Xorn was a Skrull all along! (Retcon Thread)
Skullo
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From Wikipedia:
Retroactive continuity or retcon is the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction. The change itself is referred to as a "retcon", and the act of writing and publishing a retcon is called "retconning". Retconning can be done either on purpose, or accidentally, wherein a break in continuity is not noticed until later and is then corrected by later writers or editors.
Retcons are common in comic books, especially those of large publishing houses such as Marvel Comics and DC Comics, because of the lengthy history of many series and the number of independent authors contributing to their development; this is the context in which the term was coined.
Retcons, as anyone who would frequent this forum knows, happen all the time. They can range from anywhere to essential things to fix a continuity screw up, undoing something that outraged the fans, to unwanted or completely unnecessary. Generally, though, they are handled pretty poorly and leave people confused.
So what's your least favorite retcon? Are there any retcon's you're all for? How would YOU have handled something? Alternatively, with all the recent events and what not, is there anything you predict will be retconned in the near future? I figured this could generate some interesting discussion.
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I am a freaking nerd.
I'm also a fan of the "Barry Allen is the source of his own powers" retcon, though that's of dubious continuity at this point.
Recently? I fully expect Bart Allen's death to be heavily retconned within the next few years, including a probable return to life. And someone will (hopefully) retcon the Sins Past retcon sooner or later.
One example of fixing a whole bunch of retcons can be seen with Hawkman. Not only did Johns and Robinson fix his muddled past, but did in a way that made perfect sense to anyone.
Brava I say. Brava.
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But hey, compared to her buddy Maxwell Lord, former benevolent schemer turned friend-murdering head of a covert black-ops organization, she got off light.
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in a retcon discussion thread.
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Surprise us.
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I remember reading the big Deathstroke fight before I really knew anything about a lot of the character's involved, and thought it was really cool. Fast forward to my first semester of college, where I took a Writing Seminar style class on Graphic Novels and Comics. For one of the analysis papers, IDENTITY CRISIS was a choice. So I'm like "Hey, I remember that fight scene. I'll read this."
The first page of the paper was just a big D : face. (And the professor agreed!)
Gwen & Norman? WTF?
SBP reality punches? LAME.
However, inventing a plot line to explain something in a past story can be cool. Parallax is an entity of living fear who drove Jordan crazy? Awesome.
It's all in the context, and the actual result for me.
Aspects of his death have been retconned, though. When he died in "Crisis" that was it, but a few years later it was retconned in that he had run so fast he travelled back in time as lightning and gave himself powers. I like the idea, but it's status in continuity has been sort of up in the air ever since the Speed Force was retconned in.
His death may always stay the same, but what followed it seems to be pretty much fair game for retconning.
EDIT: After writing that up I suddenly realize you may have just been responding to the original post rather than my post. Shit.
I also sympathize with Marvel's reasons for the whole Xorn thing. They felt that a lot fan's wouldn't appreciate Morrison's handling of Magneto, that it betrayed the whole 'villian you can sympathize with' angle they were pushing for the character. Plus, you know, he died. Can't have that. So yeah, I understand why they did it.
But really, did it have to be handled so POORLY? How many writers tackled it and continued to build on it? In my opinion, it could have been handled really simply:
Magneto's abusing KICK. He snaps. Theres the whole Xorn/noble aspect of his personality, and the whole crazy human-death-camp side. So, you acknowledge that this happens, and have magneto disappear for a while, possibly showing that he's trying to reconcile for his actions. You could easily handle his beheading by saying Xavier did some pyschic influence, wolverine only thinks he beheaded him, etc. Wouldn't be the first time Xavier helped out Eric. Really, it seems pretty easy.
And Sins Past. I can't honestly sit down and imagine some editor being like "This is a great idea. I LOVE it." The only good thing to come out of that was I returned the trade as a "christmas gift" and got Animal Man out of it.
It was done right, yos.
I think most retcons are godawful attempts to force continuity to bend in a way that'll allow the author to write whatever story they want. Let's run down a list real quick, just off the top of my head.
-Yellow fear bug!
-Arisia isn't really a teenager, she just looks like it, so Hal Jordan can fuck her guilt free
-Yeah so Bruce Wayne has this old friend named Tommy Elliot..
-Norman Osborn fucked Gwen Stacy and had super goblin kids
-Aunt May didn't die, it was just an actress!
-Guy Gardner's a Vuldariwhat?
-Linda Danvers who?
-Vic Sage developing cancer. Smoking for a month will do that to you.
And so on.
But hey, I liked the reveal in GLA that they had an unrevealed past member, Jean Lorraine, and the idea that Spider-Man's black suit was actually A) a symbiote and
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Dunno. I just used it for the title because of all the Skrullage going down in NA. Catchy Advertising.
I didn't really follow along with 52, just read the spoilers back in that big thread (which in hindsight I regret), but if I remember correctly did they actually show him die/his body? Didn't they just hand Montoya his hat and that was it?
In a few years when Vic Sage is the next 'old' character they want back from the dead I can see them handling it like it was just an act/he was putting Montoya through a test or something.
Man they should do that NOW.
No they actually showed him in the final stages of death until he finally croaked.
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Vic's a good actor?
: (
Yeah, he took it to the limit.
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"FEAR BUG DID IT"
would be better.
And for the record I liked the fear bug.
Although, I agree, 'Fear Bug Did It!' would make a good title.
Edit: God I am all about posting incomplete thoughts today.
Seriously, did noone else see this?
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I'd like to retcon that.
We never saw Bucky actually die, just flashbacks of Cap see ing him still on the plane wing before it went boom far off, according to Brubaker, so its more like Marvel merely assumed he was dead.
Now worst retcon ever?
-Byrne writes Reed saving Galactus because he cant let a being die.
-Galactus goes on to eat the Skrull throne world.
-Reed is put on trial, and his defense? The Watcher and Odin say that Galactus should be kept alive for a race to grow strong enough to defeat him (didnt humans just do that?)
-That left such a bad aftertaste, that one of the first editorial tasks after Byrne got the boot was to write some storyline on how some uber-evil would rise if we were to ever kill Galactus, and that Reed somehow knew that, according to his son. O_o
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I felt like Hal, pre-Rebirth, was an incredible hero who did great things, went apeshit after a tragedy in his life, snapped, became one of the most powerful villains ever, and then, at the end, gave up his life in a heroic attempt to save the solar system. Rebirth essentially erases everything after "did great things", saying "oh, it wasn't really him".
Don't get me wrong, I think that "Emerald Twilight" was a pretty bad, ham-fisted story. I'm not convinced that Hal would do what he did, regardless of how mad with grief he got. Twilight's Hal is pretty damn Skrully. Everything after that, though - becoming a villain, and then proving that deep inside he's still a hero - I thought was pretty good. Sure, fairly cliched, but still pretty interesting (and, most important, dynamic). And then Rebirth just completely erased that. Whatever ambiguity there may have been about Hal - I'd even say "depth", maybe - was erased: he was a hero, always. Comic book characters very rarely get a chance to change in any meaningful way, and this was Hal's opportunity. Rebirth undid that.
I was under the impression that most people felt roughly the same way, but I guess it wasn't really based on anything.
P.S. Having said that, I like the idea of Parallax/fear being the yellow impurity, and Parallax's current place in the DCU. I just wish that he and Hal weren't connected the way they are.
his whole priest dealie made him MORE interesting (especially when a priest gets hit on by mutant hookers)
"demon child, what are you talking about?" would be satisfying for me
Completley ruined the character.
The only retcons I really object to are the ones that keep being stupid month after month. Xorneto, for instance. Marvel just brought back Magneto AND Xorn, farted about for months on end without an explanation beyond 'Xorn wasn't him' while readers got increasingly impatient, and then, years later, let Bendis clean it up because no-one else could be arsed. Just incompetent editing all round.
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I would be all for bringing Stephanie Brown back to life/making it so she was never actually dead.
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Retcon I would be down for? I don't know. There are a ton of stories that I thought were boring or worthless but I don't know how you could write them out of existance. I think a Skrull retcon as to why the Marvel Universe has been rertarded for the last year an a half is a dream come true.
at this point the only things that CAN happen to the character is put him in situations to deal with, but avoiding his past back story removes his entire reasoning of why he acts the way he acts.
they did the same thing with scott. pretty boy teachers pet. you can only go so far. sexually suppressed man, mind affair with blond cooch? now leather wearing badass, theres a character with room to grow