I think Japanese culture is superior to anything Western Civilization has ever done.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if Japan would invade the U.S, if it meant I could get my hands on anime easier...
Juuuuuuuuuust in case you aren't kidding, I might point you to a copy of Paradise Lost.
And seriously, as far as graphic novels go, America doesn't do so bad, but we don't have as much volume to bring to the table, so of course the Law of Averages is against a large quantity of good American graphic fiction being produced.
As far as vidyagames goes, people look back on games like Chrono Trigger as paragons of storytelling and yadda yadda yadda. But even an RPG behemoth like CT can't even touch a hair on a real work of literature's metaphorical head. You just can't compare
frog refusing to fight magus with Achilleus opting out of the siege of Ilion in terms of depth and complexity and that story is 3000 years old!
.
Perhaps CT is a bad example though, as I carry the firm belief the team responsible could have produced a work of well, actual literature combined with an amazing gameplay system had they not been limited to 4 megabites on 16 bit hardware, or however large those carts were.
I guess it's easy to have awesome stories when your games are stories first and games second?
That's pretty much it.
A collection of storyboards is not a fucking videogame.
One thing I've always found interesting is that many people complain about JRPGs is their linear nature, when it's more of an emphasis on telling a specific story, rather than immersion. Is there something wrong with telling a story in that manner?
Well the linearity in JRPGS extends beyond the plot to the gameplay. This is the main complaint. Most Western RPGS also have an incredibly linear story, even ones that promote 'choice' still end up exactly the same more or less, such as kotors or fables.
I think that a lot of that has been the limit of the technology (random battles etc[yes, I know Chrono Trigger lol]) and it seems as if the genre is finally moving away from that.
I can only imagine that this is some sort of attempt to communicate Bioshock or Torment as a literary masterpiece. If such is a case, then I highly suggest picking up Ever17 so you can see about where the baseline is for the popular stuff... and Ever17 wasn't even particularly noteworthy in Japan (popular, but not notably so) as far as v.novels go. It's only uphill from there.
Based on your avatar and sig, I think it'll be easier for us to just assume you have terrible taste.
I'm sorry, did you actually have an educated response? Maybe something pointing out how the games I listed as vastly superior are somehow worse? Or are you just as you appear, an irritating little troll?
I think Japanese culture is superior to anything Western Civilization has ever done.
Personally, I wouldn't mind if Japan would invade the U.S, if it meant I could get my hands on anime easier...
The fact that I can't be certain about the fact that you're joking is one of the most tragic things ever.
It's true, all forms of Japanese media are superior. Their animated films are certainly the most important think to happen, culturally this century.
Fucking bakas.....
...
. . .
What? I'd like you to show me something that matches their skillful combination of art and eroticism.
Something like X-Change is as good as, if not better than any shitty Bergman film that Western culture shits out...
My cock, my precious thing, its gone!
The chances that Suttbecks is being at all serious here is like -12000000000000000000000000000000000
I dunno. He is pretty retarded. He could be totally serious. I know a lot of people who are sharing his opinions every day. Opinions like that are common on the internet.
Richmond Lattimore was the preeminent translator in the 20th century. I go by his translations, as (apparently) they are more accurate. Also, last I checked Robert Fitzgerald used the same spellings. Ergo, I am justified in my choice of spellings for Achilleus and Ilion. And Hektor lulz.
I can only imagine that this is some sort of attempt to communicate Bioshock or Torment as a literary masterpiece. If such is a case, then I highly suggest picking up Ever17 so you can see about where the baseline is for the popular stuff... and Ever17 wasn't even particularly noteworthy in Japan (popular, but not notably so) as far as v.novels go. It's only uphill from there.
Based on your avatar and sig, I think it'll be easier for us to just assume you have terrible taste.
I'm sorry, did you actually have an educated response? Maybe something pointing out how the games I listed as vastly superior are somehow worse? Or are you just as you appear, an irritating little troll?
The problem, Aroduc, is that your premise is only correct if you are specifically talking about the "storyboard" games. Because these other games in shared genres - like RPGs, Strategy and War titles, and so on - do not have "vastly superior" writing to American- or European-made games.
And that premise would not be correct anyway because those Japanese storyboard games are not games.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
I have a question that kind of fits into the subject of this thread:
Why isn't there a Mario Baseball game?
Both America and Japan like baseball, so I'm not sure why they havent tried one yet.
The only thing I can think of is that its not really popular really anywhere else than Japan and America.
Thoughts?
They have made a Mario Picross game so the popularity of a game outside of Japan isn't a problem for Nintendo. I am going to assume that they just haven't gotten around to it.
Couscous on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
'ey yo, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much. That's why I made the thread. But it's gone a completely different and terrible direction since then.
I have a question that kind of fits into the subject of this thread:
Why isn't there a Mario Baseball game?
Both America and Japan like baseball, so I'm not sure why they havent tried one yet.
The only thing I can think of is that its not really popular really anywhere else than Japan and America.
Thoughts?
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
Nobody attacking them, you just came in here shouting your japanophile nonsense and people kind of disagreed.
I have a question that kind of fits into the subject of this thread:
Why isn't there a Mario Baseball game?
Both America and Japan like baseball, so I'm not sure why they havent tried one yet.
The only thing I can think of is that its not really popular really anywhere else than Japan and America.
Thoughts?
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
I don't know. Nobody else has lit the Pedantman signal yet. For now I'm just polishing my Pedantarangs and rereading the dictionary.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far.
You put their writing up there against Western games. I contested both that they are games and that even if we agreed - for arguments sake - that they are, that they do not succeed the writing quality in American- or European created titles.
Therefore, I take offense to your implication that I am not a person.
EDIT:
with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
Well, what can we say, Aroduc? You started your post off with the equivalent of "olol and don't say Planescape: Torment or Bioshock! They aren't as good!"
At that point, there's no room to discuss anything with you. You obviously have some very weird (read: bad) opinions on what constitutes good and bad writing quality. Since Planescape: Torment is basically as literary as you can get in a video game and you decided to brush even that example aside with your initial posts, there's not much to discuss. You have your opinion, and we have a much better opinion.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
See: Pretty much every fucking adventure game.
See also: The shitload of IF games being made and released on the Internet.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
why dont you describe the stories for us who don't understand japanese
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
Because we're not all obsessive, and definitely aren't going to go learn Japanese to determine our stance on these games.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
See: Pretty much every fucking adventure game.
See also: The shitload of IF games being made and released on the Internet.
They can't be as good. They aren't from Japan. Idiot.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
why dont you describe the stories for us who don't understand japanese
The fact that you don't know japanese is a testament to self centered fat lazy world-hating Americans. Sheesh, come on
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
"Tucker... what the fuck are you babbling about?"
Maybe I'm just an ignorant American, but you seem to be saying that these Japanese...game...things have far superior writing to anything America has produced?
He has a t-shirt that just has a picture of Japan on it
You're half right.
(That's me in the middle)
I got this shirt when I went to Japan with my girl friend, Noriko. Of course when we got back she left me for some baka. Probably some mouth-breathing frat boy who only plays games like Halo 2.
The big difference though is that the writing for the V.Novels and hybrids tends to be abso-fucking-lutely amazing compared to almost anything the US has crapped out in the last decade.
w
w
w
what
you didn't
gah
I can only imagine that this is some sort of attempt to communicate Bioshock or Torment as a literary masterpiece. If such is a case, then I highly suggest picking up Ever17 so you can see about where the baseline is for the popular stuff... and Ever17 wasn't even particularly noteworthy in Japan (popular, but not notably so) as far as v.novels go. It's only uphill from there.
Torment was much, much better-written than Tsukihime.
He has a t-shirt that just has a picture of Japan on it
You're half right.
(That's me in the middle)
I got this shirt when I went to Japan with my girl friend, Noriko. Of course when we got back she left me for some baka. Probably some mouth-breathing frat boy who only plays games like Halo 2.
Tell you what. Tsukihime, ONE, Planetarian, Wind, Gadget Trial, and Ever17 are all fully translated and easily purchased. Pick one. Play it. Then we'll have something to argue aside from you guys just assuming things suck because you can't be bothered to find out for yourself.
The big difference though is that the writing for the V.Novels and hybrids tends to be abso-fucking-lutely amazing compared to almost anything the US has crapped out in the last decade.
w
w
w
what
you didn't
gah
I can only imagine that this is some sort of attempt to communicate Bioshock or Torment as a literary masterpiece. If such is a case, then I highly suggest picking up Ever17 so you can see about where the baseline is for the popular stuff... and Ever17 wasn't even particularly noteworthy in Japan (popular, but not notably so) as far as v.novels go. It's only uphill from there.
Torment was much, much better-written than Tsukihime.
I'll agree with that. I also didn't find tsukihime all that godly. It was okay.
* hey, maybe this thread will contain an interesting discussion of differences in design styles *
Oh god my eyes it's full of stupid.
Seriously, I don't know shit about 'visual novels', but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt rather than shit-posting the thread to death out of denial.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
Or she left you because you are fat. Just sayin'.
I don't believe one bit of the "Japanese games are superior" stuff that's often floating around on the Internet.
It's not that "Japanese games are always better" it is actually "Sometimes Japanese games in specific genres are better than their American counterparts" and "Sometimes American games are better than Japanese games in specific genres".
No game is better than another because it came out of a specific country.
Don't forget though that some genres were INVENTED in a specific country or are just the most successful/loved genres in that country, so it's not really hard to see that local developers might be more focused on these genres and may have more experience in them, since that's what they try to make their money with.
Posts
Ham-beast.
Americans are fat.
I know you did it already I had the idea better though. They are on an Island so like fish, that's how it works not chicken you god-damned fool.
Juuuuuuuuuust in case you aren't kidding, I might point you to a copy of Paradise Lost.
And seriously, as far as graphic novels go, America doesn't do so bad, but we don't have as much volume to bring to the table, so of course the Law of Averages is against a large quantity of good American graphic fiction being produced.
As far as vidyagames goes, people look back on games like Chrono Trigger as paragons of storytelling and yadda yadda yadda. But even an RPG behemoth like CT can't even touch a hair on a real work of literature's metaphorical head. You just can't compare
Perhaps CT is a bad example though, as I carry the firm belief the team responsible could have produced a work of well, actual literature combined with an amazing gameplay system had they not been limited to 4 megabites on 16 bit hardware, or however large those carts were.
EDIT: Plus, MARATHON.
Edit. It's Achilles. And Illian.
My cock, my precious thing, its gone!
I'm sorry, did you actually have an educated response? Maybe something pointing out how the games I listed as vastly superior are somehow worse? Or are you just as you appear, an irritating little troll?
In which case we return to the hybrid argument where we note that there are more than enough examples of games attched to your "collection of storyboards."
He has a t-shirt that just has a picture of Japan on it
I dunno. He is pretty retarded. He could be totally serious. I know a lot of people who are sharing his opinions every day. Opinions like that are common on the internet.
Richmond Lattimore was the preeminent translator in the 20th century. I go by his translations, as (apparently) they are more accurate. Also, last I checked Robert Fitzgerald used the same spellings. Ergo, I am justified in my choice of spellings for Achilleus and Ilion. And Hektor lulz.
The problem, Aroduc, is that your premise is only correct if you are specifically talking about the "storyboard" games. Because these other games in shared genres - like RPGs, Strategy and War titles, and so on - do not have "vastly superior" writing to American- or European-made games.
And that premise would not be correct anyway because those Japanese storyboard games are not games.
Therefore your points are completely without merit or validity.
Okay, then the OP is incorrect and the Japanese dating sims/visual novels aren't actually games and you all have been vehemently attacking them for no reason. What next, pedant?
Why isn't there a Mario Baseball game?
Both America and Japan like baseball, so I'm not sure why they havent tried one yet.
The only thing I can think of is that its not really popular really anywhere else than Japan and America.
Thoughts?
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
To be fair, those games have only been attacked because you put them up on a pedestal (....of cocks, am I doing that right?) above Western games.
'ey yo, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much. That's why I made the thread. But it's gone a completely different and terrible direction since then.
They did. It's called mario baseball on the GC.
That's the last time I camwhore, I tell you what.
Nobody attacking them, you just came in here shouting your japanophile nonsense and people kind of disagreed.
*scratches head*
a) Baseball is fairly popular in Japan, as far as I know.
b) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Superstar_Baseball
c)
I don't know. Nobody else has lit the Pedantman signal yet. For now I'm just polishing my Pedantarangs and rereading the dictionary.
No, I put their writing up there. Where it belongs. I haven't seen a single person actually contest that so far with anything other than "zomg, you are so wrong, but I can't be bothered to offer an argument."
You put their writing up there against Western games. I contested both that they are games and that even if we agreed - for arguments sake - that they are, that they do not succeed the writing quality in American- or European created titles.
Therefore, I take offense to your implication that I am not a person.
EDIT:
Well, what can we say, Aroduc? You started your post off with the equivalent of "olol and don't say Planescape: Torment or Bioshock! They aren't as good!"
At that point, there's no room to discuss anything with you. You obviously have some very weird (read: bad) opinions on what constitutes good and bad writing quality. Since Planescape: Torment is basically as literary as you can get in a video game and you decided to brush even that example aside with your initial posts, there's not much to discuss. You have your opinion, and we have a much better opinion.
See: Pretty much every fucking adventure game.
See also: The shitload of IF games being made and released on the Internet.
why dont you describe the stories for us who don't understand japanese
Because we're not all obsessive, and definitely aren't going to go learn Japanese to determine our stance on these games.
They can't be as good. They aren't from Japan. Idiot.
The fact that you don't know japanese is a testament to self centered fat lazy world-hating Americans. Sheesh, come on
"Tucker... what the fuck are you babbling about?"
Maybe I'm just an ignorant American, but you seem to be saying that these Japanese...game...things have far superior writing to anything America has produced?
You're half right.
(That's me in the middle)
I got this shirt when I went to Japan with my girl friend, Noriko. Of course when we got back she left me for some baka. Probably some mouth-breathing frat boy who only plays games like Halo 2.
*~ReQuIeM fOr NoRiKo~*....
shut the fuck up.
what was this thread about, again?
I heard she was dating me now.
I'll agree with that. I also didn't find tsukihime all that godly. It was okay.
Oh god my eyes it's full of stupid.
Seriously, I don't know shit about 'visual novels', but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt rather than shit-posting the thread to death out of denial.
I don't believe one bit of the "Japanese games are superior" stuff that's often floating around on the Internet.
It's not that "Japanese games are always better" it is actually "Sometimes Japanese games in specific genres are better than their American counterparts" and "Sometimes American games are better than Japanese games in specific genres".
No game is better than another because it came out of a specific country.
Don't forget though that some genres were INVENTED in a specific country or are just the most successful/loved genres in that country, so it's not really hard to see that local developers might be more focused on these genres and may have more experience in them, since that's what they try to make their money with.