One thing ST4 really showed, that no other movie ever even tried, was the versatility of the Star Trek format. Even on the big screen. You could do silly and only a bit serious and kinda goofy and it still all works. The cast and the setup gives you a real range of things you can do. It's kinda silly when you think about it that no one ever tried to stray from the action-drama blend on the big screen again given how successful ST4 was.
I can see the logic. Trek can wear all the hats, but a TV series can experiment with that sort of thing where a movie can't. Like Subspace Rhapsody; even if a lot of people didn't like it, they went back to regular Trek stuff next week. Doing something like a Trek courtroom movie about one character's right to exist/serve in Starfleet would probably generate a lot of what the hell was that in response.
And ST4 was still movie level stakes (fate of Earth, etc), it just managed to add silliness without actually making what was happening silly.
Hello Lower Deckers. I’m so sad to announce that Paramount Plus won’t be moving forward with more seasons of Lower Decks. I can’t begin to tell you what an honor it’s been to be a part of this show and the Star Trek universe at large. I am unbelievably grateful for 5 awesome seasons with this wonderful family. I want to thank each and every person who put so much of their hard work and talent into every episode. You are AMAZING. The good news is that everyone who makes Lower Decks LOVES making Lower Decks. I could play Boimler for 17 more seasons. No joke. I’m serious. I love that purple-haired nerd. Hopefully we find a new home, but until then please look forward to an amazing season five (airing this fall). LLAP🖖❤️
Jack Quaid expressing hopes that they can find a home on another network, though not that there's necessarily any indication that the showrunners are actually going to be looking for one.
Bones super-healing people in hospital is funny, but imagine if that ever came up with Starfleet Command later on:
"Yes, you travelled in time, and you provided the formulae for transparent aluminum to someone, quite possibly changing history (we can't tell now, because our database says that guy came up with it), but since you saved a species from extinction in the past in order to save all the other Earth species from extinction now, we'll let it slide."
"Uh, I also gave a woman a new kidney when there was no mission-critical reason to do so."
"WHAT"
[checks database]
"Okay, we looked it up, and apparently this woman's 'miracle recovery' started a movement teaching that just pills would heal any illness. She got millions of people to refuse medical treatment in favour of just taking masses of vitamin pills, causing thousands of avoidable deaths. Good job, doctor."
"How do you know your actions haven't changed the course of history? We could be living in an alternate timeline right now?
"I think if we did change history, we'd be the first to notice it."
"...I hate when they say that."
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've always liked the idea that time travels bathes you in timey-wimey Dr. Who-ey rays that mean you remember old timelines if the current one is altered.
It goes into if travelling through time actually moves you in time or jumps you to a parallel reality, but presumably your own past can't be altered when you time travel or the altered you wouldn't have gone back in time, or if they did their actions wouldn't have been the same. Probably something to do with chronitons.
Hello Lower Deckers. I’m so sad to announce that Paramount Plus won’t be moving forward with more seasons of Lower Decks. I can’t begin to tell you what an honor it’s been to be a part of this show and the Star Trek universe at large. I am unbelievably grateful for 5 awesome seasons with this wonderful family. I want to thank each and every person who put so much of their hard work and talent into every episode. You are AMAZING. The good news is that everyone who makes Lower Decks LOVES making Lower Decks. I could play Boimler for 17 more seasons. No joke. I’m serious. I love that purple-haired nerd. Hopefully we find a new home, but until then please look forward to an amazing season five (airing this fall). LLAP🖖❤️
Jack Quaid expressing hopes that they can find a home on another network, though not that there's necessarily any indication that the showrunners are actually going to be looking for one.
At this point I think Paramount is going to move all their animated content to Netflix at some point
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
It goes into if travelling through time actually moves you in time or jumps you to a parallel reality, but presumably your own past can't be altered when you time travel or the altered you wouldn't have gone back in time, or if they did their actions wouldn't have been the same. Probably something to do with chronitons.
Just route them through the EPS into the main deflector dish. That should solve everything.
Everyone, 2020*: "We can't just let Netflix have all that money, that's our money! How hard could it be to start our own streaming service, for our content, and keep all the money for ourselves?"
Everyone but Disney, 2024: "Fuck, just let Netflix have it, I guess."
* ish, I think?
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Sad news, but if this was the plan (and it sounds like it was), I'm not going to rage against Paramount for it.
The fact is that every series tends to get the epitaph 'died before its time' or 'should have been cancelled after season X'.
(and some get both. Enterprise should have been cancelled after season 1, and should have gotten a season 5)
I can't think of any series anywhere that has everyone concerned conclude that yes, this was the exact right number of episodes, more would have been too many, less would have been too few.
Breaking Bad. From what I've heard also Better Call Saul but I haven't watched it yet.
Won't silicon valley extracting rents from all the entertainment companies actually be bad in the long run?
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Honestly 5 seasons is 4 more seasons than I expected. When it was first announced I assumed it would be complete trash, but instead it ended up being one of the best Star Trek shows, well, ever.
Hopefully we get more seasons, but if not, I'm glad we got what we got. Everyone associated with making Lower Decks should be proud of what they've accomplished. Their joy and love for the franchise shined through in every episode.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It's astounding Lower Decks ever got one season, nevermind multiple seasons. It had to be during a phase when Paramount was just rubber-stamping everything Star Trek that came their way because there is no way that I could see media corporate shitheads looking at the show concept and not instantly going "so it's Futurama but with Star Trek? Hard pass." You just don't get shows like Lower Decks when the executive ghouls are paying attention.
Nah. They thought they were getting Rick and Morty Star Trek. Luckily the writers and production team managed a bait and switch halfway through the first season. And by then everyone loved it too much for them to stop.
Paramount wanted their MCU back before the MCU got homogenized into action comedies with random deep cut lore references.
Way back when Discovery first started they were talking about a bunch of shows, with a Section 31 spy drama and a Starfleet Academy show that varied in the telling from a teen comedy to a teen drama. One of the worst received ideas was a sitcom about ensigns for whom the heroics of the senior staff are a barely visible source of terror and hardship.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
It goes into if travelling through time actually moves you in time or jumps you to a parallel reality, but presumably your own past can't be altered when you time travel or the altered you wouldn't have gone back in time, or if they did their actions wouldn't have been the same. Probably something to do with chronitons.
Just route them through the EPS into the main deflector dish. That should solve everything.
Star Fleet Engineer "that's absurd that won't... wait a minute, have you done this before? Holy shit... no wonder you consoles keep exploding like they're packed with c4!"
It goes into if travelling through time actually moves you in time or jumps you to a parallel reality, but presumably your own past can't be altered when you time travel or the altered you wouldn't have gone back in time, or if they did their actions wouldn't have been the same. Probably something to do with chronitons.
Just route them through the EPS into the main deflector dish. That should solve everything.
Star Fleet Engineer "that's absurd that won't... wait a minute, have you done this before? Holy shit... no wonder you consoles keep exploding like they're packed with c4!"
"You mean you don't pack explosives into your consoles? My God man, and you call yourself an engineer?!"
A little bit of headcanon I have been carrying around for years and now share with you, Star Trek thread:
Klingons have a game like the dozens, called “what they say”. Actually daring to openly mock a fellow warrior or establish a social pecking order through shit-talking carries a high risk of extemporaneous combat, blood oaths, etc. however if the insult is simply reported like hearsay, everyone can listen and appreciate the cleverness of the game without feeling the need to draw steel. An example:
Kang: Kor, is it true what they say?
Kor: what do they say? (This call and response is a formalism with its own cadence and tone, any Klingon hearing it knows a round of the game is afoot)
Kang: They say, your father is so weak, that before he draws his mek’leth in anger he must meditate like a Vulcan!
Kor: (chuckling, appreciating the joke while showing that it hasn’t touched any nerves) Lies, Kang! Let them say it openly, and they will answer to me! (Another formalism, one of several stock responses).
Kor: But Kang, is it true what they say?
Kang: What do they say?
…and so on, game continues until the blood wine runs out, more blood wine arrives, the warp journey to glorious battle draws near its end, etc.
It goes into if travelling through time actually moves you in time or jumps you to a parallel reality, but presumably your own past can't be altered when you time travel or the altered you wouldn't have gone back in time, or if they did their actions wouldn't have been the same. Probably something to do with chronitons.
Just route them through the EPS into the main deflector dish. That should solve everything.
Star Fleet Engineer "that's absurd that won't... wait a minute, have you done this before? Holy shit... no wonder you consoles keep exploding like they're packed with c4!"
"You mean you don't pack explosives into your consoles? My God man, and you call yourself an engineer?!"
"Why...why are there rocks in all these consoles?!" - as every Treky (especially those that watch Junkball) the real nemesis of Starfleet is ROCKS!
A little bit of headcanon I have been carrying around for years and now share with you, Star Trek thread:
Klingons have a game like the dozens, called “what they say”. Actually daring to openly mock a fellow warrior or establish a social pecking order through shit-talking carries a high risk of extemporaneous combat, blood oaths, etc. however if the insult is simply reported like hearsay, everyone can listen and appreciate the cleverness of the game without feeling the need to draw steel. An example:
Kang: Kor, is it true what they say?
Kor: what do they say? (This call and response is a formalism with its own cadence and tone, any Klingon hearing it knows a round of the game is afoot)
Kang: They say, your father is so weak, that before he draws his mek’leth in anger he must meditate like a Vulcan!
Kor: (chuckling, appreciating the joke while showing that it hasn’t touched any nerves) Lies, Kang! Let them say it openly, and they will answer to me! (Another formalism, one of several stock responses).
Kor: But Kang, is it true what they say?
Kang: What do they say?
…and so on, game continues until the blood wine runs out, more blood wine arrives, the warp journey to glorious battle draws near its end, etc.
It was going great, right up until Quark won the game for all time with "I have come to answer the challenge of D'ghor, son of whatever".
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I love that little exchange of D'Gor looking back at Gowron with clear "I want to kill him this instant for that insult!" energy and Gowron is just like "no, shut up, that was a sick burn, let's see what else he's got".
It was going great, right up until Quark won the game for all time with "I have come to answer the challenge of D'ghor, son of whatever".
Quark is actually pretty great at finding a person/species' weak point and exploiting it.
He calls out Klingons, Vulcans, and gives Sisko a lecture about how Ferengi don't have some of Humanity's horror's in their past (while still being blind to some of the horrors they do have, like their treatment of women, but Earth's history can't exactly claim to be that much better).
The Federation is honestly fortunate he stuck to running a bar.
It was going great, right up until Quark won the game for all time with "I have come to answer the challenge of D'ghor, son of whatever".
Quark is actually pretty great at finding a person/species' weak point and exploiting it.
He calls out Klingons, Vulcans, and gives Sisko a lecture about how Ferengi don't have some of Humanity's horror's in their past (while still being blind to some of the horrors they do have, like their treatment of women, but Earth's history can't exactly claim to be that much better).
The Federation is honestly fortunate he stuck to running a bar.
The clip where he schools the Vulcan on logic came up immediately after that one when searching that clip.
"You would presume to lecture me, a Vulcan, on logic?
"Well, someone has to.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
The first few episodes also leaned into exactly the kind of humour people were afraid of. They got their shit together pretty quickly though and by the last bit of S1 I think they'd figured it out.
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TurksonNear the mountains of ColoradoRegistered Userregular
I just found out that we are only getting one more season of Lower Decks and I am straight up not having a good time.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
"I suppose by the transitive property I too must be as Vulcan as a motherf***r."
Noone should ever watch what they don't want to or like. But man, they are missing out on one of the best written, genuinely funny but heart warming shows I have seen recently.
As to the ending of Lower Decks - in the words of one of the first characters in the Star Trek universe: "I wanna stay stay stay stay stay stay...."
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
I think the obvious thing is that this dumb attitude impacts the financial viability of animated projects, and so we have less of them and they are cancelled more quickly.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
I think the obvious thing is that this dumb attitude impacts the financial viability of animated projects, and so we have less of them and they are cancelled more quickly.
Paramount+ is never going to be a thing, though. We are always living on borrowed time. But I agree that we likely could've had more seasons if more people watched it.
I mean look at the fandom and online vitriol aimed at Lower Decks before and during S1. People didn't get that it wasn't just a funny show (and it is) but also it had heart. It was made of purest Roddenberium, it could not have been more Star Trek if it tried.
It was a cartoon, and therefore clearly only worthy of disgust.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
I think the obvious thing is that this dumb attitude impacts the financial viability of animated projects, and so we have less of them and they are cancelled more quickly.
I think these attitudes are changing and not slowly though. Millenials and ESPECIALLY Gen Z have grown up with some really high quality animated products. Heck, even GenX saw kind of the real true beginnings of this, with the Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, etc. Even the MCU has animated stuff
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited April 17
The quality shift of animation from my childhood to now is unbelievably massive. When I was a kid, your average cartoon was incredibly cheap and shitty animation with low framerates, lots of errors, and the worst of them had shitty laugh tracks. I actively detested Scooby-Doo for a long time because the awful 70s run was all there was and holy shit was it cheaply done. Ironically, my favorite cartoons by far were Looney Toons because those were actually done well but those weren't even made for TV (which of course I didn't know as a kid). The 80s saw the budget-oriented Filmation crap dying out, not even the likes of He-Man could save it. The better stuff was, ironically, probably done by an animation house outside the US.
I'd say around Batman TAS and was the big turning point. You also had other big hits like X-Men, Spider-Man, and Gargoyles, all of which were serious shows (though ironically, both X-Men and Gargoyles fell victim to having final seasons done with different cheaper, shittier studios that tanked the shows). That success kicked off the Superman series, Justice League, etc, and there was overall a huge upswing in quality cartoons in the late 90s/early 2000s, particularly as Tartakovsky started making series. Bringing the better anime series over from Japan for broadcast TV also started to hit around then and that was a big influence as well. The resulting artistic inspiration has been huge and I'd say the last 15 years or so have seen an explosion in variety plus an overall tendency towards good animation rather than lowest-budget-possible crap, with probably Avatar: The Last Airbender being at the lead of that push.
The core issue is still that aging media executives are idiots and the only animated series they'll accept are mega-hit comedies. All animation is contemptible in their eyes but they'll tolerate a big moneymaker like The Simpsons, any not specifically comedy has to work damned hard to not get shit on though. That environment is always filled with socially conservative idiots at least half a generation behind the times but yeah, the attitudes are shifting, particularly as it begins to trickle through that a good series can make a lifelong fan that will happily come back in twenty years for new stuff.
Shit, we've got X-Men back. Not just as another re-re-rehashed reimagining trying to appeal to tweens, but the original X-Men animated series with the original style and fucking everything. I'd say it's inconceivable but there it is. Existing media executives don't like it, but they recognize animated stuff can draw lots of attention too.
The issue is less quality imo and more the audience it's aimed at. Adult focused animation from North American (or UK I guess) creators were extremely rare. And still in many ways are. How many major films you see that are animated and aren't either for kids or for families with a PG rating? High quality kids animated shows sadly does not change that issue because it's still just kids entertainment.
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And ST4 was still movie level stakes (fate of Earth, etc), it just managed to add silliness without actually making what was happening silly.
Jack Quaid expressing hopes that they can find a home on another network, though not that there's necessarily any indication that the showrunners are actually going to be looking for one.
"How do you know your actions haven't changed the course of history? We could be living in an alternate timeline right now?
"I think if we did change history, we'd be the first to notice it."
"...I hate when they say that."
At this point I think Paramount is going to move all their animated content to Netflix at some point
Just route them through the EPS into the main deflector dish. That should solve everything.
Everyone but Disney, 2024: "Fuck, just let Netflix have it, I guess."
* ish, I think?
Breaking Bad. From what I've heard also Better Call Saul but I haven't watched it yet.
Hopefully we get more seasons, but if not, I'm glad we got what we got. Everyone associated with making Lower Decks should be proud of what they've accomplished. Their joy and love for the franchise shined through in every episode.
Way back when Discovery first started they were talking about a bunch of shows, with a Section 31 spy drama and a Starfleet Academy show that varied in the telling from a teen comedy to a teen drama. One of the worst received ideas was a sitcom about ensigns for whom the heroics of the senior staff are a barely visible source of terror and hardship.
There's a sizable group that's firmly convinced that watching anything animated after you hit puberty is Just Wrong.
Star Fleet Engineer "that's absurd that won't... wait a minute, have you done this before? Holy shit... no wonder you consoles keep exploding like they're packed with c4!"
"You mean you don't pack explosives into your consoles? My God man, and you call yourself an engineer?!"
Klingons have a game like the dozens, called “what they say”. Actually daring to openly mock a fellow warrior or establish a social pecking order through shit-talking carries a high risk of extemporaneous combat, blood oaths, etc. however if the insult is simply reported like hearsay, everyone can listen and appreciate the cleverness of the game without feeling the need to draw steel. An example:
Kang: Kor, is it true what they say?
Kor: what do they say? (This call and response is a formalism with its own cadence and tone, any Klingon hearing it knows a round of the game is afoot)
Kang: They say, your father is so weak, that before he draws his mek’leth in anger he must meditate like a Vulcan!
Kor: (chuckling, appreciating the joke while showing that it hasn’t touched any nerves) Lies, Kang! Let them say it openly, and they will answer to me! (Another formalism, one of several stock responses).
Kor: But Kang, is it true what they say?
Kang: What do they say?
…and so on, game continues until the blood wine runs out, more blood wine arrives, the warp journey to glorious battle draws near its end, etc.
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"Why...why are there rocks in all these consoles?!" - as every Treky (especially those that watch Junkball) the real nemesis of Starfleet is ROCKS!
It was going great, right up until Quark won the game for all time with "I have come to answer the challenge of D'ghor, son of whatever".
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He calls out Klingons, Vulcans, and gives Sisko a lecture about how Ferengi don't have some of Humanity's horror's in their past (while still being blind to some of the horrors they do have, like their treatment of women, but Earth's history can't exactly claim to be that much better).
The Federation is honestly fortunate he stuck to running a bar.
The clip where he schools the Vulcan on logic came up immediately after that one when searching that clip.
"You would presume to lecture me, a Vulcan, on logic?
"Well, someone has to.
I mean there's a bit of hindsight revisionist history going on here. When the very first trailers hit, the thing kind of looked like Teen Titans Go. That general vibe at the time where we just take an IP, throw out all the fandom and history, and just be irreverent and zany (though not that I'm accusing Go of actually being that). People weren't wrong to have some trepidation. Even then the first season was a little shaky. I think we just got a little lucky that there was actual real Star Trek heart behind the zany. This show could have turned out vastly different.
Or to put it another way, it's the Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine situation all over again. Oh wow it's so flippin' obvious what they're trying to... oh... she can fucking act.
Still my go-to description of it is that it's "Rick and Morty", literally made by a Rick and Morty creator, but with absolutely none of the nihilism of that show. And it works.
The first few episodes also leaned into exactly the kind of humour people were afraid of. They got their shit together pretty quickly though and by the last bit of S1 I think they'd figured it out.
All I want is 6 more seasons and a movie!
Yeah, but there are some people who still refuse to watch it, despite everything good they've heard about it.
Animation stereotyping is absolutely a thing. I'd bet money that some people have only watched the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender series on Netflix, liked it, and still refused to watch the cartoon.
In the end... so what? On one hand it's their loss. On the other... not really? Because there's just so much content out there, I doubt they're personally hurting for something enjoyable to watch for them. All you can do is not allow them to live rent free inside your head.
"I suppose by the transitive property I too must be as Vulcan as a motherf***r."
Noone should ever watch what they don't want to or like. But man, they are missing out on one of the best written, genuinely funny but heart warming shows I have seen recently.
As to the ending of Lower Decks - in the words of one of the first characters in the Star Trek universe: "I wanna stay stay stay stay stay stay...."
I think the obvious thing is that this dumb attitude impacts the financial viability of animated projects, and so we have less of them and they are cancelled more quickly.
it's good but it should have used this for the right era
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Paramount+ is never going to be a thing, though. We are always living on borrowed time. But I agree that we likely could've had more seasons if more people watched it.
I think these attitudes are changing and not slowly though. Millenials and ESPECIALLY Gen Z have grown up with some really high quality animated products. Heck, even GenX saw kind of the real true beginnings of this, with the Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, etc. Even the MCU has animated stuff
I'd say around Batman TAS and was the big turning point. You also had other big hits like X-Men, Spider-Man, and Gargoyles, all of which were serious shows (though ironically, both X-Men and Gargoyles fell victim to having final seasons done with different cheaper, shittier studios that tanked the shows). That success kicked off the Superman series, Justice League, etc, and there was overall a huge upswing in quality cartoons in the late 90s/early 2000s, particularly as Tartakovsky started making series. Bringing the better anime series over from Japan for broadcast TV also started to hit around then and that was a big influence as well. The resulting artistic inspiration has been huge and I'd say the last 15 years or so have seen an explosion in variety plus an overall tendency towards good animation rather than lowest-budget-possible crap, with probably Avatar: The Last Airbender being at the lead of that push.
The core issue is still that aging media executives are idiots and the only animated series they'll accept are mega-hit comedies. All animation is contemptible in their eyes but they'll tolerate a big moneymaker like The Simpsons, any not specifically comedy has to work damned hard to not get shit on though. That environment is always filled with socially conservative idiots at least half a generation behind the times but yeah, the attitudes are shifting, particularly as it begins to trickle through that a good series can make a lifelong fan that will happily come back in twenty years for new stuff.
Shit, we've got X-Men back. Not just as another re-re-rehashed reimagining trying to appeal to tweens, but the original X-Men animated series with the original style and fucking everything. I'd say it's inconceivable but there it is. Existing media executives don't like it, but they recognize animated stuff can draw lots of attention too.