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Filming of Tom Cruise movie banned in Germany
Kaputa
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http://imdb.com/news/wenn/2007-06-26/
Personally, I think stuff like this is bullshit. I realize Germany's censorship laws aren't the same as ours, and that this is probably constitutionally acceptable there, but they're essentially saying "We aren't fans of this religion, so it's okay to discriminate against it." I'm not a fan of Scientology any more than the rest of the world, but discrimination based on religion shouldn't be any more acceptable in this scenario than it would if they banned any movie directed by Christians.
What do you guys think? Is this as ethically unjustifiable as I perceive it to be?
Germany has banned filming of Tom Cruise's new movie at its military bases because they object to the actor's Scientology religion. Scientology is not recognized as a church by the German government, who claim the controversial religion is a "money-making cult." Cruise is set to begin filming Valkyrie in Germany this summer, in which he plays Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg, leader of an unsuccessful plot to kill Adolf Hitler during World War II. Harald Kammerbauer, spokesman for the country's Defense Ministry, says, "(Producers) will not be allowed to film at German military sites if Count Stauffenberg is played by Tom Cruise, who has publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult. In general, the Bundeswehr (German military) has a special interest in the serious and authentic portrayal of the events of July 20, 1944 and Stauffenberg's person."
Personally, I think stuff like this is bullshit. I realize Germany's censorship laws aren't the same as ours, and that this is probably constitutionally acceptable there, but they're essentially saying "We aren't fans of this religion, so it's okay to discriminate against it." I'm not a fan of Scientology any more than the rest of the world, but discrimination based on religion shouldn't be any more acceptable in this scenario than it would if they banned any movie directed by Christians.
What do you guys think? Is this as ethically unjustifiable as I perceive it to be?
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Is it right? That's debatable, but I do think the point should be made that anyone who is outspoken about their beliefs should be willing to face the consequences of that.
Either way, fuck Tom Cruise and his extra-retarded religion.
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How is Scientology not a religion? You could argue that it's not a good religion, but it's still a religion, even if it exploits its followers financially.
And the difference between a cult and a religion is essentially how many people agree with it. Discriminating against a cult is no more justifiable than discriminating against a major religion.
I don't see what the deal is here.
Fuck Germany and its discrimination.
Tom Cruises religion means nothing to me nor should it to anyone else.
But he isn't.
So it's fine.
It's just sort of annoying that it's getting in the way of a film.
...money making cult?
I mean it's gotta be like a home away from home.
If you can, find the only recorded interview with L. Ron Hubbard. It's an interesting video, and pretty hilarious to boot.
As far as I know they specifically go out to recruit celebrities, and give them a completely different experience and version of Scientology than those who follow the celebrities in will be apart of.
No; they're totally different. An commercial organisation that decides to call itself a religion isn't a religion. When the founder of your 'religion' is on record saying "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." then DING DING DING we've found a cult. If Methodists extorted money from their followers and drove people to suicide then I'd damn well be down with blocking them at every step as well.
Germany doesn't want to be associated with a whacko cultist celebrity. The German government has every right to make this decision.
That comment made me laugh.
Regardless, the problem is, yes, Scientology is a religion, and it's just as bullshit filled as the rest of them, and I don't see any reason why it deserves any particular discrimination.
The leadership is the issue to me. There's a serious difference between a religion, where the people at the top believe it to be true, and a cult, where the people at the top know it's all a pack of lies.
I don't think you can make a substantive case either way. Did Jerry Falwell believe his own bullshit or not? Chris Hitchens didn't think so. I don't know for certain. I don't see the justification here. Do you think Tom Cruise doesn't believe that the tenets of Scientology are true?
It should be able to be judged, in the same way as Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc. The problem I have here isn't people negatively judging the religion.
Yes, it is. In your country. Not over here.
It is classified as a chiefly money oriented venture and not a church.
Also you guys shoul hear what Stauffenbergs son has to say about Cruise playing his father (hint: it's not very positive).
Germany's decision is stupid and loony.
Basically, everyone involved in this story is stupid and deserves to implode under the weight of said stupidity.
They're merely not allowing their facilities to be used for the film because they are concerned with how Claus von Stauffenberg, a very important figure in German history, will be portrayed my Tom Cruise.
How would people react if a foreign company was going to produce a film about George Washington with a highly controversial personality in the title role?
Would it be "censorship" for West Point to deny the film production access to its grounds?
Their justification for not allowing them to use their facilities is his religion. People would bitch endlessly if, say, an outspoken Muslim wanted to make a film and the government said "No, you can't film at these facilities, because you're a Muslim."
Okay. I think it's stupid that Germany's government arbitrarily decides which religions are officially "recognized."
Your Government does it too. You know that, right?
His religion browbeats and frames people in attempts to drive them to suicide, and has infiltrated the US government to try and, IIRC, throw a court case.
I wouldn't want them anywhere near my country either, but we appear to be stuck with the morons. :P
It's still wrong; it's only banned from filming at military bases.
The US military only tends to allow filming at military sites and use of official vehicles etc if the film portrays war in a good light. Is that okay? And like Hoz said, if that Muslim was an extremist - which all Scientologists by definition are - then you can be damn sure that he wouldn't be allowed to film at West Point.
The thing I thought was interesting was that they had some German MP on BBC World Service this morning and she seemed to be saying that this was more just that they don't let people film on military locations often, like apparently they wouldn't let Spielberg film at the Reichstag for Schindler's List or whatever. She did point out specifically that they were perfectly free to set up on a soundstage. I don't know how accurate that is though, since she probably wasn't directly involved.
And I don't think something's a religion if you have to pay to progress in it. I mean, monetary contributions are encouraged in most religions, but it's not like "Oh man, you're never going to believe what happens to Jesus next. But I can't tell you anything more until you cough up a couple thousand bucks for this seminar we're having."