That brought back some fun memories. I never got accused of murder or child molestation like this guy did, but they did tell people that I had stolen the shirts that I printed "SP" on.
However, seeing that bit where they followed him actually put a chill in my spine. I never thought to look for that with those fuckers, but I suppose nothing ever came of it. I'm still here, and I haven't been hassled by the Rome division.
I don't think showing up at a random outing and confronting random people is a particularly intelligent way to deal with them. And it's not any secret that their tactic is to attack the attacker. Hubbard himself instructed them to do that.
Saying that Christianity or--any other mainstream religion--is really alienating groups who have the exact same interests in fighting them as we do.
Most Christian churches do their fucked-up shit right out in the open, where everyone can see it; they generally don't engage in the sort of really subtle character assassination that the Church of Scientology does. They don't control nearly as much of the media, either.
The Church of Scientology is just a really fucked-up cult, and is way more dangerous than any mainstream church you can think of. Their basic practices are hella fucked up, whereas it's mostly the fringes of the other religions that go there.
Saying that Christianity or--any other mainstream religion--is really alienating groups who have the exact same interests in fighting them as we do.
Most Christian churches do their fucked-up shit right out in the open, where everyone can see it; they generally don't engage in the sort of really subtle character assassination that the Church of Scientology does. They don't control nearly as much of the media, either.
The Church of Scientology is just a really fucked-up cult, and is way more dangerous than any mainstream church you can think of. Their basic practices are hella fucked up, whereas it's mostly the fringes of the other religions that go there.
I'm yet to hear of a Christian Church hiring private investigators to dig up dirt and press false charges against their critics....
As I said, Scientology is using the kind of deranged bullshit that the major religions mostly -stopped- doing years ago. They're the yuppie, band geek, and drama dork version of the Jihadist groups or the KKK or the Abortion Bombers.
I fully endorse stomping their asses out. They are, at present, more dangerous than any mainstream religion as represented in the West. Their ideas are no more or less absurd than other religions, but they are much better at being dangerous assholes than the Judaic faiths, right here, right now.
Clear and present danger, as it were.
--
Nexus: You mean specifically this and last century right.
If Scientology is a religion, it's as much a religion as anyone who believes me when I write a bullshit book about how we're all really descended from the ancient Boognish who got really bored of being immortal one day and decided to spice things up by starting the Big Bang. If I hint at some kind of moral code in this fictional book, and even just one person believes in what I wrote as the truth, that's only a religion in the way that Scientology is a "religion". Scientology isn't a fucking religion, it's a bullshit organisation created by a sci-fi author who wanted to make money, and is propagated by those who must thank their lucky stars that people are willing to believe in any old shit, if it offers them something. Christianity is, just as any other true religion, at it's core, about living your life with faith. Scientology is about "improving" yourself by giving the host organisation all your money and taking whatever drugs they prescribe, living a lifestyle that other people decree is good for you. It's about making money. It's a parasitic infection on the face of humanity and I hope it dies a horrible fucking death. God, when people look back on this time in the years to come, they will shake their heads at people's stupidity and gullibility when they read about Scientology.
Good on you, Germany.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
It's too obvious to replace everything you said with references to a major religion and its religious text(s).
--
Anyways, regardless of the status of Scientology, Germany is perfectly justified here. The group is dangerous. Their members should not be trusted near military installations.
It's too obvious to replace everything you said with references to a major religion and its religious text(s).
--
Anyways, regardless of the status of Scientology, Germany is perfectly justified here. The group is dangerous. Their members should not be trusted near military installations.
I don't think you can really compare say, Catholicism, with something as young and material-lite as Scientology, if you're talking about belief. People believe in different deities, yeah, but all the major religions are very similar at their cores - live your life right according to the moral code of your chosen religion. When it comes down to it, that's what it's really about... not what God did when he made the universe, or, as an example, what Boognish did when he started the Big Bang (man, I can start a whole mythos here!).
Edit - Well, at least religions shouldn't be about what God really did that the Old Testament is lying about.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
If you guys really want to debate this, start a new thread. I'm not going to muddle this up with endless lists of horrible shit that older religions have done.
The Church of Scientology is just a really fucked-up cult, and is way more dangerous than any mainstream church you can think of. Their basic practices are hella fucked up, whereas it's mostly the fringes of the other religions that go there.
Dude, Cardinal Law is now advising the pope. Regent U isn't fringe, it's just fucked up. James Dobson is incredibly powerful and influential. Ted Haggard was president of the National Association of Evangelicals- that has about 45,000 churches in it. Look at our president, twice elected. Look at how many people don't buy the theory of evolution.
Maybe I just have a lower threshold for hella fucked up.
If you guys really want to debate this, start a new thread. I'm not going to muddle this up with endless lists of horrible shit that older religions have done.
This is about Cruise-bashing.
Hey, I was just giving examples... I don't want to start any arguments or religious debates (dear God, no - I'm an agnostic myself and don't believe in religion). We're all on the same side here - Scientology is a big load of poo, and Tom Cruise's devotion to it just goes to show how dangerous it can be with people.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
I don't think showing up at a random outing and confronting random people is a particularly intelligent way to deal with them. And it's not any secret that their tactic is to attack the attacker. Hubbard himself instructed them to do that.
Well lets' see, they picket his house and distribute leaflets to all his neighbors telling them that he is a child molester. He can sue them in court, and lose, and spend all his money trying (this is what they want) or he can actively discredit them using their own filthy tactics.
The Church of Scientology is just a really fucked-up cult, and is way more dangerous than any mainstream church you can think of. Their basic practices are hella fucked up, whereas it's mostly the fringes of the other religions that go there.
Dude, Cardinal Law is now advising the pope. Regent U isn't fringe, it's just fucked up. James Dobson is incredibly powerful and influential. Ted Haggard was president of the National Association of Evangelicals- that has about 45,000 churches in it. Look at our president, twice elected. Look at how many people don't buy the theory of evolution.
Maybe I just have a lower threshold for hella fucked up.
You do have a very different threshold, dude.
James Dobson hasn't locked anyone up in a compound and starved them to death. Not lately, not ever. Whereas abortion bombers are at the fringes of the far-right lunatic Christians, the thugs who do the dirty work for Scientologists are taking direct orders from the organization itself.
There is no sane comparison between mainstream religion and Scientology.
There is no sane comparison between mainstream religion and Scientology.
Again, at this rate, we need to take it to another thread.
Because the horrible shit that religions have done can fill fricking libraries.
I think this line of argument is quite pertinent to this thread. Provided we are discussing Scientology as it relates and compares to other religions. Until someone wants to compare Catholicism to Wicca, then you can make a new thread.
Do you want me to start listing six thousand years of religious atrocities, or do you want to define the point of difference between a cult and a religion in terms that encompasses all cults and all religions?
Do you want me to start listing six thousand years of religious atrocities, or do you want to define the point of difference between a cult and a religion in terms that encompasses all cults and all religions?
I already described the qualities of cults and explained how the nasty things that Catholicism did in the past (though very nasty) weren't cult-like and were really much more a product of being a corrupt political entity.
Catholicism is only one example, but it's a very good one for our purpose.
Just because a religion is responsible for terrible things doesn't make them a cult. In the case of Catholicism, the more legit they got the worse they became, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you predicted as happening with nascent religions. The Catholic Church didn't become more enlightened until after they started becoming less and less relevant as a political power entity.
Scientologists are more threatening the more power they gain.
How is that any different?
They're a corrupt political entity, are they not? Becoming worse as their power grows?
A group of people espousing particular views that have no basis in reality?
If you're going to note the pyramid scheme I can happily point to Indulgences.
If you're going to talk about conniving mechanizations, I can point to the political tool of excommunication.
And if I ever suggested the Scientologists would become less an issue over time, I am deeply sorry for that, it is not my belief. They're well on their way towards being as dangerous as Jihadists and the Inquisition and the Crusade-happy popes. They may, after a few hundred years, settle down, but they're a bit more dangerous than people whose greatest weapons were cannons.
I think this news is great cause for joy: a government with the balls to say "You're a bunch of dangerous fucktards, fuck off."
Is political correctness finally dying down? I sure hope so.
And, whether or not Scientology is anything like Christianity was is kind of irrelevant, because you're comparing it to how Christianity was. While they're perhaps not the most popular group these days, they don't respond to criticism violently. Also, Scientologists are fucktards.
About Hubbard: surely if you want to create a new religion (for money or not), there's a smarter way to go about it than telling all and sundry "I'm going to create a religion in order to make lots of money". Seriously, shouldn't he have been telling everyone about the religion he was thinking of, rather than saying how much money it was going to make him?
When I started reading this topic, I told a bunch of friends and family, telling them them part of that first page. Their responses have ranged from "Fuck yeah, Tom Cruise is a piece of shit" to "Fuck yeah, Scientologists are shitheads".
About Hubbard: surely if you want to create a new religion (for money or not), there's a smarter way to go about it than telling all and sundry "I'm going to create a religion in order to make lots of money". Seriously, shouldn't he have been telling everyone about the religion he was thinking of, rather than saying how much money it was going to make him?
Hubbard was banking on the fact that he could put together a combination of mind-numbingly stupid people and evil manipulative bastards so that he could get away with it. And he was right.
Is political correctness finally dying down? I sure hope so.
Please don't use that phrase like that.
Æthelred on
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
What would be really funny is that if Hubbard planned this sort of behavior from the start, sorta like a really condensed, compressed version of the history of Christianity. Turmoiled beginning, overzealous expansion with violent tendences and shady operations... And finally, it all sort of mellows down by the end with a scandal here and a scandal there.
Scientologists are more threatening the more power they gain.
How is that any different?
They're a corrupt political entity, are they not? Becoming worse as their power grows?
A group of people espousing particular views that have no basis in reality?
If you're going to note the pyramid scheme I can happily point to Indulgences.
If you're going to talk about conniving mechanizations, I can point to the political tool of excommunication.
And if I ever suggested the Scientologists would become less an issue over time, I am deeply sorry for that, it is not my belief. They're well on their way towards being as dangerous as Jihadists and the Inquisition and the Crusade-happy popes. They may, after a few hundred years, settle down, but they're a bit more dangerous than people whose greatest weapons were cannons.
--
Tom Cruise is in the clooooooseeeeet.
(Sorry, had to)
Thing is people underestimate the scientologists so much mostly cause thier ideas seem so loony. You mention it ot most folks they'll just crack an olol xenu joke and laugh a bit. Then try telling them scientogly as been accused of intimidation, harassment, murder and attempting to infiltrate the government and they'll just say "what those wackos?"
Thier lack of public acceptance is thier greatest strength cuz everyone thinks they're a joke. They're not.
nexuscrawler on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Thing is people underestimate the scientologists so much mostly cause thier ideas seem so loony. You mention it ot most folks they'll just crack an olol xenu joke and laugh a bit. Then try telling them scientogly as been accused of intimidation, harassment, murder and attempting to infiltrate the government and they'll just say "what those wackos?"
Thier lack of public acceptance is thier greatest strength cuz everyone thinks they're a joke. They're not.
Indeed. Faith is a powerful motivator; it also doesn't get any weaker because it is placed in something unutterably stupid. In fact, it tends to get stronger, especially if the faithful believes it is being persecuted for its faith.
And, being a powerful motivator it can be used to persuade people that pretty much anything is either possible or right, which leads to things like genocide. Scientology is even worse because its belief structure explicitly bans the faithful from seeing the only group of professionals that could possibly help and publicly promotes ideals purpose designed to prevent the unfaithful from caring until it's too late.
So Germany wants to discriminate against a member of a cult religion that is dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, morally vacuous, et al.
That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
So Germany wants to discriminate against a member of a cult religion that is dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, morally vacuous, et al.
That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
The fact that it may not be justified in your case doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of Scientologists.
Do you live in Germany Live? Because if you don't, I can't see what the hell you just said has anything to do with this article or thread whatsoever. The United States and Germany are very, very different from each other.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
So Germany wants to discriminate against a member of a cult religion that is dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, morally vacuous, et al.
That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
The fact that it may not be justified in your case doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of Scientologists.
I see no real justification for it in Tom Cruises case. The worry is that he is somehow going to sneak off set and into some Generals office to photograph documents of troop movements or something? "Stretching the imagination" is a phrase that doesn't even begin to cover it.
edit: Preacher, the USA and Germany are both western countries with laws that protect discrimination of religion. I don't see how you can not see the relevance.
I see no real justification for it in Tom Cruises case. The worry is that he is somehow going to sneak off set and into some Generals office to photograph documents of troop movements or something? "Stretching the imagination" is a phrase that doesn't even begin to cover it.
edit: Preacher, the USA and Germany are both western countries with laws that protect discrimination of religion. I don't see how you can not see the relevance.
If in the next few days Edward Norton was revealed to be an active member of the KKK, and he was scheduled to begin filming a movie about the American Revolution on an American military base, would it be reasonable for them deny them rights to film the movie?
*edit* And once again, since you don't seem to be getting this, Germany considers Scientology a dangerous cult and has classified it as one, which means that Scientology isn't protected by the discrimination laws.
So Germany wants to discriminate against a member of a cult religion that is dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, morally vacuous, et al.
That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
The fact that it may not be justified in your case doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of Scientologists.
I see no real justification for it in Tom Cruises case. The worry is that he is somehow going to sneak off set and into some Generals office to photograph documents of troop movements or something? "Stretching the imagination" is a phrase that doesn't even begin to cover it.
The issue is that he is a member of a group that has actively attempted to subvert the German government. Because of that, they don't want to co-operate. They're not witholding a right that is granted to anyone else.
So Germany wants to discriminate against a member of a cult religion that is dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, morally vacuous, et al.
That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
The fact that it may not be justified in your case doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of Scientologists.
I see no real justification for it in Tom Cruises case. The worry is that he is somehow going to sneak off set and into some Generals office to photograph documents of troop movements or something? "Stretching the imagination" is a phrase that doesn't even begin to cover it.
edit: Preacher, the USA and Germany are both western countries with laws that protect discrimination of religion. I don't see how you can not see the relevance.
But in Germany they don't recognize Scientology as a religion, in fact they see it as a dangerous corporation that has tried to infiltrate top ranks of government before. Cruise isn't dangerous, but he does have an entourage, and I wouldn't put it past his chosen cult to include someone who is more dangerous, kind of trojan horse it.
Besides they aren't preventing him from entering Germany, they are stopping him from filming a movie on federal land, I just don't see something overly oppressive in that action, it's a privledge not a right.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It's a moral stand of the German government's part. They simply don't want any association with a group they've effectively labelled terrorists.
Allowing an American film company to film on government property using an actor who in his private life is a Scientologist means that Germany is "associating with terrorists"?
It's a moral stand of the German government's part. They simply don't want any association with a group they've effectively labelled terrorists.
Allowing an American film company to film on government property using an actor who in his private life is a Scientologist means that Germany is "associating with terrorists"?
SE++ is a few forums down, this is D&D.
A foreign film company to shoot on federal german land, a film company that has an outspoken member of a group that Germany has under watch for it's dangerous actions against that government. This is not some kind of catch all we hate all religions from Germanies part, this is a specific instance against a particular individual that supports a cause that Germany does not.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
It's a moral stand of the German government's part. They simply don't want any association with a group they've effectively labelled terrorists.
Allowing an American film company to film on government property using an actor who in his private life is a Scientologist means that Germany is "associating with terrorists"?
Allowing a member of a terrorist organization to access government property is.
It's a moral stand of the German government's part. They simply don't want any association with a group they've effectively labelled terrorists.
Allowing an American film company to film on government property using an actor who in his private life is a Scientologist means that Germany is "associating with terrorists"?
Let's say the country was Israel and the actor happened to be a member of Hizbullah. I don't think it matters that he hasn't participated in any kidnappings, rocket attacks, or suicide bombings.
The church of Scientology's actions certainly are less violent than Hizbullah, but so far as the organization is regarded as antagonistic and dangerous, I see no compelling reason to treat any members as exempt.
But in Germany they don't recognize Scientology as a religion
Interesting, so since I am an atheist and therefore have no religion, its totally okay for companies to do all sorts of things, like deny me loans, fire me from my job, and block me from entering and participating in private business because they don't like my atheism. Sounds like a great society, once you can abuse all the things you don't like by re-labeling it to take away its protections.
Cruise isn't dangerous, but he does have an entourage, and I wouldn't put it past his chosen cult to include someone who is more dangerous, kind of trojan horse it.
So if Tom Cruise isn't dangerous, but it entourage could be, then why not block his entourage? (hint: The reason they are doing this isn't because they think he is a security threat. Thats a "justification" fabricated after-the-fact)
Besides they aren't preventing him from entering Germany, they are stopping him from filming a movie on federal land, I just don't see something overly oppressive in that action, it's a privledge not a right.
Hey, I'm a restaurant owner and I'm going allow these 30 other people to spend their money and eat, but not this one certain fellow because I hate him and we never get along.
Hey, I'm a restaurant owner and I'm going to allow these 30 other people to spend their money and eat, but not this one certain fellow because he is a Jew.
But in Germany they don't recognize Scientology as a religion
Interesting, so since I am an atheist and therefore have no religion, its totally okay for companies to do all sorts of things, like deny me loans, fire me from my job, and block me from entering and participating in private business because they don't like my atheism. Sounds like a great society, once you can abuse all the things you don't like by re-labeling it to take away its protections.
Cruise isn't dangerous, but he does have an entourage, and I wouldn't put it past his chosen cult to include someone who is more dangerous, kind of trojan horse it.
So if Tom Cruise isn't dangerous, but it entourage could be, then why not block his entourage? (hint: The reason they are doing this isn't because they think he is a security threat. Thats a "justification" fabricated after-the-fact)
Besides they aren't preventing him from entering Germany, they are stopping him from filming a movie on federal land, I just don't see something overly oppressive in that action, it's a privledge not a right.
Hey, I'm a restaurant owner and I'm going allow these 30 other people to spend their money and eat, but not this one certain fellow because I hate him and we never get along.
Hey, I'm a restaurant owner and I'm going to allow these 30 other people to spend their money and eat, but not this one certain fellow because he is a Jew.
Guess which one is illegal.
Why don't you address the rest of us that are refuting your points rather than continuously going after preacher?
Posts
That brought back some fun memories. I never got accused of murder or child molestation like this guy did, but they did tell people that I had stolen the shirts that I printed "SP" on.
However, seeing that bit where they followed him actually put a chill in my spine. I never thought to look for that with those fuckers, but I suppose nothing ever came of it. I'm still here, and I haven't been hassled by the Rome division.
Speaking of, I need to go talk to them.
I don't think showing up at a random outing and confronting random people is a particularly intelligent way to deal with them. And it's not any secret that their tactic is to attack the attacker. Hubbard himself instructed them to do that.
Most Christian churches do their fucked-up shit right out in the open, where everyone can see it; they generally don't engage in the sort of really subtle character assassination that the Church of Scientology does. They don't control nearly as much of the media, either.
The Church of Scientology is just a really fucked-up cult, and is way more dangerous than any mainstream church you can think of. Their basic practices are hella fucked up, whereas it's mostly the fringes of the other religions that go there.
I'm yet to hear of a Christian Church hiring private investigators to dig up dirt and press false charges against their critics....
I fully endorse stomping their asses out. They are, at present, more dangerous than any mainstream religion as represented in the West. Their ideas are no more or less absurd than other religions, but they are much better at being dangerous assholes than the Judaic faiths, right here, right now.
Clear and present danger, as it were.
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Nexus: You mean specifically this and last century right.
The Scientologists use the legal system, private investigators and blatant intimidation to destroy your life
Good on you, Germany.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
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Anyways, regardless of the status of Scientology, Germany is perfectly justified here. The group is dangerous. Their members should not be trusted near military installations.
I don't think you can really compare say, Catholicism, with something as young and material-lite as Scientology, if you're talking about belief. People believe in different deities, yeah, but all the major religions are very similar at their cores - live your life right according to the moral code of your chosen religion. When it comes down to it, that's what it's really about... not what God did when he made the universe, or, as an example, what Boognish did when he started the Big Bang (man, I can start a whole mythos here!).
Edit - Well, at least religions shouldn't be about what God really did that the Old Testament is lying about.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
This is about Cruise-bashing.
Dude, Cardinal Law is now advising the pope. Regent U isn't fringe, it's just fucked up. James Dobson is incredibly powerful and influential. Ted Haggard was president of the National Association of Evangelicals- that has about 45,000 churches in it. Look at our president, twice elected. Look at how many people don't buy the theory of evolution.
Maybe I just have a lower threshold for hella fucked up.
Hey, I was just giving examples... I don't want to start any arguments or religious debates (dear God, no - I'm an agnostic myself and don't believe in religion). We're all on the same side here - Scientology is a big load of poo, and Tom Cruise's devotion to it just goes to show how dangerous it can be with people.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Well lets' see, they picket his house and distribute leaflets to all his neighbors telling them that he is a child molester. He can sue them in court, and lose, and spend all his money trying (this is what they want) or he can actively discredit them using their own filthy tactics.
I vote for the later.
You do have a very different threshold, dude.
James Dobson hasn't locked anyone up in a compound and starved them to death. Not lately, not ever. Whereas abortion bombers are at the fringes of the far-right lunatic Christians, the thugs who do the dirty work for Scientologists are taking direct orders from the organization itself.
There is no sane comparison between mainstream religion and Scientology.
Again, at this rate, we need to take it to another thread.
Because the horrible shit that religions have done can fill fricking libraries.
I think this line of argument is quite pertinent to this thread. Provided we are discussing Scientology as it relates and compares to other religions. Until someone wants to compare Catholicism to Wicca, then you can make a new thread.
Do you want me to start listing six thousand years of religious atrocities, or do you want to define the point of difference between a cult and a religion in terms that encompasses all cults and all religions?
I already described the qualities of cults and explained how the nasty things that Catholicism did in the past (though very nasty) weren't cult-like and were really much more a product of being a corrupt political entity.
Catholicism is only one example, but it's a very good one for our purpose.
Just because a religion is responsible for terrible things doesn't make them a cult. In the case of Catholicism, the more legit they got the worse they became, which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you predicted as happening with nascent religions. The Catholic Church didn't become more enlightened until after they started becoming less and less relevant as a political power entity.
And Tom Cruise did?
How is that any different?
They're a corrupt political entity, are they not? Becoming worse as their power grows?
A group of people espousing particular views that have no basis in reality?
If you're going to note the pyramid scheme I can happily point to Indulgences.
If you're going to talk about conniving mechanizations, I can point to the political tool of excommunication.
And if I ever suggested the Scientologists would become less an issue over time, I am deeply sorry for that, it is not my belief. They're well on their way towards being as dangerous as Jihadists and the Inquisition and the Crusade-happy popes. They may, after a few hundred years, settle down, but they're a bit more dangerous than people whose greatest weapons were cannons.
--
Tom Cruise is in the clooooooseeeeet.
(Sorry, had to)
Is political correctness finally dying down? I sure hope so.
And, whether or not Scientology is anything like Christianity was is kind of irrelevant, because you're comparing it to how Christianity was. While they're perhaps not the most popular group these days, they don't respond to criticism violently. Also, Scientologists are fucktards.
About Hubbard: surely if you want to create a new religion (for money or not), there's a smarter way to go about it than telling all and sundry "I'm going to create a religion in order to make lots of money". Seriously, shouldn't he have been telling everyone about the religion he was thinking of, rather than saying how much money it was going to make him?
When I started reading this topic, I told a bunch of friends and family, telling them them part of that first page. Their responses have ranged from "Fuck yeah, Tom Cruise is a piece of shit" to "Fuck yeah, Scientologists are shitheads".
Hubbard was banking on the fact that he could put together a combination of mind-numbingly stupid people and evil manipulative bastards so that he could get away with it. And he was right.
Please don't use that phrase like that.
Fat chance of that happening.
Thing is people underestimate the scientologists so much mostly cause thier ideas seem so loony. You mention it ot most folks they'll just crack an olol xenu joke and laugh a bit. Then try telling them scientogly as been accused of intimidation, harassment, murder and attempting to infiltrate the government and they'll just say "what those wackos?"
Thier lack of public acceptance is thier greatest strength cuz everyone thinks they're a joke. They're not.
And, being a powerful motivator it can be used to persuade people that pretty much anything is either possible or right, which leads to things like genocide. Scientology is even worse because its belief structure explicitly bans the faithful from seeing the only group of professionals that could possibly help and publicly promotes ideals purpose designed to prevent the unfaithful from caring until it's too late.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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That makes me feel safe, seeing as how I am an activist atheist living in a small community in the reddest state in the union, where a majority of people see me as dangerous, infiltrative, absurd, dogmatic, corrupt, and morally vacuous.
The fact that it may not be justified in your case doesn't mean it isn't justified in the case of Scientologists.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I see no real justification for it in Tom Cruises case. The worry is that he is somehow going to sneak off set and into some Generals office to photograph documents of troop movements or something? "Stretching the imagination" is a phrase that doesn't even begin to cover it.
edit: Preacher, the USA and Germany are both western countries with laws that protect discrimination of religion. I don't see how you can not see the relevance.
If in the next few days Edward Norton was revealed to be an active member of the KKK, and he was scheduled to begin filming a movie about the American Revolution on an American military base, would it be reasonable for them deny them rights to film the movie?
*edit* And once again, since you don't seem to be getting this, Germany considers Scientology a dangerous cult and has classified it as one, which means that Scientology isn't protected by the discrimination laws.
The issue is that he is a member of a group that has actively attempted to subvert the German government. Because of that, they don't want to co-operate. They're not witholding a right that is granted to anyone else.
But in Germany they don't recognize Scientology as a religion, in fact they see it as a dangerous corporation that has tried to infiltrate top ranks of government before. Cruise isn't dangerous, but he does have an entourage, and I wouldn't put it past his chosen cult to include someone who is more dangerous, kind of trojan horse it.
Besides they aren't preventing him from entering Germany, they are stopping him from filming a movie on federal land, I just don't see something overly oppressive in that action, it's a privledge not a right.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Allowing an American film company to film on government property using an actor who in his private life is a Scientologist means that Germany is "associating with terrorists"?
SE++ is a few forums down, this is D&D.
A foreign film company to shoot on federal german land, a film company that has an outspoken member of a group that Germany has under watch for it's dangerous actions against that government. This is not some kind of catch all we hate all religions from Germanies part, this is a specific instance against a particular individual that supports a cause that Germany does not.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Allowing a member of a terrorist organization to access government property is.
Let's say the country was Israel and the actor happened to be a member of Hizbullah. I don't think it matters that he hasn't participated in any kidnappings, rocket attacks, or suicide bombings.
The church of Scientology's actions certainly are less violent than Hizbullah, but so far as the organization is regarded as antagonistic and dangerous, I see no compelling reason to treat any members as exempt.
So if Tom Cruise isn't dangerous, but it entourage could be, then why not block his entourage? (hint: The reason they are doing this isn't because they think he is a security threat. Thats a "justification" fabricated after-the-fact)
Why don't you address the rest of us that are refuting your points rather than continuously going after preacher?