What was have had is "the extreme underdog who no way in Hell should be able to get through this adventure because he is by all standards a Mama's boy". Is that one as big in Eastern stories?
That's pretty much your standard jRPG main protagonist, so yes.
I'd argue that. The whole individualist vs collectivist societal pressures manifest in literature as two very different extremes. The west gives us the Rambos and the James Bonds and whatnot... very much the unique snowflakes of one man against the world variety... and the east, even with the Son Gokus and Clouds and whatnot, there's always more of an emphasis on relying on your companions and friends. I mean, hell, Goku's big signature attack requires the entire planet to help him, and multiple Final Fantasies go through sequences where your hero is stumbling around like a twit and needs all his friends to snap him out of his daze. Hell, Final Fantasy 4/2 pulled people back from the dead to give you peptalks for the last boss. Compare this to all the big popular western story driven RPGs like Torment, Fallout, or the BGs, and you're almost always stripped of your party members near the end and at least temporarily go into the belly of the whale alone.
Neither is really better perse, but there very much is a very distinct difference in general between the eastern and western characterizations.
In Torment, the whole point of taking your party members away was to emphasize how much you need them. In Fallout, leaving your party behind was one option of many. Baldur's Gate was just a terrible game so I don't know or care what happened in the ending - maybe you're right about that one. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough though, so try again.
What was have had is "the extreme underdog who no way in Hell should be able to get through this adventure because he is by all standards a Mama's boy". Is that one as big in Eastern stories?
That's pretty much your standard jRPG main protagonist, so yes.
I'd argue that. The whole individualist vs collectivist societal pressures manifest in literature as two very different extremes. The west gives us the Rambos and the James Bonds and whatnot... very much the unique snowflakes of one man against the world variety... and the east, even with the Son Gokus and Clouds and whatnot, there's always more of an emphasis on relying on your companions and friends. I mean, hell, Goku's big signature attack requires the entire planet to help him, and multiple Final Fantasies go through sequences where your hero is stumbling around like a twit and needs all his friends to snap him out of his daze. Hell, Final Fantasy 4/2 pulled people back from the dead to give you peptalks for the last boss. Compare this to all the big popular western story driven RPGs like Torment, Fallout, or the BGs, and you're almost always stripped of your party members near the end and at least temporarily go into the belly of the whale alone.
Neither is really better perse, but there very much is a very distinct difference in general between the eastern and western characterizations.
In Torment, the whole point of taking your party members away was to emphasize how much you need them. In Fallout, leaving your party behind was one option of many. Baldur's Gate was just a terrible game so I don't know or care what happened in the ending - maybe you're right about that one. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough though, so try again.
What was have had is "the extreme underdog who no way in Hell should be able to get through this adventure because he is by all standards a Mama's boy". Is that one as big in Eastern stories?
That's pretty much your standard jRPG main protagonist, so yes.
I'd argue that. The whole individualist vs collectivist societal pressures manifest in literature as two very different extremes. The west gives us the Rambos and the James Bonds and whatnot... very much the unique snowflakes of one man against the world variety... and the east, even with the Son Gokus and Clouds and whatnot, there's always more of an emphasis on relying on your companions and friends. I mean, hell, Goku's big signature attack requires the entire planet to help him, and multiple Final Fantasies go through sequences where your hero is stumbling around like a twit and needs all his friends to snap him out of his daze. Hell, Final Fantasy 4/2 pulled people back from the dead to give you peptalks for the last boss. Compare this to all the big popular western story driven RPGs like Torment, Fallout, or the BGs, and you're almost always stripped of your party members near the end and at least temporarily go into the belly of the whale alone.
Neither is really better perse, but there very much is a very distinct difference in general between the eastern and western characterizations.
In Torment, the whole point of taking your party members away was to emphasize how much you need them. In Fallout, leaving your party behind was one option of many. Baldur's Gate was just a terrible game so I don't know or care what happened in the ending - maybe you're right about that one. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough though, so try again.
Uh... the 'good' ending to Torment had
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
And it's the same with the KoTORs... so, really... you maybe... MAYBE have an argument with Fallout... but that's it. And even that is negligible by the fact that your entire party are just window dressing. Aside from the Vault City guards, nobody gives a shit about any of them in the world. They may as well not exist for all the dramatic impact they have on the world.
KOTOR had a lot of character side-quests that I enjoyed. And it's pretty much impossible to solo the last few levels of the game in KOTOR without a party.
What was have had is "the extreme underdog who no way in Hell should be able to get through this adventure because he is by all standards a Mama's boy". Is that one as big in Eastern stories?
That's pretty much your standard jRPG main protagonist, so yes.
I'd argue that. The whole individualist vs collectivist societal pressures manifest in literature as two very different extremes. The west gives us the Rambos and the James Bonds and whatnot... very much the unique snowflakes of one man against the world variety... and the east, even with the Son Gokus and Clouds and whatnot, there's always more of an emphasis on relying on your companions and friends. I mean, hell, Goku's big signature attack requires the entire planet to help him, and multiple Final Fantasies go through sequences where your hero is stumbling around like a twit and needs all his friends to snap him out of his daze. Hell, Final Fantasy 4/2 pulled people back from the dead to give you peptalks for the last boss. Compare this to all the big popular western story driven RPGs like Torment, Fallout, or the BGs, and you're almost always stripped of your party members near the end and at least temporarily go into the belly of the whale alone.
Neither is really better perse, but there very much is a very distinct difference in general between the eastern and western characterizations.
In Torment, the whole point of taking your party members away was to emphasize how much you need them. In Fallout, leaving your party behind was one option of many. Baldur's Gate was just a terrible game so I don't know or care what happened in the ending - maybe you're right about that one. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough though, so try again.
Uh... the 'good' ending to Torment had
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
And it's the same with the KoTORs... so, really... you maybe... MAYBE have an argument with Fallout... but that's it. And even that is negligible by the fact that your entire party are just window dressing. Aside from the Vault City guards, nobody gives a shit about any of them in the world. They may as well not exist for all the dramatic impact they have on the world.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
This is incorrect.
He lets you revive one and only one (notwithstanding Morte playing dead), at which point YOU give them a peptalk about the time of reckoning being at hand or whatever. Vhailor and Dak'kon even power up from your peptalk.
The Wizardry games, especially the later ones, have always been pretty good at story telling. Maybe Ash should try Wizardry 6/7/8, then learn to hate those in new and creative ways!
Wizardry is also the only American franchise I can think of that's more popular in Japan than in America. It's the lone counterpart to all the Metroids, Okami, SotC, Castlevania, etc., that're more popular outside Japan.
I think that's partly because there was this time period where Japanese games were going to the west with no counterpart Western games going to Japan, so a lot of Western gamers began to appreciate Japanese game design because that was pretty much all they had.
That doesn't explain why they're so much more popular outside Japan than in it, though.
Final Fantasy, Pokemon and Biohazard/Resident Evil are popular in the West, but they're still popular in Japan too. I mean, if any game seemed to be made for a Japanese audience, it was Okami. Yet no one in Japan seemed to care.
I'm not wondering why Japanese games are popular in the West, but why so many of them are so much more popular in the West than at home. It's kinda like how Akira Kurosawa is much more popular in the West than in Japan. What is the West seeing in those games that the Japanese aren't - just as the French see something in Jerry Lewis' comedy that no one else seems to.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I'll happily take the "androgynous" male hero (I've never had a problem knowing what sex they were) over the he-man western hero any day. They just seem to skimp so much on personality and replace it with an even worse stereotypical personality then the Japanese ever used. Angry, horny, silent, vengeful, yawn yawn yawn.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
What was that one Korean game? Magna Carta? Yeah, all the weaboos (heehee, new word!) I know were fapping all over the place about it, but when I criticized the unnecessarily andogynous - and I thought Tidus was adequately masculine - lead and the terrible gameplay, they said that I was just ignorant and closed off to other cultures.
Fuck that shit, the sidekick chick had A-bombs strapped to her fucking chest.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Oh hell yes. But he's too quiet. Man needs a voice.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
This is incorrect.
He lets you revive one and only one (notwithstanding Morte playing dead), at which point YOU give them a peptalk about the time of reckoning being at hand or whatever. Vhailor and Dak'kon even power up from your peptalk.
There's a different, better, ending besides that even.
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
You, sir, did not get the 'good' ending.
Do tell what the better ending was then. This should be good.
There are only two endings. Merge with your Mortality or kill it. In the first, you revive all your allies and then go off to atone for your crimes. In the other, you stop existing. Well, you can also kill/unmake yourself, but that doesn't really do much of anything aside from give you a game over screen.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
What was that one Korean game? Magna Carta? Yeah, all the weaboos (heehee, new word!) I know were fapping all over the place about it, but when I criticized the unnecessarily andogynous - and I thought Tidus was adequately masculine - lead and the terrible gameplay, they said that I was just ignorant and closed off to other cultures.
Fuck that shit, the sidekick chick had A-bombs strapped to her fucking chest.
Magna Carta characters were just fucking bizzare. The tits were huge and the guys' outfits were just WEIRD. I wouldn't even call them effeminate, they were just....
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
This is incorrect.
He lets you revive one and only one (notwithstanding Morte playing dead), at which point YOU give them a peptalk about the time of reckoning being at hand or whatever. Vhailor and Dak'kon even power up from your peptalk.
See Dracomicron's comment.
He let me revive all of them, and they were the ones giving the peptalks.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
He was working as a janitor? Did we play different Half-Lifes? He was a scientist, a theoretical physicist. He was playing an integral part in the experiment that went wrong. Someone had to put the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
He was working as a janitor? Did we play different Half-Lifes? He was a scientist, a theoretical physicist. He was playing an integral part in the experiment that went wrong. Someone had to put the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer.
Yeah, I didn't think he was a janitor either. I wouldn't have liked him if they'd done the old "working class tough guy becomes hero" route.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Thus fitting nicely in the stereotype.
Yes, because the main characters from the FF games always had loads to say and threw themselves at their female party members.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Thus fitting nicely in the stereotype.
Yes, because the main characters from the FF games always had loads to say and threw themselves at their female party members.
O_o
There are other Japanese games besides Final Fantasy 7. And Zidane in FF9 talked a blue streak and was always coming onto the princess.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
He was working as a janitor? Did we play different Half-Lifes? He was a scientist, a theoretical physicist. He was playing an integral part in the experiment that went wrong. Someone had to put the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer.
I could swear in the opening to the first one it mentioned that his position was basically a janitor.
Wait, yeah, research assistant. I don't know where I got it that he was a janitor, but whatever, we've all got to start somewhere.
Sidenote: Who else thought Yuri from the Shadowhearts series was not your typical JRPG hero? That series (especially the second game) will always stand out in my mind as the JRPG with the best dialogue.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Thus fitting nicely in the stereotype.
Yes, because the main characters from the FF games always had loads to say and threw themselves at their female party members.
O_o
Well, I think they did, but even if they didn't, one game does not set the standard for an entire stereotype.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
This is incorrect.
He lets you revive one and only one (notwithstanding Morte playing dead), at which point YOU give them a peptalk about the time of reckoning being at hand or whatever. Vhailor and Dak'kon even power up from your peptalk.
See Dracomicron's comment.
He let me revive all of them, and they were the ones giving the peptalks.
Then you're remembering wrong. I'm not sure how else to put it, but you're flat out wrong here.
The only way to revive your whole party before fighting the Transcendent One is to flip some switch right before you teleport to the area with your Incarnations, giving you the opportunity to trick him into going off and checking it out for long enough for you to revive them all.
Late, but just to be clear I was talking about the 'looks just like a girl but is really a guy because the devs say so and there's really no good reason to even do that in the first place'. I'm fine with, say, a lead male who isn't 300 pounds of solid muscle or whatever. Those guys are pretty lame too, honestly. Gears of War is probably the best/worst example of this overwrought machismo in games.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
That's because Gordon is the fucking man. Free...man.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
He was working as a janitor? Did we play different Half-Lifes? He was a scientist, a theoretical physicist. He was playing an integral part in the experiment that went wrong. Someone had to put the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer.
Yeah, I didn't think he was a janitor either. I wouldn't have liked him if they'd done the old "working class tough guy becomes hero" route.
Observation of Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Entanglement on Supraquantum Structures by Induction Through Nonlinear Transuranic Crystal of Extremely Long Wavelength (ELW) Pulse from Mode-Locked Source Array (the teleportation of matter through extremely dense elements)
that was gordon's thesis
eventually, he became disappointed with the slow pace of teleportation research in academia and began to search for a job outside the education sector. By coincidence, Freeman's MIT mentor Dr. Isaac Kleiner had taken charge of a top secret research project at the Black Mesa Research Facility, and was looking for some associates. Freeman was an obvious choice. He accepted the job offer, hoping that at least part of the immense funding would go towards civilian applications of astrophysics and quantum computing.
The Transcendent One talks about how worthless and pathetic they are, at which point you can convince him to let you revive them. They offer you advice and "emotional support". Or they could help you kill TTO I suppose.
This is incorrect.
He lets you revive one and only one (notwithstanding Morte playing dead), at which point YOU give them a peptalk about the time of reckoning being at hand or whatever. Vhailor and Dak'kon even power up from your peptalk.
See Dracomicron's comment.
He let me revive all of them, and they were the ones giving the peptalks.
I find that one of the biggest gaps in Western vs Japanese game design philosophy lies on the form of Storytelling, and character development.
As much as I dislike GoW's story due to it's claustrophobic nature and limited perspective (With almost no backstory), where it really exceeds is as a character drama. Not a ground breaking piece of work, or as a profound statement, but simply as the story of 4 men in a FUBAR op trying to save the day and get out Alive. Dom is the cheerful contrast to Phoenix, streetwise, smart, he's "your buddy", and serves as a Contrast to Marcus through the game. Baird represents the cynicism of War, the frustration and strain, and how we all can still be hero's when things are looking grim. Cole serves as a middleground between the two, with the least amount of character development. They're important to understanding the nature of the conflict, and the people, what's happened.
Personalities helping put the world into context. I find that to be a stark contrast to most traditional Japanese titles, as the player is given a larger grasp of the world, more knowledge, generally sooner. There is less confusion, with plot being used to foreward the game, and to drive the player to yearn for more. To understand.
I'm not saying GoW is the peak of storytelling, or even neccessarily a good example. These are just some things I've picked up on.
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
You, sir, did not get the 'good' ending.
Do tell what the better ending was then. This should be good.
There are only two endings. Merge with your Mortality or kill it. In the first, you revive all your allies and then go off to atone for your crimes. In the other, you stop existing. Well, you can also kill/unmake yourself, but that doesn't really do much of anything aside from give you a game over screen.
Uh... you've just disproven your point. The party is an integral part of the game if you care about them, and in the good ending that you discuss, you get closure on their stories, your party being an important motivator for you and not insignificant at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding here. If you play through without a party, you won't be tempted by that option.
I also seem to recall there were a few intermediary ends, but it's been almost ten years... The thing with Planescape is that the entire last level of the game is your "ending," and what you do during that level is less important than why you do it. Since nobody will ever sing songs of your valor, and nobody who is living will ever know that they've been saved from your curse, all that matters is what you do, alone in that dark place. I know I'm riffing Babylon 5 here, but I don't care.
you merge with your Mortality while the rest of your party was dead... and if I'm remembering correctly, they never even came up in the conversation between you and the Transcendent One. Hell, the only time you even bothered to do anything with your party in the Torment end sequence was if you decided to kill him.
You, sir, did not get the 'good' ending.
Do tell what the better ending was then. This should be good.
There are only two endings. Merge with your Mortality or kill it. In the first, you revive all your allies and then go off to atone for your crimes. In the other, you stop existing. Well, you can also kill/unmake yourself, but that doesn't really do much of anything aside from give you a game over screen.
Uh... you've just disproven your point. The party is an integral part of the game if you care about them, and in the good ending that you discuss, you get closure on their stories, your party being an important motivator for you and not insignificant at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding here. If you play through without a party, you won't be tempted by that option.
I also seem to recall there were a few intermediary ends, but it's been almost ten years... The thing with Planescape is that the entire last level of the game is your "ending," and what you do during that level is less important than why you do it. Since nobody will ever sing songs of your valor, and nobody who is living will ever know that they've been saved from your curse, all that matters is what you do, alone in that dark place. I know I'm riffing Babylon 5 here, but I don't care.
/facepalm
"YOU GO OFF TO MEET, CONFRONT, AND TRIUMPH OVER YOUR ULTIMATE FOE ALONE."
That was the original point.
That is what happens.
Hell, if you choose to rely on your allies, you're punished with a 'worse' ending.
What you do after you have gone off to confront and triumph over your evil demonic foe is immaterial and not relevant to FACING HIM AND DEFEATING HIM ALONE. You do not summon a giant spirit ball filled with their thoughts of you. You do not call upon them to give you strength in your darkest hour. You do not ask for their sword, axe, and bow in your fellowship of immortality.
Posts
Ya I mean I sold Sulik into slavery...
Uh... the 'good' ending to Torment had
You, sir, did not get the 'good' ending.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
This is incorrect.
That doesn't explain why they're so much more popular outside Japan than in it, though.
Final Fantasy, Pokemon and Biohazard/Resident Evil are popular in the West, but they're still popular in Japan too. I mean, if any game seemed to be made for a Japanese audience, it was Okami. Yet no one in Japan seemed to care.
I'm not wondering why Japanese games are popular in the West, but why so many of them are so much more popular in the West than at home. It's kinda like how Akira Kurosawa is much more popular in the West than in Japan. What is the West seeing in those games that the Japanese aren't - just as the French see something in Jerry Lewis' comedy that no one else seems to.
I would say he was the ARCHtypical JRPG hero.
I would so take Gordon Freeman over Titus anyday
I'll happily take the "androgynous" male hero (I've never had a problem knowing what sex they were) over the he-man western hero any day. They just seem to skimp so much on personality and replace it with an even worse stereotypical personality then the Japanese ever used. Angry, horny, silent, vengeful, yawn yawn yawn.
What was that one Korean game? Magna Carta? Yeah, all the weaboos (heehee, new word!) I know were fapping all over the place about it, but when I criticized the unnecessarily andogynous - and I thought Tidus was adequately masculine - lead and the terrible gameplay, they said that I was just ignorant and closed off to other cultures.
Fuck that shit, the sidekick chick had A-bombs strapped to her fucking chest.
Oh hell yes. But he's too quiet. Man needs a voice.
Do tell what the better ending was then. This should be good.
Magna Carta characters were just fucking bizzare. The tits were huge and the guys' outfits were just WEIRD. I wouldn't even call them effeminate, they were just....
I liked the gameplay tho.
Yeah, just to be clear, aside from the silent protag approach, Gordon is anything but the stereotypical Western male lead. He's got a degree from MIT and was inexplicably working as a fucking janitor in Black Mesa. It made no sense, but that's beside the point.
But he's so vocal! Whenever some badguy npc gives an eeeevil speech Yuri always has something to say. Plus, he actually voices his lewd thoughts...especially in the original game.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
He was working as a janitor? Did we play different Half-Lifes? He was a scientist, a theoretical physicist. He was playing an integral part in the experiment that went wrong. Someone had to put the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer.
Thus fitting nicely in the stereotype.
Yeah, I didn't think he was a janitor either. I wouldn't have liked him if they'd done the old "working class tough guy becomes hero" route.
Yes, because the main characters from the FF games always had loads to say and threw themselves at their female party members.
O_o
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
There are other Japanese games besides Final Fantasy 7. And Zidane in FF9 talked a blue streak and was always coming onto the princess.
I could swear in the opening to the first one it mentioned that his position was basically a janitor.
Wait, yeah, research assistant. I don't know where I got it that he was a janitor, but whatever, we've all got to start somewhere.
Then you're remembering wrong. I'm not sure how else to put it, but you're flat out wrong here.
And Europeans like sleek cars and just get confused by the whole robot thing.
Observation of Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Entanglement on Supraquantum Structures by Induction Through Nonlinear Transuranic Crystal of Extremely Long Wavelength (ELW) Pulse from Mode-Locked Source Array (the teleportation of matter through extremely dense elements)
that was gordon's thesis
eventually, he became disappointed with the slow pace of teleportation research in academia and began to search for a job outside the education sector. By coincidence, Freeman's MIT mentor Dr. Isaac Kleiner had taken charge of a top secret research project at the Black Mesa Research Facility, and was looking for some associates. Freeman was an obvious choice. He accepted the job offer, hoping that at least part of the immense funding would go towards civilian applications of astrophysics and quantum computing.
and we know what happened from there
As much as I dislike GoW's story due to it's claustrophobic nature and limited perspective (With almost no backstory), where it really exceeds is as a character drama. Not a ground breaking piece of work, or as a profound statement, but simply as the story of 4 men in a FUBAR op trying to save the day and get out Alive. Dom is the cheerful contrast to Phoenix, streetwise, smart, he's "your buddy", and serves as a Contrast to Marcus through the game. Baird represents the cynicism of War, the frustration and strain, and how we all can still be hero's when things are looking grim. Cole serves as a middleground between the two, with the least amount of character development. They're important to understanding the nature of the conflict, and the people, what's happened.
Personalities helping put the world into context. I find that to be a stark contrast to most traditional Japanese titles, as the player is given a larger grasp of the world, more knowledge, generally sooner. There is less confusion, with plot being used to foreward the game, and to drive the player to yearn for more. To understand.
I'm not saying GoW is the peak of storytelling, or even neccessarily a good example. These are just some things I've picked up on.
Uh... you've just disproven your point. The party is an integral part of the game if you care about them, and in the good ending that you discuss, you get closure on their stories, your party being an important motivator for you and not insignificant at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding here. If you play through without a party, you won't be tempted by that option.
The good ending to torment is when you
/facepalm
"YOU GO OFF TO MEET, CONFRONT, AND TRIUMPH OVER YOUR ULTIMATE FOE ALONE."
That was the original point.
That is what happens.
Hell, if you choose to rely on your allies, you're punished with a 'worse' ending.
What you do after you have gone off to confront and triumph over your evil demonic foe is immaterial and not relevant to FACING HIM AND DEFEATING HIM ALONE. You do not summon a giant spirit ball filled with their thoughts of you. You do not call upon them to give you strength in your darkest hour. You do not ask for their sword, axe, and bow in your fellowship of immortality.
Sheesh.
So why are there British adverts for French cars where they turn into robots?