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[XCOM]: Tactical Breach Wizards: Defenestration
Dracomicron
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Last thread hit 105 pages. You want the history of XCOM? Check the last thread's OP. It's pretty good!
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/212590/xcom-xcom-2-5-is-xcops/p1
You want to join me in the [grim darkness of the far] future, where there might or might not only be war, stay here.
This is the XCOM thread, but since the Military Turn-Based Tactics genre isn't huge, I think it's pretty safe to lump in Phoenix Point, Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters, etc.
I'VE NEVER X'D A COM. WHAT GIVES?
XCOM is a franchise that started decades ago by a guy named Julian Gollop, but was revived in 2012 by Firaxis Games and Jake Solomon. Seriously go check the other thread.
Basically you run a covert paramilitary organization dedicated to defending humanity against extraterrestrials. ET go home in a body bag. Your guys go home in body bags, too. XCOM, when played in its purest form, is the game where you name squadmates after your family and friends, then watch as they are horribly slaughtered by xenos. Ironman mode, with permanent death and only one save, is one way that people prefer to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQutCE7dy84
RIGHT, CAN'T FORGET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU_QI61YI5g
(RIP DMX)
Later installments such as XCOM 2 and Chimera Squad aren't quite so xenophobic, with humans learning to live first with human-alien hybrids and then just going in to the office and hitting on the Snek Lady in the next cubicle.
WHAT IF I WANT A MORE AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE, LIKE XENONAUTS?
Some fans of the 90s X-COM games decided that the Firaxis games weren't as granular and obtuse as the originals and decided to make you stick your dick in a food processor. I dunno, some folks like Xenonauts. I couldn't get through a whole game (except the times I lost).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJ0rZZIpnE
Anyway there's a sequel coming to Steam soonish.
WHAT IF I WANTED AN EVEN MORE AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE FROM JULIAN GOLLOP, LIKE PHOENIX POINT?
The original creator, Julian Gollop, got back into the game with Phoenix Point, which is ambitious, crunchy, and occasionally very frustrating. It's gotten constant updates and DLC since it came out in 2019, and while the original bugs are all gone, there are always new ones since they keep adding stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShH1BNvzVc
I like the game, but milage definitely varies.
ENOUGH OF THIS HERESY, SHOW ME THE DARK FUTURE WHERE THERE IS ONLY WAR!
While there are plenty of tacical turn-based games about Warhammer 40K, most of them are, well, kinda janky. Not so with the lavishly titled Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters. This just came out last week, and I know it is going to eat a lot of my time.
Essentially you play a group of Grey Knights co-opted by an Inquisitor to root out Grandfather Nurgle's corruption. Every one of your soldiers is a psyker badass holy soldier of the Emperor of Mankind. I've only played about 10 hours, and this shit is HARD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyaJj2s37js
Let the purifying kicksmash purge all doors of evil.
Anyway, that's what's fresh in my mind at the moment. Feel free to talk about other turn-based tactical games with randomized squads here, too. Maybe Mario vs. Rabbids and other games with pre-established squad members that use XCOM-like mechanics, but probably not as much pure RPGs (but, like, do what you want, I'm not the XCOM police).
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/212590/xcom-xcom-2-5-is-xcops/p1
You want to join me in the [grim darkness of the far] future, where there might or might not only be war, stay here.
This is the XCOM thread, but since the Military Turn-Based Tactics genre isn't huge, I think it's pretty safe to lump in Phoenix Point, Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters, etc.
I'VE NEVER X'D A COM. WHAT GIVES?
XCOM is a franchise that started decades ago by a guy named Julian Gollop, but was revived in 2012 by Firaxis Games and Jake Solomon. Seriously go check the other thread.
Basically you run a covert paramilitary organization dedicated to defending humanity against extraterrestrials. ET go home in a body bag. Your guys go home in body bags, too. XCOM, when played in its purest form, is the game where you name squadmates after your family and friends, then watch as they are horribly slaughtered by xenos. Ironman mode, with permanent death and only one save, is one way that people prefer to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQutCE7dy84RIGHT, CAN'T FORGET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU_QI61YI5g(RIP DMX)
Later installments such as XCOM 2 and Chimera Squad aren't quite so xenophobic, with humans learning to live first with human-alien hybrids and then just going in to the office and hitting on the Snek Lady in the next cubicle.
WHAT IF I WANT A MORE AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE, LIKE XENONAUTS?
Some fans of the 90s X-COM games decided that the Firaxis games weren't as granular and obtuse as the originals and decided to make you stick your dick in a food processor. I dunno, some folks like Xenonauts. I couldn't get through a whole game (except the times I lost).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxJ0rZZIpnEAnyway there's a sequel coming to Steam soonish.
WHAT IF I WANTED AN EVEN MORE AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE FROM JULIAN GOLLOP, LIKE PHOENIX POINT?
The original creator, Julian Gollop, got back into the game with Phoenix Point, which is ambitious, crunchy, and occasionally very frustrating. It's gotten constant updates and DLC since it came out in 2019, and while the original bugs are all gone, there are always new ones since they keep adding stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hShH1BNvzVcI like the game, but milage definitely varies.
ENOUGH OF THIS HERESY, SHOW ME THE DARK FUTURE WHERE THERE IS ONLY WAR!
While there are plenty of tacical turn-based games about Warhammer 40K, most of them are, well, kinda janky. Not so with the lavishly titled Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Gate - Daemonhunters. This just came out last week, and I know it is going to eat a lot of my time.
Essentially you play a group of Grey Knights co-opted by an Inquisitor to root out Grandfather Nurgle's corruption. Every one of your soldiers is a psyker badass holy soldier of the Emperor of Mankind. I've only played about 10 hours, and this shit is HARD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyaJj2s37jsLet the purifying kicksmash purge all doors of evil.
Anyway, that's what's fresh in my mind at the moment. Feel free to talk about other turn-based tactical games with randomized squads here, too. Maybe Mario vs. Rabbids and other games with pre-established squad members that use XCOM-like mechanics, but probably not as much pure RPGs (but, like, do what you want, I'm not the XCOM police).
Dracomicron on
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I think in some ways the game is forgiving, insofar as it's really hard for your dudes to die. This allows them some perverse incentive to just be as nasty as possible (extra enemy reinforcements as a Bloom effect, enemies focus firing on your weaker links, etc).
I do notice a few things.
First, they don't seem to execute your downed marines. They patiently wait three turns for them to stand back up at half health to murder them. I have been rushing Apothicarium to try and get meaningful augmetics on all my dudes that have gotten jacked.
Second, you reload at the end of each encounter and get all AP back at the start of the next. So you can buff up with the action that gives you shield points, then your last guy kicks in the door. Everyone returns to 3 AP but their buffs stay. I got one Justicar Terminator up to +8 shields with one action, and gave him the ability to send his armour points to any member of the team for a round, which has saved the Interdictor's hide more than once.
One more thing, if one of the bonus goals says "complete the mission before taking X damage," it counts damage to armor, so you can't cheese it by taking hits that don't sink into HP. You have to legit avoid as much damage as possible (which is a good skill to learn anyway, when marines can be out for a month and a half with injuries)
I feel like they were very careful to distinguish Chimera Squad as not being "police" per se. They have a very narrow remit for dealing with unauthorized alien tech.
I appreciated this in 2020.
They do mention that the "real" cops still exist; Chimera Squad gets called in when they can no longer handle the situation (...presumably when dealing with agitators of the three alien tech groups we're currently investigating and only have remits for engaging with...).
The AI for many enemies seems to be deliberately making poor choices, possibly because they want an illusion of threat. Particularly the Death Guard.
It really showed in the end of Act mission where you have to defend for X turns. I lived through enemy incompetence.
The overworld feels pretty random. Having missions spawn in random locations with random modifiers and random rewards means you can be starved of key resources with no real recourse. It's been 90 ingame days since I saw a Servitor reward.
If you are able to hit 2 missions in one spawn it's a huge boon. The same with easy Requisition modifiers.
I find that the Death Guard can be managed better at long range. If they don't have a good shot on you they'll make hazard areas or just kinda wander off. Then if you damage them enough they'll go ask Nurgle for healing instead of attack. At closer range with good sight lines they'll shoot me up consistently.
I hate the trees and look forward to the time when I can focus fire them down in a round instead of needing to kill their minions first.
That's not really unlike any XCOM-like game though? Gotta roll with the RNG. Strategic use of your Prognosticators can definitely help some there.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
I haven't gotten a single prognosticator since I unwisely used my starting one immediately. I've had a prognosticarium upgrade and a research project for them, but nobody to use them.
If someone can provide some insight to use the Purgator class I am all ears, they seem to be the weakest of the classes.
Interceptors with teleport strike is some of the most OP thing I have deployed. Use them.
I have a second interceptor built to carry a Psicannon who's sole job is to wipe out armor and bunched up enemies. (The expend all ammo ability sprays a large coned arc if front of the Knight and does good armor damage, up to 6 So far)
You get an option to get a Grey Knight Special class (Librarian, Paladin, and 2 others). I chose the librarian, He can get a mass teleport ability, he starts with a psi bolt ability that does 3 dmg and ignores cover (no WP cost, can be upgraded to 4). He can also great a stupidly high armor bonus to the Psionic armor ability, can also transfer that value to another knight with WP.
Stupidly good, many different ways to build. Optimal use of the 2handed staff (has a 25% chance to put up armor ward at end of turn.)
I've only used them a few times (took a lot of injuries early on), but one mission my purgator was the MVP with his free shot ability when another marine shoots a target within his range. Did a LOT of damage at long range. They're also the only ones that start with proficiency with all the heavy weapons, so I imagine as you requisition unique big guns you'll want someone to actually use them.
While I like the idea of the flamer, the range on it is not good. It does let you capitalize on oilprometheum spill map features, though.
Do pay attention that most weapons are 1/2 damage over 1/2 range, and 1/4 damage over 3/4 range.
Flamers just do their damage. I have one flamer that has +1 range and +1 round to the ground spray which is quite good if the enemy is choked, or if you are dealing with spawn in (And this game has a lot of spawn in. But yeah, you have to work it, there are turns when my flamer does because the enemy is just too far away.
I did chose poorly on the special class, I chose Chaplain thinking I'd get an uber healer, but it's more of a defensive group buffer. You can set resistance super high on other knights etcet. I also have a Paladin from an Event, but he got hurt for 35 days the first time I fielded him.
Purgator is also the one that can be set up to carry 2 grenades, which are very helpful. This game has ring out instadeaths, besides the obvious destroy cover. I also have a grenade that perma destroys armor which is very helpful with boss enemies.
The Apothicary hobble is great. Between that and a Purgator blind, you can practically negate an entire enemy turn.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
I'm used to automatic-gain DLC being minor stuff that's helpful but not, like endgame quality. This appears to be endgame quality.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
I guess the trick is maybe that he only shows up after you beat the first boss, so he can't carry you through what appears to be the hardest part of the game.
He also isn't especially tough in terms of soaking damage. His barrier is only +2 armor and he has none inate. So you still have to manage his health.
I'd love a Star Wars game using the tactical action strategy formula or whatever you want to call it. That King Arthur game just came out. I've been eyeing it as well. I think there's plenty of room for the concept to grow too. I'd love to see a Warcraft game in the genre.
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
Max squad is four? And it's only space Marines? You can't get a sister of battle or something else?
They have a stat called Resilience. That's how many times they can die in mission before having to be FedExed off to Titan.
After being critically wounded (dropped to zero in a mission) They have a long recovery time and will have augmetics installed (cybernetic implants with buffs) to kind of offset the fact you didn't have a teammate for a long time. It's very cheap and easy to get new knights if you want to due to the loot system. Or you can just hire them for low amounts of monies.
Max size is 4. Only Grey Knights. No lesser champions of mankind allowed.
Characters get critically wounded before they die though. They lose a limb but become net stronger.
Unfortunately my game is softlocked bugged. I'm saved in front of a door, there is an enemy behind the door, and when I open it it plays a cutscene and gets stuck.
I accidentally overwrote my ship save so I am not sure I have a recourse except hope it gets patched. I'm too deep in to even consider restarting.
Hopefully they will release expansions or sequels with other playable factions. I think for the sake of this as a standalone product, the narrow focus helps it. They were able to put a bunch of care and attention to detail into the Grey Knight character models, abilities, and lore. I'd be ok if it was one playable faction per game.
That said, this game leans heavy into psyker gameplay and it would be rough to not have a psychic character. Like, I'm not sure this is the right platform for a Gaunt's Ghosts campaign, but now that I said that I really want one.
Of course, a faction's sales figures in the tabletop are largely influenced by the amount of attention that Games Workshop gives to them, and just like video games, historically Games Workshop has not been very good at updates and support for the Maidens. It seems like whenever a big refresh happens the Maidens are more likely than not to be left behind. Not always. But most of the time. It's a self defeating cycle. The faction would probably sell better if they received better support from GW, but GW doesn't support them as well as other factions because they don't get good sales numbers.
I would love some Sororitas video gamage. They are really cool, and subject of some great Black Library titles.
Barring special units like the Saints, they aren't really able to run with Gray Knights except as cannon fodder, though. So their own campaign at the least (maybe with an anti-Bloom, leading to miracles over time?
My friend plays that game and I've been meaning to look into it. Maybe I'll wait for the sisters.
EDIT: Argh, just found a game-stalling bug. I got to the Bloomspawn Spreader at the end of a level and it soft-locks. The animations still go, but it won't go back to my turn after the NPCs do some commentary. I fought a Spreader before without locking... wonder if the recent patch broke it.
I liked the idea of Mecanicus, but the game...mechanics...kinda left me cold. The fact that you have no idea what kind of or how many rooms you will have to deal with on a mission made it hard to plan for. Also the randomness of what choices do made FTL blush.
The recent patch is a bit of a "you were having to much fun" bummer. They nerfed WP income and made strong abilities more expensive, which means that now you only get to use your signature ability a few times per mission.
They also took a big hammer to the Execute loop, but the result of it is that now it's mostly out of reach for normal players.
I'd say in general the game is a fun rump, but it really misses the excitement of the escalation of Xcom 2. So many missions feel really similar.
If they do DLC, they need to add both player options and mission variety to get me to replay it.
I also was able to mission restart and salvage. No consolation to people ironmanning it though.
The Execute thing seemed like it would be fun exactly once. I strung together some epic turns in Gears Tactics with executions but it shouldn't be reliable.
People complaining about bonus weapons being given to people who watched the Twitch stream resulted in everyone getting apparently unlimited buffed low level weapons with +1 crit damage or +5% crit. This makes base stormbolters and such obsolete. I would've given ONE copy of each Twitch gun to everybody so the don't become the new default ("hello Initiate Asmodai, here's your power armor and unique chapter relic Darig's Gift storm bolter." "Thank you honored quartermaster. Pardon, but why does Initiate Crassus also have unique chapter relic Darig's Gift?").
Between this and the pay-to-win level 20 DLC character, seems like Complex Games still has some learning to do about making something other than a monitized free-to-play mobile game.
Still really enjoying the game, but these are rookie mistakes.
Only random thing were the tactical choices ( runes were fixed results) but you kinda need a bit of randomness in this genre , otherwise things become way too stale and easy to mitigate . Plus exploring and fighting in a completely unknown battlefield to purge the necrons and either steal their secrets or destroy everything ( depending on which path you favored ) was kind of the theme of the game .
I mean, if I recall correctly, the exploration events were completely random, which is good in some ways, but there was absolutely no way to know which was the "right" choice, as practically any option you chose could have a good or bad outcome. I would prefer to have a percentage chance of a good result under each option... We are the Mechanicus, after all; calculation is our thing. Plus the results of those exploration events directly translated to how difficult the combat encounters were (again if I recall, it's been awhile).
I believe they added an option that just straight up tells you what will happen. You could still draw three bad events since that would still be up to rng but you can see the results of each.
Oh nice. That might be worth re-uploading on Steam once I am done with Daemonhunters. I don't mind bad events, but the results were always inscrutable and some effects were way worse than others.
Wasn't there already a really good superhero turn based strategy game? Set in like silver age heroic times? You could make your own hero, and find others to train and upgrade. Urg, what was it called...
Edit - Freedom Force! That was a great game!
I'd fucking love a bigger budget Deathwatch game.
You've got different Marines from different chapters, which can open up different builds (Salamander is really good with Flamers and Meltas, Space Wolf and Bood Angel is great at melee, Ultramarine is... an Ultramarine, etc). You have lots of different enemies which plays nice with smaller, more contained stories and expansions - surgical strike on an Ork Waaagh, Eldar Corsairs fucking with a system, rooting out a Genestealer Cult, etc.
Then so, so much wargear. Do you stick to Imperial weapons, or do you give your Salamander a Fusion Gun? Give your Black Templar a Choppa or a Rock Saw?