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I must be psychic, I predicted that would happen. People who jump to conclusions are silly.
Honestly, I don't particularly think that any of the things you listed are good explanations for weird stuff, I think a lot of them pay no heed whatsoever to religiosity, need to believe or plain grifting issues with believing such stuff, and I think many of the people who believe them are delusional. Personally I think some weird stuff happens, but who the fuck knows what it really is.
But.
I'm not nearly so arrogant (or badly educated in the ways of science) as to assume there are things we don't understand or haven't discovered yet or that we have all the correct explanations for things that we think we know at the moment; I know there are things I don't know, and I know there are people who know some of the things I don't know; and I have no qualms in accepting that since any of the above may cross paths, it's quite possible that some of the above phenomona may indeed be true.
So, we know who does and does not believe in ghosts.
Does everyone here watch the show? They have some fairly creepy ones, and a lot of episodes where nothing really happens. The ones involving military bases or ships always seem to get good footage or EVP.
Related to my last post, sort of. The St Augustine lighthouse episode was flat out freaky.
I must be psychic, I predicted that would happen. People who jump to conclusions are silly.
Honestly, I don't particularly think that any of the things you listed are good explanations for weird stuff, I think a lot of them pay no heed whatsoever to religiosity, need to believe or plain grifting issues with believing such stuff, and I think many of the people who believe them are delusional. Personally I think some weird stuff happens, but who the fuck knows what it really is.
But.
I'm not nearly so arrogant (or badly educated in the ways of science) as to assume there are things we don't understand or haven't discovered yet or that we have all the correct explanations for things that we think we know at the moment; I know there are things I don't know, and I know there are people who know some of the things I don't know; and I have no qualms in accepting that since any of the above may cross paths, it's quite possible that some of the above phenomona may indeed be true.
Apparently you know better.
blah blah blah
It's always the same shit. "Oh don't be arrogant and assume we know everything," etc etc.
OBVIOUSLY I'm not going to assume we know everything. Obviously I'm not going to pretend to know every truth. Anyone with a half a goddamn brain acknowledges human ignorance.
That is not a fucking license to believe in childish nonsense because lots of other people do. Truth is not a democracy. The fact is that there are explanations for most of this bullshit, plenty of explanations, and claiming that they are the spirits of the dead returned to life or "energy caught in a flux" or beings from another universe temporarily flickering over the veil is magnitudes less convincing than the idea that maybe, just maybe, there was a breeze that slammed your door or a smudge on your camera lens or you're so desperate to believe in something exciting to break the monotony of your horrible grinding office-slug life that you'll cling to whatever fairy tale you can prop up with a rickety set of fragile explanations, no matter how ridiculously absurd, and convince yourself that there is something weird going on.
That is not a fucking license to believe in childish nonsense because lots of other people do. Truth is not a democracy. The fact is that there are explanations for most of this bullshit, plenty of explanations, and claiming that they are the spirits of the dead returned to life or "energy caught in a flux" or beings from another universe temporarily flickering over the veil is magnitudes less convincing than the idea that maybe, just maybe, there was a breeze that slammed your door or a smudge on your camera lens or you're so desperate to believe in something exciting to break the monotony of your horrible grinding office-slug life that you'll cling to whatever fairy tale you can prop up with a rickety set of fragile explanations, no matter how ridiculously absurd, and convince yourself that there is something weird going on.
Fair enough, exactly the point I made in fact. But you are ignoring the much rarer incidents of truely bizarre shit which goes totally beyond coincidence, self-delusion or accident being an adequate explanation. Those are the interesting ones.
That is not a fucking license to believe in childish nonsense because lots of other people do. Truth is not a democracy. The fact is that there are explanations for most of this bullshit, plenty of explanations, and claiming that they are the spirits of the dead returned to life or "energy caught in a flux" or beings from another universe temporarily flickering over the veil is magnitudes less convincing than the idea that maybe, just maybe, there was a breeze that slammed your door or a smudge on your camera lens or you're so desperate to believe in something exciting to break the monotony of your horrible grinding office-slug life that you'll cling to whatever fairy tale you can prop up with a rickety set of fragile explanations, no matter how ridiculously absurd, and convince yourself that there is something weird going on.
Fair enough, exactly the point I made in fact. But you are ignoring the much rarer incidents of truely bizarre shit which goes totally beyond coincidence, self-delusion or accident being an adequate explanation. Those are the interesting ones.
And we all love those, most assuredly
However I rather suspect such things get lumped into the "ghost" category because people love their ghosts even more
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
Scientific Ghost Hunters basically, rather than medium ones who just feel the presence.
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
Scientific Ghost Hunters basically, rather than medium ones who just feel the presence.
Oh come on - those guys are completely credulous, and always have some stupid EVP or grainy video footage to show at the end of their "investigation," and several of them will attest to "feeling chills" and "electric shocks" and "feelings of dread" or whatever.
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
Scientific Ghost Hunters basically, rather than medium ones who just feel the presence.
Oh come on - those guys are completely credulous, and always have some stupid EVP or grainy video footage to show at the end of their "investigation," and several of them will attest to "feeling chills" and "electric shocks" and "feelings of dread" or whatever.
They're like the opposite of "scientific".
They never use their feelings as actual evidence. If the EVP or the video can't be explained, they have to show it. Nine times out of ten they debunk the video footage they get. They have never simply presented their findings before making sure there are no other explanations.
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
In the first season, only 25% of all investigated locations were deemed “hauntedâ€. The numbers went up, however, in the second season when 51.22% of the locations were haunted.
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
In the first season, only 25% of all investigated locations were deemed “hauntedâ€. The numbers went up, however, in the second season when 51.22% of the locations were haunted.
25%/=.01%
Yep, when going by memory. I really didn't think that sort of thing would be tracked. Cool site too.
The second season jump makes sense too; they started getiing offers to go to more well known locations.
Ghosts or no I think it's kinda fun to visit places with legends and history to them. Like when I lived in rural NJ there were tons of weird places like that. there used to be lots mining and farming in areas that are now more or less forgotten. There was one fully intact(it's since been bulldozed) train station with several buildings in the middle fo nowhere and only winding dirt paths where the train tracks used to be.
I am a pretty firm believer in ghosts. I feel its in the same realm that aliens are probably out there. No reason to make a gigantic ass universe and not have weird shit happening. So I feel if aliens are real, then ghosts certainly could be as well.
Besides, I have had my own personal experiences enough to justify my belief.
So if a ghost fought an alien who would win?
Easy, the guy who has the Klingon Disruptor.
precisionk on
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
My house is supposed to be haunted. Apparently two siblings (brother/sister) lived here after their parents passed away and the brother started going a bit weird, and they tried all sorts of things and eventually did electroshock therapy on the guy, and he came back even worse (no shit). His ghost haunts the house, or something. It certainly doesn't help that the woman who lived here before us was fucking batshit crazy and had this scary untamed garden full of wild plants and stuff.
The Cheese on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Ghosts or no I think it's kinda fun to visit places with legends and history to them. Like when I lived in rural NJ there were tons of weird places like that. there used to be lots mining and farming in areas that are now more or less forgotten. There was one fully intact(it's since been bulldozed) train station with several buildings in the middle fo nowhere and only winding dirt paths where the train tracks used to be.
Weird NJ olol.
Clinton Road is supposed to be all spooky and shit. I went there, we got out of the car for five minute, stupid friend left his car doors open. we got back in... MASSIVE MOTHERFUCKING BUGS on the windshield and in the back seat. most freaked out I've ever been riding home. mid drive said stupid friend pulls one out of his hair and quietly throws it out the window. ugh.
Ghosts or no I think it's kinda fun to visit places with legends and history to them. Like when I lived in rural NJ there were tons of weird places like that. there used to be lots mining and farming in areas that are now more or less forgotten. There was one fully intact(it's since been bulldozed) train station with several buildings in the middle fo nowhere and only winding dirt paths where the train tracks used to be.
Weird NJ olol.
Clinton Road is supposed to be all spooky and shit. I went there, we got out of the car for five minute, stupid friend left his car doors open. we got back in... MASSIVE MOTHERFUCKING BUGS on the windshield and in the back seat. most freaked out I've ever been riding home. mid drive said stupid friend pulls one out of his hair and quietly throws it out the window. ugh.
Wasn't Clinton's Road but one with a similar reputation out in Sussex.
Our famous Weird NJ entry was actually 100% true: Wavin' Willy. He was this old handicapped guy who literally sat out in his front yard in a folding chair virtually every single day and waved at people driving by his house for 40 YEARS.
I don't believe in a supernatural afterlife, but I'm not entirely convinced that there isn't -something- like ghosts in this world, like "imprinted consciousness" or something like that. Mostly, I find it impossible to rule out every single sighting as a person either lying or fooling themselves, since there have been billions recorded...
Man, people need to understand some basic shit right here.
If you make a claim that defies logic, established scientific theories and laws, and just about all scientific oberservation that came before you, you better have more hard fucking evidence than you know what to do with. And even then, people will still be skeptical, as well they should, until that evidence can be confirmed by others.
It's not enough to say "Well, you can't disprove it." No, we can't. Nor can we disprove the idea that we're all in some Cartesian fantasy-land controlled by a malevolant demon. But you know what? The burden of proof is on the person whose claims defy all evidence and reason, not the person who believes that what has been observed is, in fact, reality.
Man, people need to understand some basic shit right here.
If you make a claim that defies logic, established scientific theories and laws, and just about all scientific oberservation that came before you, you better have more hard fucking evidence than you know what to do with. And even then, people will still be skeptical, as well they should, until that evidence can be confirmed by others.
It's not enough to say "Well, you can't disprove it." No, we can't. Nor can we disprove the idea that we're all in some Cartesian fantasy-land controlled by a malevolant demon. But you know what? The burden of proof is on the person whose claims defy all evidence and reason, not the person who believes that what has been observed is, in fact, reality.
While I don't believe in the existence of ghosts, the claim that ghosts exist does not "defy all evidence." Reason, maybe, and I'm not even going to touch on that, but not "evidence." The reason the "ghosts exist" belief is even slightly credible is that there is zero evidence to fully contradict the belief.
Man, people need to understand some basic shit right here.
If you make a claim that defies logic, established scientific theories and laws, and just about all scientific oberservation that came before you, you better have more hard fucking evidence than you know what to do with. And even then, people will still be skeptical, as well they should, until that evidence can be confirmed by others.
It's not enough to say "Well, you can't disprove it." No, we can't. Nor can we disprove the idea that we're all in some Cartesian fantasy-land controlled by a malevolant demon. But you know what? The burden of proof is on the person whose claims defy all evidence and reason, not the person who believes that what has been observed is, in fact, reality.
While I don't believe in the existence of ghosts, the claim that ghosts exist does not "defy all evidence." Reason, maybe, and I'm not even going to touch on that, but not "evidence." The reason the "ghosts exist" belief is even slightly credible is that there is zero evidence to fully contradict the belief.
What is the evidence for ghosts?
*crickets chirp*
Ok, so what's the evidence against ghosts?
The entirety of the scientific body of knowledge in the last 400 years.
Care to explain more fully how ghosts don't defy all evidence? Oh, and watch out, because at the very end you said
zero evidence to fully contradict the belief
which is a nonsensical statement, as one cannot fully contradict a supernatural claim. The burden of proof lies on the claimant, not on us to "completely contradict" their claim.
Seriously, Drez, what are you smoking? It is pot? Because then I would totally not think any less of you, because pot is a wonderful, wonderful thing, even if it makes you say stupid things.
And, Drez, as for "evidence against ghosts" -- just off the very top of my head I can think of the ever-increasing mountains of evidence that human consciousness is what happens in your brain. No soul and all that.
Oh, and the whole idea of an afterlife is pretty silly, too, seeing as how it's entirely unobservable speculation that, depending on your personal interpretation, may or may not defy a fuck-ton of physical laws.
I had a whole bunch of responses written up, but I've deleted them; I'm not going to get pulled into another debate about agnosticism here. They are fruitless.
Ghosts? Come the fuck on. I bet some of the people who suport the possibility of ghosts in this thread are some of the same people who shoot down the idea of god. This is the stuff of fiction. Just because there are billions of people who believe in god doesnt make him real, just because thousands have claimed to be abducted doesnt make aliens real, and just because there are millions of accounts of ghost sightings and encounters doesnt make ghosts real, for god fucking sake.
I had a whole bunch of responses written up, but I've deleted them; I'm not going to get pulled into another debate about agnosticism here. They are fruitless.
Ghosts? Come the fuck on. I bet some of the people who suport the possibility of ghosts in this thread are some of the same people who shoot down the idea of god. This is the stuff of fiction. Just because there are billions of people who believe in god doesnt make him real, just because thousands have claimed to be abducted doesnt make aliens real, and just because there are millions of accounts of ghost sightings and encounters doesnt make ghosts real, for god fucking sake.
Thanks for clearing that up, VBakes. I wasn't sure what to believe until you just cleared up the whole god/aliens/ghost thing for me.
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I must be psychic, I predicted that would happen. People who jump to conclusions are silly.
Honestly, I don't particularly think that any of the things you listed are good explanations for weird stuff, I think a lot of them pay no heed whatsoever to religiosity, need to believe or plain grifting issues with believing such stuff, and I think many of the people who believe them are delusional. Personally I think some weird stuff happens, but who the fuck knows what it really is.
But.
I'm not nearly so arrogant (or badly educated in the ways of science) as to assume there are things we don't understand or haven't discovered yet or that we have all the correct explanations for things that we think we know at the moment; I know there are things I don't know, and I know there are people who know some of the things I don't know; and I have no qualms in accepting that since any of the above may cross paths, it's quite possible that some of the above phenomona may indeed be true.
Apparently you know better.
Should have of course read: there aren't things etc
It's incredibly fucking annoying.
Does everyone here watch the show? They have some fairly creepy ones, and a lot of episodes where nothing really happens. The ones involving military bases or ships always seem to get good footage or EVP.
Related to my last post, sort of. The St Augustine lighthouse episode was flat out freaky.
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blah blah blah
It's always the same shit. "Oh don't be arrogant and assume we know everything," etc etc.
OBVIOUSLY I'm not going to assume we know everything. Obviously I'm not going to pretend to know every truth. Anyone with a half a goddamn brain acknowledges human ignorance.
That is not a fucking license to believe in childish nonsense because lots of other people do. Truth is not a democracy. The fact is that there are explanations for most of this bullshit, plenty of explanations, and claiming that they are the spirits of the dead returned to life or "energy caught in a flux" or beings from another universe temporarily flickering over the veil is magnitudes less convincing than the idea that maybe, just maybe, there was a breeze that slammed your door or a smudge on your camera lens or you're so desperate to believe in something exciting to break the monotony of your horrible grinding office-slug life that you'll cling to whatever fairy tale you can prop up with a rickety set of fragile explanations, no matter how ridiculously absurd, and convince yourself that there is something weird going on.
Fair enough, exactly the point I made in fact. But you are ignoring the much rarer incidents of truely bizarre shit which goes totally beyond coincidence, self-delusion or accident being an adequate explanation. Those are the interesting ones.
And we all love those, most assuredly
However I rather suspect such things get lumped into the "ghost" category because people love their ghosts even more
I have never seen the particular show mentioned in the OP however, so I don't know what kind of stuff they approach
They go places people claim are haunted and try to debunk what they can. If you say your door slams shut for no reason, they want to show you why. They debunk 99.99% of the things people thought were caused by paranormal means. But there is the occassional .01% they experience that really can't be easily explained.
Scientific Ghost Hunters basically, rather than medium ones who just feel the presence.
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Live: Kayle Solo
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Oh come on - those guys are completely credulous, and always have some stupid EVP or grainy video footage to show at the end of their "investigation," and several of them will attest to "feeling chills" and "electric shocks" and "feelings of dread" or whatever.
They're like the opposite of "scientific".
And then tries to explain it.
Wait I know this one. What is: misscientific?
They never use their feelings as actual evidence. If the EVP or the video can't be explained, they have to show it. Nine times out of ten they debunk the video footage they get. They have never simply presented their findings before making sure there are no other explanations.
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http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-08-10.html 25%/=.01%
Yep, when going by memory. I really didn't think that sort of thing would be tracked. Cool site too.
The second season jump makes sense too; they started getiing offers to go to more well known locations.
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it's tv. never ever believe the tv.
ever.
Also, season one had 16 investiagations, while season two had twice as many coming in at 41 investigations.
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Easy, the guy who has the Klingon Disruptor.
The larger sample size would predict a drop in percentages, not an increase.
Weird NJ olol.
Clinton Road is supposed to be all spooky and shit. I went there, we got out of the car for five minute, stupid friend left his car doors open. we got back in... MASSIVE MOTHERFUCKING BUGS on the windshield and in the back seat. most freaked out I've ever been riding home. mid drive said stupid friend pulls one out of his hair and quietly throws it out the window. ugh.
Wasn't Clinton's Road but one with a similar reputation out in Sussex.
Our famous Weird NJ entry was actually 100% true: Wavin' Willy. He was this old handicapped guy who literally sat out in his front yard in a folding chair virtually every single day and waved at people driving by his house for 40 YEARS.
You're not the ghostologist here.
One ate the sleeve of my shirt.
Seriously.
http://thornsbook.com online novel
If you make a claim that defies logic, established scientific theories and laws, and just about all scientific oberservation that came before you, you better have more hard fucking evidence than you know what to do with. And even then, people will still be skeptical, as well they should, until that evidence can be confirmed by others.
It's not enough to say "Well, you can't disprove it." No, we can't. Nor can we disprove the idea that we're all in some Cartesian fantasy-land controlled by a malevolant demon. But you know what? The burden of proof is on the person whose claims defy all evidence and reason, not the person who believes that what has been observed is, in fact, reality.
While I don't believe in the existence of ghosts, the claim that ghosts exist does not "defy all evidence." Reason, maybe, and I'm not even going to touch on that, but not "evidence." The reason the "ghosts exist" belief is even slightly credible is that there is zero evidence to fully contradict the belief.
What is the evidence for ghosts?
*crickets chirp*
Ok, so what's the evidence against ghosts?
The entirety of the scientific body of knowledge in the last 400 years.
Care to explain more fully how ghosts don't defy all evidence? Oh, and watch out, because at the very end you said
which is a nonsensical statement, as one cannot fully contradict a supernatural claim. The burden of proof lies on the claimant, not on us to "completely contradict" their claim.
And, Drez, as for "evidence against ghosts" -- just off the very top of my head I can think of the ever-increasing mountains of evidence that human consciousness is what happens in your brain. No soul and all that.
Oh, and the whole idea of an afterlife is pretty silly, too, seeing as how it's entirely unobservable speculation that, depending on your personal interpretation, may or may not defy a fuck-ton of physical laws.
you're fruitless
Thanks for clearing that up, VBakes. I wasn't sure what to believe until you just cleared up the whole god/aliens/ghost thing for me.
Yes, they can, and they probably are, for a host of reasons.