It makes me worry about what the average Japanese gamers life is like when the tedium of their games seems pleasurable in contrast to the tedium of their very lives.
That said, Nintendo typically does a good job of making games that aren't overly long or tedious and that have solid controls. It's just sad that you can't let your friends see you playing Wind Waker or Pikmin, and I'm still referring to my Wii as "The New Nintendo" in the presence of non-gaming company.
We [Americans] can differentiate the good and the bad because we just have a stronger cultural connection to games that are made here. We can tell the AAA titles from the wannabe AAA titles from the B titles.
Wow.
I can't help but raise an eyebrow at a lot of the generalizations in this thread.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
Also, why do a lot of women in Japanese games have HUGE boobs?
I think that in America it would seem that characters persevere through force of will, but in Japan characters become more powerful through force of will and thus persevere.
That's my take.
You are going to explain this since the only difference I see is the Japanese characters getting more powerful...
Yes it seems like a subtle difference, but when you think about it it becomes quite a divergence:
The American characters emphasize being the "everyman". That character is a normal person pushed to do extraordinary things but they remain fundamentally the same person. They don't change anything about themselves other than mentality. The basic idea is that every person can accomplish anything they set their minds to without being particularly special.
In Japanese culture on the otherhand the character start out as special, but not knowing it. They are told they are not and eventually push themselves due to circumstance (and to show others the truth of their specialness) to unlock their latent power. They fundamentally change their abilities (not their mentality) which is what causes them to overcome all obstacles.
You see, so the "power" difference leads to a big overall difference in character development.
It makes me worry about what the average Japanese gamers life is like when the tedium of their games seems pleasurable in contrast to the tedium of their very lives.
That said, Nintendo typically does a good job of making games that aren't overly long or tedious and that have solid controls. It's just sad that you can't let your friends see you playing Wind Waker or Pikmin, and I'm still referring to my Wii as "The New Nintendo" in the presence of non-gaming company.
We [Americans] can differentiate the good and the bad because we just have a stronger cultural connection to games that are made here. We can tell the AAA titles from the wannabe AAA titles from the B titles.
Wow.
I can't help but raise an eyebrow at a lot of the generalizations in this thread.
Wow, it's easier for Americans to tell which American titles are good, that is shocking
The giant green chariot-riding penis would like to agree with you.
This is a society that idolizes a man named Hard Gay who terrorizes children. I don't think the presence or the absence of a penis is particularly indicative of anything.
The giant green chariot-riding penis would like to agree with you.
This is a society that idolizes a man named Hard Gay who terrorizes children. I don't think the presence or the absence of a penis is particularly indicative of anything.
i think the use of the word "idolize" is misleading here. hard gay is a television comedian. and he isnt even popular.
it's like saying americans idolize that racist kramer.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Funny you should say that, because I've noticed a lot of Japanese games being very heavy on the subtext, to the point where american translations either don't cut it or probably go too far to make it obvious. The argument we had in the Persona 3 thread about the meaning of the ending comes to mind. Vast room for interpretation there.
I guess it might be the fault of the translators, but I dunno. On almost every game I've worked on, there has been absolutely no remarkable subtext, or setup/payoff relationship, or anything professional storytelling should have. The same was true for the first part of Odin Sphere (never finished it) and Persona 3 has waaay too many 'let me tell you exactly how I feel' moments, though I haven't reached the ending just yet.
In the case of Odin Sphere, it was pretty much a simple fairy tale storyline and that's why I love it. I don't think there's much need to subtly present anything because of its intended type of storyline.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
I don't know how you could finish Odin Sphere. I got to Chapter 5 and just went 'Fuck it'. Boring as all hell.
Funny you should say that, because I've noticed a lot of Japanese games being very heavy on the subtext, to the point where american translations either don't cut it or probably go too far to make it obvious. The argument we had in the Persona 3 thread about the meaning of the ending comes to mind. Vast room for interpretation there.
I guess it might be the fault of the translators, but I dunno. On almost every game I've worked on, there has been absolutely no remarkable subtext, or setup/payoff relationship, or anything professional storytelling should have. The same was true for the first part of Odin Sphere (never finished it) and Persona 3 has waaay too many 'let me tell you exactly how I feel' moments, though I haven't reached the ending just yet.
In the case of Odin Sphere, it was pretty much a simple fairy tale storyline and that's why I love it. I don't think there's much need to subtly present anything because of its intended type of storyline.
What would you say about a game like Psychonauts or Grim Fandango?
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited September 2007
I dunno, I assumed the inverse, too: it's easier for the Japanese to tell which Japanese titles are quality as opposed to me trying to figure out which Japanese titles are quality ( I would have no idea. )
I dunno, I assumed the inverse, too: it's easier for the Japanese to tell which Japanese titles are quality as opposed to me trying to figure out which Japanese titles are quality ( I would have no idea. )
So...so you're saying you don't know what's a better game between Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry?
I dunno, I assumed the inverse, too: it's easier for the Japanese to tell which Japanese titles are quality as opposed to me trying to figure out which Japanese titles are quality ( I would have no idea. )
So...so you're saying you don't know what's a better game between Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry?
Or Zelda and Dark Cloud?
Or Panzer Dragoon Orta and Rez?
on and on and on.
I couldn't tell you at all, because the only game(s) on that list I've played are Zelda titles.
None of the others interest me at all with the exception of Rez, but I don't have a console that I could play it on.
I shed a tear for all the Japanese gamers that will never play Half-Life 2, Company of Heroes, Deus Ex, and Quake Wars. If you compiled a list of great Western games never released in Japan and another list of great Japan-only games, I'd bet the former outnumbers the latter ten to one.
I dunno, I assumed the inverse, too: it's easier for the Japanese to tell which Japanese titles are quality as opposed to me trying to figure out which Japanese titles are quality ( I would have no idea. )
So...so you're saying you don't know what's a better game between Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry?
Or Zelda and Dark Cloud?
Or Panzer Dragoon Orta and Rez?
on and on and on.
I couldn't tell you at all, because the only game(s) on that list I've played are Zelda titles.
None of the others interest me at all with the exception of Rez, but I don't have a console that I could play it on.
I shed a tear for all the Japanese gamers that will never play Half-Life 2, Company of Heroes, Deus Ex, and Quake Wars. If you compiled a list of great Western games never released in Japan and another list of great Japan-only games, I'd bet the former outnumbers the latter ten to one.
Well, the Japanese did get BG II, so its all good.
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
I dunno, I assumed the inverse, too: it's easier for the Japanese to tell which Japanese titles are quality as opposed to me trying to figure out which Japanese titles are quality ( I would have no idea. )
So...so you're saying you don't know what's a better game between Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry?
Or Zelda and Dark Cloud?
Or Panzer Dragoon Orta and Rez?
on and on and on.
I couldn't tell you at all, because the only game(s) on that list I've played are Zelda titles.
None of the others interest me at all with the exception of Rez, but I don't have a console that I could play it on.
I recommend the Xbox 360.
I don't have four hundred dollars just laying around.
I shed a tear for all the Japanese gamers that will never play Half-Life 2, Company of Heroes, Deus Ex, and Quake Wars. If you compiled a list of great Western games never released in Japan and another list of great Japan-only games, I'd bet the former outnumbers the latter ten to one.
Well, the Japanese did get BG II, so its all good.
I shed a tear for all the Japanese gamers that will never play Half-Life 2, Company of Heroes, Deus Ex, and Quake Wars. If you compiled a list of great Western games never released in Japan and another list of great Japan-only games, I'd bet the former outnumbers the latter ten to one.
Why do you imagine they weren't released in Japan?
I shed a tear for all the Japanese gamers that will never play Half-Life 2, Company of Heroes, Deus Ex, and Quake Wars. If you compiled a list of great Western games never released in Japan and another list of great Japan-only games, I'd bet the former outnumbers the latter ten to one.
Well, the Japanese did get BG II, so its all good.
Funny you should say that, because I've noticed a lot of Japanese games being very heavy on the subtext, to the point where american translations either don't cut it or probably go too far to make it obvious. The argument we had in the Persona 3 thread about the meaning of the ending comes to mind. Vast room for interpretation there.
I guess it might be the fault of the translators, but I dunno. On almost every game I've worked on, there has been absolutely no remarkable subtext, or setup/payoff relationship, or anything professional storytelling should have. The same was true for the first part of Odin Sphere (never finished it) and Persona 3 has waaay too many 'let me tell you exactly how I feel' moments, though I haven't reached the ending just yet.
In the case of Odin Sphere, it was pretty much a simple fairy tale storyline and that's why I love it. I don't think there's much need to subtly present anything because of its intended type of storyline.
What would you say about a game like Psychonauts or Grim Fandango?
I sadly haven't yet played those games. Travesty I know. However my post prior was mostly for just the context of Odin Sphere, the way it was done just felt right to me.
One thing however I think is more important than subtext would be pretext. In the case of let's say Shadow Hearts, relationships between characters are moving so seemingly fast without really much happening at all. When this happens, everything just feels awkward and forced.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
Except that there are a lot of Japanese adventure games. There is no fully western or fully Japanese genre unless you get extremely specific.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
Except that there are a lot of Japanese adventure games. There is no fully western or fully Japanese genre unless you get extremely specific.
Wasn't the Neverhood surprisingly popular over the pond?
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
Except that there are a lot of Japanese adventure games. There is no fully western or fully Japanese genre unless you get extremely specific.
Wasn't the Neverhood surprisingly popular over the pond?
It was popular enough in Japan to get a shitty spinoff and a Japanese only Playstation version of the game.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
The games you named are great, but they're ooooold. Did you know (I had to look it up) Sam and Max came out in 1993? The hight point of adveture game design... is older than some posters in this thread. God.
For presentation of story, and generally having more cohesive, compelling plots, what about the Lucasarts adventures? Full Throttle? Day of the Tentacle? The Dig? Sam and Max?
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
The games you named are great, but they're ooooold. Did you know (I had to look it up) Sam and Max came out in 1993? The hight point of adveture game design... is older than some posters in this thread. God.
You could say the same thing about RPGs. A lot of people will point out a bunch of old SNES games as examples of great RPG games.
Posts
i was thinking that and maybe shadow hearts as the possible exceptions.
otherwise, i really cant think of any.
Oh, please.
I'm stunned by your insecurity, but OK.
Wow.
I can't help but raise an eyebrow at a lot of the generalizations in this thread.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Yes it seems like a subtle difference, but when you think about it it becomes quite a divergence:
The American characters emphasize being the "everyman". That character is a normal person pushed to do extraordinary things but they remain fundamentally the same person. They don't change anything about themselves other than mentality. The basic idea is that every person can accomplish anything they set their minds to without being particularly special.
In Japanese culture on the otherhand the character start out as special, but not knowing it. They are told they are not and eventually push themselves due to circumstance (and to show others the truth of their specialness) to unlock their latent power. They fundamentally change their abilities (not their mentality) which is what causes them to overcome all obstacles.
You see, so the "power" difference leads to a big overall difference in character development.
Wow, it's easier for Americans to tell which American titles are good, that is shocking
What a terrible cruel generalization
Why do a lot of women in all forms of media in all countries have HUGE boobs?
This is a society that idolizes a man named Hard Gay who terrorizes children. I don't think the presence or the absence of a penis is particularly indicative of anything.
i think the use of the word "idolize" is misleading here. hard gay is a television comedian. and he isnt even popular.
it's like saying americans idolize that racist kramer.
Huge as in size E. Or X in Japanese cup sizes.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
hard gay is AWESOME
he's not even gay. he's married to a woman.
and he hasnt been on tv for like a year or something.
In the case of Odin Sphere, it was pretty much a simple fairy tale storyline and that's why I love it. I don't think there's much need to subtly present anything because of its intended type of storyline.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
What would you say about a game like Psychonauts or Grim Fandango?
So...so you're saying you don't know what's a better game between Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry?
Or Zelda and Dark Cloud?
Or Panzer Dragoon Orta and Rez?
on and on and on.
I couldn't tell you at all, because the only game(s) on that list I've played are Zelda titles.
None of the others interest me at all with the exception of Rez, but I don't have a console that I could play it on.
I recommend the Xbox 360.
Well, the Japanese did get BG II, so its all good.
I don't have four hundred dollars just laying around.
Why does this make me laugh.
The Japanese got all of the above.
Well, I'm not certain about Quake Wars, but I know they got the other three. How's that outnumbering coming?
Why do you imagine they weren't released in Japan?
According to Gamefaqs and Mobygames, Deus Ex wasn't released in Japan. Same with Company of Heroes.
I sadly haven't yet played those games. Travesty I know. However my post prior was mostly for just the context of Odin Sphere, the way it was done just felt right to me.
One thing however I think is more important than subtext would be pretext. In the case of let's say Shadow Hearts, relationships between characters are moving so seemingly fast without really much happening at all. When this happens, everything just feels awkward and forced.
They've been dead for ten years, man. Their zombified corpse might wheel out a new product every now and then, but it's not fooling anybody.
I think they're still pretty good examples of fully western games.
Except that there are a lot of Japanese adventure games. There is no fully western or fully Japanese genre unless you get extremely specific.
Wasn't the Neverhood surprisingly popular over the pond?
It was popular enough in Japan to get a shitty spinoff and a Japanese only Playstation version of the game.
The games you named are great, but they're ooooold. Did you know (I had to look it up) Sam and Max came out in 1993? The hight point of adveture game design... is older than some posters in this thread. God.
A series that also hit its high point in 1992....
Old game is old.
You could say the same thing about RPGs. A lot of people will point out a bunch of old SNES games as examples of great RPG games.
Chrono Trigger and FF6 are good games, but generally you'll get newer games, like Torment, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.
Of course, RPGs are quickly becoming a dead genre, too, thanks to the horrors of MMOs.