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The Senator Larry Craig's Guide to Bathroom Erotica
I reckon everyone has seen it thus far; the images, the police report, the trivializing of what subtle, homosexual innuendo goes into the adjusting of ones feet whilst having a bowel movement.
So WTF? Is it really newsworthy? How does this do anything but emberass and old man and his family? OR is it true journalism in the sense that Craig has gone on the record bashing homosexuality during his time in Congress?
To tell you the truth, I never knew there was such a sub-culture, including pedal sign-language, that whent into getting a lay in a public loo.
This isn't an issue for me. I don't care if he's gay, although I feel bad he has to hide it. It might be important to his constituents in Idaho though.
I think it might resonante with a few people -- the fact that so many anti-gay politicians are raging hypocrites. Maybe it might start to make the whole train of thought start to ring hollow for them.
Or maybe not. If nothing else, it's good for a laugh and heartening to liberals, and maybe gets us another seat in the Senate. Any of which is worth the happiness and repuation of a hypocritical, intolerant turd who lies and manipulates his constituents and reinforces intolerant thinking as a way to glean power for himself, which he subsequently misuses by being a goddamn Republican.
I've been reading about it over at Towleroad (gay news blog). It's a weird situation. Apparently the senator has been an active opponent of gay rights, while apparently living a closeted existence himself. But I've only really skimmed.
It is when it is a socially conservative Republican congressman.
Rated 100% by the Christian Coalition: a pro-family voting record. (Dec 2003)
YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage: Strongly Opposes topic 3
NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation: Strongly Opposes topic 3
NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation: Opposes topic 3
NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes: Strongly Opposes topic 3
YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage: Strongly Opposes topic 3
How does this do anything but emberass and old man and his family?
This old man is a leader and should expect to get a lot of shit. If he didn't want to be embarrassed, he shouldn't have entered politics.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
If you view the police report (I believe there is a copy over at The Smoking Gun), he did a bit more than that.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
I don't know what he did, but I think it's pretty clear just by how strenuously he objects to it that there was something going on besides emulating Charlie Chaplin.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
He made motions to the cop in the next stall that he wanted to engage in some kind of sexual act.
Proto on
and her knees up on the glove compartment
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
I know.
I tap my foot when I get impatient, for crying out loud. Would of never thought such an act is a proposal for bathroom trysts.
I think he did more than that; didn't he give the guy his card or something to show off?
People care because he spent his entire political career demonizing and discriminating against the gay community. He's a hypocrite... which is fine, because most people are, but then, most people aren't casting deciding votes on whether or not tying Matthew Shepard to a fence post and leaving him to die should be considered a hate crime.
Fuck him. I hope his career goes down in flames, leaving him a bitter, broken old man.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
People care because he spent his entire political career demonizing and discriminating against the gay community. He's a hypocrite... which is fine, because most people are, but then, most people aren't casting deciding votes on whether or not tying Matthew Shepard to a fence post and leaving him to die should be considered a hate crime.
Fuck him. I hope his career goes down in flames, leaving him a bitter, broken old man.
I don't want to derail this thread, but I think that's kind of a bad example. You can be for equal rights and still think hate crime laws are a bad idea.
Not that that applies to Larry "I'M NOT GAY GODDAMMIT" Craig, mind.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
I know.
I tap my foot when I get impatient, for crying out loud. Would of never thought such an act is a proposal for bathroom trysts.
I think he did more than that; didn't he give the guy his card or something to show off?
People care because he spent his entire political career demonizing and discriminating against the gay community. He's a hypocrite... which is fine, because most people are, but then, most people aren't casting deciding votes on whether or not tying Matthew Shepard to a fence post and leaving him to die should be considered a hate crime.
Fuck him. I hope his career goes down in flames, leaving him a bitter, broken old man.
I don't want to derail this thread, but I think that's kind of a bad example. You can be for equal rights and still think hate crime laws are a bad idea.
Not that that applies to Larry "I'M NOT GAY GODDAMMIT" Craig, mind.
Agreed..ish... and that's fine... but when you couple that with a career of bigotry complete with a matching voting record, I argue it paints a fairly accurate picture.
For more information about hate crimes, see the Intolerance thread, or your local library.
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
That's what therepy is for, not Congress.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
He made motions to the cop in the next stall that he wanted to engage in some kind of sexual act.
There is a common scene for cruising for anonymous homosexual sex in public bathrooms.
This bathroom had been ID'd as a source of gay cruising, and cops decided to run an undercover sting operation. In the end he is only guilty of attempting to proposition a man for anonymous gay sex in an airport. The fact that he pled guilty to "lewd conduct" despite only engaging in a series of rather unknown and exclusive signaling between himself and the cop seems to indicate that he clearly is involved in the gay cruising sub-culture, whether he add anonymous sex on this occasion or not.
Couple this with his conservative voting record, and we have a textbook closet-case and thorny tangle of sexuality issues in the US Congress.
Exactly. It isn't like the cop was a rookie and Craig was actually making the international sign for choking... he knew what he was doing, the cop knew what he was doing, he pleaded guilty...
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
I'm uncomfortable, to some extent, with the outing of even vociferously anti-gay individuals. Sexual orientation is a private matter, and I think a natural defense mechanism when society shuns your sexual orientation is to denounce that orientation even more loudly than those around you. I've definitely seen it in people who later come out; often they're the loudest and most hateful of anyone.
But the fact is, Craig's not just some douche you can just turn your back on. He's one of 100 people setting policy in the most powerful chamber of the legislative branch. If he's able to mold American law to be more intolerant and discriminatory towards a group of people that he secretly belongs to--well then I don't have much problem with that same group saying, "oh by the way, Craig's with us." They need to look out for themselves. It's not like anyone else is.
It's not like this is a new accusation coming towards Craig, either. And the straw that broke the camel's back here wasn't a male prostitute, or some gay lover--it was a police sting operation. It's hard for me to look at this and feel terribly sorry for Craig. Maybe someday he'll come to terms with what he is and be ashamed of the policies he's advocated and then I can feel bad for him.
tl;dr: I really don't care if he's outed as long as he's being a hateful douche imbued with legislative power.
I'm still not clear on exactly what he did? Tapped his foot? These articles could be a little more clear. Or explicit. If he did something just say it, don't beat around the bush.
I know.
I tap my foot when I get impatient, for crying out loud. Would of never thought such an act is a proposal for bathroom trysts.
I think he did more than that; didn't he give the guy his card or something to show off?
Also, isn't a congressperson supposed to represent more than just his own opinion? Even if he disagrees, isn't it his responsibility to represent what his constituents want affected? Put the actual topic - homosexuality - aside for a moment (obviously I think it's stupid to push for anti-gay legislation regardless of whether or not he just wanted it or everyone he represented wanted it).
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
There is a world of difference between a reformed junkie and one who gets up railing against drugs with a hypodermic needle sticking out of his arm.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
Are you seriously suggesting that sucking cock is as addictive as snorting coke?
Also, isn't a congressperson supposed to represent more than just his own opinion? Even if he disagrees, isn't it his responsibility to represent what his constituents want affected? Put the actual topic - homosexuality - aside for a moment (obviously I think it's stupid to push for anti-gay legislation regardless of whether or not he just wanted it or everyone he represented wanted it).
If he wants to remain in office, sure. But America's a democratic republic, not a true democracy. As such, it allows for leaders with a vision and morality that differs from their constituency. We have been very well served at times by leaders who viewed the world different from the populace at large. Furthermore, American law should protect against the tyranny of the majority, which gay marriage and equal rights for gay couples always falls victim to.
[edit] And my avatar has become unexpectedly appropriate!
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
Are you seriously suggesting that sucking cock is as addictive as snorting coke?
Yes. Sucking cock gets at least 6 :^:s, whereas snorting coke sounds awful.
This is the article I read, which does a good job of both explaining the details of the arrest and giving some idea why the cops were running a sting on that specific location. They weren't targeting the Senator, he just got rolled up in an operation meant to deter this specific cruising spot.
Does seem a bit like entrapment to me, but then Ace went and pled guilty, and either way dude is out of the closet now and is going to have to deal with it.
This is the article I read, which does a good job of both explaining the details of the arrest and giving some idea why the cops were running a sting on that specific location. They weren't targeting the Senator, he just got rolled up in an operation meant to deter this specific cruising spot.
Does seem a bit like entrapment to me, but then Ace went and pled guilty, and either way dude is out of the closet now and is going to have to deal with it.
That is not entrapment... the cop was just sitting there... it also wouldn't be entrapment if Craig had just whipped it out and stuck it under the stall door.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
"I was able to see Craig's blue eyes as he looked into my stall."
What are the odds of a sting going on at that airport, does this type of thing happen often in bathrooms?
It happens a lot. While the participants are sometimes openly gay men, more often, the participants are closeted gay men, who are married, or deeply in denial about their sexuality. Mens rooms are semi-private, and full of men with their pants down. They figure it's as good a place as any, I suppose.
There was a lot of this sort of thing happening at my old gym. There were the occasional crack downs, and even a few arrests, but it didn't seem to deter people.
Personally, I'm conflicted on the issue of this kind of sexual activity. If two consenting adults want to get off with each other, it's really no one else's business. But if they are doing it in public, then, yeah, kind of a bad thing.
Also, isn't a congressperson supposed to represent more than just his own opinion?
This is a somewhat more complex political question than you might think. Some politicians and political scientists hold that it's the representative's duty to vote in ways their constituency would, regardless of their personal opinion. Others hold that the public has chosen that person to make decisions and values their judgment, and thus that they should vote as they see fit, regardless of what the voters would choose.
In practice, most politicians reach somewhere in the middle.
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
You'd be better using a correct analogy as drugs are a choice and sexuality is not. Try again with something like race and it comes off as hypocritical every time.
Proto on
and her knees up on the glove compartment
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
Counterpoint to all of this: is it really hypocrisy to publicly rail against something you are? What if you secretly hate what you are?
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
Are you seriously suggesting that sucking cock is as addictive as snorting coke?
Yes. Sucking cock gets at least 6 :^:s, whereas snorting coke sounds awful.
Posts
http://www.slate.com/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801664_pf.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/329436_gopwoes29.html
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RARUI80&show_article=1
Or maybe not. If nothing else, it's good for a laugh and heartening to liberals, and maybe gets us another seat in the Senate. Any of which is worth the happiness and repuation of a hypocritical, intolerant turd who lies and manipulates his constituents and reinforces intolerant thinking as a way to glean power for himself, which he subsequently misuses by being a goddamn Republican.
Sure, he was caught sucking dick in the Olive Garden bathroom, or whatever, but HE'S NOT GAY!
He loves his wife and kids, proving HE'S NOT GAY!
He loves the great state of Idaho, and that also somehow proves HE'S NOT GAY!
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/usa/idaho.jpg
It looks sort of like a dong.
I don't know what he did, but I think it's pretty clear just by how strenuously he objects to it that there was something going on besides emulating Charlie Chaplin.
He made motions to the cop in the next stall that he wanted to engage in some kind of sexual act.
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
I know.
I tap my foot when I get impatient, for crying out loud. Would of never thought such an act is a proposal for bathroom trysts.
I think he did more than that; didn't he give the guy his card or something to show off?
Margaret Thatcher
Fuck him. I hope his career goes down in flames, leaving him a bitter, broken old man.
I don't want to derail this thread, but I think that's kind of a bad example. You can be for equal rights and still think hate crime laws are a bad idea.
Not that that applies to Larry "I'M NOT GAY GODDAMMIT" Craig, mind.
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/craig_police_report_082807.pdf
This is the report.
Agreed..ish... and that's fine... but when you couple that with a career of bigotry complete with a matching voting record, I argue it paints a fairly accurate picture.
For more information about hate crimes, see the Intolerance thread, or your local library.
That's what therepy is for, not Congress.
He apparently doesn't hate it enough not to solicit anonymous gay sex in a public restroom.
They are lucky he didn't kick the fucking door off the hinges and scream "FREEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOM!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottaging
This bathroom had been ID'd as a source of gay cruising, and cops decided to run an undercover sting operation. In the end he is only guilty of attempting to proposition a man for anonymous gay sex in an airport. The fact that he pled guilty to "lewd conduct" despite only engaging in a series of rather unknown and exclusive signaling between himself and the cop seems to indicate that he clearly is involved in the gay cruising sub-culture, whether he add anonymous sex on this occasion or not.
Couple this with his conservative voting record, and we have a textbook closet-case and thorny tangle of sexuality issues in the US Congress.
Gay shit happens.
^ puns intended
Seriously, though, I mean...I dunno. I see this two ways. On one hand I suppose hypocrisy is doing what you say you hate doing. On the other hand, if a drug junkee gets up and starts bashing drugs because he genuinely HATES them including his own drug abus, is that bad?
Note: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homosexuality, so maybe this is an unfair/incorrect analogy and tangential. I'm just trying to get at the crux of what constitutes hypocrisy. Personally, I'd say that trying to legislate anti-gay stuff is bad enough. The fact that he is gay doesn't really affect my opinion one way or the other.
But the fact is, Craig's not just some douche you can just turn your back on. He's one of 100 people setting policy in the most powerful chamber of the legislative branch. If he's able to mold American law to be more intolerant and discriminatory towards a group of people that he secretly belongs to--well then I don't have much problem with that same group saying, "oh by the way, Craig's with us." They need to look out for themselves. It's not like anyone else is.
It's not like this is a new accusation coming towards Craig, either. And the straw that broke the camel's back here wasn't a male prostitute, or some gay lover--it was a police sting operation. It's hard for me to look at this and feel terribly sorry for Craig. Maybe someday he'll come to terms with what he is and be ashamed of the policies he's advocated and then I can feel bad for him.
tl;dr: I really don't care if he's outed as long as he's being a hateful douche imbued with legislative power.
What are the odds of a sting going on at that airport, does this type of thing happen often in bathrooms?
Ick.
Imagine being the cop who got stuck with this duty. Who did he piss off? O_o
Margaret Thatcher
In England it's called "cottaging". In America, it's called "To Cheap To Go To Motel 6".
There is a world of difference between a reformed junkie and one who gets up railing against drugs with a hypodermic needle sticking out of his arm.
If he wants to remain in office, sure. But America's a democratic republic, not a true democracy. As such, it allows for leaders with a vision and morality that differs from their constituency. We have been very well served at times by leaders who viewed the world different from the populace at large. Furthermore, American law should protect against the tyranny of the majority, which gay marriage and equal rights for gay couples always falls victim to.
[edit] And my avatar has become unexpectedly appropriate!
Yes. Sucking cock gets at least 6 :^:s, whereas snorting coke sounds awful.
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/1_1/breakingnews/19763-1.html
Does seem a bit like entrapment to me, but then Ace went and pled guilty, and either way dude is out of the closet now and is going to have to deal with it.
That is not entrapment... the cop was just sitting there... it also wouldn't be entrapment if Craig had just whipped it out and stuck it under the stall door.
There was a lot of this sort of thing happening at my old gym. There were the occasional crack downs, and even a few arrests, but it didn't seem to deter people.
Personally, I'm conflicted on the issue of this kind of sexual activity. If two consenting adults want to get off with each other, it's really no one else's business. But if they are doing it in public, then, yeah, kind of a bad thing.
This is a somewhat more complex political question than you might think. Some politicians and political scientists hold that it's the representative's duty to vote in ways their constituency would, regardless of their personal opinion. Others hold that the public has chosen that person to make decisions and values their judgment, and thus that they should vote as they see fit, regardless of what the voters would choose.
In practice, most politicians reach somewhere in the middle.
You'd be better using a correct analogy as drugs are a choice and sexuality is not. Try again with something like race and it comes off as hypocritical every time.
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
Evidently, you have never snorted coke.
They were running the investigation specifically because they had heard reports/complaints of sexual solicitation there.