[Ecological Disaster] Ohio River Basin: How bad? Depends on who you ask!

jungleroomx

I wasn't going to post this until I saw this:



Tweeter is of course Jamaal Brown, Congressman. The EPA is confirming that some of the vinyl chloride has entered the Ohio river basin, which is very bad news.

This comes hot on the heels of rail workers pleading for time off, sick days, and proper staffing to avoid an accident. A lot of people are calling for the c-suite to be actually personally responsible for this disaster, and while I can't say I disagree I also recognize we live in a corrupt country where people like them walk free.

I feel this is going to get worse before it gets better.

DARKPRIMUS

On Saturday, February 3rd, at about 9 PM EST, about 50 cars derailed from a Norfolk Southern freight train in East Palestine, Ohio.

Norfolk Southern said 20 of the more than 100 cars were classified as carrying hazardous materials — defined as cargo that could pose any kind of danger “including flammables, combustibles, or environmental risks.” Graham said 14 cars carrying vinyl chloride were involved in the derailment “and have been exposed to fire,” and at least one “is intermittently releasing the contents of the car through a pressure release device as designed.”
“At this time we are working to verify which hazardous materials cars, if any, have been breached,” he said. The Environmental Protection Agency and Norfolk Southern were continuing to monitor air quality, and investigators would begin their on-scene work “once the scene is safe and secure,” he said.

There was a one-mile zone - quickly changed to a two-mile evacuation zone - that was established around the crash site.

Authorities decided on Monday, February 6th, to do a "controlled burn" of the 100,000 gallons/1,000,000 pounds of vinyl chloride. The effects of this absolutely were felt beyond the two-mile evacuation zone previously established.

Photographs showing the immense size of the toxic cloud, both from the ground and from the air, make it clear that the effects of these chemicals were spread by this burn.

Foxes just outside the 2-mile evacation zone and chickens dead 10 miles away from East Palestine are just a small sampling of reports of people finding pets and livestock dead after this burn was initiated. One Twitter user shared pictures of the staining on his car after driving through a rain shower more than 70 miles away downwind of the burn. The true extent and range of this disaster is going to be difficult to determine.

By February 8th, Norfolk Southern had resumed running trains on the line through East Palestine.

Another post will be forth-coming tomorrow looking at the deregulation of railroad safety and the inhospitable conditions that railroad workers have to endure that created the conditions for this preventable disaster to occur - and how more derailments are inevitable unless things change.

EDIT:
Houston-area crash between truck, Union Pacific train kills driver, derails 20-plus rail cars

ANOTHER DERAILMENT! JUST THIS MORNING!

Are you fucking goddamn kidding me with this right now!

Havelock2.0

Jesus Christ

Is Ohio going to activate the Emergency Management Assistance Compact for this?? This is a bfd.

Weaver

https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/3-additional-chemicals-discovered-on-east-palestine-train-derailment/

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sent a letter to Norfolk Southern stating that ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, ethylhexyl acrylate and isobutylene were also in the rail cars that were derailed, breached and/or on fire.

urahonky

I'm down south near Dayton and I'm trying to figure out if I should be drinking the water here or not.

Unknown

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Death of Rats

Sure glad for the strike breaking last year.

urahonky

Hmm might be okay then maybe for a bit... Might be time to stock up on bottled water just in case.

Unknown

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Death of Rats

The railroads are at determinable fault here.

jungleroomx

I think it's because people aren't absolutely freaking the fuck out and were more emphatic about football or whether Rhianna was pregnant than a railroad company poisoning 10% of the country and Chernobylling an entire town.

tbloxham

jungleroomx wrote: »

I wasn't going to post this until I saw this:



Tweeter is of course Jamaal Brown, Congressman. The EPA is confirming that some of the vinyl chloride has entered the Ohio river basin, which is very bad news.

This comes hot on the heels of rail workers pleading for time off, sick days, and proper staffing to avoid an accident. A lot of people are calling for the c-suite to be actually personally responsible for this disaster, and while I can't say I disagree I also recognize we live in a corrupt country where people like them walk free.

I feel this is going to get worse before it gets better.

I guess the main concern/question here would be does this material get more/less or unchanged in its danger when you burn it.

I work with a variety of hazardous halogen materials which are VERY horrible unburned, but, become just like, normal horrible, when they are burned. But, clearly not all halogen containing materials will work this way. Considering they decided to burn it, I hope that these materials do that too...

Weaver

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I kind of wish people would stop saying "no one is talking about it" because apparently every fucking one is talking about how no one is talking about it. The crash, the fire, and the toxic plume were all reported just fine.

I'm pretty sure the primary issue here is that there's not an awful lot to talk about because the vast majority of people can do nothing about this. It's a local problem where no one is clearly at any determinable fault, and the relevant agencies are on site dealing with the affected area? What exactly do people want talked about that would help in anyway?

Vanguard wrote: »

Hot take

This is really bad?

Like poisoned about 10% of the country bad

IMO: kind of questionable. Vinyl Chloride isn't very stable since it's a reagent in a bunch of downstream chemical reactions, and burns easily. UV in the upper atmosphere will degrade it rapidly (the carbon double bond cracks real easily at UV wavelengths). The problem is until it degrades, it's a very reactive small molecule - so exposure by any route isn't good times. But it's not going to sit in the soil for years either - it will degrade.

It's been memory-holed on CNN for a couple days at least.

Tastyfish

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I kind of wish people would stop saying "no one is talking about it" because apparently every fucking one is talking about how no one is talking about it. The crash, the fire, and the toxic plume were all reported just fine.

I'm pretty sure the primary issue here is that there's not an awful lot to talk about because the vast majority of people can do nothing about this. It's a local problem where no one is clearly at any determinable fault, and the relevant agencies are on site dealing with the affected area? What exactly do people want talked about that would help in anyway?

Vanguard wrote: »

Hot take

This is really bad?

Like poisoned about 10% of the country bad

IMO: kind of questionable. Vinyl Chloride isn't very stable since it's a reagent in a bunch of downstream chemical reactions, and burns easily. UV in the upper atmosphere will degrade it rapidly (the carbon double bond cracks real easily at UV wavelengths). The problem is until it degrades, it's a very reactive small molecule - so exposure by any route isn't good times. But it's not going to sit in the soil for years either - it will degrade.

I suppose the contrast is to something like the monkeypox cases, or ebola cases a few years back. Timelines for this, areas that are at risk or not at risk, why the accident happened and why the waste was being transported this way do all seem like you could generate some talk about. Also raising awareness of how perhaps this isn't going to be that big a deal, but that there are some serious threats to the US's water systems and that it shouldn't be taken for granted.

moniker

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I kind of wish people would stop saying "no one is talking about it" because apparently every fucking one is talking about how no one is talking about it. The crash, the fire, and the toxic plume were all reported just fine.

I'm pretty sure the primary issue here is that there's not an awful lot to talk about because the vast majority of people can do nothing about this. It's a local problem where no one is clearly at any determinable fault, and the relevant agencies are on site dealing with the affected area? What exactly do people want talked about that would help in anyway?

Vanguard wrote: »

Hot take

This is really bad?

Like poisoned about 10% of the country bad

IMO: kind of questionable. Vinyl Chloride isn't very stable since it's a reagent in a bunch of downstream chemical reactions, and burns easily. UV in the upper atmosphere will degrade it rapidly (the carbon double bond cracks real easily at UV wavelengths). The problem is until it degrades, it's a very reactive small molecule - so exposure by any route isn't good times. But it's not going to sit in the soil for years either - it will degrade.

Like this is what we're talking about (it's used to make PVC):

I'm mostly interested in seeing the EPA and NTSB make substantial statements about the actual risks and impact for both the affected area and places downstream. Rather than some of the more histrionic Instagram story tweets about how Norfolk Southern practically murdered 30 million people on top of a photogenic fireball from people who know about as much as I do about chemistry pulling SDS sheets.

There was also a pipeline leak in Nevada last week that prompted a State of Emergency. It hasn't gotten nearly the same "everybody talking about nobody talking about it treatment", though.

thatassemblyguy

jungleroomx wrote: »

<snip>

This comes hot on the heels of rail workers pleading for time off, sick days, and proper staffing to avoid an accident. <snip>

These are the joint resolutions that were passed and signed last year busting the union strike threat which was asking for these things, but they didn't get the things they needed (e.g., an end to {insert term I forgot here} that was basically running skeleton crews and reduced maintenance budgets etc)

First joint-resolution/vote:
Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-joint-resolution/100

This joint resolution requires the parties to the disputes between certain railroads and labor organizations to accept the most recent tentative agreements, side letters, and local carrier agreements entered into by the parties that have not been ratified before the date of enactment of this joint resolution.

Vote:
Senate: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00372.htm
House: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022490

Second joint-resolution/vote:
Link: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/119

This concurrent resolution provides for seven days of sick leave for railroad employees under the terms of the the most recent tentative agreements, side letters, and local carrier agreements entered into by the parties to the disputes between certain railroads and labor organizations.

Vote:
Senate: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00371.htm
House: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2022491

DarkPrimus

Weaver wrote: »

https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/3-additional-chemicals-discovered-on-east-palestine-train-derailment/

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sent a letter to Norfolk Southern stating that ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, ethylhexyl acrylate and isobutylene were also in the rail cars that were derailed, breached and/or on fire.

“We basically nuked a town with chemicals so we could get a railroad open,” said Sil Caggiano, a hazardous materials specialist.

There is absolutely no way that the deleterious effects of these chemicals were limited to the two-mile evacuation zone they established. And I highly doubt that it's safe for people to return to their homes and drink water from their wells.

People's pets and livestock died more than ten miles away. The "controlled burn" created a cloud that went directly into a windy storm formation that carried these chemicals over dozens, if not hundreds, of miles. And who knows how much was leeched into the Ohio River.

Locals have reported that when trying to photograph fish kills in a stream, they were stopped by investigators employed by the railroad and told that journalists aren't allowed to document this.

I was collecting sources to create an OP for a thread on this disaster. When I get home I will cobble some of it together to share.

Styrofoam Sammich

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Label

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

Casual Eddy

I’ve seen more headlines about the balloons than this

Incenjucar

Gotta keep that access.

tyrannus

jungleroomx wrote: »

I think it's because people aren't absolutely freaking the fuck out and were more emphatic about football or whether Rhianna was pregnant than a railroad company poisoning 10% of the country and Chernobylling an entire town.

Should probably just have someone execute the executives if they don't at least serve time for it

Phoenix-D

I feel like a firefighter hazmat guy should know about BLVEs
https://youtu.be/UM0jtD_OWLU?t=85

Better to deal with it than end up where it all goes up at once and blows up a shitload of the town and other rail cars too. Which still leaves you with a cloud of acid and various other dubious-as-shit chemicals. Most of them break down very quickly thankfully, but still side-eying saying it's safe to go back that soon.

Also the rail company should be paying every dime of expenses for everyone affected

Dark_Side

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

Styrofoam Sammich

Man if only there'd been some big push to address the condition the railways are run in

Incenjucar

Biden is a pretty big fan of acting like everything is fine, so I'm not going to be surprised if he Mission Accomplisheds this into a memory hole.

DarkPrimus

On Saturday, February 3rd, at about 9 PM EST, about 50 cars derailed from a Norfolk Southern freight train in East Palestine, Ohio.

Norfolk Southern said 20 of the more than 100 cars were classified as carrying hazardous materials — defined as cargo that could pose any kind of danger “including flammables, combustibles, or environmental risks.” Graham said 14 cars carrying vinyl chloride were involved in the derailment “and have been exposed to fire,” and at least one “is intermittently releasing the contents of the car through a pressure release device as designed.”
“At this time we are working to verify which hazardous materials cars, if any, have been breached,” he said. The Environmental Protection Agency and Norfolk Southern were continuing to monitor air quality, and investigators would begin their on-scene work “once the scene is safe and secure,” he said.

There was a one-mile zone - quickly changed to a two-mile evacuation zone - that was established around the crash site.

Authorities decided on Monday, February 6th, to do a "controlled burn" of the 100,000 gallons/1,000,000 pounds of vinyl chloride. The effects of this absolutely were felt beyond the two-mile evacuation zone previously established.

Photographs showing the immense size of the toxic cloud, both from the ground and from the air, make it clear that the effects of these chemicals were spread by this burn.

Foxes just outside the 2-mile evacation zone and chickens dead 10 miles away from East Palestine are just a small sampling of reports of people finding pets and livestock dead after this burn was initiated. One Twitter user shared pictures of the staining on his car after driving through a rain shower more than 70 miles away downwind of the burn. The true extent and range of this disaster is going to be difficult to determine.

By February 8th, Norfolk Southern had resumed running trains on the line through East Palestine.

Another post will be forth-coming tomorrow looking at the deregulation of railroad safety and the inhospitable conditions that railroad workers have to endure that created the conditions for this preventable disaster to occur - and how more derailments are inevitable unless things change.

EDIT:
Houston-area crash between truck, Union Pacific train kills driver, derails 20-plus rail cars

ANOTHER DERAILMENT! JUST THIS MORNING!

Are you fucking goddamn kidding me with this right now!

moniker

Label wrote: »

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

All rail transport is by it's nature a monopoly, unless you allow competitors on your own tracks. It needs to be nationalized again, same as the road network, and allow private haulers to use it with an infrastructure management fee same as trucks and diesel taxes.

Captain Inertia

moniker wrote: »

Label wrote: »

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

All rail transport is by it's nature a monopoly, unless you allow competitors on your own tracks. It needs to be nationalized again, same as the road network, and allow private haulers to use it with an infrastructure management fee same as trucks and diesel taxes.

I’m a dummy who thought it worked this way already

Wow!

milski

Figuring out the actual likely impacts and contamination of this is really difficult. My thoughts at this point:

• I am inclined to believe the reports the air is safe from vinyl chloride and phosgene at this point, as both of these break down very quickly.
• That said, there are a lot of people in ??? Radius who probably got enough exposure to have elevated cancer risk, though likely not to the degree of e.g. a PVC factory worker.
• That said, I am skeptical there are not other chemistries involved or ground/water contamination that will last for some time and pose a risk that makes the area technically safe but require not eating stuff grown there or drinking the water. UV filtration should be able to remediate vinyl chloride in water, I think?
• The livestock and fish kills are horrific, although I am curious if the mechanism that can result in a chicken death 10 miles out is meaningfully present in humans. Fish deaths are obviously due to direct water contamination or acidification of the water.
• That dude's car being discolored sucks but acid rain damaging a car very far away is not really the same thing as being harmful to humans, in the sense that acid is really usually a short term problem that is fairly obvious if it's hurting you.
• Sucks for the fish though!

moniker

Captain Inertia wrote: »

moniker wrote: »

Label wrote: »

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

All rail transport is by it's nature a monopoly, unless you allow competitors on your own tracks. It needs to be nationalized again, same as the road network, and allow private haulers to use it with an infrastructure management fee same as trucks and diesel taxes.

I’m a dummy who thought it worked this way already

Wow!

The different Class I's typically have agreements with each other to do some track sharing, but mostly just for congested areas where there isn't much of an alternative, or it's the sole east-west track for hundreds of miles. Also, track sharing with short line Class III railroads. But even with that, it's not like you really have a choice for shipping when you get to literally anywhere else that you need your goods to travel to.

enc0re

moniker wrote: »

Label wrote: »

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

All rail transport is by it's nature a monopoly, unless you allow competitors on your own tracks. It needs to be nationalized again, same as the road network, and allow private haulers to use it with an infrastructure management fee same as trucks and diesel taxes.

Just to be clear, and I know you’re saying this, the tracks are the natural monopoly. The trains are not.

Similar to roads vs trucks. And yeah, having all the interstates privately owned would be an obviously bad idea. “Oh, there’s a Freightliner truck coming through and they own this highway. Everybody pull over and let them through.”

evilmrhenry

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

archivistkitsune

moniker wrote: »

Label wrote: »

Shit like this should be a corporate death sentence, in my opinion.

This is enabled by rail consolidation, and these monopolistic fuckers should be busted up. Hopefully then the smaller companies would have less ability to push around the regulators.

All rail transport is by it's nature a monopoly, unless you allow competitors on your own tracks. It needs to be nationalized again, same as the road network, and allow private haulers to use it with an infrastructure management fee same as trucks and diesel taxes.

In addition to naturalizing the railroads. We should also give regulators better tools to deal with bad actors, while also ensuring that bad actors don't get to just keep getting away with shit. Part of that is acknowledging that people aren't entitled to run a business. Fuck up enough and not only will it be taken away, but the person will be barred from being able to own any businesses, on top of their latest round of fines.

Also can do some punishments in a way that doesn't hurt the workers, if the concern is that people will be out of work, when it's jus the owner(s) and/or upper management being the fuck ups. Can always temporarily nationalize a business and auction it off to someone who won't end up owning too much market share at the conclusion of the auction. Bam, the workers get to keep their jobs, no one can getting worried about the government eventually controlling everything, when that might not be ideal and you can still avoid letting companies get too big.

Polaritie

Isn't there already a thing courts use for bankruptcy and such? Recievership or something? Where the government installs someone to run the company during proceedings.

Just use that. Appoint a neutral party to manage the business while the executives are hauled off in chains. They run things until replacement management can be found/installed.

Calica

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

moniker

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah, I thought OSHA had fully integrated the GHS classification system last decade?

Aioua

moniker wrote: »

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah, I thought OSHA had fully integrated the GHS classification system last decade?

How much you wanna bet OSHA doesn't apply to Train Law?

evilmrhenry

moniker wrote: »

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah, I thought OSHA had fully integrated the GHS classification system last decade?

The definition in question applies just to the law in question. (Well, applied, before the Trump admin removed what little teeth it had.)

Kelor

Aioua wrote: »

moniker wrote: »

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah, I thought OSHA had fully integrated the GHS classification system last decade?

How much you wanna bet OSHA doesn't apply to Train Law?

This is correct, train companies have their own little carve out and are regulated by the Federal Railway Administration.

Monwyn

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah that's just wrong. DOT classes UN1086 as Hazard 2.1, "flammable gas."

moniker

Kelor wrote: »

Aioua wrote: »

moniker wrote: »

Calica wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

Dark_Side wrote: »

Styrofoam Sammich wrote: »

Shocking how little press time this is getting

Honestly I'm more shocked it hasn't provoked a Federal response and/or Biden addressing it in a press conference. I've seen plenty of speculation today that this was an entirely preventable accident that would not have happened if the RR's weren't eschewing safety across the board (in this case fighting tooth and nail against new safety brakes the Obama admin tried to push forward), and running crews at minimum manpower AND overloading them on responsibilities.

The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident.[4] In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.

Would you believe that Norfolk Southern undertook a 10 billion stock buyback program in March 2022? What will be the next mass ecological, human, or financial peril we're made to suffer so companies can continue rigging their stock price and gifting their profits to executives?

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/
This is the source for the brakes comment, and is a thorough analysis of the derailment. Basically, the chemicals being transported were not defined as "hazardous flammable materials". The only chemicals that meet that definition are basically oil/fuel/etc. (Expansion of this definition would be reasonable. "Anything that requires an evacuation of the surrounding area" seems like a better definition.) Then the Trump administration repealed the requirement for the new brakes altogether.

What.

Yeah, I thought OSHA had fully integrated the GHS classification system last decade?

How much you wanna bet OSHA doesn't apply to Train Law?

This is correct, train companies have their own little carve out and are regulated by the Federal Railway Administration.

Only for matters specific to railroading, otherwise OSHA rules still apply. And the FRA does not preempt OSHA HAZCOM https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2014-12-23-2