same thing as Sisko: Fuck this assignment but has no positive way to power through it easily. Almost all her character beats stem from trying to keep professional pride in a situation where botanist isn't a useful job.
While a lot of the time Keiko kinda sucks because she exists to be a foil for O'Brien so complains 90% of the scenes we see her in I do genuinely like her character.
She's going through the same thing as Sisko: Fuck this assignment but has no positive way to power through it easily. Almost all her character beats stem from trying to keep professional pride in a situation where botanist isn't a useful job.
It seems a shame that she never has a long talk with Garak.
I bet they could share all sorts of fascinating botany stories.
Posts
After the cold open when the Lower Decks opening started I just turned to my husband looking confused going "Why are they doing this a second time? The opening to the show already played."
Oh you guys are talking about the pylon circling (which I believe had the original theme, not the crappy sped up one)
I thought you were talking about the very first opening with the Star Trek logo in it and the nebula with
also that Seth wanted to do actual star trek, but was told no, so had to make his own.
After that showing in orville, I could imagine him running a decent TNG style show, modernized.
Does... does he just carry them around with him?
Someone would come up and be like "hey didn't you play a Ferengi on tv"
And I'd be "nah, you got me confused with someone else" then I'd quickly turn around, put the teeth in "but I did!"
The thing is even without prosthetics you can tell he's Quark.
HOLYSHIT
Bold Boimler is going to get seriously injured/killed at the climax of this season, isn't he?
As for Boimler, I kinda hope he gets killed. But only if he gets Shax'd. And then having to come to terms, not with his death (as we kinda saw Shax dealing with), but that he's been deemed one of the "indispensable ones". Would fit into the whole Rutherford arc too. Mariner is probably already there. Have some philosophical (but comedic) reflection about inevitability/fate/destiny.
Re: Boimler
My prediction is THAT Boimler is going to die, and at the funeral Riker is going to extoll his boldness (probably even calling him Bold Boimler) in a way that's going to make it very obvious that's why he died.
DS9 episode 2 was great, fucking adorable, sweet summer child Bashir. Kira was a badass, and I really like Garak, the simple tailor. (or was it tinkerer?)
Also Odo was like Justified cool...
"I'm the one giving you the choice..."
One problem with the entire episode:
How. Is. There. A. Rat. On. A. Space. Station?
Rates (and bugs) get everywhere. They probably come in with the cargo from planet side and you know there are probably plenty of sensor dead zones on that station to hide.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
The ISS has had multiple infestations, and it doesn't have civilian traffic bringing in private belongings without thorough search.
Most notably bed bugs made it up in 2018, likely on an ESA clothing delivery (they were genetically identified as originating in France). There was also a small termite colony in some packing material launched in one of the International Segment modules, and a variety of test subjects have gotten out and survived for some amount of time before being eliminated.
Everything that goes to the space station is inspected and stuff still made it, thanks to those controls never in high enough numbers to create a persistent problem but it still takes constant vigilance on the ground and in orbit to keep it that way. I promise a station with gravity and civilian foot traffic subject to things like "inalienable sentient rights" will have way worse.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Or in the case of Cardassian Voles, the Cardiassians probably left them there on purpose to annoy Starfleet.
He also got a great deal on vole cages, which is why they keep getting out and infesting the station.
Ah yes a variation on the 'waiter I found a hair in my soup' discount. Oddly common practice on Farenginar regardless of the fact that the species has no hair.
"Excuse me young Hew-Mon, did I just hear you say I have no hair? Perhaps I misheard through my glorious mane."
That would be hysterical. Fingers crossed.
Fun fact. TNG was filmed wide screen, but framed for 4:3 televisions. The raw footage would show parts of the set and lights, microphones etc off to the sides.
Dax's whole interaction with Sisko "I suggest you get comfortable with your discomfort... time will take care of the rest"
That was a cool line. It's sad they go so out of their way to make aliens caricatures of human races throughout trek (and a lot of sci-fi), because the actual values of acceptance and strength through unity and diversity are so powerful in some episodes.
While I get the desire to just go "Fuck it, accept it", the reality is that doesn't do much to convince people. People are much more likely to be convinced if they're eased into it.
Not everyone. A small number of people are going to be bigoted regardless. And that Trumpism is pushing bigotry as a virtue has moved shit backwards. But there's still significant national majorities for gay rights that weren't that way just a couple decades ago.
book em Odo
In good news, we do hear more about Keiko’s botany exploits later on.
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She's going through the same thing as Sisko: Fuck this assignment but has no positive way to power through it easily. Almost all her character beats stem from trying to keep professional pride in a situation where botanist isn't a useful job.
It seems a shame that she never has a long talk with Garak.
I bet they could share all sorts of fascinating botany stories.
O'Brien is just pulling a "I work 140 space hours a day to put free food on this table!" so far this season, but I get it, he inherited a fixer upper